Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Bannasidhe · 10-02-2019 4:50pm

Augeo wrote: »

Your SECOND degree.... your first was effectively free.
Most nurses do nursing immediately after the leaving cert.

Actually it wasn't.

I am so old that I had to pay for my first degree too.

You really are fond of making these bold statements of pseudo facts without actually doing any research. 'Free' 3rd level didn't come in until the 1990s. By then I was working away, paying my mortgage and taxes like a good little contributor to society.

I left 'free' education at the age of 7 - in 1971- when I was transferred by my parents to a non-denominational private school - which means it got zero money from the State. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Not as much as the price of a pencil never mind a teacher's salary.

So I have benefited from the grand total 3 years and 1 month of free education in my entire life - all before the age of seven and long before many commentating here were born.
I have in the 38 years I have been in some form of paid employment contributed an eye watering amount of tax - a lot of it in the higher brackets (the 80s in particular were a fun time) so I reckon I have more than covered the State's investment in my education.

And still support the nurses.

iebamm2580 · 10-02-2019 4:50pm

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

Read back. This had to do with someone claiming nursing students have no student loans and their education is for free. I claimed that there are nursing students with loans and their study is not for free.

Ok thats fair enough, i wont read back, i will take you at your word, but you see my point thats its not only nursing students who have loans so making that point is redundant in relation to this strike.

RinusLaptop76 · 10-02-2019 4:51pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Ok fair enough if it has, but that argument about loans and not being able to afford to live in Ireland on 40k(low estimate) salary are ridiculous to make.

A newly graduated nurse does not earn 40k, starts at about 24k, read back, there is a link for that, and I read up on it as well. Then pay back your loan and cost of living now, not so affordable as you say.

David73 · 10-02-2019 4:52pm

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

Last one, that is not what I see, and since you don't come up with concrete evidence either why should I? There are loads of students in my circle of friends, nursing and otherwise, not a single one has a car loan, or even an old car. So you were indeed very lucky to have a car, including the fecking high insurance premium that comes with it.

And you saying more likely loans are car loans, concrete evidence?

Again happy trolling/bashing David73

You really don't like your views being challenged do you Rinus?

You immediately insult and bully anyone like a big fire breathing dragon.

Can you show me the number of students in financial student debt?

It is clear that nurses have a greater income potential than most undergraduates in terms of training. Phramacists and teachers don't get a penny for their work experience yet they must scrape together travel expenses and must pay for expensice resourses for their work experience. The HSE not only pay student nurses in Year 4, while they may also be getting a grant, the HSE also pay travel, uniform expenses to student nurses. No other undergraduate get these lucrative incentives! And for you to say they have big student laons is a joke!

RinusLaptop76 · 10-02-2019 4:53pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Ok thats fair enough, i wont read back, i will take you at your word, but you see my point thats its not only nursing students who have loans so making that point is redundant in relation to this strike.

I agree completely with you, and I only made that point when someone, Augeo, claimed study is free and no student has a loan.

iebamm2580 · 10-02-2019 4:53pm

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

A newly graduated nurse does not earn 40k, starts at about 24k, read back, there is a link for that, and I read up on it as well. Then pay back your loan and cost of living now, not so affordable as you say.

Plenty of people in the private sector who have student loans start on something similar so your point is simply not valid as to arguing for a pay increase, and you know damn well with allowances its much closer to 30k nurses start on.

Bannasidhe · 10-02-2019 4:55pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Ok thats fair enough, i wont read back, i will take you at your word, but you see my point thats its not only nursing students who have loans so making that point is redundant in relation to this strike.

And that point was made - I know because I made it.

However, we were responding to a claim that 3rd level education is essentially free in Ireland. It isn't.

feckthisgenie · 10-02-2019 4:55pm

wrangler wrote: »

There was similar rubbish in the irish Times three weeks ago, a nurse supposedly broke, more rubbish

No it wasn't, that girl was separated parent of 2 children living on a single wage. Obviously no support from the father

iebamm2580 · 10-02-2019 4:56pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And that point was made - I know because I made it.

However, we were responding to a claim that 3rd level education is essentially free in Ireland. It's isn't.

Well Most of us who went to college know its not free so we can agree on that.

RinusLaptop76 · 10-02-2019 4:56pm

David73 wrote: »

You really don't like your views being challenged do you Rinus?

You immediately insult and bully anyone like a big fire breathing dragon.

Can you show me the number of students in financial student debt?

It is clear that nurses have a greater income potential than most undergraduates in terms of training. Phramacists and teachers don't get a penny for their work experience yet they must scrape together travel expenses and must pay for expensice resourses for their work experience. The HSE not only pay student nurses in Year 4, while they may also be getting a grant, the HSE also pay travel, uniform expenses to student nurses. No other undergraduate get these lucrative incentives! And for you to say they have big student laons is a joke!

I don't mind being challenged at all, but don't ask for concrete numbers if you are not doing it yourself. I am surprised that with your high education your grammar and spelling is sh1t mate.

Come with concrete numbers as well when you challenge others for that, I'd say that is not more then fair.

10-02-2019 4:58pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I left 'free' education at the age of 7 - in 1971- when I was transferred by my parents to a non-denominational private school - which means it got zero money from the State. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Not as much as the price of a pencil never mind a teacher's salary.

Actually this is a bugbear of mine, but since the early days of the State, all private schools at primary and secondary level have received state funding. The purpose for this was to ensure that children from non-Roman Catholic backgrounds had denominational education for their needs, but it applied (and still does apply) to all private schools in the state.

There was talk of ending public funding for private schools at the beginning of the last recession, but I think they only ended up tinkering with staff:student ratios.

I agree with everything else you said, but as I mentioned, this is a little bugbear of mine!

facehugger99 · 10-02-2019 4:59pm

All this bullish:t with ‘allowances’.

It’s typical public service slight of hand to hide the true payments being made.

There needs to be clarity on these and the equivalent pension payments that the private sector are funding, if only so we can see how much of a ride we’re being on.

wrangler · 10-02-2019 5:03pm

feckthisgenie wrote: »

No it wasn't, that girl was separated parent of 2 children living on a single wage. Obviously no support from the father

I know the family, father paying the mortgage, and more, still has to rent a place for himself.....takes the kids four days a fortnight, has a good house rented because of that, it's about a mile from her if the journalist bothered to talk to him....works all the hours god gives to look after little girls. Girl was scandalously used by the cause

David73 · 10-02-2019 5:07pm

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

I don't mind being challenged at all, but don't ask for concrete numbers if you are not doing it yourself. I am surprised that with your high education your grammar and spelling is sh1t mate.

Come with concrete numbers as well when you challenge others for that, I'd say that is not more then fair.

You seem adament that I am in the wrong so go ahead and publish your findings and put me in my place Rinus! I doubt you will.

It's also important to look at the classification of a student loan. Many banks offer 0% overdraft on current account or student credit cards for a period. If a student uses this interest free facility as a method of paying for items online or abroad while they have sufficient cash in their bank account, is this really a student debt?

oh, I mistyped loan, therefore I must be illiterate.
I think you're completely petty Rinus in this whole argument.

Varta · 10-02-2019 5:07pm

David73 wrote: »

Can you stop reacting to my comments, I find your replies insulting and uncomfortable.

I hope you understand.

Thank you!

Now you know how you made everyone else feel, that is, until they copped that you are a troll.

10-02-2019 5:07pm

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

Read back. This had to do with someone claiming nursing students have no student loans and their education is for free. I claimed that there are nursing students with loans and their study is not for free.

Sorry... I never said they have no loans.
4 years of third level is free.
& I'm sure many nursing students get grants for reg fees etc the same as any eligible student on other courses.

David73 · 10-02-2019 5:08pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

All this bullish:t with ‘allowances’.

It’s typical public service slight of hand to hide the true payments being made.

There needs to be clarity on these and the equivalent pension payments that the private sector are funding, if only so we can see how much of a ride we’re being on.

Good point

David73 · 10-02-2019 5:12pm

Varta wrote: »

Now you know how you made everyone else feel, that is, until they copped that you are a troll.

I make valid arguments without insulting anyone.

You insult me in saying I've a mental disorder when you don't like my valid arguments.

Looks like you're the Troll.
Ever get lonely in that box room in your Moms room insulting everyone you keyboard warrior?

feckthisgenie · 10-02-2019 5:14pm

wrangler wrote: »

I know the family, father paying the mortgage, and more, still has to rent a place for himself.....takes the kids four days a fortnight, has a good house rented because of that, it's about a mile from her if the journalist bothered to talk to him....works all the hours god gives to look after little girls. Girl was scandalously used by the cause

I also know the situation and I call bullsh1t on what you say. If the father pays and does all you say then why has there not been uproar on the false reporting?

Bannasidhe · 10-02-2019 5:18pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Actually this is a bugbear of mine, but since the early days of the State, all private schools at primary and secondary level have received state funding. The purpose for this was to ensure that children from non-Roman Catholic backgrounds had denominational education for their needs, but it applied (and still does apply) to all private schools in the state.

There was talk of ending public funding for private schools at the beginning of the last recession, but I think they only ended up tinkering with staff:student ratios.

I agree with everything else you said, but as I mentioned, this is a little bugbear of mine!

I agree but to clarify - only denominational or multi-denominational private schools get State funding. Non-denominational do not. Dept of Education rules.
So to have an education free completely free from religion in any form costs because it isn't subsidised in any way, shape, or form.
My school (since closed) was set up by 7 sisters in the 1920s as a protest against the interference of, primarily, the RCC in girls education but also against the if you are not a Catholic you must be a Protestant mindset. Cork at the time had a decent enough sized Jewish population and even a few Muslims and Hindus - ours was the school for them as well as the atheists.
To avoid State interference, it self funded. We didn't do religion classes - we did civics instead

wrangler · 10-02-2019 5:20pm

feckthisgenie wrote: »

I also know the situation and I call bullsh1t on what you say. If the father pays and does all you say then why has there not been uproar on the false reporting?

Go and visit them when the little girls are with him, they're in absolute luxury, a shocking thing to do to any man when he's doing his best, he'd take the kids all the time in a heartthrob, he pays the mortgage straight in.
Does she still smoke €100/week

Bannasidhe · 10-02-2019 5:21pm

Augeo wrote: »

Sorry... I never said they have no loans.
4 years of third level is free.
& I'm sure many nursing students get grants for reg fees etc the same as any eligible student on other courses.

Aw would you stop.
4 years of 3rd level is 12k in registration fees.
That. is. not. Free.

David73 · 10-02-2019 5:21pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I agree but to clarify - only denominational or multi-denominational private schools get State funding. Non-denominational do not. Dept of Education rules.
So to have an education free completely free from religion in any form costs because it isn't subsidised in any way, shape, or form.
My school (since closed) was set up by 7 sisters in the 1920s as a protest against the interference of, primarily, the RCC in girls education but also against the if you are not a Catholic you must be a Protestant mindset. Cork at the time had a decent enough sized Jewish population and even a few Muslims and Hindus - ours was the school for them as well as the atheists.
To avoid State interference, it self funded. We didn't do religion classes - we did civics instead

Educate together schools do get Government funding.

Bannasidhe · 10-02-2019 5:29pm

David73 wrote: »

Educate together schools do get Government funding.

Educate together schools are multi-denominational not non-denominational.

I made the distinction very clear.

They are multi-denominational schools with non-denominational boards of management - meaning the patrons are not a religious body like the the RCC or COI.

But this thread isn't about that so I'll leave you to get back to complaining about Nursey's.

10-02-2019 5:29pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Aw would you stop.
4 years of 3rd level is 12k in registration fees.
That. is. not. Free.

If the registration fees are borrowed payment won't be deferred for 4 years..... take up your disagreement with free 3rd level with someone else.
It was free when I was there and still is

Sam Quentin · 10-02-2019 5:29pm

I think the nurses will 'stick' it out!? Well if the nurses are in any way like a couple of my friends ex wife's.. they hound them for every penny they can get from them always wanting more,more,more. The guys are not in high paying jobs and don't have a lot anyway,.but that doesn't matter All women want is diamonds and pearls. DIAMONDS and PEARLS lads. :-)))

Bannasidhe · 10-02-2019 5:30pm

Augeo wrote: »

If the registration fees are borrowed payment won't be deferred for 4 years..... take up your disagreement with free 3rd level with someone else.
It was free when I was there and still is

No. It isn't.
It's €3k a year.

Martina1991 · 10-02-2019 5:31pm

RinusLaptop76 wrote:

A newly graduated nurse does not earn 40k, starts at about 24k, read back, there is a link for that, and I read up on it as well. Then pay back your loan and cost of living now, not so affordable as you say.

iebamm2580 wrote:

Plenty of people in the private sector who have student loans start on something similar so your point is simply not valid as to arguing for a pay increase, and you know damn well with allowances its much closer to 30k nurses start on.

The first point on a staff nurse pay scale is 29,345.

wrangler · 10-02-2019 5:33pm

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I think the nurses will 'stick' it out!? Well if the nurses are in any way like a couple of my friends ex wife's.. they hound them for every penny they can get from them always wanting more,more,more. The guys are not in high paying jobs and don't have a lot anyway,.but that doesn't matter All women want is diamonds and pearls. DIAMONDS and PEARLS lads. :-)))

Going to the Irish Times was a bit over the top, husband self employed, you know what that's like..if that typifies nurses.!!!!!
They were delighted to get a story to support the cause no matter what harm they done
Shameful

10-02-2019 5:35pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No. It isn't.
It's €3k a year.

Free fees.....

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/fees.html

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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