Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

TCP/IP

Anjobe wrote: »

So you condone the arrest and torture of people who criticize F1 online?

I condone sport been used for political purposes.

pyramuid man

Anjobe wrote: »

So you condone the arrest and torture of people who criticize F1 online?

I'm all fairness, this is a thread about f1, not politics. The current affairs / imho forum may offer you a better place to start your conversation about human rights that you care so dearly for.

chicorytip

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

chicorytip wrote: »

It's all about the car though. It's amazing that he can still drive at all considering his disability. Williams knew exactly what he was capable of before they appointed him. They knew that Russell would become the lead driver and were happy enough. I don't think Kubica's sponsorship deal had any bearing on things. The Latifi fellah has big bucks as well but is not well regarded so Bob the Pole is the right man for the foreseeable future. By the way, the Russell Q1 time in Germany was compromised greatly because both Ricciardo and Magnussen, faster cars, aborted their final runs so Russell's finishing position was false. Williams have made only slight progress, still way off the pace.

OK. Just to,clarify, the question was about your expectations of him and whether he's meeting them or not (you asked my expectations and now I'm asking yours).

They didn't hire him as some kind of positive discrimination case who was doing great to even be able to drive again. They hired him for his supposed speed. People talked him up as a brilliant driver before the accident. His legend grew the longer he was out of the car. But the reality is he ISN'T fast NOW. He's being embarrassed by a rookie. The only comparable gap between teammates was gasley to verstappen and look what happened to gasley....

The reality is he is a pay driver. He pays for his seat because Williams needs money and he has $10m to pay for his seat. He's nowhere near keeping his seat on merit.

Yes, I honestly have to say his current level of performance is as I expected it would be. Claire Williams and Kubica himself think likewise, I would imagine. He may improve in the second half of this season and next season if retained. He still has the potential to be quicker if, as I said earlier, he can push the car to it's absolute limit. But, even so, if the car is a complete dog, that won't count for much. His experience is an asset. That's how he managed to bag the point in Germany, taking advantage of Russell's error.

Anjobe

pyramuid man wrote: »

I'm all fairness, this is a thread about f1, not politics. The current affairs / imho forum may offer you a better place to start your conversation about human rights that you care so dearly for.

Well, I didn’t start this particular conversation but I do find the apathy about the issue quite shocking. I would have thought any half decent human would be outraged that people are being imprisoned, tortured, even killed so that their 1 1/2 hours of Sunday afternoon entertainment can go ahead.

El_Duderino 09

chicorytip wrote: »

Yes, I honestly have to say his current level of performance is as I expected it would be. Claire Williams and Kubica himself think likewise, I would imagine. He may improve in the second half of this season and next season if retained. He still has the potential to be quicker if, as I said earlier, he can push the car to it's absolute limit. But, even so, if the car is a complete dog, that won't count for much. His experience is an asset. That's how he managed to bag the point in Germany, taking advantage of Russell's error.

I had no idea yous have such low expectations of kubica. He's probably the slowed driver on the grid. Is that really what you were expecting? The only way I'd hope for a driver to get a seat if I expected them,to be the slowest driver on he grid, is if they were a rookie and a young driver with great potential to improve.

Ah this stuff about the car has to stop. He's in the same car as Russell. Russell rings the car's neck, Russell beats kubica every time. The gap is embarrassing. Russell is a rookie.

What's the point about the car? Kubica would be a better driver in a better car but can't get the best out of a poor car?

chicorytip

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

chicorytip wrote: »

Yes, I honestly have to say his current level of performance is as I expected it would be. Claire Williams and Kubica himself think likewise, I would imagine. He may improve in the second half of this season and next season if retained. He still has the potential to be quicker if, as I said earlier, he can push the car to it's absolute limit. But, even so, if the car is a complete dog, that won't count for much. His experience is an asset. That's how he managed to bag the point in Germany, taking advantage of Russell's error.

I had no idea yous have such low expectations of kubica. He's probably the slowed driver on the grid. Is that really what you were expecting? The only way I'd hope for a driver to get a seat if I expected them,to be the slowest driver on he grid, is if they were a rookie and a young driver with great potential to improve.

Ah this stuff about the car has to stop. He's in the same car as Russell. Russell rings the car's neck, Russell beats kubica every time. The gap is embarrassing. Russell is a rookie.

What's the point about the car? Kubica would be a better driver in a better car but can't get the best out of a poor car?

... but Williams are still cut adrift at the back of the grid. P19&20. The gap to those in front has barely narrowed. If Russell were finishing regularly in the points and Kubica still languishing at the rear serious questions would be asked alright. He would be sacked. If both were driving Mercs I would bet Kubica would be doing a better job than Bottas is.

El_Duderino 09

chicorytip wrote: »

... but Williams are still cut adrift at the back of the grid. P19&20. The gap to those in front has barely narrowed. If Russell were finishing regularly in the points and Kubica still languishing at the rear serious questions would be asked alright. He would be sacked. If both were driving Mercs I would bet Kubica would be doing a better job than Bottas is.

Kubica is faster than bottas? Based on what? If Russell is 0.45 of a second faster than kubica. And Hamilton is 0.2 faster than Bottas (both according to the statistic published by Andrew benson 2 races ago so it doesn't include the massive quali gap since then)

And you reckon kubica is faster than bottas (let's say 1tenth). That means Russell is about 0.35 seconds a lap faster than Hamilton in his rookie year! Absolute fantasy stuff.

How do you explain the gap between Russell and kubica (0.45 of a second)?

mickdw

chicorytip wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

chicorytip wrote: »

Yes, I honestly have to say his current level of performance is as I expected it would be. Claire Williams and Kubica himself think likewise, I would imagine. He may improve in the second half of this season and next season if retained. He still has the potential to be quicker if, as I said earlier, he can push the car to it's absolute limit. But, even so, if the car is a complete dog, that won't count for much. His experience is an asset. That's how he managed to bag the point in Germany, taking advantage of Russell's error.

I had no idea yous have such low expectations of kubica. He's probably the slowed driver on the grid. Is that really what you were expecting? The only way I'd hope for a driver to get a seat if I expected them,to be the slowest driver on he grid, is if they were a rookie and a young driver with great potential to improve.

Ah this stuff about the car has to stop. He's in the same car as Russell. Russell rings the car's neck, Russell beats kubica every time. The gap is embarrassing. Russell is a rookie.

What's the point about the car? Kubica would be a better driver in a better car but can't get the best out of a poor car?

... but Williams are still cut adrift at the back of the grid. P19&20. The gap to those in front has barely narrowed. If Russell were finishing regularly in the points and Kubica still languishing at the rear serious questions would be asked alright. He would be sacked. If both were driving Mercs I would bet Kubica would be doing a better job than Bottas is.

Much as I was a kubica fan and hoped he did well, he has not shown at any stage that he is getting near the ultimate pace of the car. Bottas is beating Hamilton to pole occasionally.
Disgraceful comment really.

El_Duderino 09

mickdw wrote: »

Much as I was a kubica fan and hoped he did well, he has not shown at any stage that he is getting near the ultimate pace of the car. Bottas is beating Hamilton to pole occasionally.
Disgraceful comment really.

I think anyone with a soul was hoping for kubica to be back to his best and get offers for a better seat next year. But the evidence is too strong to ignore. He might be replaced already this season if he wasn't a pay driver ($10m is a lot and Williams is really for struggling for money).

Cork Trucker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think anyone with a soul was hoping for kubica to be back to his best and get offers for a better seat next year. But the evidence is too strong to ignore. He might be replaced already this season if he wasn't a pay driver ($10m is a lot and Williams is really for struggling for money).

I don't see him staying at Williams in 2020, but is the F1 door going to be firmly shut on him this time? As mentioned, Money talks but can it talk enough with teams other than Williams.

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I don't see him staying at Williams in 2020, but is the F1 door going to be firmly shut on him this time? As mentioned, Money talks but can it talk enough with teams other than Williams.

I'd agree that be probably won't get a drive next year. He's 34 which is usually past peak age for a driver. His only chance is if Williams need his money. I don't think any other team is desperate enough for money. Sauber used to be always on the edge of bankruptcy but the alpha money will surely keep them stable dot now. Force India has Stroll money now. HAAS has not needed pay drivers so far.

I'd say it's Williams or bust.

Cork Trucker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd agree that be probably won't get a drive next year. He's 34 which is usually past peak age for a driver. His only chance is if Williams need his money. I don't think any other team is desperate enough for money. Sauber used to be always on the edge of bankruptcy but the alpha money will surely keep them stable dot now. Force India has Stroll money now. HAAS has not needed pay drivers so far.

I'd say it's Williams or bust.

Aye, i can't think of any other team on the grid bar Williams who would need it. He'll be 35 in December as well, unless he gets back in touch with the Ferrari contacts who wanted him as development driver this year, they might well place him in the Alfa next to Raikkonen,you'd get long odds on it though, lets face it, Giovinazzi is unlikely to continue next year if he keeps up the way he's going, Raikkonen has had the boy for breakfast already. Mick Schumacher will get Raikkonen's seat in the Alfa for the 2021 season as i don't see him carrying on beyond 41 which is what he will be at the end of his contract.

pjohnson

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Aye, i can't think of any other team on the grid bar Williams who would need it. He'll be 35 in December as well, unless he gets back in touch with the Ferrari contacts who wanted him as development driver this year, they might well place him in the Alfa next to Raikkonen,you'd get long odds on it though, lets face it, Giovinazzi is unlikely to continue next year if he keeps up the way he's going, Raikkonen has had the boy for breakfast already. Mick Schumacher will get Raikkonen's seat in the Alfa for the 2021 season as i don't see him carrying on beyond 41 which is what he will be at the end of his contract.

Wehrlein would be most likely to get the Alfa seat next year at least of the current Ferrari drivers unless Alfa pick up Hulkenberg if he leaves Renault.

Cork Trucker

pjohnson wrote: »

Wehrlein would be most likely to get the Alfa seat next year at least of the current Ferrari drivers unless Alfa pick up Hulkenberg if he leaves Renault.

I don't see Wehrlein getting the seat, Hulkenberg i'm unsure on.

pjohnson

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I don't see Wehrlein getting the seat, Hulkenberg i'm unsure on.

Wehrlein is the only driver from Ferrari that'd be eligible. Hartley has way too many commitments to do a F1 season again, Rigon hasn't drove an F1 car in years. Fuoco rejoined this year to meet the young driver criteria. Ilott and Schumacher arent ready for F1 next year.

If they look outside of Ferrari they might get other options like Hulk maybe Bottas if he gets dumped for Ocon in the Merc or Perez might be freed from Racing Point if they go all Canadian etc.

flazio

Haas might be short a few bob soon. We're expecting that Rich Energy to fizzle out pretty shortly.

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

Haas might be short a few bob soon. We're expecting that Rich Energy to fizzle out pretty shortly.

But but they had a personal guarantee of looooadsa scrilla from none other than William Storey. So they can take that to the bank.

Yeah fair point they might be a long way behind their expected income. It depends though. Kubica is miles off the pace. It makes no difference to Williams as they're unlikely to finish anywhere except bang last. They could put my grandmother in the car (God rest her) and as long as she doesn't crash, they won't lose anything and they gain kubicas $10m. But haas are in a fight for Constructors points so I doubt the $10 would make up for all the points they would lose byhaving such a slow driver.

I'd say he's out at the end of the year. If Williams keep him it's a sign of 2 things.
1, they really, really need money.
2 they expect to be at the very back again next year so it does t matter how slow their driver is.

Massive irony is that kubica has Williams only point this season.

chicorytip

Cork Trucker wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd agree that be probably won't get a drive next year. He's 34 which is usually past peak age for a driver. His only chance is if Williams need his money. I don't think any other team is desperate enough for money. Sauber used to be always on the edge of bankruptcy but the alpha money will surely keep them stable dot now. Force India has Stroll money now. HAAS has not needed pay drivers so far.

I'd say it's Williams or bust.

Aye, i can't think of any other team on the grid bar Williams who would need it. He'll be 35 in December as well, unless he gets back in touch with the Ferrari contacts who wanted him as development driver this year, they might well place him in the Alfa next to Raikkonen,you'd get long odds on it though, lets face it, Giovinazzi is unlikely to continue next year if he keeps up the way he's going, Raikkonen has had the boy for breakfast already. Mick Schumacher will get Raikkonen's seat in the Alfa for the 2021 season as i don't see him carrying on beyond 41 which is what he will be at the end of his contract.

Ferrari are hoping Giovinazzi will come good so he will stay. He is a lot better than his performances to date suggest. He's Italian and Alfa/Sauber is Ferrari backed. Raikkonen may well decide to quit this year rather than spend another season as an also ran. If Schumacher Jr. gets the nod it will be for sentimental reasons alone. He displays none of the talent of his father.

rock22

TCP/IP wrote: »

Bahrain GP will continue absolutely no reason to cancel it. Leave politics out of F1 or we won't have a single place to race.
F1 is big business more worrying is the continuing green agenda that our new owners are showing hell even Toto said the current generation has no interest in V10 engines and are more interested in sustainability.
How long till petrol is banned in F1. The world has gone mad I tell you.

I'm appalled at this attitude.
Human rights are basic, and no activity should be immune to respecting them. But ut us the reason tnat we had to rely on individual workers to boycott South African oranges when those 'business' interested could only argue about their right to make money.

I am surprised that companies like Mercedes , Renault , RedBull etc want to be associated with such regimes.
I suppose F1 will not listen but local distributors and agents for these brands might be more uncomfortable about the links

El_Duderino 09

rock22 wrote: »

I'm appalled at this attitude.
Human rights are basic, and no activity should be immune to respecting them. But ut us the reason tnat we had to rely on individual workers to boycott South African oranges when those 'business' interested could only argue about their right to make money.

I am surprised that companies like Mercedes , Renault , RedBull etc want to be associated with such regimes.
I suppose F1 will not listen but local distributors and agents for these brands might be more uncomfortable about the links

Yeah I'd agree. F1 doesn't have to take a massive political statement, it just doesn't have to choose to go to places with terrible human rights. Spain was about to drop off the calendar without any political hoopla.

The notion of Saudi Arabia is beyond the pale for me.

meeeeh

That's the thing. When countries with racing history, world championship winners, other racing series events are discarded because oil billions can and want to pay more is a bit sad.

El_Duderino 09

meeeeh wrote: »

That's the thing. When countries with racing history, world championship winners, other racing series events are discarded because oil billions can and want to pay more is a bit sad.

Yes but that catalonia circuit was shyte. Consistently shyte races year after year. I would have dropped it years ago if I had the power. I wouldn't be hostage to tradition. But f1 doesn't have to go to the worst countries.

pjohnson

China, Britain, Abu Dhabi, Mexico, all be removed aswell? What countries be left to host F1 then?

TCP/IP

pjohnson wrote: »

China, Britain, Abu Dhabi, Mexico, all be removed as well? What countries be left to host F1 then?

If we continue on this theme then we should remove Russia, USA, Azerbaijan, Brazilian, Abu Dhabi while we are at it. Complete nonsense it's racing go and enjoy the show.

They should remove the Circuits de Catalunya and don't get me started on the worst track on the calendar, Circuit Paul Ricard that turd should only be used for testing nothing else awful track.

Cork Trucker

TCP/IP wrote: »

If we continue on this theme then we should remove Russia, USA, Azerbaijan, Brazilian, Abu Dhabi while we are at it. Complete nonsense it's racing go and enjoy the show.

They should remove the Circuits de Catalunya and don't get me started on the worst track on the calendar, Circuit Paul Ricard that turd should only be used for testing nothing else awful track.

Other tracks that would be great to see back on the calendar would be Imola, Adelaide,Estoril,Jerez,Magny Cours,Detroit.

TCP/IP

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Other tracks that would be great to see back on the calendar would be Imola, Adelaide,Estoril,Jerez,Magny Cours,Detroit.

A Formula 1 Grand Prix at Kyalami would be amazing as well to have a race in Africa then it truly is a global sport.

Cork Trucker

TCP/IP wrote: »

A Formula 1 Grand Prix at Kyalami would be amazing as well to have a race in Africa then it truly is a global sport.

Forgot about that one considering it was 26 years ago, the owners are interested in bringing it back though.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143551/kyalami-owner-committed-to-hosting-f1-race-again

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Other tracks that would be great to see back on the calendar would be Imola, Adelaide,Estoril,Jerez,Magny Cours,Detroit.

Would they be great race tracks or should they come back for Nostalgia purposes? F1 is prone to lapsing into auto-erotic nostalgia and completely forgetting about the actual race. Monaco is the best example. Boring race unless it rains (which makes any race interesting). The coverage sounds like a fashions/celebrity news show on daytime TV. And they refer to it as "the jewel in the crown" of the f1 calendar. And a casual fan watches it and comes away with the impression that f1 is boring and up its own hole.

rock22

pjohnson wrote: »

China, Britain, Abu Dhabi, Mexico, all be removed aswell? What countries be left to host F1 then?

F1 is courting these regimes that's the point.

H3llR4iser

pjohnson wrote: »

China, Britain, Abu Dhabi, Mexico, all be removed aswell? What countries be left to host F1 then?

TCP/IP wrote: »

If we continue on this theme then we should remove Russia, USA, Azerbaijan, Brazilian, Abu Dhabi while we are at it.

You guys forgot Italy in that list...