What was that about in strokestown?

charlie14

runawaybishop wrote: »

No one waltzed in and them being from outside the state means nothing. The law doesn't request a PSA license for repossessions, simple as. The justice minister will likely change that in future but for now you do not need one.

Obviously if the justice minister is likely to change that then it does and that it has made a mockery of the Garda vetting and licencing requirements to date that allows any Tom Dick or Harry operate without one while being given State support by Garda and the courts as seems evident in this case.

runawaybishop

charlie14 wrote: »

Obviously if the justice minister is likely to change that then it does and that it has made a mockery of the Garda vetting and licencing requirements to date that allows any Tom Dick or Harry operate without one while being given State support by Garda as seems evident in this case.

I don't see what Garda vetting has to do with this, but I don't care enough to argue

Brown Podzol

rivegauche wrote: »

Grow up. Either Farmers are Business persons or they are not and it is up to them to ensure that the debts they take on are sustainable and servicable.
Rock up in the middle ages to the De Medici family without Collateral and see how far you would have got; this is how banking works.

Maybe you could enlighten us what collateral the banks themselves give when borrowing, either on the interbank market or for deposits taken. Also large companies with little or no tangible assets, what collateral do they give when borrowing.

charlie14

runawaybishop wrote: »

I don't see what Garda vetting has to do with this, but I don't care enough to argue

You obviously have a fair idea. Otherwise why go to the trouble of posting.

runawaybishop

charlie14 wrote: »

You obviously have a fair idea. Otherwise why go to the trouble of posting.

Because I think you are talking through your hoop and should be pulled up on it.

twin_beacon

laoch na mona wrote: »

as someone with an interest in history this thing in Roscommon is like something from the 1930s when the likes of Peadar O'Donnell organised small farmers to oppose baillifs collecting land annuities.

Anyway fair play to all involved

No, its not really like that at all.
The people in question have a history of not paying their debts, this is what happens when you don't pay your debts.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mod note: Just a quick reminder to folks that don't post here often, you are expected to remain civil when discussing subjects here, both regulars and non regulars. Any more messing and you can find somewhere else to post.


Buford T. Justice.

oceanman

runawaybishop wrote: »

No one waltzed in and them being from outside the state means nothing. The law doesn't request a PSA license for repossessions, simple as. The justice minister will likely change that in future but for now you do not need one.

the justice minister needs to change it right now....as it stands its a total farce!

runawaybishop

oceanman wrote: »

the justice minister needs to change it right now....as it stands its a total farce!

I dont really see what's farcical about it, from what I see the lads doing the evicting did so under the supervision of the gardai who didn't see any issues. Don't have a problem with it being regulated though.

charlie14

runawaybishop wrote: »

Because I think you are talking through your hoop and should be pulled up on it.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I did not see where you made any points, let alone any that you pulled me up on.

kowtow

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Maybe you could enlighten us what collateral the banks themselves give when borrowing, either on the interbank market or for deposits taken. Also large companies with little or no tangible assets, what collateral do they give when borrowing.

They do sometimes give a floating charge on assets, including future cashflows. At it's extreme they package these into separate entities and borrow through them with or without the explicit or implied guarantee of the parent - those are the so-called securitisation vehicles which caused such trouble in 2008.

I'm not sure that anything can be done about it now but for what it is worth I think the Irish / EU Govt got away with murder when underwriting the banks retrospectively. It has always struck me as inequitable that so much business borrowing in Ireland was backed by unlimited personal guarantees - so called recourse lending. That is by no means the case in all jurisdictions and one wonders whether when providing banks with an unlimited future guarantee on behalf of the population individual borrowers should have been released from their obligations under personal guarantee. I am aware that such an agreement might have made the bailout less effective, but in the absence of one it is difficult to see that it was equitable.

None of which is to say that the actions in Roscommon can be justified.

runawaybishop

charlie14 wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion, but I did not see where you made any points, let alone any that you pulled me up on.

Sorry about that, I retract what I said.

I disagree that its a farce/disgrace etc that you do not have to be a licensed PSA member to conduct evictions.

realdanbreen

twin_beacon wrote: »

, this is what happens when you don't pay your debts.

Bringing down loyalist thugs to manhandle Irish citizens is not what should happen under any circumstances. If my namesake and his comrades in the third Tipperary brigade were around today then it would not have been a hospital that those thugs ended up in.

charlie14

runawaybishop wrote: »

Sorry about that, I retract what I said.

I disagree that ists a farce/disgrace etc that you donl not have to be a licensed PSA member to conduct evictions.

Fair enough.


Personally I believe that it is a complete farce to have unvetted and unlicenced individuals involved in any type of security or debt collection process being back up by the courts or the Garda Siochana.
Especially in this incident when there is a fairly strong suggestion individuals from outside the state are the type of scum that the vetting and licencing was established to prevent operating in pub and night club security.

twin_beacon

realdanbreen wrote: »

Bringing down loyalist thugs to manhandle Irish citizens is not what should happen under any circumstances. If my namesake and his comrades in the third Tipperary brigade were around today then it would not have been a hospital that those thugs ended up in.

I don't condone the style of the repossession at all. I don't think there would have been many complaints at all if the group repossessing the property were from the Republic. However, I have no problem with the property actually being repossessed. The man involved ran up a massive tax bill, and has a history of not paying his debtors.

charlie14 wrote: »

Personally I believe that it is a complete farce to have unvetted and unlicenced individuals involved in any type of security or debt collection process being back up by the courts or the Garda Siochana.

I fully agree. The courts should have their own people to enforce repossessions like this.

kippy

twin_beacon wrote: »

I don't condone the style of the repossession at all. I don't think there would have been many complaints at all if the group repossessing the property were from the Republic. However, I have no problem with the property actually being repossessed. The man involved ran up a massive tax bill, and has a history of not paying his debtors.



I fully agree. The courts should have their own people to enforce repossessions like this.

The courts do.

That said, who would want to do this work?

twin_beacon

I mean only the people appointed by the courts should do this job, not a private firm.

Geuze

twin_beacon wrote: »

I mean only the people appointed by the courts should do this job, not a private firm.

The county registrar did appoint these people.

Snowfire

Spare a thought for all the parents in the Rosc region trying to source baseball bats for precious kids for Christmas and all the shops out of stock...!

pablo128

Snowfire wrote: »

Spare a thought for all the parents in the Rosc region trying to source baseball bats for precious kids for Christmas and all the shops out of stock...!

It might be easier to source a baseball bat than a farm loan in that area if it keeps up....

Danzy

Getting in a bunch of loyalist thugs was not a bright idea.

Add in the gratuitous violence from them and it was bound to lead to a backlash.

The guy who owns it, ****ed up in all kinds of ways as well.

Will it be the Sicilian mob that gets the contract next.

The approach taken guaranteed that this would escalate.

charlie14

Geuze wrote: »

The county registrar did appoint these people.

Then the county registrar, as should an Garda Siochana, ensure that whoever is appointed is vetted and licenced by the state.
From what I see off this, a lot of the aftermath resulting from this eviction is due to it appearing that a bunch of Northern Ireland loyalist thugs were involved in the initial eviction.

eagle eye

charlie14 wrote:

Then the county registrar, as should an Garda Siochana, ensure that whoever is appointed is vetted and licenced by the state. From what I see off this, a lot of the aftermath resulting from this eviction is due to it appearing that a bunch of Northern Ireland loyalist thugs were involved in the initial eviction.

This is exactly why the majority of people are angry about this whole event.

Brown Podzol

rivegauche wrote: »

Grow up. Either Farmers are Business persons or they are not and it is up to them to ensure that the debts they take on are sustainable and servicable.
Rock up in the middle ages to the De Medici family without Collateral and see how far you would have got; this is how banking works.

On the history lesson I seem to remember a lad from that era giving a pound of flesh as collateral. Didn't go well for the lender. Lesson, check the quality of the collateral.

cameramonkey

Geuze wrote: »

The county registrar did appoint these people.

How did the county registrar appoint this Northern firm? Have you a link?

K.G.

good craic in the dail today with peirce confirming the boys were involved

runawaybishop

charlie14 wrote: »

Fair enough.


Personally I believe that it is a complete farce to have unvetted and unlicenced individuals involved in any type of security or debt collection process being back up by the courts or the Garda Siochana.
Especially in this incident when there is a fairly strong suggestion individuals from outside the state are the type of scum that the vetting and licencing was established to prevent operating in pub and night club security.

They are vetted and licensed to operate in Northern Ireland by the SIA . They cannot, under current requirements, be licensed here as they are not resident.

Nothing I have seen shows them operating like scum in the Roscommon eviction. I think people just hate then because they are British, which is a bit pathetic.

I do agree that it would be better if the eviction was conducted by licensed individuals, but it was overseen by the gardai.

BENDYBINN

Snowfire wrote: »

Spare a thought for all the parents in the Rosc region trying to source baseball bats for precious kids for Christmas and all the shops out of stock...!

But it was the ira that did it not the nice rossies

kowtow

Brown Podzol wrote: »

On the history lesson I seem to remember a lad from that era giving a pound of flesh as collateral. Didn't go well for the lender. Lesson, check the quality of the collateral.

IIRC it was not the quality of the collateral, but rather the quality of mercy which got him off the hook.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

IIRC it was not the quality of the collateral, but rather the quality of mercy which got him off the hook.

Old Shylock was granted his pound of flesh but not a drop of blood could be taken with it.


Always read the small print;)