What was that about in strokestown?

loveall

Say my name wrote: »

Tis the internet age now.

It was interesting looking at the profiles of the facebook commentators on the various farming groups.
At the start of the rabble they had all chucky all La profiles before more suckers got pulled in.

It's a Sinn Fein miracle. Vote Sinn Fein.

That's the problem. I don't think our day has come yet, there's better ways than the crap people are being fed. Just playing into someones agenda.

Say my name

loveall wrote: »

That's the problem. I don't think our day has come yet, there's better ways than the crap people are being fed. Just playing into someones agenda.

Our day will come though....

I've the sprong cleaned up and new wellies bought.

loveall

Say my name wrote: »

Our day will come though....

I've the sprong cleaned up and new wellies bought.

Serious chuckle at that.

TITANIUM.

Say my name wrote: »

Our day will come though....

I've the sprong cleaned up and new wellies bought.

And I've 2 trailer loads of turf soaking in kerosene. I'll bring the old wellies tho.

Mooooo

Say my name wrote: »

Our day will come though....

I've the sprong cleaned up and new wellies bought.

What about the pike?

tayto lover

Violence is not the way to sort this out.
Neither side steeped in glory in this event.

If I don't pay my mortgage I'd expect to get turfed out of my house although I wouldn't like a shower of Loyalists thugs coming down to do it.

Say my name

Mooooo wrote: »

What about the pike?

No time for fishing.... FFS!!

wrangler

[PHP][/PHP]

tayto lover wrote: »

Violence is not the way to sort this out.
Neither side steeped in glory in this event.

If I don't pay my mortgage I'd expect to get turfed out of my house although I wouldn't like a shower of Loyalists thugs coming down to do it.

I presume you'd leave, you wouldn't need to be turfed out

loveall

tayto lover wrote: »

Violence is not the way to sort this out.
Neither side steeped in glory in this event.

If I don't pay my mortgage I'd expect to get turfed out of my house although I wouldn't like a shower of Loyalists thugs coming down to do it.

Sounds like you'd have the decency to walk away when you should. None of us would shift for no one if we didn't want to. Who's going to reap the benefits of this? I didn't pick the security guys and neither did you.


Me tinks we're being played.


Headin for a pint. Good luck lads

LawBoy2018

There are several reasons why this incident has attracted such a strong reaction from the public, but I think everyone is in agreement that the manner in which this family were evicted from their home is unacceptable.

As a country, did we really want to accept what happened in Strokestown as precedent for the evictions in the future? Where would it end?

To be raised in a country whereby an Garda Siochana are the main protectors in society, only to see them watch on while 3 elderly individuals are dragged from their home in rural Ireland under an unlawful court order from the Circuit Court? To watch on while a retired Garda member is dragged to the ground and assaulted by KBC's northern mercenaries?

The family weren't even granted the common decency to gather their belongings before they were thrown out of the house, and it was reported today that they were still in the same clothes that they were wearing the day of the eviction.

368100

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

There are several reasons why this incident has attracted such a strong reaction from the public, but I think everyone is in agreement that the manner in which this family were evicted from their home is unacceptable.

As a country, did we really want to accept what happened in Strokestown as precedent for the evictions in the future? Where would it end?

To be raised in a country whereby an Garda Siochana are the main protectors in society, only to see them watch on while 3 elderly individuals are dragged from their home in rural Ireland under an unlawful court order from the Circuit Court? To watch on while a retired Garda member is dragged to the ground and assaulted by KBC's northern mercenaries?

The family weren't even granted the common decency to gather their belongings before they were thrown out of the house, and it was reported today that they were still in the same clothes that they were wearing the day of the eviction.

They would have had plenty of notice to pack up belongings....this is going on 14 years without a single payment made

AlekSmart

loveall wrote: »

Sounds like you'd have the decency to walk away when you should. None of us would shift for no one if we didn't want to. Who's going to reap the benefits of this? I didn't pick the security guys and neither did you.


Me tinks we're being played.


Headin for a pint. Good luck lads

Any links as to how long the Court proceedings have been going on for ?

LawBoy2018

And how could you possibly know that? The facts around this case are all hearsay. No bank will ever have the grounds to discuss this case with anyone but a judge, and I highly doubt you know the family personally?

There are procedures to be followed and from what I can see, were not followed.

368100

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

And how could you possibly know that? The facts around this case are all hearsay. No bank will ever have the grounds to discuss this case with anyone but a judge, and I highly doubt you know the family personally?

There are procedures to be followed and from what I can see, were not followed.

Im divulging how I know but its reliable. How do you know procedures were not followed?

NIMAN

The eviction was handled very very badly, and I am sure KBC or Cahoot or whoever are annoyed about the media attention they are getting, but fundamentally the underlying eviction was justified from what has been printed in the mainstream media.

coolshannagh28

Hard to find any sympathy for the party in the eviction process , but reading between the lines they are being repossessed by a company called Cabot on behalf of the vulture fund Cerberus who would have bought the loan at a very steep discount , The security company are working on behalf of Bidx who are the vendors of choice for Cabot .
In a scenario like this I cant see why a workout couldn't have been done ie sell some land and keep the house , either the Vulture fund is looking full payment on a loan they bought for cents on the euro or the occupying party are not playing ball in any way .
Both sides have questions to answer but its not as black and white as we are led to believe.

LawBoy2018

368100 wrote: »

Im divulging how I know but its reliable. How do you know procedures were not followed?

Luke Ming stated on twitter that the inhabitants were never given the opportunity to attend Court in relation to the eviction. Under the legislation governing mortgages in Ireland, the mortgagor is to be given every opportunity to make payments towards the mortgage. Again this is hearsay as nobody actually knows what the arrangement between both parties is, but one would have to wonder whether these people were given the same opportunity as maybe their more wealthy counterparts in Dublin would have been.

Wildly Boaring

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

There are several reasons why this incident has attracted such a strong reaction from the public, but I think everyone is in agreement that the manner in which this family were evicted from their home is unacceptable.

As a country, did we really want to accept what happened in Strokestown as precedent for the evictions in the future? Where would it end?

To be raised in a country whereby an Garda Siochana are the main protectors in society, only to see them watch on while 3 elderly individuals are dragged from their home in rural Ireland under an unlawful court order from the Circuit Court? To watch on while a retired Garda member is dragged to the ground and assaulted by KBC's northern mercenaries?

The family weren't even granted the common decency to gather their belongings before they were thrown out of the house, and it was reported today that they were still in the same clothes that they were wearing the day of the eviction.

I'm afraid in this case I cannot see any outcome but eviction.

400k to Revenue
18k to quarry
Other outstanding local debt
Undisclosed amount to kbc not Cabot, which they have made no attempt at all to pay.

The manner of the eviction is distasteful but they should have vacated once court order issued.

Unfortunately this type of eviction is warranted. Without a guarantee of security banks will not loan to anyone. So if this ends up in court for the foreseeable farmers and similar businesses will find credit closed to them.

By all accounts standard security firms down here have easier ways to make money than to be splashed all over Facebook with name and address for every wannabe hard man to threaten.

People seem to want eviction by primary school kids and perhaps Westlife.

Generally I would oppose this situation especially the personal doing the dirty work. In this instance it seems the farmers are completely in the wrong.

368100

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Luke Ming stated on twitter that the inhabitants were never given the opportunity to attend Court in relation to the eviction. Under the legislation governing mortgages in Ireland, the mortgagor is to be given every opportunity to make payments towards the mortgage. Again this is hearsay as nobody actually knows what the arrangement between both parties is, but one would have to wonder whether these people were given the same opportunity as maybe their more wealthy counterparts in Dublin would have been.

I highly doubt they werent told about the hearing date in the court.....they would have been served notice by registered post...and if they were there would be nothing anyone could do to stop them attending court.

Agree with above, but its obvious that they didnt make any attempt to pay, while paying private security to stop the repossession

NIMAN

I would assume the private firm was the absolute last resort?

I'd say if the occupants had left quietly then there would have been no need for them at all? But if I was a betting man, and looking at the debts the family owed, they simply ignored all requests and basically gave 2 fingers to the authorities.

If thats the case, then carrying people off property really is the only option. And then this type of behaviour is manna from heaven for those who think no-one should ever have to pay for anything in this country.

MrMusician18

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

There are several reasons why this incident has attracted such a strong reaction from the public, but I think everyone is in agreement that the manner in which this family were evicted from their home is unacceptable.

As a country, did we really want to accept what happened in Strokestown as precedent for the evictions in the future? Where would it end?

To be raised in a country whereby an Garda Siochana are the main protectors in society, only to see them watch on while 3 elderly individuals are dragged from their home in rural Ireland under an unlawful court order from the Circuit Court? To watch on while a retired Garda member is dragged to the ground and assaulted by KBC's northern mercenaries?

The family weren't even granted the common decency to gather their belongings before they were thrown out of the house, and it was reported today that they were still in the same clothes that they were wearing the day of the eviction.

Id say there's a fair few lads in their 50s and even 60s on this forum who wouldn't like to be referred to as elderly.

This fella had been defaulting on debt for years, it eventually catches up with you

MrMusician18

NIMAN wrote: »

I would assume the private firm was the absolute last resort?

I'd say if the occupants had left quietly then there would have been no need for them at all? But if I was a betting man, and looking at the debts the family owed, they simply ignored all requests and basically gave 2 fingers to the authorities.

If thats the case, then carrying people off property really is the only option. And then this type of behaviour is manna from heaven for those who think no-one should ever have to pay for anything in this country.

The fact that such a large number arrived, with the Gardai there to keep the peace would suggest that this wasn't the first time an eviction was attempted or that it was made clear to the creditors that resistance was going to be given.

Donald Trump

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'm afraid in this case I cannot see any outcome but eviction.

400k to Revenue
18k to quarry
Other outstanding local debt
Undisclosed amount to kbc not Cabot, which they have made no attempt at all to pay.

The manner of the eviction is distasteful but they should have vacated once court order issued.

Unfortunately this type of eviction is warranted. Without a guarantee of security banks will not loan to anyone. So if this ends up in court for the foreseeable farmers and similar businesses will find credit closed to them.

By all accounts standard security firms down here have easier ways to make money than to be splashed all over Facebook with name and address for every wannabe hard man to threaten.

People seem to want eviction by primary school kids and perhaps Westlife.

Generally I would oppose this situation especially the personal doing the dirty work. In this instance it seems the farmers are completely in the wrong.

This mixing in of the 450k to revenue is kind of a side show. Owing to the revenue is different from owing to the bank and it cannot be used to justify the debt owners scramble for payment.

If the previous owners owe money they should of course dispose of their assets or make agreements to pay off the debts.

But the fact that a company is owed money, and gets a repossession order, does not give it licence to employ thugs to assault people.

If you did something on me, I sued you and the judge awarded me 1000 Euro, I don't have a licence to arrive down to your place and batter you tomorrow until you pay it.

The vigilantes should not have done what they did, but from what I've read/heard I think the "security" were asking for it.

Wildly Boaring

Donald Trump wrote: »

This mixing in of the 450k to revenue is kind of a side show. Owing to the revenue is different from owing to the bank and it cannot be used to justify the debt owners scramble for payment.

If the previous owners owe money they should of course dispose of their assets or make agreements to pay off the debts.

But the fact that a company is owed money, and gets a repossession order, does not give it licence to employ thugs to assault people.

If you did something on me, I sued you and the judge awarded me 1000 Euro, I don't have a licence to arrive down to your place and batter you tomorrow until you pay it.

The vigilantes should not have done what they did, but from what I've read/heard I think the "security" were asking for it.

I really do not agree with the manner of the eviction.

But

Either they leave of their own volition
Which they do not appear to want to do

Or

They are forceably removed.
Would not like to see the guards do this.
So who does. And can it be done in a timely manner.

As I said above, if defaulters like this who take out as loan and make no effort to repay are not evicted then we have another problem. How do farmers get credit??

I realise Revenue dealings are an aside just showing the history. And that kbc or whoever are down the repayment pecking order.

Also quarry debt is pretty massive. I owe a fella here 1000 from September and I feel awful that only getting to him now.

BTW people were forceably removed not beaten to a pulp. There were gardai standing watching and recordings.

charlie14

Whatever the rights or wrongs on the debt owed, what did KBC, or whoever set this eviction in motion, think they were at a week before Christmas. And on this eviction order from the courts can a private security firm act on it and evict ?
In fact can an eviction squad from NI or wherever this group came from even operate in the Republic?
Even club and bar door staff need Garda clearance, so how can someone from outside of the state operate here ?
Even if KBC end up with this property it is now of no value to them. Not a hope in hell they could now give it away let alone sell it.

Donald Trump

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I really do not agree with the manner of the eviction. <br /><br />
<br /><br />
But<br /><br />
<br /><br />
Either they leave of their own volition<br /><br />
Which they do not appear to want to do<br /><br />
<br /><br />
Or<br /><br />
<br /><br />
They are forceably removed. <br /><br />
Would not like to see the guards do this. <br /><br />
So who does. And can it be done in a timely manner. <br /><br />
<br /><br />
As I said above, if defaulters like this who take out as loan and make no effort to repay are not evicted then we have another problem. How do farmers get credit??<br /><br />
<br /><br />
I realise Revenue dealings are an aside just showing the history. And that kbc or whoever are down the repayment pecking order. <br /><br />
<br /><br />
Also quarry debt is pretty massive. I owe a fella here 1000 from September and I feel awful that only getting to him now. <br /><br />
<br /><br />
BTW people were forceably removed not beaten to a pulp. There were gardai standing watching and recordings.

You see, as you alluded to, the crowd that KBC sold the debt to are down the pecking order. Everyone comes behind Revenue. Therefore there might be an incentive on their part to seize and dispose of assets to get what they are owed before Revenue make their move.

Suppose the owner owes Revenue 500k, the &quot;Bank&quot; 100k but his property is only worth 400k. If the "Bank" waits for it's turn, it will get zero. But if it jumps ahead (gets it's court order) and seizes the property, sells it at a firesale 200k and has its repossession bills for 100k then it is covered. Owner now has no property and still a 500k debt to Revenue which cannot be extinguished by bankruptcy. Whereas his debt to the "bank" could be. There is no incentive for the Bank to try to get the proper value of the property over and above what they are owed. Of course, this is why it is imperative for the "owner" to engage.


As for forcibly removing the "owner". Ok, he won't leave. But is there not an option to go back to the court and have him declared in contempt? That would be a fairly serious charge and and automatic jailing until that contempt was purged. So I don't think it is necessary to physically lay a hand on anyone (other than in self defense).

Of course they should pay their debts. And if they won't then of course the property should be taken from them. But there has to have been a better way to do it.

Signpost

charlie14 wrote: »

Even if KBC end up with this property it is now of no value to them. Not a hope in hell they could now give it away let alone sell it.

Everything has a price. If it is going for the right amount someone be them local or outsider will see the gain for themselves, buy it, deal with a small amount of local backlash and in no time at all everything will be forgotten about and the world moves on. No matter how high the profile of the case someone will see a bargin and go for it

charlie14

Signpost wrote: »

Everything has a price. If it is going for the right amount someone be them local or outsider will see the gain for themselves, buy it, deal with a small amount of local backlash and in no time at all everything will be forgotten about and the world moves on. No matter how high the profile of the case someone will see a bargin and go for it

We are not talking about a house in a housing estate here where that would have a fair chance of success.

This is a farm. A totally different ball game. Even without all the attention this had attracted nationally and the obvious animosity locally.

oceanman

Signpost wrote: »

Everything has a price. If it is going for the right amount someone be them local or outsider will see the gain for themselves, buy it, deal with a small amount of local backlash and in no time at all everything will be forgotten about and the world moves on. No matter how high the profile of the case someone will see a bargin and go for it

I think you will find in rural areas people tend to have long memories.

Signpost

Have a good understanding of rural areas and farming, not saying I would be buying it but I have seen first hand similar properties being bought. Will be open to the highest bidder, just because its not a local doesn't mean it's not going to be sold.
Hope I'm wrong but I'd be very surprised if it remained on the market for too long at a rock bottom price.