Donegal Asylum Centre Torched

Richard Hillman

Operation Re-Education is now in flow. The media are running wild with this "Inisowen Together" group, as they hand pick coherent migrants to speak and gain media attention for everyone of their meetings. A group that nobody knew existed until yesterday. But now they are media darlings, trailblazers, brave.

Now the media will hand pick residents for interviews who are desperate for Diversity in their town.

In 1 weeks time, there will be videos of the towns folk singing kumbaya and leading the resistance against Trump.

Everybody has been Re-Educated

The Bishop Basher

Grayson wrote: »

Contrats. And I'm not being sarcastic, I mean it. It's amazing how few people have condemned this. There seems to be an opinion amongst many that it was a perfectly rational and expected thing to do.

As stated below, it's a given that most people condemn this..

But ignoring the reasons as to why it happens serves nobody..

Least of all our new economic migrant friends..

The Bishop Basher

2011 wrote: »

I think we can safely assume that his motivation was to turn a loss making business into a profit making business. As there is nothing to suggest that this has changed why would he regret it? Unless you think he would be worried about the threat of a large insurance payout due to an arson attack? It’s win win for the owner.

We know his motivation was profit but he won’t make much profit from the charred embers of a burnt out hotel and I don’t fancy his chances insuring against it happening in the future either..

10000maniacs

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locals-rally-to-support-asylum-seekers-after-arson-at-hotel-due-to-house-them-37564838.html

Well done to the locals who gathered to show their support and from such a broad spectrum of local society.

I hope the Hotel owner, who was injured in the attack makes a speedy recovery in hospital.

I agree that torching the place was wrong. And they should be brought to justice.
However from past experience, you can't rely on the Indo to give a balanced view of the situation. The local counselor and the schoolteacher have organised a "Failte" group, but how do the majority of people in the town really feel?
Are there enough resources in the area to cater for these migrants? What is the schooling situation like?

Kivaro

10000maniacs wrote: »

I agree that torching the place was wrong. And they should be brought to justice.
However from past experience, you can't rely on the Indo to give a balanced view of the situation. The local counselor and the schoolteacher have organised a "Failte" group, but how do the majority of people in the town really feel?
Are there enough resources in the area to cater for these migrants? What is the schooling situation like?

We are being told by the liberals that:
"if people have to queue a bit longer at the doctor's surgery or make room in the classrooms for more children, it's a small price to pay compared to what the people seeking asylum have gone through."
What is not mentioned is how the people who go to work in the morning will have to pay for these people seeking asylum and the multitudes of their family members who will show up when the leave to remain has been exhausted over the years and they are allowed to stay due to "humanitarian" grounds.

What is amazing is the claim by Irish media/liberals is that 100% of asylum claims are legitimate, instead of the reality that the vast majority are bogus.
If a worker asks a question about the legitimacy and corresponding cost of an asylum claim, then he/she is a racist.

suicide_circus

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Operation Re-Education is now in flow. The media are running wild with this "Inisowen Together" group, as they hand pick coherent migrants to speak and gain media attention for everyone of their meetings. A group that nobody knew existed until yesterday. But now they are media darlings, trailblazers, brave.

Now the media will hand pick residents for interviews who are desperate for Diversity in their town.

In 1 weeks time, there will be videos of the towns folk singing kumbaya and leading the resistance against Trump.

Everybody has been Re-Educated

don't drink the Kool-Aid

Happy4all

baldbear wrote: »

Stop moving these poor asylum seekers to kips like Longford, Moville, Rooskey, ballaghadereen where there is nothing for them.

I'm from Longford and it has become a dumping ground. It has a high number of travellers & high rate of social welfare recipients.

Adding 77 to Longford makes no sense.

Is Moville a kip? Spent sometime there and found it quiet nice.

MrMusician18

10000maniacs wrote: »

I agree that torching the place was wrong. And they should be brought to justice.
However from past experience, you can't rely on the Indo to give a balanced view of the situation. The local counselor and the schoolteacher have organised a "Failte" group, but how do the majority of people in the town really feel?
Are there enough resources in the area to cater for these migrants? What is the schooling situation like?

Who knows what way this will pan out. You can look to the past for clues. High handed government imposing change and splitting the community, complete with direct action has more than an echo of similarly to the "Battle of Baltinglass" in the 1950s.

In a post Casey Ireland, you'll see FF shift to capture those unhappy about this. The Brexit bonhomie at the moment won't last, this will be a new year election issue.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Grayson wrote: »

Are you actually saying that the asshole who torched a refugee centre, with the owner and his daughter inside, isn't a racist?



Contrats. And I'm not being sarcastic, I mean it. It's amazing how few people have condemned this. There seems to be an opinion amongst many that it was a perfectly rational and expected thing to do.

Let's just sum this up. Some racist fcuker (and yes they were racist) decided to torch a building with people inside it. Yet, here we are are pages on and there's been remarkably few people who are condemning it. Rather they are explaining that it's a natural reaction.

The guy who did this, and anyone who think he was right to do it, are complete scum.

I know. There’s two separate issues here.

1) The placing of asylum seekers in small towns. That deserves discussion. I don’t judge people who have misgivings.

2) That an arson attack was carried out. Whoever did that is either a scumbag or has mental health issues. Either way, it can’t be rationalised as an understandable action. Nope, sorry, arson is never justified.

2011

Rennaws wrote: »

We know his motivation was profit but he won’t make much profit from the charred embers of a burnt out hotel

That’s what insurance is for.

and I don’t fancy his chances insuring against it happening in the future either..

Insurance policy would have been in place altready. All the recent events will do at worst is increase the costs for policy renewal due to a change in risk profile in which case the tab will be picked up by the tax payer. So as I said win win for the owner.

Grayson

Happy4all wrote: »

Is Moville a kip? Spent sometime there and found it quiet nice.

I spent 4 months in greencastle years ago and I found the whole area to be lovely.

MrMusician18

2011 wrote: »

That’s what insurance is for.



Insurance policy would have been in place altready. All the recent events will do at worst is increase the costs for policy renewal due to a change in risk profile in which case the tab will be picked up by the tax payer. So as I said win win for the owner.

he either goes ahead and risks this happening again or reverts to his old business as hotelier. Hotels that don't have the support of the local community don't survive generally.

I suspect the attackers will have won this, but the community will have to live with the burnt out hotel to remind themselves of what they've done.

Kivaro

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Operation Re-Education is now in flow. The media are running wild with this "Inisowen Together" group, as they hand pick coherent migrants to speak and gain media attention for everyone of their meetings. A group that nobody knew existed until yesterday. But now they are media darlings, trailblazers, brave.

Now the media will hand pick residents for interviews who are desperate for Diversity in their town.

In 1 weeks time, there will be videos of the towns folk singing kumbaya and leading the resistance against Trump.

Everybody has been Re-Educated

One would wonder if the majority of these open-the-doors-to-the-needy-of-the-world residents actually work. Looking at photos/news reports of the welcoming residents, the demographic looks similar. You can also see it on threads like this, where the vast majority of posters demanding that our taxes and land are given to people from Albania, Georgia, Pakistan, Nigeria etc. who want to avail of the generous welfare services that exist in Ireland, are also on welfare, or are "professional" students, or have some skin in the game e.g. work for NGOs or are aligned with liberal/leftist political parties.

Grayson

Kivaro wrote: »

One would wonder if the majority of these open-the-doors-to-the-needy-of-the-world residents actually work. Looking at photos/news reports of the welcoming residents, the demographic looks similar. You can also see it on threads like this, where the vast majority of posters demanding that our taxes and land are given to people from Albania, Georgia, Pakistan, Nigeria etc. who want to avail of the generous welfare services that exist in Ireland, are also on welfare, or are "professional" students, or have some skin in the game e.g. work for NGOs or are aligned with liberal/leftist political parties.

There's a conspiracy theory. Absolutely zero evidence to support it but sure, go ahead.

Edgware

Kivaro wrote: »

We are being told by the liberals that:
"if people have to queue a bit longer at the doctor's surgery or make room in the classrooms for more children, it's a small price to pay compared to what the people seeking asylum have gone through."
What is not mentioned is how the people who go to work in the morning will have to pay for these people seeking asylum and the multitudes of their family members who will show up when the leave to remain has been exhausted over the years and they are allowed to stay due to "humanitarian" grounds.

What is amazing is the claim by Irish media/liberals is that 100% of asylum claims are legitimate, instead of the reality that the vast majority are bogus.
If a worker asks a question about the legitimacy and corresponding cost of an asylum claim, then he/she is a racist.

Where are all the people who were queuing up to tell Joe Duffy that they had spare rooms and would love to take in some Syrian refugees?
Where were they when Irish travellers were looking for accommodation?

Grayson

Edgware wrote: »

Where are all the people who were queuing up to tell Joe Duffy that they had spare rooms and would love to take in some Syrian refugees?
Where were they when Irish travellers were looking for accommodation?

My mum volunteered. I should be buying a house in the next year or two and I have no problem volunteering then. (I currently have a tiny one roomed apt that honestly would have difficulty hosting a hamster so it's just not possible now).

There's an idea that people aren't altruistic. Some people seem to think that the idea that someone would house a refugee is crazy. It's not. there are loads of kind hearted people who do go well out of their way to help people.

Kivaro

Grayson wrote: »

There's a conspiracy theory. Absolutely zero evidence to support it but sure, go ahead.

I have yet to meet an Irish man or woman, who gets up early and commutes to a job where after a long week of work they are just about able to pay for the mortgage/rent/child care costs/healthcare/insurance/household bills etc., and doesn't mind if a portion of the taxes that they pay will be used to support Nigerian or Algerian welfare tourists (i.e. skipped other countries to get to our overly generous welfare state).
Those Irish people I've met who espouse supporting the world's needy by bringing them to Ireland, have never worked real jobs or just do not work.

The Bishop Basher

2011 wrote: »

Insurance policy would have been in place altready. All the recent events will do at worst is increase the costs for policy renewal due to a change in risk profile in which case the tab will be picked up by the tax payer. So as I said win win for the owner.

We don't know increased insurance costs will be picked up by the tax payer but to be fair it wouldn't surprise me..

Grayson wrote: »

My mum volunteered. I should be buying a house in the next year or two and I have no problem volunteering then. (I currently have a tiny one roomed apt that honestly would have difficulty hosting a hamster so it's just not possible now).

You've just lost any credibility you had with this post imo.

Did your mum actually take someone in ?

MrMusician18

Grayson wrote: »

My mum volunteered. I should be buying a house in the next year or two and I have no problem volunteering then. (I currently have a tiny one roomed apt that honestly would have difficulty hosting a hamster so it's just not possible now).

There's an idea that people aren't altruistic. Some people seem to think that the idea that someone would house a refugee is crazy. It's not. there are loads of kind hearted people who do go well out of their way to help people.

I agree that they're are. But there are far more people who will profess altruism but not follow up, or retract quietly when the reality hits.


To be honest, the high handed approach of the dept of Justice is doing this process no favours. Really, a direct provision centre should require planning permission minimum and that hotels cant simply be overnight changed to them. As part of the planning process, a community impact assessment should be carried out, which looks at education, healthcare, social, commercial and transport infrastructure in the community in which these are placed. It would give the community an outlet to voice their concerns.

I mean, if we now need planning to Airbnb, planning should be required for these facilities.

22michael44

worded wrote: »

I know someone from Ballaghaderreen and he used to call it Ballin a bad dream.

Have these mainly Economic Migrants not suffered enough already without sending them there?

it must be a real backwater if that's the best creative nickname a person from there can come up with.

Grayson

Rennaws wrote: »

You've just lost any credibility you had with this post imo.

Did your mum actually take someone in ?

No. No-one ever got back in contact with her. She did end up taking in an Irish family for a few months when they were between houses.

Every year at xmas my mum puts candles in every window at xmas eve. For her the story of Mary and Joseph wandering around, being turned away, is very important. When she lights those candles it's more than just symbolism. If someone came to the door needing shelter she would take them in 100%.
We grew up in the countryside. Neighbours would always comment on how our front porch light was always on. It was for the same reason. 24/7/365 that light was on.

And if a homeless person (or a tramp as we would have called them back then) called to the door, they were fed and offered hospitality.

My best friends family were similar. They also did a ridiculous amount of charity work and I spend many evenings at their place sorting through charity donations. My summers were spend volunteering for charities.

The point of all this is, that I know a hell of a lot of people who are incredibly giving. I've found that most people would help someone in need. The idea that there aren't a lot of people who'd be willing to house a refugee is ridiculous. Sure, it's not a majority of people but there's still a lot of them out there. And there's far more who would volunteer their time.

So when we see people in Moville who are reacting to the fire by forging ahead with a welcome party, it's not fair to think that they're a fringe group. People are generally nice and want to help others.

Grayson

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I agree that they're are. But there are far more people who will profess altruism but not follow up, or retract quietly when the reality hits.


To be honest, the high handed approach of the dept of Justice is doing this process no favours. Really, a direct provision centre should require planning permission minimum and that hotels cant simply be overnight changed to them. As part of the planning process, a community impact assessment should be carried out, which looks at education, healthcare, social, commercial and transport infrastructure in the community in which these are placed. It would give the community an outlet to voice their concerns.

I mean, if we now need planning to Airbnb, planning should be required for these facilities.

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

CucaFace

RandomName2 wrote: »

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

To be honest any Brazilian trying to stay in the country through this route is just a chancer. They can easily come here (they don't even need a visa to enter the country) and study English for 2 years, then move onto higher education for another few years.

I would guess what you have here is someone who has run out of money or has gone as far as they can down the education route to stay here and is now using the refugee status option to stay longer here and work. Probably using the 'im gay and back in Brazil that's not safe' path to refugee status.

The Bishop Basher

Grayson wrote: »

So when we see people in Moville who are reacting to the fire by forging ahead with a welcome party, it's not fair to think that they're a fringe group. People are generally nice and want to help others.

I agree but there's a whole world of a difference between saying you'll give up a room to a family of Syrian refugees and then actually doing it.

I also do quite a bit of charity work but I wouldn't have immigrants of any variety living in my home.

Car expert

Grayson wrote: »

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

We can put them into social housing. We need the government to wake up and start building more social houses.

10000maniacs

Grayson wrote: »

No. No-one ever got back in contact with her. She did end up taking in an Irish family for a few months when they were between houses.

Every year at xmas my mum puts candles in every window at xmas eve. For her the story of Mary and Joseph wandering around, being turned away, is very important. When she lights those candles it's more than just symbolism. If someone came to the door needing shelter she would take them in 100%.
We grew up in the countryside. Neighbours would always comment on how our front porch light was always on. It was for the same reason. 24/7/365 that light was on.

And if a homeless person (or a tramp as we would have called them back then) called to the door, they were fed and offered hospitality.

My best friends family were similar. They also did a ridiculous amount of charity work and I spend many evenings at their place sorting through charity donations. My summers were spend volunteering for charities.

The point of all this is, that I know a hell of a lot of people who are incredibly giving. I've found that most people would help someone in need. The idea that there aren't a lot of people who'd be willing to house a refugee is ridiculous. Sure, it's not a majority of people but there's still a lot of them out there. And there's far more who would volunteer their time.

So when we see people in Moville who are reacting to the fire by forging ahead with a welcome party, it's not fair to think that they're a fringe group. People are generally nice and want to help others.

There was a Youtube video posted of a meeting the locals attended concerning this very issue, and it is fair to say there were quite a number of objections raised. Consultation before the fact was the biggest issue. Schooling was also raised.
Just because the schoolteacher and the local counselor have put together a "Failte "group, that does not mean this is the general consensus in the town. But to the Indo, Failte is THE story.

2011

MrMusician18 wrote: »

he either goes ahead and risks this happening again or reverts to his old business as hotelier.

Well it hasn’t happened to him (the owner of the Grand Hotel in Wicklow) so far! I have seen nothing to suggest he will change his mind. Besides if it is burnt down imagine the insurance pay out for a large building like that and loss of earnings. It would be like a lottery win for the owner.

]Hotels that don't have the support of the local community don't survive generally.

It was a loss making business with the support of the local community so it makes no odds. Whereas this change of use is likely to be highly profitable

I suspect the attackers will have won this, but the community will have to live with the burnt out hotel to remind themselves of what they've done.

That depends on what happens and how you define a win.

topper75

Car expert wrote: »

We can put them into social housing. We need the government to wake up and start building more social houses.

Do you want to charge me more income tax to do this?

Or do you want to borrow money on the market on the back of future tax I pay?

They are the only two routes.

MrMusician18

Grayson wrote: »

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

Direct provision is only meant to be for 18 months maximum. Anyone there longer than that had been found to not be a genuine refugee and are appealing. Most appeals fail. Overall approx 90% are bogus.

And direct provision is overbearing by design, but meeds the minimum criteria set out in international law for dealing with refugees. It's meant to be unappealing so that only the genuinely fearful will put up with controls, particularly the inability to work. It reduced applications from about 10000 to just a few hundred over a year or two from it's introduction.

Zorya

Grayson wrote: »

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

You think that the hotel accommodation is only going to be for a couple of months? And then where will the people go? There seems to be a shortage of rentals all over, at least my children say it is so, and when I am looking for accommdation for my husband who has to travel around the country to work it is very difficult to find suitable places that are not astronomically priced. So, the refugees will likely be long-term in the hotels - that's the reality.

This hotel thing is as a result of Ireland agreeing to take in 5000 refugees from the European wave - that would be 40 small towns/villages taking 80 - 100, because there will probably be more in Dublin. It will be easier to handle if this is families, couples with children. It will be harder for small villages or towns to cope if it is primarily young single men. As much as we might like to make young lads seem cuddly and lost, hormonal, horny lads couped up in remote villages of several hundred native people in the wilds is not a recipe for success. It is nothing to do with their nationality, colour, refugee status etc., it is biology. Put a hundred Irish lads into a small village in some remote country and some of the same issues would arise, although I will qualify that later.

In areas where there are high levels of migratory populations of male workers, such as for example the tar sands, or shale fields in the US, there is an increase in sexual violence locally. And that is from people who are busy all day at work - what would it be like where there are young fellas hanging around with feck all to do?

Plus - and this is the qualifying factor (above) and I don't care how anyone frowns at this! - the countries many refugees come from do not have high opinions of women culturally speaking. They are regarded as chattels, to be married off young, maybe have FGM done to them, be chaperoned or be fair game, etc. It is just silly not to be frank about the potential problems.

I did not specifically condemn the arson because I presumed any right-minded person would take that condemnation as a given. It should be remembered that hostels have been burned down in Europe with the refugees inside! The lesson to be learned is that local people have to be consulted and listened to - we are not economic units to be shuffled around, or have changes foisted upon us. But that is exactly what happens.

And these refugees are also regarded as economic units by the powers that be, future workers (cheap labour) and consumers. It is not mercy or pity that motivates the people at the top - if they gave one single feck they would stop arms dealing and engage in fair trade with poorer nations. Then maybe these people would have a chance at a decent life.