Arlene Foster, single-handedly and unintentionally paving the way forward for a UI

Berserker

Deleted User wrote: »

How about an ex-First Minister who wants to be First Minister again leading by example? Never too widespread has lateral thinking been amongst Unionism. Representing the whole region? No.

She's the only person representing NI. Last time I checked the other party who is supposed to be at the table isn't bothering to show up to represent the people who voted for them. Hows that for leadership?

ZeroThreat wrote: »

If the consequences of Brexit on the British economy are severe enough to cause a significant reduction in the annual subvention to Northern Ireland, then I'd disagree.

It won't be. Not sure if you are aware but the DUP is in a nice position when it comes to bargaining in London. Also, the funding that London will be able to provide will still exceed the amount that Dublin can provide. You do know that the RoI is in debt up to it's eyeballs? When the sh1t hits the fan again, take a guess where the RoI will need to get a handout from, once again?

circadian wrote: »

You can be certain, that the government in London will cut as much funding from NI as needed to prop up Brexit. Especially if the UK economy is hit hard. Let's not forget that the Tories are more than happy to sell off and privatise the public sector, why on earth would they want to continue to dump cash into the NI Civil Service?

Privatisation has been in place for decades on the mainland UK and NI has not been subject to that. Brexit is not going to change that. The rate of change, which is bugger all, will slow down in NI, if anything.

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

Arlene's job is to represent the people of NI and the people who voted for her, to be more specific. Little doubt in my mind that she is doing exactly that. I get that posters on here don't agree with her view on matters but you can't deny that she's representing them.



Makes no difference. NI does not have a functioning economy. I get the impression that people are thinking of NI as a mini version of the south in economic terms. It's not.

The points you have made will have no effect on NI once London keeps providing the cash to keep the public sector going. If and when the private sector takes a nose-dive, it's not going upset the NI apple-cart too much. The NI private sector is made up of companies who came in, with a helping hand in financial terms after the GFA was put in place. I used to do work up there for one of them and the one of the directors from the US told me that the money they pump into Belfast is spare change for that company. They are not going to up sticks either. NI might be one of the poorest parts of the UK but it's financial place is pretty safe.

No offence but this level of thinking is indicative of the naivety with which people view trading.

If NI leaves the single market like the DUP want the cost of trading will increase significantly. The cost of business will increase in every measurable way from transport, to importing and exporting to services. The financial helping hand that you mention post GFA was in fact largely EU money! You might say that the UK will replace that post-Brexit but they already have a lot of EU funds to replace post-Brexit. That's in relation to your idea that things will be fine.

The second point is in relation to your idea that a country will be "fine" if private investment disappears is ludicrous. You cannot believe that if private enterprise takes a nose dive, people lose their jobs and less money is invested in the region that people in NI Ireland will be happy and the economy will be "just fine"? How much more do you want the quality of life in NI to drop? How much do you think people will be happy to stay in that union?

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

She's the only person representing NI. Last time I checked the other party who is supposed to be at the table isn't bothering to show up to represent the people who voted for them. Hows that for leadership?



It won't be. Not sure if you are aware but the DUP is in a nice position when it comes to bargaining in London. Also, the funding that London will be able to provide will still exceed the amount that Dublin can provide. You do know that the RoI is in debt up to it's eyeballs? When the sh1t hits the fan again, take a guess where the RoI will need to get a handout from, once again?



Privatisation has been in place for decades on the mainland UK and NI has not been subject to that. Brexit is not going to change that. The rate of change, which is bugger all, will slow down in NI, if anything.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The UK is now, at best a vassal state of the EU. A rule taker and it will suffer considerably when it leaves the EU.

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

She's the only person representing NI. Last time I checked the other party who is supposed to be at the table isn't bothering to show up to represent the people who voted for them. Hows that for leadership?

How is she 'representing NI' if you are treating it as a single entity when a majority voted to remain and continue to support that position? Brexit is the current critical issue of the day and she is NOT representing the majority view of the region with regards to it.

steddyeddy

Brexit Labour shortage could shrink NI's economy by 9%. That's just the Labour shortage, not the barriers to trading.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/brexit/northern-ireland-economy-could-shrink-by-9-over-brexit-labour-shortage-businesses-warn-pm-37408392.html

ZeroThreat

Berserker wrote: »

It won't be. Not sure if you are aware but the DUP is in a nice position when it comes to bargaining in London. Also, the funding that London will be able to provide will still exceed the amount that Dublin can provide. You do know that the RoI is in debt up to it's eyeballs? When the sh1t hits the fan again, take a guess where the RoI will need to get a handout from, once again?

The DUP's current position in the HoC arithmetic is only a very temporary thing, (a fluke, enabled by May's incompetence in calling an unnecessary snap election).
The odds are pretty remote that the DUP will have any leverage in Westminster in the near future. They had their shot and look to have blown it, while undermining unionism in the longer term.

You talk about Ireland's high debts, UK also suffers from high debts, coupled with the cluster***k and uncertainty of Brexit coming down the line.

The vast majority of Ireland's bailout loans (or 'handouts' as you term them) didn't come from the UK anyway, maninly from EU and the IMF. The Brits provided some smaller loans mainly to safeguard the interests of some British financial institutions which have largely been paid back at this stage (with something like €500 m in interest so far afaik).

Why do you think Ireland would be looking to a UK going down the drain for loans in the future? Are you a gammon Daily Telegrapher come on this site to subtlety troll perhaps? Maybe we could also try asking for moolah from Venezuela and Yemen??

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

It won't be. Not sure if you are aware but the DUP is in a nice position when it comes to bargaining in London. Also, the funding that London will be able to provide will still exceed the amount that Dublin can provide. You do know that the RoI is in debt up to it's eyeballs? When the sh1t hits the fan again, take a guess where the RoI will need to get a handout from, once again?

Two things here. You talk about handouts to Ireland while happily stating that the NI economy will happily operate as a leech to Britain in any economic circumstance.

Secondly civil servants have been informed to stop circulating emails to DUP staff as the Tory partnership seems to be failing. You think the DUP's behaviour is endearing them to the average Brit?


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-conservatives-emails-civil-servants-brexit-deal-confidence-supply-agreement-a8633896.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1542215321

Kalyke

Her self and Sammy have a lovely Tan on the six one news just now!

Avatar MIA

Watching Sammy Wilson standing alongside Snarlene on the BBC, he looked like he was going to throw up.

Nidgeweasel

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Watching Sammy Wilson standing alongside Snarlene on the BBC, he looked like he was going to throw up.

Probably caught his own reflection.

The Rape of Lucretia

The UK looking like the cat that got the cream this evening. Those who laughed at the idea that it was possible to have ones cake and eat are the ones with egg on their faces.
And NI looking really to have got the plum deal. (Scotland bleating about how they have a lesser version, shows how good the deal is for all in NI).
And Varadkar :

How is your mood Taoiseach?
"Pretty good, this is one of the better days in politics".

- clearly excited at the possibility now open to Ireland to Breune with the same deal as NI, or even with a few bonus bells and whistles. Timing looks right for a 2022 Centenary Breunion deal.

Hannibal_Smith

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The UK looking like the cat that got the cream this evening. Those who laughed at the idea that it was possible to have ones cake and eat are the ones with egg on their faces.
And NI looking really to have got the plum deal. (Scotland bleating about how they have a lesser version, shows how good the deal is for all in NI).
And Varadkar :

How is your mood Taoiseach?
"Pretty good, this is one of the better days in politics".

- clearly excited at the possibility now open to Ireland to Breune with the same deal as NI, or even with a few bonus bells and whistles. Timing looks right for a 2022 Centenary Breunion deal.

But doesn't it have to be passed by UK Parliament and the eu etc? So no one has got anything yet.

The Rape of Lucretia

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

But doesn't it have to be passed by UK Parliament and the eu etc? So no one has got anything yet.

The deal was done in the tunnel and is rock solid. Its just a question of choreography and optics now. Various climb downs, personal career decisions to be taken, and how to present various parts of it to cause least offence to the more extreme ends of the spectrum in both directions.

A channel into it for Ireland is also likely to have been part of the consideration, although that will not start to unfold until the dust settles on the Brexit proper. Exciting times.

As an aside, I have a hunch this possibility was the motivation for Michael D going back on his one term pledge. The last President of Ireland was an opportunity to good for him to miss.

Avatar MIA

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The deal was done in the tunnel and is rock solid. Its just a question of choreography and optics now. Various climb downs, personal career decisions to be taken, and how to present various parts of it to cause least offence to the more extreme ends of the spectrum in both directions.

A channel into it for Ireland is also likely to have been part of the consideration, although that will not start to unfold until the dust settles on the Brexit proper. Exciting times.

As an aside, I have a hunch this possibility was the motivation for Michael D going back on his one term pledge. The last President of Ireland was an opportunity to good for him to miss.

There's a creative fiction forum around here somewhere. Your talents are wasted on us.

Hannibal_Smith

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The deal was done in the tunnel and is rock solid. Its just a question of choreography and optics now. Various climb downs, personal career decisions to be taken, and how to present various parts of it to cause least offence to the more extreme ends of the spectrum in both directions.

A channel into it for Ireland is also likely to have been part of the consideration, although that will not start to unfold until the dust settles on the Brexit proper. Exciting times.

As an aside, I have a hunch this possibility was the motivation for Michael D going back on his one term pledge. The last President of Ireland was an opportunity to good for him to miss.

But it has to be passed doesn't it? Otherwise it can't be finalised? What if the likes of Jacob Rees Moggs & co vote no and that exceeds those in favour? Can May still go ahead with the EU and finalise it?

The Rape of Lucretia

Its just some procedural elements that have to be run through.

All looking very happy and friendly this evening (from breaking news in the indo) :

Hannibal_Smith

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its just some procedural elements that have to be run through.

All looking very happy and friendly this evening (from breaking news in the indo) :

Voting it through parliament aren't procedural elements. What are Mays options if parliament vote to reject it? Can she still go ahead?

Frank Bullitt

Can't say I'm not enjoying seeing the DUP slowly realize that they have been used during all of this, and that May is basically sacrificing them.

Although I can't figure out how it took them this long. Idiots.

gmisk

Gintonious wrote: »

Can't say I'm not enjoying seeing the DUP slowly realize that they have been used during all of this, and that May is basically sacrificing them.

Although I can't figure out how it took them this long. Idiots.

When she sacrifices them she can always burn the evidence using the furnaces Arlene and a load of her mates have running constantly..

nice_guy80

If Sinn Fein had ANY sense they'd take their seats in Westminster and back the deal

dundalkfc10

nice_guy80 wrote: »

If Sinn Fein had ANY sense they'd take their seats in Westminster and back the deal

And go against what people elected them on?

Fann Linn

nice_guy80 wrote: »

If Sinn Fein had ANY sense they'd take their seats in Westminster and back the deal

Why?

Fann Linn

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its just some procedural elements that have to be run through.

All looking very happy and friendly this evening (from breaking news in the indo) :

Sammy won't like that photo.

If the Irish were doing something as incontrovertibly obtuse as Brexit is, you can be sure large sections of the British media and population would be resorting to their extensive cultural repository of "thick Paddy" stereotypes, and the sneering at our stupidity would be relentless.

I cannot conceive of a pig's ear that is this much of a mess. It is awesome how the English establishment, and it alone, is wholly responsible for the existence of every aspect of this mess, and the extent of each aspect.

The coming months & years will witness the great reckoning of British nationalism/the British rightwing as more and more educated English people will realise the lies upon which all that Europhobia rests. The great, long overdue end of Empire awakening.

BoatMad

At the end of the day , the DUP paradoxically has forced TM/UK into a very soft Brexit , Had the DUP not been propping up the UK , the Trois would have left NI in the SM/CU forever. Arlene misplayed a card here. The net effect of her demands is to handcuff the UK potentially forever into CU/SM Lite with the EU

circadian

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The UK looking like the cat that got the cream this evening. Those who laughed at the idea that it was possible to have ones cake and eat are the ones with egg on their faces.
And NI looking really to have got the plum deal. (Scotland bleating about how they have a lesser version, shows how good the deal is for all in NI).
And Varadkar :

How is your mood Taoiseach?
"Pretty good, this is one of the better days in politics".

- clearly excited at the possibility now open to Ireland to Breune with the same deal as NI, or even with a few bonus bells and whistles. Timing looks right for a 2022 Centenary Breunion deal.

Breunion? What in the utter **** is that? Did you just make up a word for a scenario with a likelihood of less than zero?

Breunion? Christ almighty.

BoatMad

circadian wrote: »

Breunion? What in the utter **** is that? Did you just make up a word for a scenario with a likelihood of less than zero?

Breunion? Christ almighty.

as bad as " Brexit" surely

4068ac1elhodqr

She is having a long nightmare of sorts, and the only real aternative to refusing what she's is told to accept is these two running the entire show:
Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbot.


Then there's the question of an Independent Alba on the cards in a few years, which would further isolate the North from Britain.

Reckon in about 5-10yrs she'll retire to somewhere over in Canada where there is plenty of Orange Halls and a very rich Ulster-Scots heritage.
Fly-fishing, skiing, country walks/marches and all that jazz without all the mayhem of politics.

_Whimsical_

Deleted User wrote: »

If the Irish were doing something as incontrovertibly obtuse as Brexit is, you can be sure large sections of the British media and population would be resorting to their extensive cultural repository of "thick Paddy" stereotypes, and the sneering at our stupidity would be relentless.

I cannot conceive of a pig's ear that is this much of a mess. It is awesome how the English establishment, and it alone, is wholly responsible for the existence of every aspect of this mess, and the extent of each aspect.

The coming months & years will witness the great reckoning of British nationalism/the British rightwing as more and more educated English people will realise the lies upon which all that Europhobia rests. The great, long overdue end of Empire awakening.

Oh they've already found creative yet polite ways to stir us into the pot for some thinnly veiled insults...

In a discussion on Tuesday night on Sky News "what's making the newspaper headline"s, ProBrexit Brendan O'Neill said that by Britain acknowledging our desire to prevent a reoccurrence of "the troubles" in the negotiations they were actually being racist towards us, that it was basically an inference that "the Irish are genetically predisposed towards violence".
(No mention of themselves being genetically predisposed to disregarding history as it suits them.)

Of course he was claiming we were not, but it was quite chilling to hear us being spoken of like that, couched in polite terms, but the underlying sentiment rang clearly through, that we were "other" and "less than". I haven't heard anyone express anything like it on tv before.

Laois_Man

I don't know what people think Arlene Foster could have done differently that would have brought about a better result from her point of view

If the DUP hadn't had Teresa May over a barrel since the last general election, Northern Ireland would have been thrown under the bus as long ago as last December and the border down the Irish sea would be all set up and ready to go on March 29th next year!

Besides, it's a long way from over yet!