Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

go to mclaren,

That's the choice Riccardo should have made but he took a gamble on Renault and it is not good so far.
Would have been interesting go have Riccardo and Lando Norris as team mates at Mclaren. I would say he would have been happier there too.

That's fine with hindsight. Mclaren is a customer team. Renault is a factory team. That alone is a big point.

It's worth remembering that his chances of becoming WC were very slim. Near zero. The Red Bull was vastly more likely to be the best car he could get but they had chosen max as their guy. So he was betting on either mclaren or Renault becoming a championship competitive car. Neither were great options with very low percentages of producing a championship winning car.

I don't criticise him for choosing Renault.

Dont be at yourself

Pretty clear Ricciardo is betting on Renault for 2021 rather than this year.

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's fine with hindsight. Mclaren is a customer team. Renault is a factory team. That alone is a big point.

It's worth remembering that his chances of becoming WC were very slim. Near zero. The Red Bull was vastly more likely to be the best car he could get but they had chosen max as their guy. So he was betting on either mclaren or Renault becoming a championship competitive car. Neither were great options with very low percentages of producing a championship winning car.

I don't criticise him for choosing Renault.

Very true. I agree last year there was not a lot in it and infact Renault looked like the better option I would say at the time as the improved last year over the year before but have not kept it up this year unfortunately for Ricciardo and dos of us the like to see him racing. No one could have known that Mclaren would improve as much as they have.
Hopefully its a bit better for him in the second have of the season and then better again next year and the following years.

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Pretty clear Ricciardo is betting on Renault for 2021 rather than this year.

Hope they come good for him then. Going to be a bit of a wait for him. Hopefully Renault do improve a bit next year.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

Hope they come good for him then. Going to be a bit of a wait for him. Hopefully Renault do improve a bit next year.

I agree with the forest paragraph. And he was almost certainly betting on Renault in 2021 with the rule changes. In fact Renault has had a philosophy of having a budget of $150m, hoping the budget cap would be accepted and it would be able to continue business as usual while the bigger teams spending 300m a year would be in disarray. But the budget cap appears to have been set at about what merc is spending at the moment. So Renault won't benefit much from it as the big teams will only have to Maintain their spending rather than actually decrease it and let people go, restructure etc.

He had a tiny chance of being in a position to win win the world championship and it had turned out as expected.

Harika

Riccardo has a get out of jail card. if Mercedes or Ferrari calls,he could swap for free.

El_Duderino 09

Harika wrote: »

Riccardo has a get out of jail card. if Mercedes or Ferrari calls,he could swap for free.

I wouldn't expect either to call. Merc have their 2 candidates to partner Hamilton. Ferrari have leclerc and as long as Sebastian doesn't retire, they have him too. There are rumours that he could go back to red bull but presumably that isn't covered by his get out of jail free card. So he might have to do his sentence in jail. How long is his Contract? 2 years?

Joeface

I still think he made to right choice as already pointed out it's a manufacturer , yes McLaren are head at the moment but Renault will get it together . It is also clear he is been treated as a number one driver over Hulk . I don't think he ever expected to be winning races this year . A few race finishes in Fifth and Sixth and their season will have turned around ...see how I dismissed Gasly there. I do feel bad about that.

rock22

meeeeh wrote: »

McLaren are paying for their own arrogance. They blamed Honda for everything and made themselves irrelevant instead of looking how to cooperate. I hope they stagnate around midfield with their great Renault engines for long time.

Anyway a race in Saudi Arabia is on the horizon which is pretty despicable and not the direction F1 should go. While I don't overly want sport to take political stand it does seem F1 is just becoming a vehicle to legitimize any crack pot dictatorship willing to pay enough to host the race.

I'm beginning to think the same way. Pity, but making money seems to be the only criteria for F1 now.
At one time the teams threatened to pull out of F1 and create a new series. I would love to see this happening

El_Duderino 09

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Sure they did, it was very clear their chassis wasn't "the best on the grid" and just held back by the Honda engine, as they claimed; It is also fair to say that Honda were absolutely hopeless at the beginning of their cooperation in 2015 and the hyper-proud Japanese mentality of not admitting their concept was wrong and needed an U-turn in terms of management and design didn't help at all. It was the classic case where everyone from the public to the parties involved expected the simple existence of the "McLaren-Honda" moniker to bring back the glory of the late '80s.



In reality it was always going to be a long-term task that needed patience on the side of McLaren and cooperation on that of Honda and neither conducted themselves in a constructive fashion.

That "best on the grid" claim was always going to be embarrassing. But it might have been tactical to impress a potential sponsor in the (very) short term.

Something that's easily forgotten is that Ron Denis' return was less than glorious. In fact they've been very gracious by not throwing him under the bus -they threw honda under the bus instead. Joe Saward told a story about him negotiating with Johnnie Walker as one of the main sponsors. They offered 70m over X years because of the reduced status of McLaren in the early honda days. Ron wanted 120m and played hardball and... Lost the Johnnie Walker sponsorship altogether and the McLaren simply had a blank space on the rear wing for the rest of the season.

How long was it until hey put him out to pasture?

flazio

I'm happy to see this place stay on the calendar.
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1159496052728324097?s=19

TCP/IP

Just caught up on some episodes of beyond the grid really enjoyed the Kevin Mag and James Allison both very interesting.

Indestructable

If you were going to a GP in Europe which one would you go to?
Has anyone been and can recommend one? I'm thinking of going next year and want one that's easy enough to get to in terms of near an airport or town to stay in. Preferably somewhere that can be combined as a city break, to keep herself happy!

Thinking of Budapest, added bonus is it's on the bank holiday in August.

Thanks for any input

Dont be at yourself

3 day pass for Monza going for €199 here: https://bepartofalfaromeoracing.com/formula-1/packages/alfa-romeo-racing-monza-experience

Includes some free Alfa merch too.

flazio

If the Spanish Grand Prix is still there it's a great first timer spot. Granted it's been 20 years since I've been there but, on general admission myself and my dad stayed to the right of the main stand just after the last corner where we could see,
The TV screen for the main stand,
the back markers take the grid,
the start,
thanks to some slanted windows over the pitlane the first two pit boxes which were Ferrari and McLaren at the time,
Mika Hakkinen taking the Chequered Flag.
The podium.

El_Duderino 09

Indestructable wrote: »

If you were going to a GP in Europe which one would you go to?
Has anyone been and can recommend one? I'm thinking of going next year and want one that's easy enough to get to in terms of near an airport or town to stay in. Preferably somewhere that can be combined as a city break, to keep herself happy!

Thinking of Budapest, added bonus is it's on the bank holiday in August.

Thanks for any input

Couldn't recommended it more highly. It's a genuine destination city. Went there last year with the lads for the gp and I Intend to go back with the Mrs for a long weekend. The track is a bit outside the city but they run free shuttle bus service from the city.

Sonny noggs

Indestructable wrote: »

If you were going to a GP in Europe which one would you go to?
Has anyone been and can recommend one? I'm thinking of going next year and want one that's easy enough to get to in terms of near an airport or town to stay in. Preferably somewhere that can be combined as a city break, to keep herself happy!

Thinking of Budapest, added bonus is it's on the bank holiday in August.

Thanks for any input

Went to the Hungarian GP last year, was easy to get to and from the track on public transport (they had free buses from the city), Budapest a nice city for a weekend break.

I would recommend spending extra on a good ticket with a large screen in front of you so you know what’s going on on the rest of the track.

g1983d

Indestructable wrote: »

If you were going to a GP in Europe which one would you go to?
Has anyone been and can recommend one? I'm thinking of going next year and want one that's easy enough to get to in terms of near an airport or town to stay in. Preferably somewhere that can be combined as a city break, to keep herself happy!

Thinking of Budapest, added bonus is it's on the bank holiday in August.

Thanks for any input

Monza is great, fly into Milan, stay in Como, easy transport with the trains.
Weather should be decent and Como is nice and relaxing

meeeeh

Another vote for Budapest. I've been there a few times, once for GP. It's just a great city. OH went to Barcelona and Monza (staying in Milan) couple of times. I think he prefers Barcelona as destination and he is a Ferrari fan.

H3llR4iser

I would second Barcelona if it stays on the calendar (it looks like it will afterall):

- The track is about 10 minutes walk from a actual town/small city (Montmelo') with shops, bars etc., rather than in the middle of a field; You can easily grab food & drinks on the way to the track (they had everything in plastic bottles when I was there in 2014) or stop for a pint coming back from the track in the evening

- If you want to stay in Barcelona, it's only 45 minutes by train (R3 line) and it's an extremely efficient service, not to mention cheap (the one-way ticket was something like 2 Euro).

- Plenty of hotels in Barcelona - if you book early enough you'll get very competitive prices (IIRC, I paid less than 200 Euro for 3 nights near Sants station)

- The track itself, while not the most thrilling, is a natural "theater" as it's built at the bottom of a slight valley; From anywhere you can see a good chunk of track rather than just a corner or two

- The logistics are surprisingly good, I was on a packed but not unbearable train back to Barcelona less than 2 hours after the race ended

- Weather is usually good

flexcon

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I would second Barcelona if it stays on the calendar (it looks like it will afterall):

- The track is about 10 minutes walk from a actual town/small city (Montmelo') with shops, bars etc., rather than in the middle of a field; You can easily grab food & drinks on the way to the track (they had everything in plastic bottles when I was there in 2014) or stop for a pint coming back from the track in the evening

- If you want to stay in Barcelona, it's only 45 minutes by train (R3 line) and it's an extremely efficient service, not to mention cheap (the one-way ticket was something like 2 Euro).

- Plenty of hotels in Barcelona - if you book early enough you'll get very competitive prices (IIRC, I paid less than 200 Euro for 3 nights near Sants station)

- The track itself, while not the most thrilling, is a natural "theater" as it's built at the bottom of a slight valley; From anywhere you can see a good chunk of track rather than just a corner or two

- The logistics are surprisingly good, I was on a packed but not unbearable train back to Barcelona less than 2 hours after the race ended

- Weather is usually good

selfishly I'd love for it to stay so I can continue my very cheap, yearly visit to watch the testing.

Indestructable

Thanks for all the responses everyone, definitely some great food for thought. Will get to planning in the next couple of weeks and make a decision from there. Very exciting!! I love the idea of Italy or Spain, though we've been to Barca before.

g1983d

This reads as though bottas knows his goose is cooked
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/145314/bottas-looking-at-nonmercedes-plan-b

H3llR4iser

g1983d wrote: »

This reads as though bottas knows his goose is cooked
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/145314/bottas-looking-at-nonmercedes-plan-b

I'd be utterly surprised if Mercedes decides to go any other way than keeping Valterri for at least another season. They have pretty much a picture perfect arrangement: he can deliver solid results and even the occasional win, without being too much of a nuisance to Hamilton. As long as Mercedes delivers a competitive car, Bottas will be 2nd or 3rd in the championsip.



People are giving way too much weight to the last couple of bad races he had - also, for some reason I can't fathom, everyone seems in love with Ocon.



The only way I see Wolff deciding to run the risk of putting Esteban in the car is if he SERIOUSLY thinks they have a masterclass young driver in their hands and are afraid of losing him. If that turned out to be true, however, they'd have a major headache in the relationship with Hamilton - which would inevitably sour to the point of being unmanageable.

pjohnson

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I'd be utterly surprised if Mercedes decides to go any other way than keeping Valterri for at least another season. They have pretty much a picture perfect arrangement: he can deliver solid results and even the occasional win, without being too much of a nuisance to Hamilton. As long as Mercedes delivers a competitive car, Bottas will be 2nd or 3rd in the championsip.



People are giving way too much weight to the last couple of bad races he had - also, for some reason I can't fathom, everyone seems in love with Ocon.



The only way I see Wolff deciding to run the risk of putting Esteban in the car is if he SERIOUSLY thinks they have a masterclass young driver in their hands and are afraid of losing him. If that turned out to be true, however, they'd have a major headache in the relationship with Hamilton - which would inevitably sour to the point of being unmanageable.

I think if Toto has as much faith in Ocon as he makes out he would have been given the Williams seat instead of Russell.

mickdw

pjohnson wrote: »

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I'd be utterly surprised if Mercedes decides to go any other way than keeping Valterri for at least another season. They have pretty much a picture perfect arrangement: he can deliver solid results and even the occasional win, without being too much of a nuisance to Hamilton. As long as Mercedes delivers a competitive car, Bottas will be 2nd or 3rd in the championsip.



People are giving way too much weight to the last couple of bad races he had - also, for some reason I can't fathom, everyone seems in love with Ocon.



The only way I see Wolff deciding to run the risk of putting Esteban in the car is if he SERIOUSLY thinks they have a masterclass young driver in their hands and are afraid of losing him. If that turned out to be true, however, they'd have a major headache in the relationship with Hamilton - which would inevitably sour to the point of being unmanageable.

I think if Toto has as much faith in Ocon as he makes out he would have been given the Williams seat instead of Russell.

My understanding of the Williams situation was that Toto thought Williams was a no win for Ocon. He was going in against an old injured kubica. Kubica form was unknown. If kubica ended up quicker, it would be career ending stuff. If Ocon was quicker, he was still at the back and only seen to be beating a poor kubica.

chicorytip

H3llR4iser wrote:

The only way I see Wolff deciding to run the risk of putting Esteban in the car is if he SERIOUSLY thinks they have a masterclass young driver in their hands and are afraid of losing him. If that turned out to be true, however, they'd have a major headache in the relationship with Hamilton - which would inevitably sour to the point of being unmanageable.

I think we have seen enough of Ocon to come to the conclusion he is a rather ordinary driver, nothing exceptional. I think Mercedes need a stronger number two than Bottas. I don't think Lewis is particularly bothered who that may be. He is the type to take on all comers and feels confident of beating them. If he had a teammate who would be far more competitive than Bottas currently is that in itself would only motivate him further to improve his already exceptional level of performance. Sainz is looking, by far, the best of any realistic candidates for the job presuming Verstappen either stays with Red Bull or joins Ferrari next year.

El_Duderino 09

chicorytip wrote: »

I think we have seen enough of Ocon to come to the conclusion he is a rather ordinary driver, nothing exceptional. I think Mercedes need a stronger number two than Bottas. I don't think Lewis is particularly bothered who that may be. He is the type to take on all comers and feels confident of beating them. If he had a teammate who would be far more competitive than Bottas currently is that in itself would only motivate him further to improve his already exceptional level of performance. Sainz is looking, by far, the best of any realistic candidates for the job presuming Verstappen either stays with Red Bull or joins Ferrari next year.

What's this now? Sainz and verstappen are midst likely to get the Mercedes drive? I really don't think either is likely to get the seat. I'm pretty sure verstappen was only a rumour snd I've never even heard sainz suggested for the job.

It's between the two Mercedes (Toto's management company?) boys. Bottas or ocon. I think it depends on how long they think Hamilton will stay. If they think he'll probably leave in 2021, then they'd go with icon. Give him a year in the car to become no1 title Challenger in 2021. If they think Hamilton will stay longer then I think they will keep bottas as a long term No 2

chicorytip

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

What's this now? Sainz and verstappen are midst likely to get the Mercedes drive? I really don't think either is likely to get the seat. I'm pretty sure verstappen was only a rumour snd I've never even heard sainz suggested for the job.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

It's between the two Mercedes (Toto's management company?) boys. Bottas or ocon. I think it depends on how long they think Hamilton will stay. If they think he'll probably leave in 2021, then they'd go with icon. Give him a year in the car to become no1 title Challenger in 2021. If they think Hamilton will stay longer then I think they will keep bottas as a long term No 2

My point is neither Bottas nor Ocon are anywhere near good enough for the task. If I were Mercedes, Sainz is exactly the type I would be looking to recruit even if it meant buying out his contract with McLaren.

Faugheen

Honestly don't understand why people are picking on Bottas who is currently second in the drivers championship.

mickdw

Ya if he was doing any better, it would be a problem for mercedes.
Not spinning out in Germany would have been a help but then everyone was off the track that day.