Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Varta

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

I do, seemingly others don't, and that is after 20 years service and no gap in the service time.

Apologies, I replied to the wrong poster.

Bannasidhe

Augeo wrote: »

What loan are you on about.....3rd level is effectively free
Quantify in monetary terms what loans do nurse graduates have to pay back?

€3,000 per year 'student contribution' is not the same as effectively free - it's a charge.
If you already have an undergrad degree full fees apply.

As far as I am aware, apart from HDip, there are no 'free' (ie only registration fees apply) post-grad courses - but I have been out of education a while so I may be wrong - if so, the cheapest post-grad course in the general field of medicine is €3,800 - I imagine knowing how Irish universities work this is a one year certificate qualification.

Textbooks etc still need to be purchased because the libraries are so chronically underfunded that there are simply not enough textbooks available.

I am not actually in favour of free 3rd level education as I encountered too many 'wasters' in my years working in 3rd level ( I no longer work in education as between the cuts, vacant teaching posts, overcrowding etc etc it became impossible to work to the standard I set myself) and I would be in favour of a system where those who can pay - do pay - but to say 3rd level education is effectively free is complete nonsense.

Varta

Varta wrote: »

I am self-employed. I get no holiday pay, sick pay, etc. It's my choice and I enjoy the freedom it gives me. It has nothing to do with the nurses' pay claim.

I'm not a nurse bud....I was replying to a question I was asked.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

€3,000 per year 'student contribution' is not the same as effectively free - it's a charge.
If ......

No students borrow that from banks with 3 or 4 year degrees payments.

RinusLaptop76

Augeo wrote: »

No students borrow that from banks with 3 or 4 year degrees payments.

You know that how?

Bannasidhe

Augeo wrote: »

No students borrow that from banks with 3 or 4 year degrees payments.

There is absolutely no way you can make that statement as there is absolutely no way you know the financial background of each and every student or the costs they incur during their education or the methods they use to fund that education.


You said 3rd level education is effectively free. It patiently is not.

feckthisgenie

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

well a moment ago I was told that my friend was lying about nurses not taking bloods, until someone else (who seems to know a thing or two about this) clarified that it is an issue.

I'm not saying I was told that nurses will down tools when the clock strikes five pm, I assume practically all of them will finish the job at hand. But my understanding is, they don't go to the lengths that some doctors do, staying at work as long as two or three hours after their shifts end. Now, this is part of being a doctor, certainly, but some of the doctors I'm thinking of are on lower pay than their nursing colleagues.

Just to be clear, this is not an indictment of nurses, I'm just saying that a lot of healthcare professionals have it a lot worse. I'm thinking especially of NCHDs and healthcare assistants.

This thing about nurses not taking blood in the mater or Beaumont I cant comment as I never worked there.
No all nurses can take blood or do that I correct. Maybe that doctor encountered a particular nurse or nurses that didn't.
I know nurses qualified 20 years that dont take blood and I know nurses qualified 4 years that do. It's an extra component of training (course) nurses may choose to do and other dont.
I would find it hard to believe that not 1 nurse takes blood in mentioned hospitals

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Augeo wrote: »

No students borrow that from banks with 3 or 4 year degrees payments.

Many do indeed. There's the annual contribution plus the cost of accommodation to be paid by many.

brendanwalsh

The fianna fail rats are trying to get one up on Leo.

This is a bit off-topic, but one partial solution to the shortage of nurses and other healthcare professionals might be to formally reintroduce third-level fees, and using the income to subsidise students of medicine, nursing, etc.

As things stand, 'free fees' operates as a cash transfer to middle class households, who use that money to provide private education or tuition for their children before they apply to university or college.

I think we ought to be limiting publicly financed university programmes to high-priority students, and maybe also consider a clause whereby the student has to work for a certain number of years in the Irish system, or else they pay for their education like everybody else.

Such an initiative would go down like a lead balloon with the unions, of course, but would probably be supported by the universities and other third-level institutions.

feckthisgenie

thomasdylan wrote: »

First you said interns don't make decisions (which is untrue and a fairly insulting thing to say), now you're saying most decisions they make a prompted by nurses? You don't bring one group up by putting another one down.

Obviously intern year is a very sharp learning experience and nurses do give loads of advice to interns particularly in the first six months, I certainly appreciated that myself back then (and still sometimes do). But an intern will make lots of small decisions every day (like reviewing a CXR to see if an NG is in place) and often big ones on call when reviewing sick patients. As experienced as a nurse is they usually won't examine those patients lungs or heart and abdomen, they won't do and interpret the ABG (usually) or interpret the CXR which are all what you need to do when reviewing a patient in the scenario I talked about.

That other poster was making out like they are senior decision makers , spoon feed in the first year. They run most things past people above them.
She also said it was what she was "told" no first hand experience at all.
Remember 2013 when a doctor in portlaoise was let go when it was noticed he was reading x rays upside down Google it.

brendanwalsh

Nurses are being paid to do phlebotomy and cannulation.

A large portion of them don't do these tasks, often as a matter of choice,why bother up training to add more work to your already busy shifts, just say you aren't certified and let the doctor do it.

As a knock on, doctors are doing menial jobs beneath them and then becoming disillusioned and emigrating, it's a vicious cycle.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is absolutely no way you can make that statement as there is absolutely no way you know the financial background of each and every student or the costs they incur during their education or the methods they use to fund that education.


You said 3rd level education is effectively free. It patiently is not.

What Irish banks lend money to students with 3 or 4 year deferred payments?

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

What Irish banks lend money to students with 3 or 4 year deferred payments?

those were the terms of my student loan back in the day, albeit during the celtic tiger.

Chiparus

Augeo wrote: »

No students borrow that from banks with 3 or 4 year degrees payments.

https://www.ul.ie/gems/sites/all/themes/Porto/img/TailoredFinancialPackageforStudentsofGEMS.pdf

feckthisgenie

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Nurses are being paid to do phlebotomy and cannulation.

A large portion of them don't do these tasks, often as a matter of choice,why bother up training to add more work to your already busy shifts, just say you aren't certified and let the doctor do it.

As a knock on, doctors are doing menial jobs beneath them and then becoming disillusioned and emigrating, it's a vicious cycle.

I agree in what your saying and that's the attitude of a lot of nurses.
Most hospitals have phlebotomist that do the majority of the cannulating anyway

Chiparus

Augeo wrote: »

What Irish banks lend money to students with 3 or 4 year deferred payments?

https://aib.ie/our-products/loans/education-loans?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpeeV77Kx4AIVi8qyCh0TLgwoEAAYAyAAEgJVIfD_BwE

David73

I've just seen a woman dressed as a nurse begging on Grafton street and the public were handing her fivers, twenties, etc. She had a good bundle of cash.

Meanwhile a 3 minute walk later I saw a woman and child in tattered clothes that looked gaunt with hunger begging, and everyone was walking past them.

What does this tell us about our society?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Augeo wrote: »

What Irish banks lend money to students with 3 or 4 year deferred payments?

https://aib.ie/our-products/loans/education-loans
https://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/borrow/loans/student-loans/
https://www.creditunion.ie/what-we-offer/loans/student/


Not sure regarding referred payments options but all banks offer loans to students for college fees and costs.

Bannasidhe

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

This is a bit off-topic, but one partial solution to the shortage of nurses and other healthcare professionals might be to formally reintroduce third-level fees, and using the income to subsidise students of medicine, nursing, etc.

As things stand, 'free fees' operates as a cash transfer to middle class households, who use that money to provide private education or tuition for their children before they apply to university or college.

I think we ought to be limiting publicly financed university programmes to high-priority students, and maybe also consider a clause whereby the student has to work for a certain number of years in the Irish system, or else they pay for their education like everybody else.

Such an initiative would go down like a lead balloon with the unions, of course, but would probably be supported by the universities and other third-level institutions.

I have long been in favour of a system where disciplines deemed essential (medicine and teaching, for example) you can either pay full fees and be free to go work where you like or get a genuinely free education in return for a commitment to work within the Irish public system for an agreed amount of years.

I seem to recall someone telling me years ago that the air corps brought in such a system when it came to pilot training to combat the tendency of pilots to leave to go to commercial airlines shortly after getting their licences.

'Non' essential subjects should have a proper system in place to fund those who genuinely need/deserve it and the rest pay fees - perhaps on a sliding scale. It's crazy that people who can afford private tuition/grind schools pay the same amount as those who are struggling but just over the threshold to qualify for their 'student contribution' to be paid.

Chiparus

https://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/borrow/loans/student-loans/

RinusLaptop76

Chiparus wrote: »

https://www.ul.ie/gems/sites/all/themes/Porto/img/TailoredFinancialPackageforStudentsofGEMS.pdf

That is not what Augeo wants to know

RinusLaptop76

David73 wrote: »

I've just seen a woman dressed as a nurse begging on Grafton street and the public were handing her fivers, twenties, etc. She had a good bundle of cash.

Meanwhile a 3 minute walk later I saw a woman and child in tattered clothes that looked gaunt with hunger begging, and everyone was walking past them.

What does this tell us about our society?

Did you make a picture?

David73

David73 wrote: »

I've just seen a woman dressed as a nurse begging on Grafton street and the public were handing her fivers, twenties, etc. She had a good bundle of cash.

Meanwhile a 3 minute walk later I saw a woman and child in tattered clothes that looked gaunt with hunger begging, and everyone was walking past them.

What does this tell us about our society?

This is very bad!

David73

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

Did you make a picture?

That would have been very rude.

It was at 2.15pm today

Chiparus

Chiparus wrote: »

https://aib.ie/our-products/loans/education-loans?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpeeV77Kx4AIVi8qyCh0TLgwoEAAYAyAAEgJVIfD_BwE

Samantha Icy Rubbish wrote: »

https://aib.ie/our-products/loans/education-loans
https://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/borrow/loans/student-loans/
https://www.creditunion.ie/what-we-offer/loans/student/


Not sure regarding referred payments options but all banks offer loans to students for college fees and costs.

Someone was claiming nurses come out of college with loans to pay back for their college fees etc.

As there are no deferred payment products in Ireland for students. Thats not true.

n!ghtmancometh

David73 wrote: »

I've just seen a woman dressed as a nurse begging on Grafton street and the public were handing her fivers, twenties, etc. She had a good bundle of cash.

Meanwhile a 3 minute walk later I saw a woman and child in tattered clothes that looked gaunt with hunger begging, and everyone was walking past them.

What does this tell us about our society?

My bollocks you did.

Tells us you are a waffler, unless you have some proof.

RinusLaptop76

David73 wrote: »

That would have been very rude.

It was at 2.15pm today

Joined this month, only active on this thread, and bashing is also rude. Smells like trolling to me.

David73

David73 wrote: »

I've just seen a woman dressed as a nurse begging on Grafton street and the public were handing her fivers, twenties, etc. She had a good bundle of cash.

Meanwhile a 3 minute walk later I saw a woman and child in tattered clothes that looked gaunt with hunger begging, and everyone was walking past them.

What does this tell us about our society?

I live just off Grafton Street, I must walk up and down the street a dozen times most days, and I've never seen the person you're referring to - I reckon I would recognise most people begging on that street and areas around it.

Maybe it's her first day, but I smell BS here.

Nonoperational

feckthisgenie wrote: »

Same as that, I wouldn't let a intern near me to cannulate. The amount of time I have seen nurses call even registrars to review sick patient and make recommendations and the registrars brush it off with the nurse going over their heads and ringing the consultant who agrees with the nurse and the registrar gets a talking to. This is usually very experienced staff nurses who have seen this type of thing over and over again.
People who dont work in health won't know this.

There seems to be some sort of perception on this thread that phlebotomy and cannulation are difficult tasks. They are some of the most basic clinical skills, and most interns are perfectly competent at them after a few months. I have looked after many many patients and I've never heard one refuse an intern to cannulate them. Really poor thing to do to someone beginning their career.

As for nurses phoning consultants and then registrars getting a "talking to". I'm a senior specialist registrar and this has never once happened to me. I've never heard it happen to any of my friends or colleagues. I'm sure it is necessary at times, but it absolutely is not common amongst good SpRs and registrars. The "junior doctor" title really can give a misleading impression of what SpRs/Registrars do and how they operate.

I'll take my leave of this thread now because it is really becoming so far removed from real life that it is not worth correcting. I think nurses are essential to a well functioning health system and I get on fantastically well with the majority I work with. They do an important job, and so do doctors. I think trying to justify the pay claim by implying they are some sort of overseers of hapless junior doctors is unfair.