Donegal Asylum Centre Torched

Grayson

Rennaws wrote: »

I agree but there's a whole world of a difference between saying you'll give up a room to a family of Syrian refugees and then actually doing it.

I also do quite a bit of charity work but I wouldn't have immigrants of any variety living in my home.

I completely understand. I would but that's the person I am. I understand people who would help in other-ways. I have a friend who's an english teacher and she volunteers two nights a week to teach english to refugees. Neither of us could do that because we don't have the skills (I'm assuming you don't. You might, I don't know so if I'm wrong, sorry).

Likewise people have different comfort levels.

Honestly though, we need to do more for refugees. Someone coming from syria for example doesn't just need 3 meals a day and a bed. many need counseling because of what they've gone through.

armaghlad

Kivaro wrote: »

I have yet to meet an Irish man or woman, who gets up early and commutes to a job where after a long week of work they are just about able to pay for the mortgage/rent/child care costs/healthcare/insurance/household bills etc., and doesn't mind if a portion of the taxes that they pay will be used to support Nigerian or Algerian welfare tourists (i.e. skipped other countries to get to our overly generous welfare state).
Those Irish people I've met who espouse supporting the world's needy by bringing them to Ireland, have never worked real jobs or just do not work.

It’s funny. There are lots of things my taxes pay for that I really don’t care for, in fact, I downright resent.

The main one would be the money that goes towards the English royal family, the biggest benefit frauds in the UK. As I live in the north, I also have to pay taxes which fund the British military, which is quite sickening, only last week I watched a colleague call in to work before going to a high court inquest (almost 50 years later) to find out why the government shot his grandmother in the back.

I also pay taxes to fund things like the Orange Order and uniforms and instruments for loyalist flute bands. It wasn’t that long ago either that I helped fund the union jacks and red white and blue bunting that went up in my (nationalist) town centre.

I pay taxes for infrastructure, when a quick look at a road/rail map of NI shows that the Unionist dominated “east of the Bann” is where all major infrastructure is located (they want a bridge to Scotland which is virtually impossible, but won’t build a motorway to Dublin from Derry or Belfast).

So I can laugh at people in the free state when they wet themselves over 100 Syrians or whatever coming here and at the same time use this as justification for a suspected arson attack. It actually wouldn’t surprise me either if the culprits were boards.ie contributors. Such a right-wing site if the poll is anything to go by

Grayson

Zorya wrote: »

You think that the hotel accommodation is only going to be for a couple of months?

No, I said should be, not will be.

As for the rest, you can make blanket judgement about people all you want but that's not relevant. You're making a judgement about a load of people, based on your own bias and without any regard for an individual.

Biology eh? What you're trying to say is that men from syria are all predators / potential predators and it's because of biology. I'm going to let one of the alt-righters take that one. Should be funny to see them argue with you about it.

Anyone else here want to argue this? Place a man in a strange town and he becomes a bit rapey?

Zorya

Grayson wrote: »

No, I said should be, not will be.

As for the rest, you can make blanket judgement about people all you want but that's not relevant. You're making a judgement about a load of people, based on your own bias and without any regard for an individual.

Biology eh? What you're trying to say is that men from syria are all predators / potential predators and it's because of biology. I'm going to let one of the alt-righters take that one. Should be funny to see them argue with you about it.

Anyone else here want to argue this? Place a man in a strange town and he becomes a bit rapey?

Yeah, cos that's what I said :rolleyes:

Place a load of young fellas into a small village, with nothing to do all day, no family structures or disciplines, and from cultures that do not have the same attitude towards women and girls and yes, there are likely to be sexual violence issues. Read a bit about what has been happening in Sweden, Germany, France, Italy for the last few years, before you come along saying I am unreasonably biased. There are cultural issues - fact. To deny and obfuscate and shoot people down who say so is the height of authoritarian naivety.

Grayson

Zorya wrote: »

Yeah, cos that's what I said :rolleyes:

Place a load of young fellas into a small village, with nothing to do all day, no family structures or disciplines, and from cultures that do not have the same attitude towards women and girls and yes, there are likely to be sexual violence issues. Read a bit about what has been happening in Sweden, Germany, France, Italy for the last few years, before you come along saying I am unreasonably biased. There are cultural issues - fact. To deny and obfuscate and shoot people down who say so is the height of authoritarian naivety.

You specifically mentioned shale fields. And you said that if you put a hundred irish lads into a similar situation the same thing would happen. Now you did go on a bit of a ramble about muslims but your statement that if you put 100 Irish guys into a village you'd get rapes still stands.

Graces7

Zorya wrote: »

Yeah, cos that's what I said :rolleyes:

Place a load of young fellas into a small village, with nothing to do all day, no family structures or disciplines, and from cultures that do not have the same attitude towards women and girls and yes, there are likely to be sexual violence issues. Read a bit about what has been happening in Sweden, Germany, France, Italy for the last few years, before you come along saying I am unreasonably biased. There are cultural issues - fact. To deny and obfuscate and shoot people down who say so is the height of authoritarian naivety.

are you saying then that Irish men are never rapists? that is clearly not so so what cultural issue is to blame for that?

_Kaiser_

I don't agree with arson and whoever is behind it needs to be caught and prosecuted, but I think that it's pretty clear at this stage that - despite what the mainstream media coverage would have us believe - a lot of people in this country (particularly where these centres are being established) have concerns about this current approach by Government.

In all of these threads and reports (which is more evidence that it's a significant issue to many), I have yet to read a valid reason for taking in dozens/hundreds/thousands of unskilled economic migrants (the "refugee" tag is quite often a smokescreen given where they're coming from) who can't support themselves, having nothing to offer from a employment perspective, and who bring the same (by our standards) outdated, incompatible cultural and religious beliefs they claim to be fleeing with them.

We didn't cause the problems in their homelands, we already (as a country and individually) give hundreds of millions of euro annually in foreign aid to support people like them, and we don't have the resources, infrastructure or responsibility to solve all their problems. We have more than enough problems in the country as it is without importing others.

Even where genuine actual refugees are concerned, we should only be supporting them until they can go home - none of this resettling them here permanently and inviting all their relatives to join them and if they fail the asylum review, they should get one appeal, and then deported if rejected again.

If the Government and media and noisy twitter types keep ignoring the concerns and opinions of the people, then we WILL end up with a lot more social and security problems than a burned out hotel. We've seen it already throughout Europe and it's idiotic to think it'll be any different in Ireland.

Zorya

Grayson wrote: »

You specifically mentioned shale fields. And you said that if you put a hundred irish lads into a similar situation the same thing would happen. Now you did go on a bit of a ramble about muslims but your statement that if you put 100 Irish guys into a village you'd get rapes still stands.

There are very high levels of rape around shale fields. Fact. Regarding Irish lads we have a different culture re women, thankfully, although there are areas in Australia where Irish are no longer welcome due to bad behaviour, drunkeness, even robbery.

I spent a few years traveling around India, Turkey and North Africa. It was the local women, girls, hostel-keepers, restaurant owners, hoteliers, etc who would warn foreign women regularly to be careful. It was a constant feature of daily life - the warnings, the gropings, the constant unwanted attention from groups of men and boys, and then in some cases the rapes, of women I met along the way. The local women stayed off the streets unless necessary to go out and usually went in groups or with male relations. There are great people in these places, but there are massive cultural differences that cause huge problems - you can deny them all you like and accuse me of whatever, but it is a fact I have seen again and again with my own eyes.

Grayson

Zorya wrote: »

There are very high levels of rape around shale fields. Fact. Regarding Irish lads we have a different culture re women, thankfully, although there are areas in Australia where Irish are no longer welcome due to bad behaviour, drunkeness, even robbery.

I spent a few years traveling around India, Turkey and North Africa. It was the local women, girls, hostel-keepers, restaurant owners, hoteliers, etc who would warn foreign women regularly to be careful. It was a constant feature of daily life - the warnings, the gropings, the constant unwanted attention from groups of men and boys, and then in some cases the rapes, of women I met along the way. The local women stayed off the streets unless necessary to go out and usually went in groups or with male relations. There are great people in these places, but there are massive cultural differences that cause huge problems - you can deny them all you like and accuse me of whatever, but it is a fact I have seen again and again with my own eyes.

But you said put 100 irish lads in a place and there'd be rapes. Are you backpedaling on that now? And the population of shale fields aren't from the middle east.

Gravelly

Grayson wrote: »

But you said put 100 irish lads in a place and there'd be rapes. Are you backpedaling on that now? And the population of shale fields aren't from the middle east.

Why don't you argue the merits or otherwise of that posters actual posts, rather than this silly posturing? It is making you look ridiculous, and slightly hysterical.

Zorya

Graces7 wrote: »

are you saying then that Irish men are never rapists? that is clearly not so so what cultural issue is to blame for that?

People are really playing the Oh My Gosh wide eyed did you dare say that? card. I am not falling for it. Because it is politically correct bullsh1t.

58% of all sex offenders convicted in Sweden in the past 5 years were foreign born. 58% !!!! How much more in your face do you want the facts?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764

Zorya

Grayson wrote: »

But you said put 100 irish lads in a place and there'd be rapes. Are you backpedaling on that now? And the population of shale fields aren't from the middle east.

I actually don't think there would be as many rapes potentially because culturally Irish men do have a level of respect for women that does not view them as chattels or as fair game if unaccompanied. So, to that extent it was a poor analogy on my behalf. But there probably would be some increase in social problems, like drunkeness or vandalism or anti-social behaviour, because cooping young lads up in a remote location with almost nothing to do all day and night, at the best of times, is not a good idea.

But you conveniently ignore the points i have made about levels of sexual violence actually on the ground in these places, and the crime stats as they are showing up in Europe since migration. So now that I have back pedalled on that point, deal with the others.

PlaneSpeeking

Graces7 wrote: »

are you saying then that Irish men are never rapists? that is clearly not so so what cultural issue is to blame for that?

I think you know full well there is a vast difference between a country like ours where sadly people can be victims of rape - and a culture/religion where women are seen as fair game.

CF: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429423/Woman-35-raped-undergoing-surgery-haemorrhoids-hospital-Pakistan.html

Sick sick people.

joe40

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

PlaneSpeeking

joe40 wrote: »

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

Scaremongering is stoking up fear where none need exist.

This is not that.

Zorya

If these places are so desperate that young men are fleeing for their lives, risking themselves across desert and sea to escape some barbarity or horror, why are they leaving their mothers and sisters behind them?

These are mostly economic migrants. If they have qualifications for positions we need workers for, then let them apply through the relevant channels, just like I would have to do if I wanted to go to Canada or Australia or America. Economic migrants are not entitled to be housed, fed, given money or welfare in any country they arrive in. They support themselves by working. That's the way economic migration goes.

Refugees fleeing war or danger en famille is a completely different story and it is sinister that any equivalence between the two is being made by the government. It actually places those true refugees at a disadvantage to be competing against what are basically chancers.

Odhinn

Zorya wrote: »

If these places are so desperate that young men are fleeing for their lives, risking themselves across desert and sea to escape some barbarity or horror, why are they leaving their mothers and sisters behind them?

..............

Men always go first and bring the others after.

Gravelly

Odhinn wrote: »

Men always go first and bring the others after.

:rolleyes:

In every other conflict in history, the men fought on until the women and children could escape. Somehow our new "refugees" have turned that on it's head!

MemphisBelle1

joe40 wrote: »

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

I'm sure there was a Joe40 saying this in Rochdale 50 years ago

Odhinn

Gravelly wrote: »

:rolleyes:

In every other conflict in history, the men fought on until the women and children could escape. Somehow our new "refugees" have turned that on it's head!

You're confusing being a member of the male population with being a member of one or other of the conflicting parties. In the American war of independence for instance, a good 40% of the population remained neutral on the whole issue.



And of course there are others coming from areas other than Syria.

Gravelly

Odhinn wrote: »

You're confusing being a member of the male population with being a member of one or other of the conflicting parties. In the American war of independence for instance, a good 40% of the population remained neutral on the whole issue.

And of course there are others coming from areas other than Syria.

No I'm not. You said:

Men always go first and bring the others after.

Which is patently untrue, regardless of involvement in a conflict (which the vast majority of the "refugees" coming here aren't - they are economic migrants, who should have no right to asylum). In every other conflict in history, the men sent the women and children to safety, they didn't run off and let them fend for themselves in the "conflict zones".

Odhinn

Gravelly wrote: »

No I'm not. You said:



Which is patently untrue, regardless of involvement in a conflict (which the vast majority of the "refugees" coming here aren't - they are economic migrants, who should have no right to asylum). In every other conflict in history, the men sent the women and children to safety, they didn't run off and let them fend for themselves in the "conflict zones".

I'd say you need to read up on the subject

https://www.nap.edu/read/5985/chapter/9#301

http://time.com/4122186/syrian-refugees-donald-trump-young-men/

Gravelly

Odhinn wrote: »

I'd say you need to read up on the subject

https://www.nap.edu/read/5985/chapter/9#301

http://time.com/4122186/syrian-refugees-donald-trump-young-men/

Nice try.

Neither of those links back up your assertion - at least the first one doesn't - the second appears to be hundreds of pages long, which I have no intention of reading to prove you wrong.

There is no conflict in history where the men fled to safety, leaving the women and children to fend for themselves.

Odhinn

Gravelly wrote: »

Nice try.

Neither of those links back up your assertion - at least the first one doesn't - the second appears to be hundreds of pages long, which I have no intention of reading to prove you wrong.

There is no conflict in history where the men fled to safety, leaving the women and children to fend for themselves.

You're mischarecterising the whole thing, tbh. And again, not all are coming from Syria.

Gravelly

Odhinn wrote: »

You're mischarecterising the whole thing, tbh. And again, not all are coming from Syria.

I'm mischaracterising? Physician, heal thyself.

I didn't mention Syria, so that's yet another of your strawmen.

malinheader

joe40 wrote: »

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

And the disheartening thing about this is how many of the locals will be arguing among themselves now. A majority feared to open there mouth incase there classed as being racist and others welcoming them with open arms not bothered what other people in the community feel. This is a total disaster putting 100 strangers into a community of 1300. It ain't going to work.

Geuze

RandomName2 wrote: »

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

Indeed.

I don't think these are genuine refugees, though, are they?

I think they are asylum-seekers?

Most AS are bogus, this is well known.

Geuze

Grayson wrote: »

The guy who did this, and anyone who think he was right to do it, are complete scum.

I condemn this arson act.

I also condemn the hundreds/thousands of bogus AS who enter Ireland illegally.

Many enter from the UK.

Bear in mind that far from fleeing persecution, they have arrived from the UK, where they have over-stayed their visa.

WinnyThePoo

Geuze wrote: »

RandomName2 wrote: »

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

Indeed.

I don't think these are genuine refugees, though, are they?

I think they are asylum-seekers?

Most AS are bogus, this is well known.

Do you have data to back up your claims?

I have no doubt you have data to back your opinion.

Odhinn

Gravelly wrote: »

I'm mischaracterising? Physician, heal thyself.

I didn't mention Syria, so that's yet another of your strawmen.

You keep mentioning conflict and Syria is a conflict that has generated millions of refugees. If you want to avoid being mistaken you might be more specific in where you're referring to.