Donegal Asylum Centre Torched

AlekSmart

MrMusician18 wrote: »

To be honest, it really looks like direct provision is on its last legs anyway. The left hate the system and those that are populist/right don't want the centers near them. With this kind of universal opposition, it will almost certainly be done away with in a year or two.

One thing about direct provision is that people forget is that as a policy it was and remains very successful. It's main goal was to essentially end bogus asylum seeker cases which boomed here during the early 2000's. The Irish system at the time was set up in a way that was generous since it was always emigration that was the issue here as well as Ireland being surrounded by stable wealthy countries. Up to that point, the only refugees that were ever thought likely to come to Ireland in numbers were Northern nationalists. It still amazes me that so many overfly and even transit so many wealthy western countries to seek asylum here, as the first safe country.

However once central African people smugglers identified the weakness in the system here, they swamped it with people, not refugees but economic migrants. This went on for a few years where we had over 10000 people seeking refuge here in one year. To end this, the direct provision system was created, all refugees would get food and shelter in accordance with international obligations but the system would be so overbearing that economic migrants would choose somewhere else to go. Numbers seeking asylum here plummeted overnight after the introduction of the policy. This reflected the reality that the overwhelming majority of asylum seekers were bogus. Even with the current punitive system, I believe that about 1 in 10 cases are deemed genuine, but those applying are in the hundreds, not thousands.


In the current system it is important to note that everyone gets their case heard within 18 months and as I said above, anyone in the system longer is pursuing an appeal.

As I understand, very many of these drawn out appeals are unsuccessful in the end, but so much time has elapsed that these people are generally granted indefinite leave to remain anyway, due to things like community ties and children in education.

Excellent post,consise and devoid of scarifying burning thatch images.

Nobody in post Merkelization Europe appears willing to give any credence to the role of the People Trafficker,and more importantly to the massive support and direct aid which Frau Merkel's solo-run provided these creeeps.

Perhaps,in decades to come,an enterprising Journalist may well pull at a thread that leads to the Intercontinental connections which enriched a small few Sub Saharan African individuals and groups....indeed,we might not be too surprised if there were some high profile Irish names on that list.

The current "Asylum" situation is primarily now a Business...and a well organized one at that.

Richard Hillman

It seems like the small town strategy was quite cunning in how they kicked it off. There was the hoohaa in Ballaghadereen. One thing that was really emphasized was that the center was for Syrian refugees. Now that Ballaghadereen has been "a great success" with all of those lovely pieces on RTE about integration and tolerance and everybody getting along Just fine, the government are pushing out these Centre's for the best of the rest. The goat herders and the coconut salesmen from Eritrea and the Congo.

pumpkin4life

Incredible how Irish people go on about beating the British and how rebellious and cool we are, yet as of now:

We are occupied by The European Union/Germany who we now have 200 billion worth of debt with, and Varadker's government is actively encouraging a new plantation, at the cost of the Irish people.

This is not an invasion, as another poster said. This is a fourth plantation.

But we love that and we love the European Union, and Fianna Gael are the most popular party in the country right now. Varadker is the worst Taoiseach this county has ever had and the Fianna Gael headed government since 2011 is destroying this county. Incredible.

I'm absolutely blown away by this. This is not rocket science. This is basic statistics and common sense. You think that some lad who gets tired of this acting out is a surprise? Just look at what is going on with Europe right now.

This is not going to end well.

end of the road

MrMusician18 wrote: »

They are hardly putting their lives on the line when they are essentially running a shuttle service between north Africa and Continent Europe, doing the work of the people smugglers.

The Mediterranean European countries don't want our "help".

they are working at sea, as experienced as they are, working at sea has it's risks and dangers.

Galwayguy35

Burning down the building was wrong and who ever did it deserves to be punished.

But the whole asylum process here is a mess and the Government need to get the finger out and overhaul the whole thing ASAP.

A decision should be reached within weeks of arrival and cut out this crap where they can appeal decisions to the highest court in the land at taxpayers expense.

We better hope this bill being proposed by Labour doesn't pass or there will be a lot more of them arriving and popping out as many babies as possible to get citizenship.

gw80

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Incredible how Irish people go on about beating the British and how rebellious and cool we are, yet as of now:

We are occupied by The European Union/Germany who we now have 200 billion worth of debt with, and Varadker's government is actively encouraging a new plantation, at the cost of the Irish people.

This is not an invasion, as another poster said. This is a fourth plantation.

But we love that and we love the European Union, and Fianna Gael are the most popular party in the country right now. Varadker is the worst Taoiseach this county has ever had and the Fianna Gael headed government since 2011 is destroying this county. Incredible.

I'm absolutely blown away by this. This is not rocket science. This is basic statistics and common sense. You think that some lad who gets tired of this acting out is a surprise? Just look at what is going on with Europe right now.

This is not going to end well.

We sold our soles, for bridges and roads.

end of the road

tretorn wrote: »

Itsly have sorted out the migrant taxi service they dont want, they closed the Italian ports and paid Libya to take the waifs and strays,all the migrants sre strong healthy young men, they probably leave hard work to the women in the countries they have left.

plenty of women among migrants coming over. sure, doesn't suit the old agenda but it is what it is

tretorn wrote: »

None of these men are of use to any country, bone lazy and coming to Europe to live on handouts.

all of them? you sure about that? i'm sure there are some who are exactly as you describe, after all it would be unrealistic to think that some human beings from all walks of life won't behave in such a manner, however suggesting that somehow all of a particular group are of the same mindset and behave the same way is just generalising guff, tbh.

tretorn

If the navy have nothing better to do than cruise around the Mediterranean picking up economic migrants then maybe we should disband the navy completely.
We could save a fortune and really at the end of the day if the navy isnt there to serve Irish people then its no use to us.
We can donate money accrued with selling off the ships to Libya so they will take the migrants from the sea. If migrants realise they will end up in Libya then they mightnt take off. Let these able bodied men put the work into building up their own countries, why cant the powers that be just join up the dots.
Im watching Taken now, boring old crap, full of black people and actors with awful Dublin accents.

Discodog

Ryleigh Low Grub wrote: »

I once was that person who found it easy to shout "racist" without considering the bigger picture.

I lived next door to one set of nightmare scummy neighbours in Phibsborough, Dublin, and numerous ones on Old Youghal Road in Cork but overall it was nothing compared to what some people have to endure.

I now live in a trouble-free area of Cork - why do you ask?

Were your problems caused by immigrants ?

Discodog

mammajamma wrote: »

Just think about this for a second. Imagine that you think the united states is great, as an economic migrant, vastly superior to Ireland in every way.

You hear from friends/family (or otherwise) that if you land in the united states under the pretence that you are a refugee you will be allowed work for a few years (say) without any need for visas or anything of the sort. Bear in mind, the criteria for refugee is "we'll find out later".

Now, try and sell that idea to an American, see how well it comes across in terms of "good idea/bad idea"

In general, its all a terrible idea, social welfare/work permits/whatever for people who can just swan in (and bear in mind, again, that very many of these people are as much refugees as they are pineapples)

As for the other thing, let me just ask that small town whether they are aiding GardaI'll be right back.

It's interesting how you start by saying that it's wrong because Donegal isn't the right place but now you seem to be saying that the problem is immigrants swanning in.

Edgware

gw80 wrote: »

We sold our soles, for bridges and roads.

As the Workers Party wrote about the Dublin working class in Dublin West when Liam Lawlor won the seat
"They sold their souls for bags of coal
And Lawlors pints in Finches"

Discodog

The sheer hypocrisy of Irish people moaning about economic migrants.

Deiselurker

There was an article about the Wicklow Town hotel being used as a direct provision centre in today's Sunday Independent. The owner admitted it was a business decision and blamed locals for not supporting the hotel more in last couple of years. It must be a good earner to have a fully occupied hotel paid for by the government in rural areas as hotels would not be full in small towns and villages especially in winter months. I think this is why we are seeing government moving more of these centres away from bigger cities to cheaper locations regardless of suitability for both locals and the asylum seekers. If we had a proper asylum system which quickly deported people who were denied asylum instead of leaving them here for years on end while legal challenges slow down the deportation it would help a lot.

4068ac1elhodqr

Discodog wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy of Irish people moaning about economic migrants.

Economic migration was brilliant craic, and highly recommended back in 1900 with undiscoverd fertile fields to plough, wars a waging and apple orchards unpicked, all set in a mere global population of just 1.6bn.

Today with 7.2bn, and no place to rent in this town, we enter the 4th industrial reveloution, one of automation, ai and robotics (unskilled humans not essential).

Vegas will sortly run out of drinking water, almond milk drinking hipsters are causing further shortages in SoCal. Venice and Barca start to turn away visitors.

Even the clever Chinese in order to meet their green targets, are still building coal fired power stations (Just not in their own smoggy back-yard), instead it's an 'export opportunity' to a booming uncontrolled population in Africa. The just opened a new mining coal field there with '50yrs worth of burning' to dig out, smoggy times ahead.

enricoh

Discodog wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy of Irish people moaning about economic migrants.

I thought these were officially asylum seekers, fleeing for their lives? Then getting a couple of connecting flights until they felt they were safe enough in Ireland with its world class welfare system.
Do a few years penance in direct provision until you get the amnesty and full welfare benefits. Jobs oxo.

humberklog

Discodog wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy of Irish people moaning about economic migrants.

Did you post in the wrong thread?

This is one's about refugees.

Wibbs

Discodog wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy of Irish people moaning about economic migrants.

And as night follows day we have this daftly simplistic comparison come up... Eh, no.

The mass movement of Irish peoples; a) operated in a very different time, b) they went to places where they spoke the language fluently, c) unskilled labour was far more in demand, d) they went almost exclusively to ex colonies founded on immigration, e) they went there legally in the vast majority of cases and f) there was no social welfare and free housing awaiting them when they got there.

pumpkin4life

RandomName2

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

pablo128

RandomName2 wrote: »

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

It's mainly African countries that these refugees come from.

end of the road

tretorn wrote: »

If the navy have nothing better to do than cruise around the Mediterranean picking up economic migrants then maybe we should disband the navy completely.

do you think that is all the navy does? i'd doubt it, some how.

tretorn wrote: »

We could save a fortune and really at the end of the day if the navy isnt there to serve Irish people then its no use to us.

it is serving irish people. very well in fact. you may not like the job it has been given, but that isn't how serving a country works, i'm afraid. it is doing what it has been given to do by the government, which is it's job, to follow orders.

tretorn wrote: »

We can donate money accrued with selling off the ships to Libya so they will take the migrants from the sea.

and what ships are we using to patrol either our own seas, or when involved in peace keeping missions where ships are required?

tretorn wrote: »

If migrants realise they will end up in Libya then they mightnt take off.

i'd suggest, quite likely they still would. if they want to get away from the situation they are in, they will do so, some how, some way.

tretorn wrote: »

Let these able bodied men put the work into building up their own countries, why cant the powers that be just join up the dots.

because there are no dots to join up here.

tretorn wrote: »

Im watching Taken now, boring old crap, full of black people and actors with awful Dublin accents.

is it just on screen that you have a problem with black people, or do you have a problem with black people in general?

tretorn

I am about as interested in black people as they are in me, a white person.

I find black people very loud and their children unruly.

Countries dont become ****holes unless the general population are ****holes so I fail to see how hundreds of able bodied economic male migrants are going to be of any use to us.

The likelihood is they will impregnate as many Irish native women as possible and the women they mate with will have as little prospects as the economic migrants, intelligent capable Irish women are independent no wont hook up unemployed educated black men. This will mean big increases in child benefit and unruly gangs of teenagers in fifteen years time, I am thinking we only need to look to Paris and Malmo and certain areas of Brussels to know whats in store.

Will we ever learn.

Mod: Banned for blatant racism.

Richard Hillman

Somebody seeking asylum used to be for major political figures, members of the opposition, deposed leaders, royal families, who were to seek asylum until they could return safely to their homeland. People like Charles De Gaul, the Shah of Iran, the Dalai Lama and so on. Not a Goat Herder from Afghanistan. The system has been manipulated and eroded where the criteria has gone from a notable figure with an imminent threat to their life to "things are a bit rubbish around here, I'll swan off to Europe to hang around Italian train stations selling selfie sticks".

STB.

pablo128 wrote: »

It's mainly African countries that these refugees come from.

In terms of one particular country rather than a whole continent, its Georgia actually. They are economic migrants.

http://ipo.gov.ie/en/IPO/IPO%20monthly%20statistics%20September%202018.pdf/Files/IPO%20monthly%20statistics%20September%202018.pdf

67 million every year. That's the cost to the taxpayer for direct provision accommodation for those seeking "asylum".

Zorya

I can understand people feeling sympathy for genuine refugees leaving war torn situations seeking refuge, I do too. But the cold hard facts are that there is a very well-developed migrant 'rail road' that is delivering economic migrants from villages all over the poorer parts of the world. For a hefty price, often. Wheelers and dealers taking cash to ship off the extra sons of poor families, so that they can seek their fortune in the 'west'. And what family with too many mouths to feed in a place where the prospects are nil would not ship off the lads.

This migrant rail road has got to be stopped, because as nice and all as we might imagine it would be to welcome every comer into the bosom of Europa, it is simply not logistically feasible. There are too many people who would want to come, and Europe including Ireland does not have the money to cope with sheltering all the world's poor. The continent will not lift all ships, instead it will be dragged down and sunk into indebtedness, social problems, multicultural clashes, etc.

It would be far better to halt the economic migrants - I am completely against this UN migrant treaty - and to seriously INVEST in those parts of the world from where the migrants are coming. I'm talking defend the borders and then big money inward that creates potential in their home places, for education, work, agriculture, etc. It might even be cheaper than what we are proposing to do now, to house, educate and train people for employment (if it exists) here.

I don't care if people say that makes me a racist or a bigot or right-wing, couldn't give a feck, I know I am not, I am a good person who feels compassion easily - but I am tired of bleeding heart liberals or whatever they think they are living out their God-complexes vicariously. It's the same motivation that had people doing their years in Ethiopia or wherever, serving the poor, setting up food stations that exploded populations beyond carrying capacity, and them going around like the great white saviours, feeling noble, and thinking they were saving the world.

Ally Dick

pablo128 wrote: »

It's mainly African countries that these refugees come from.

And how can you know for sure if a Nigerian is escaping from Boko Haram, or here on the scrounge?

AllForIt

Wibbs wrote: »

And as night follows day we have this daftly simplistic comparison come up... Eh, no.

The mass movement of Irish peoples; a) operated in a very different time, b) they went to places where they spoke the language fluently, c) unskilled labour was far more in demand, d) they went almost exclusively to ex colonies founded on immigration, e) they went there legally in the vast majority of cases and f) there was no social welfare and free housing awaiting them when they got there.

Your handy to have around Wibbs! Nailed it.

Ally Dick

It's the state services that I don't trust, even more than the asylum seekers. Lazy yawning civil servants in government offices doing any kind of due diligence on asylum applications? I don't think so. Christmas is coming. Parties to attend. And golf handicaps to get down. Same go for the gardai. Have a terrible attitude to their jobs. They're a disgrace

malinheader

Discodog wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy of Irish people moaning about economic migrants.

Just to put it into perspective for someone like you and others who would like us to flood the country with as many immigrants as care to come. Last week it was leaked from someone who worked within the hse that operations for cancer patients were being postponed as to keep beds available for a and e departments as to not bring to light the drastic shortage of beds and the hospital crisis. Is it not time the government started to look after there own people first. And the health service is only one of a number of services that are not adequate for the population we have now.

end of the road

tretorn wrote: »

I am about as interested in black people as they are in me, a white person.

I find black people very loud and their children unruly.

Countries dont become ****holes unless the general population are ****holes so I fail to see how hundreds of able bodied economic male migrants are going to be of any use to us.

The likelihood is they will impregnate as many Irish native women as possible and the women they mate with will have as little prospects as the economic migrants, intelligent capable Irish women are independent no wont hook up unemployed educated black men. This will mean big increases in child benefit and unruly gangs of teenagers in fifteen years time, I am thinking we only need to look to Paris and Malmo and certain areas of Brussels to know whats in store.

Will we ever learn.

to be honest with you, i am not sure that i believe you. i think you do have a problem with black people and a very big one at that. maybe i am wrong, but this post and the end of your previous one, suggests to me that i'm quite likely not. but anyway, i should probably leave it there.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Somebody seeking asylum used to be for major political figures, members of the opposition, deposed leaders, royal families, who were to seek asylum until they could return safely to their homeland. People like Charles De Gaul, the Shah of Iran, the Dalai Lama and so on. Not a Goat Herder from Afghanistan. The system has been manipulated and eroded where the criteria has gone from a notable figure with an imminent threat to their life to "things are a bit rubbish around here, I'll swan off to Europe to hang around Italian train stations selling selfie sticks".

well, our process, and other country's processes, suggest this is very much not the case. you will not get asylum in ireland because "things are a bit rubbish around here" . same in america, australia, uk, and many others.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Goat Herder from Afghanistan.

and there we have it.