Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

brendanwalsh

INMO have mastered the art of sophistry.

Fair play to Leo for standing tall.

Nurses will buckle before the government will.

backspin.

Their new union boss is a real militant.

c.p.w.g.w

Think the government need to state how all our taxes will increase to give them their pay rise. Public support will plummet

Twenty Grand

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Think the government need to state how all our taxes will increase to give them their pay rise. Public support will plummet

Public support is not needed to resolve this strike

alexmalalex

brendanwalsh wrote: »

INMO have mastered the art of sophistry.

Fair play to Leo for standing tall.

Nurses will buckle before the government will.

The whole reason they are striking NOW is because this government is weak. There is almost a complete lack of experience, gravitas, and competence among government ministers. Coveney and Donohoe are the best that we have, and frankly both have been disappointing. The unions know the government are in a weak position, and the government will buckle.

The nurses have my full support and deserve special treatment IMO

Twenty Grand

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Public support is not needed to resolve this strike

Where will the cash come from?

eagle eye

redlead wrote:

I can never understand this. I was listening to a nurse crying on the radio this morning about how they are doing it for the patients. This despite the fact that they are just picketing for more money for themselves.

One part of them being out on strike is patient care.
Have you not been listening or do you just hear what you want?

Twenty Grand

Augeo wrote: »

Where will the cash come from?

The government obviously.
Since when has the government ever needed public opinion to spend money?

Old diesel

Achasanai wrote: »

Is this not only the second time that they have gone on strike? Hardly 'always whinging'.






There would be a reasonable expectation that pay restoration would be a feature at some point in their career, so it's not really a case of needing a 'reality check'.

The pay restoration thing......

Yes I'd agree with that - the idea that you will never again get paid whatever you did in 2007 again is frankly ludicrous.

Unless you want to run a deflation based economy, but yet growing an economy involves inflation.

The problem is that many people have grown too comfortable with the idea of accepting been screwed permanently and expect OTHERS to join them in premanent misery.

The irony is that many of the people who will hold the anti nurses chasing a good deal for themselves line - would also advocate that the market should dictate the price of housing (to rent or buy).

So if you were to take the housing approach then the correct rate of pay for nurses is whatever you need to pay them to "attract them" into vacancies in the HSE.

alloywheel

The nurses are overpaid as it is compared with most nurses in the world. Absenteeism is a real problem in the HSE with a rate close to 5%, much higher than the absenteeism rate in the private sector that pays them. Very few people support the nurses (apart from themselves), they lost whatever support they had when they shafted the poor cancer patients. Back to work they will go with their tail between their legs, and they should be glad to have a secure pensionable job with the probable recession / brexit coming for the rest of us, with probable job losses.

BarryD2

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Irish people have regard for nurses in our DNA

People instinctively back the nurses

A halt to the public health system for three consecutive days is in a different category. It was easy to write down on paper and throw it out as a threat.

Make that move and there are bound to be long lasting repercussions. Most sane people would say that is a step too far.

I very much doubt if the ordinary nurse supports this degree of escalation. Their union leadership will be in trouble.

branie2

My sister is a nurse

RinusLaptop76

redlead wrote: »

Have you ever spent more than 10 mins with a nurse? They never shut up complaining about pay, hours, holidays. If you are one think about it for a while.

I am married to a nurse so 24/7 together, and it is never about that, however just about every time she comes home she's wasted, sore back due to lack of staff and overcrowded wards. Overcrowded due to people having their elderly stay in the hospital because they want to go on vacation, for the holidays, for the benefits of these elderly, so they are not being allowed to go to a nursing home.

Would you work 12 hours a month for free?

jlm29

alloywheel wrote: »

The nurses are overpaid as it is compared with most nurses in the world. Absenteeism is a real problem in the HSE with a rate close to 5%, much higher than the absenteeism rate in the private sector that pays them. Very few people support the nurses (apart from themselves), they lost whatever support they had when they shafted the poor cancer patients. Back to work they will go with their tail between their legs, and they should be glad to have a secure pensionable job with the probable recession / brexit coming for the rest of us, with probable job losses.

Absenteeism is absolutely an issue in the hse, but I do think it’s more of a problem in other grades than frontline staff.
And it also must be considered that a) the frontline staff are literally hanging out in a germ bath all the time, and b) not welcome at work if they have an illness that they might pass on to a vulnerable patient, I think it’s more understandable. For example, if someone catches the winter vomiting bug, they are absolutely not allowed back to work until 48 hours after their last “episode”, so a 24 hour bug requires 3 days of enforced absence, while if someone worked in an office, they’d probably be back at work the following morning. This isn’t a rule designed to suit ourselves, it’s for patient safety

RinusLaptop76

alloywheel wrote: »

The nurses are overpaid as it is compared with most nurses in the world. Absenteeism is a real problem in the HSE with a rate close to 5%, much higher than the absenteeism rate in the private sector that pays them. Very few people support the nurses (apart from themselves), they lost whatever support they had when they shafted the poor cancer patients. Back to work they will go with their tail between their legs, and they should be glad to have a secure pensionable job with the probable recession / brexit coming for the rest of us, with probable job losses.

Many people support the nurses, you just don't want to believe it. The nurses didn't shaft the cancer patients, HSE overpaid management did by not having enough staff. These cancer patients had appointments cancelled for three years or so, at least some, and some go public with that, you just choose to go ostrich on it because you only want to believe what suits you best. And being absent, shortage of staff, overcrowded wards by people that dump their elderly for the holidays or just because of greed since they want to keep the pension so they won't allow the elderly to go to a nursing home.

David73

I have the solution to all these strikes.

Let's put in law that evertone one in Ireland that works, be they Teachers, Doctors, lawyers, bankers, paramedica, electricians, nurses, builders, hoteliers, shop assistants, lecturers etc all get paid the same!

No more strikes and no more quibbling!

Achasanai

redlead wrote: »

Have you ever spent more than 10 mins with a nurse? They never shut up complaining about pay, hours, holidays. If you are one think about it for a while.

I've spent far more than ten minutes with a nurse, as I was in hospital for a substantial amount of time in my youth. I never once heard them complain, nor mention anything about pay, hours, or holidays. I did receive exceptional care from them, even beyond what I imagine their contracts would state (working extra hours in order to ensure a smooth transition with the next shift, staying behind in order to talk to grieving family members or to explain in layman terms what a doctor couldn't explain during his rounds, dealing with aggressive and violent patients). I have also known nurses during my time (in a non-hospital setting) and I have never heard them talk about their contracts. Maybe you just know a couple of moany ones? That's fine, you get people like that in all walks of life.

Twenty Grand

Old diesel wrote: »

The irony is that many of the people who will hold the anti nurses chasing a good deal for themselves line - would also advocate that the market should dictate the price of housing (to rent or buy).

So if you were to take the housing approach then the correct rate of pay for nurses is whatever you need to pay them to "attract them" into vacancies in the HSE.

People are quick to ignore the staffing crisis in Irish hospitals (and in every western country) because the only way to attract students to nursing, to retain nursing graduates and to attract foreign nurses to Ireland is to increase pay and improve conditions. This goes against most of the anti PS "We pay your wages" brigade.

You cant improve conditions without hiring more nurses. You cant hire nurses until conditions or pay improve.

Ginger83

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

A swirling toilet.

The tds get it
The nurses get it
The bus drivers get it
The train drivers get it
The luas drivers get it
The Garda get it
They raise the taxes
The rest pay for it

A fecal merry go round.

Leo will be the strong leader who stops this shameful problem we have.

Leo will be ran at the next election.

Ginger83

road_high wrote: »

Which is a relative drop in the ocean compared to public service- we have 160 tds...there’s over 40k Nurses alone. Do the maths

Oh that makes it ok then

Twenty Grand

Twenty Grand wrote: »

The government obviously.
Since when has the government ever needed public opinion to spend money?

The government manages public finances.
Where the money comes from (what suffers to finance a payrise) is incredibly pertinent to election time

topmanamillion

brendanwalsh wrote: »

INMO have mastered the art of sophistry.

Fair play to Leo for standing tall.

Nurses will buckle before the government will.

The Governments a beaten ticket.
They`re currently going through the motions so they can pretend they put up a fight.
They`ll put a decent offer on the table in the next week or two.

Martina1991

seasidedub wrote:

Irish nurses start at lower rates than in many other comparable countries, you need to work 15 years to be on 45k. They move very slowly up the pay scale.

The pay is not enough to allow a nurse who is single to rent her/his own small apartment in a major urban area (where most hospitals are) . Sharing rooms at 20 might be ok, but not at 35 or 40. You go to university to have a reasonable standard, nurses can't have it on their pay in Ireland.

Many other health care professionals move slowly up their payscale. There's 13-16 points on the pay scale for nearly all disciplines to reach 45k+. But nurses have allowances early on to bump up their salary and far more opportunities for promotion.

Nurses are not the only people struggling to earn living and pay their rent. Those in low profile industries or companies are anonymous, their voices will never be heard on the news. Everyone knows and admires nurses and thinks they should get special treatment for some reason.

Achasanai wrote:

There would be a reasonable expectation that pay restoration would be a feature at some point in their career, so it's not really a case of needing a 'reality check'.

Pay restoration is already happening according to the public service agreement. Nurses themselves are getting pay increases, they were on track to earn another 3% until 2020 like the rest of us, but now they've downed tools demanding a whopping 12% across the board.

RinusLaptop76

redlead wrote: »

Have you ever spent more than 10 mins with a nurse? They never shut up complaining about pay, hours, holidays. If you are one think about it for a while.

Going through this thread it is only people like you, not nurses, that keep whining about salaries and so on, most often not properly informed, shooting their mouth off. Think about that for a while.

RinusLaptop76

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Yeah the ones on strike every year

Nurses don't strike every year

Lillyfae

alloywheel wrote: »

You cannot fathom where your father, a retired nurse, gets his money from? He gets it from the taxpayer here, that is who. I know loads of public servants who retired at 55 / 60 on pensions of 35 and 40 k a year, plus a tax free lump sum of 18 months wages.

Way to selectively quote me. This was the entirety of what I said:

Lillyfae wrote: »

We don't know that it is- some nurses get by on it and some don't. The fact of the matter is, that's life, some people can become millionaires and some can't.

As an aside my own father is a retired nurse (retired at 55 after 35 years of service) and for the life of me I cannot fathom where my parents get their money from. He even went back to night duty for his last 2 years because that's what counts for the pension. The 30 - 35k remark is total rubbish, unless the guy is doing way less than full time work

I bolded the bit that you picked out to have an argument with. I do not agree that nurses should be paid more now, I don't agree that there should be as many nurse managers as there are and I don't agree that the last 2 years before pension should be the deciding factor of what you earn as a retiree. 35 years of service? Don't make me laugh.

David73

How does paying nurses more improve their working conditions?
Employ more not pay more!

Comparing nurses to physios is a little silly. Physios are largely employed by the private sector.

Mwalshd2

The support out there for the nurses is great to see. I was walking past the local regional hospital the other day when the picket was on and the amount of horns beeping in support was heartening. Everything from little Ford fiestas to 2018 Mercs.

David73

Mwalshd2 wrote: »

The support out there for the nurses is great to see. I was walking past the local regional hospital the other day when the picket was on and the amount of horns beeping in support was heartening. Everything from little Ford fiestas to 2018 Mercs.

Are you sure they weren't irate motorists beepin in frustration for being stuck in traffic?

mattser

Mwalshd2 wrote: »

The support out there for the nurses is great to see. I was walking past the local regional hospital the other day when the picket was on and the amount of horns beeping in support was heartening. Everything from little Ford fiestas to 2018 Mercs.

Away outta that with ya. Sure the 2 or 3 all knowing mouths on this after hours thread say there is little or no public support. The rest of us are only imagining things.