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European Parliament Elections 2019

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  • 19-11-2018 12:49am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭


    Next year's election, is, in my opinion a huge deal.

    First off, they're the first elections with no UK MEPs (and a few countries getting a few extra seats). So the UK's absence is already a noticeable change and a visible consequence of Brexit.

    Then we have the fact that far-right and nationalist parties are going to seize this opportunity to deal "the finishing blow" to the EU, so to speak. Depending on the number of seats they get, they may even be able to block legislation. This elections will also see Macron's En Marche! party in France and the Volt pan-European party, the first of its kind.

    At the very least, if not a huge deal, very interesting. The last European Elections had the lowest turnout ever. Will this get better? Worse? How can we engage more people at the European level?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    Some helpful information on that here: https://www.thistimeimvoting.eu/

    Can only hope that fascist parties don't get much headway in terms of MEPs, they're like a cancer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    Thanks for that link, I'll make sure to spread it among my friends in Spain. I think a big issue here is that we don't get an MEP per constituency (like in Ireland) rather, it's as if Spain were a single constituency and all of its 59 seats are awarded proportionally. You vote for a party list here.

    Personally I prefer the Irish system. It's impossible for an Independent to run in this system, and I also like having "my" MEP.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    I like the theory of pan European parties but its execution leaves a lot to be desired.

    I looked at the Volt webpage and it's all very fluffy about creating a new progressive and dynamic Europe with a booming economy, "true equality" and reform of the EU. But it's unclear what the European Parliament can do about the economy (bar development grants etc, which is small in EU terms), equality is already enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, and since Parliament don't have any binding powers in relation to treaty change, it's unclear what their role would be in relation to reform.

    I suppose they are positioning themselves to exercise soft power by influence or perhaps as a statement to show that they are against the rise of the far right etc. That's laudible, but even still it's unclear what they actually stand for. In terms of EU reform, are they advocating for an Ever Closer Union or are they advocating that we maybe scale back the EU? This is a massive question that I'd like to see debated in earnest, but it's unclear what their position actually is.

    So I like the idea of pan european parties. Specifically, I like the idea that the existing candidates would run under the banner of their European Parliament Grouping rather than their domestic party.

    So we have:
    Fine Gael - European People's Party - Conservative pro EU
    Labour - Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats - Social Democratic pro EU
    Fianna Fail - Alliance of Liberals and Democrats - Liberal Democratic pro EU
    Greens - Greens - Greens pro EU
    Sinn Feinn - GUE/NGL - Left euro sceptic (but not anti-EU)

    Then the ones that we don't have any party support for
    ECR - Centre Right Anti-European Union
    EFDD - basically UKIP types Right Anti-European Union
    EFD - the really hard right who are also Anti-European Union
    ENF - are you starting to see the pattern?

    Luckily, the reason why none of our parties endorse the latter four is that there isn't any real appetite for the hard right in Ireland. I think there are usually a few odd ball independents who run on an anti EU hard right platform, but Irish people don't really care for it.

    So I'm not sure where Volt will fit in with all this. Perhaps to be the Centre Left Pro-EU party for those who do not wish to vote along established party lines.

    The thing I never fully understood about the party alliances is that in Ireland Fine Gael would be more socially liberal that Fianna Fail, yet they are members of the more conservative grouping and Fianna Fail are members of the liberal grouping.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    I like the theory of pan European parties but its execution leaves a lot to be desired.

    I looked at the Volt webpage and it's all very fluffy about creating a new progressive and dynamic Europe with a booming economy, "true equality" and reform of the EU. But it's unclear what the European Parliament can do about the economy (bar development grants etc, which is small in EU terms), equality is already enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, and since Parliament don't have any binding powers in relation to treaty change, it's unclear what their role would be in relation to reform.

    I suppose they are positioning themselves to exercise soft power by influence or perhaps as a statement to show that they are against the rise of the far right etc. That's laudible, but even still it's unclear what they actually stand for. In terms of EU reform, are they advocating for an Ever Closer Union or are they advocating that we maybe scale back the EU? This is a massive question that I'd like to see debated in earnest, but it's unclear what their position actually is.

    So I like the idea of pan european parties. Specifically, I like the idea that the existing candidates would run under the banner of their European Parliament Grouping rather than their domestic party.

    So we have:
    Fine Gael - European People's Party - Conservative pro EU
    Labour - Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats - Social Democratic pro EU
    Fianna Fail - Alliance of Liberals and Democrats - Liberal Democratic pro EU
    Greens - Greens - Greens pro EU
    Sinn Feinn - GUE/NGL - Left euro sceptic (but not anti-EU)

    Then the ones that we don't have any party support for
    ECR - Centre Right Anti-European Union
    EFDD - basically UKIP types Right Anti-European Union
    EFD - the really hard right who are also Anti-European Union
    ENF - are you starting to see the pattern?

    Luckily, the reason why none of our parties endorse the latter four is that there isn't any real appetite for the hard right in Ireland. I think there are usually a few odd ball independents who run on an anti EU hard right platform, but Irish people don't really care for it.

    So I'm not sure where Volt will fit in with all this. Perhaps to be the Centre Left Pro-EU party for those who do not wish to vote along established party lines.

    The thing I never fully understood about the party alliances is that in Ireland Fine Gael would be more socially liberal that Fianna Fail, yet they are members of the more conservative grouping and Fianna Fail are members of the liberal grouping.

    If Germany is any indication, centre-left voters appear to be defecting to the Greens - unlikely to happen in Ireland, where they largely move to SF, but could well happen in France, and in Spain they're already in an alliance with Podemos.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    breatheme wrote: »
    Thanks for that link, I'll make sure to spread it among my friends in Spain. I think a big issue here is that we don't get an MEP per constituency (like in Ireland) rather, it's as if Spain were a single constituency and all of its 59 seats are awarded proportionally. You vote for a party list here.

    Personally I prefer the Irish system. It's impossible for an Independent to run in this system, and I also like having "my" MEP.

    The worrying thing about that is there is a new neo-Francoist party emerging there called Vox - they just need to get about 2%, and voila they have at least one MEP.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    I like the theory of pan European parties but its execution leaves a lot to be desired.

    I looked at the Volt webpage and it's all very fluffy about creating a new progressive and dynamic Europe with a booming economy, "true equality" and reform of the EU. But it's unclear what the European Parliament can do about the economy (bar development grants etc, which is small in EU terms), equality is already enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, and since Parliament don't have any binding powers in relation to treaty change, it's unclear what their role would be in relation to reform.

    Agree, mostly. I keep meaning to check out local Volt events, but they keep being annoyingly inconvenient for me. I think for them the European Parliament is a stepping stone and not a means to an end, however.
    So I like the idea of pan european parties. Specifically, I like the idea that the existing candidates would run under the banner of their European Parliament Grouping rather than their domestic party.

    This would make much more sense, and if it could be actually fully implemented (e.g. completely scrapping the Domestic Parties) it would allow for more nuance for voters.
    The thing I never fully understood about the party alliances is that in Ireland Fine Gael would be more socially liberal that Fianna Fail, yet they are members of the more conservative grouping and Fianna Fail are members of the liberal grouping.

    Yeah if they were completely separate in the EU Parliament elections, then members of FF/FG/any other party could determine which EU party adjusts more to their policies/values, rather than fall in line with whatever arrangement their Home Party has.
    If Germany is any indication, centre-left voters appear to be defecting to the Greens - unlikely to happen in Ireland, where they largely move to SF, but could well happen in France, and in Spain they're already in an alliance with Podemos.

    If I were in Germany I may vote the Greens. I'm thinking of voting the Greens over here.
    The worrying thing about that is there is a new neo-Francoist party emerging there called Vox - they just need to get about 2%, and voila they have at least one MEP.

    Ugh don't even get me started. They're on the news here all the time. They were never a thing to worry about but of course, like in most of Europe, they now feel entitled to a platform.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Europe Elects reports that Varoufakis plans to run for the European Parliament in Germany, for the local branch of his DiEM 25 pan-European party.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    Source:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1064860596674404353

    Is he even resident in Germany?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,851 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    At this stage, all I know for certain is that Matt Carthy's not getting a vote from me this time around.


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Is Matt Carthy even running? He’s on the SF ticket for Cavan-Monaghan in the GE I think.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,748 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Will be very interesting to see if crowley runs again as an independent, i think the media might finally pick up on his 0% voting record while still claiming his salary and expenses


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    If Germany is any indication, centre-left voters appear to be defecting to the Greens - unlikely to happen in Ireland, where they largely move to SF, but could well happen in France, and in Spain they're already in an alliance with Podemos.
    Funny enough I think the Greens could do better in collecting "protest" votes in EP elections than in national elections.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭brickster69


    An absolute car crash live interview with the PM on bbc radio now.

    All roads lead to Rome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭brickster69


    It's over now..... literally

    All roads lead to Rome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Will be very interesting to see if crowley runs again as an independent, i think the media might finally pick up on his 0% voting record while still claiming his salary and expenses

    He's back in the FF fold now, but has said he will clarify his intentions shortly. Interesting developments on the left, where Mélenchon's party, Podemos and the Portuguese Left Bloc have split from Syriza, meaning SF will have to decide which grouping to side with after the elections.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,748 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    He's back in the FF fold now, but has said he will clarify his intentions shortly. Interesting developments on the left, where Mélenchon's party, Podemos and the Portuguese Left Bloc have split from Syriza, meaning SF will have to decide which grouping to side with after the elections.


    Sources for this? I cant see any statements from him or FF on the matter


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    It ll be interesting to see how yanis varoufakis's diem25 gets on in this to


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    breatheme wrote: »
    Thanks for that link, I'll make sure to spread it among my friends in Spain. I think a big issue here is that we don't get an MEP per constituency (like in Ireland) rather, it's as if Spain were a single constituency and all of its 59 seats are awarded proportionally. You vote for a party list here.

    Personally I prefer the Irish system. It's impossible for an Independent to run in this system, and I also like having "my" MEP.

    Is the party list Spanish parties or EU parties?

    I think an easy fix to some of teh democratic deficit is for all EU candidates to run on their EU parties. That cuts out the middle man of the national party.

    People can then ask directly about policies in the EP that a constituents represents. THis method would somehow alleviate the tendency to protest vote: The vote is not for the local Government its for the European Parlaiment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    It's Spanish parties. I'd love to cut out the middleman.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    A massive issue with the appearance of democratic deficit of the European Parliament elections is that candidates campaign for local parties (irrelevant) instead of European parties or groups (relevant).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,648 ✭✭✭honeybear


    My dad got his annual Christmas card from B Crowley. It’s expensive looking. My dad is a FF supporter and wouldn’t know B Crowley really at all. I wonder how many he sends. As a MEP supposed to be representing me, I don’t feel he represents me.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That he's sending them suggests he's going to try again. If people vote him in they deserve it


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    I like the theory of pan European parties but its execution leaves a lot to be desired.

    I looked at the Volt webpage and it's all very fluffy about creating a new progressive and dynamic Europe with a booming economy, "true equality" and reform of the EU. But it's unclear what the European Parliament can do about the economy (bar development grants etc, which is small in EU terms), equality is already enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, and since Parliament don't have any binding powers in relation to treaty change, it's unclear what their role would be in relation to reform.

    I suppose they are positioning themselves to exercise soft power by influence or perhaps as a statement to show that they are against the rise of the far right etc. That's laudible, but even still it's unclear what they actually stand for. In terms of EU reform, are they advocating for an Ever Closer Union or are they advocating that we maybe scale back the EU? This is a massive question that I'd like to see debated in earnest, but it's unclear what their position actually is.

    So I like the idea of pan european parties. Specifically, I like the idea that the existing candidates would run under the banner of their European Parliament Grouping rather than their domestic party.

    So we have:
    Fine Gael - European People's Party - Conservative pro EU
    Labour - Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats - Social Democratic pro EU
    Fianna Fail - Alliance of Liberals and Democrats - Liberal Democratic pro EU
    Greens - Greens - Greens pro EU
    Sinn Feinn - GUE/NGL - Left euro sceptic (but not anti-EU)

    Then the ones that we don't have any party support for
    ECR - Centre Right Anti-European Union
    EFDD - basically UKIP types Right Anti-European Union
    EFD - the really hard right who are also Anti-European Union
    ENF - are you starting to see the pattern?

    Luckily, the reason why none of our parties endorse the latter four is that there isn't any real appetite for the hard right in Ireland. I think there are usually a few odd ball independents who run on an anti EU hard right platform, but Irish people don't really care for it.

    So I'm not sure where Volt will fit in with all this. Perhaps to be the Centre Left Pro-EU party for those who do not wish to vote along established party lines.


    The thing I never fully understood about the party alliances is that in Ireland Fine Gael would be more socially liberal that Fianna Fail, yet they are members of the more conservative grouping and Fianna Fail are members of the liberal grouping.

    You need to go back to when we joined the ECs.

    FG had been socially conservative but did have a liberalising wing. Likewise within the Christian Democrat parties that formed the EPP there were also divergent views with parties usually tending to be either more conservative or liberal depending on their origin. As such FG slotted in fairly well to the broad church of the EPP.

    FF by way of contrast was much more nationalistic and opted to join the French Gaullists in the “Union of European Nations” which, as the name implies, placed the emphasis on the Nations, rather than on the Union. Eventually though French politics moved on and the Gaullists ended up as part of a larger French grouping, which opted to join the EPP. That left FF as political orphans. Still dominated at the time by the PD influence, they opted to join the Liberals. At the time, they were very much on the “Free Market” Liberal end of the spectrum rather than the Social Liberal end. It seemed like an awkward fit at first but since then FF has become more socially liberal and the more successful Liberal parties have tended to come from the economic liberal end of the spectrum rather than the socially liberal one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Is Matt Carthy even running? He’s on the SF ticket for Cavan-Monaghan in the GE I think.

    This is a really odd thing for me to say, given my voting history, but I hope he does run.

    In this constituency, three out of four MEPs have been very supportive of my sector of farming, Harkin, Ming, and Carthy. The two more recent MEPs have displayed a considerable aptitude for soaking up information, retaining, and acting upon it.

    I'll be casting three votes in that order should they all run.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    View wrote: »
    You need to go back to when we joined the ECs.

    FG had been socially conservative but did have a liberalising wing. Likewise within the Christian Democrat parties that formed the EPP there were also divergent views with parties usually tending to be either more conservative or liberal depending on their origin. As such FG slotted in fairly well to the broad church of the EPP.

    FF by way of contrast was much more nationalistic and opted to join the French Gaullists in the “Union of European Nations” which, as the name implies, placed the emphasis on the Nations, rather than on the Union. Eventually though French politics moved on and the Gaullists ended up as part of a larger French grouping, which opted to join the EPP. That left FF as political orphans. Still dominated at the time by the PD influence, they opted to join the Liberals. At the time, they were very much on the “Free Market” Liberal end of the spectrum rather than the Social Liberal end. It seemed like an awkward fit at first but since then FF has become more socially liberal and the more successful Liberal parties have tended to come from the economic liberal end of the spectrum rather than the socially liberal one.

    That's very interesting. I wasn't really aware of nuanced history of it. It's a very strange state of affairs that their connection to the groups is largely historical rather than ideological. I wonder if it's the same in other countries.

    All the more reason I suppose that we should start thinking of our European candidates in terms of where they sit in the European Parliament Groupings rather than based on their domestic party allegiance!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,748 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    honeybear wrote: »
    As a MEP supposed to be representing me, I don’t feel he represents me.


    Considering he has a 0% attendance record he represents nobody but his own wallet, the mans a disgrace and needs to be called out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Is Matt Carthy even running? He’s on the SF ticket for Cavan-Monaghan in the GE I think.

    I assume he isnt. They may well run Martina Anderson

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Funny enough I think the Greens could do better in collecting "protest" votes in EP elections than in national elections.

    They used to get that - remember Patricia McKenna and Nuala Ahern

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    He's back in the FF fold now, but has said he will clarify his intentions shortly. Interesting developments on the left, where Mnchon's party, Podemos and the Portuguese Left Bloc have split from Syriza, meaning SF will have to decide which grouping to side with after the elections.

    What? When did Crowley rejoin FF?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,775 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    What? When did Crowley rejoin FF?
    he never left. Hes just not in the Parliamentary Party. I don't why anyone would say he's back in the fold though.


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