Arlene Foster, single-handedly and unintentionally paving the way forward for a UI

Laois_Man

cgcsb wrote: »

From where have you plucked these numbers?
The way the NI deficit is calculated, not even Whitehall knows for sure how much it costs.

I Googled it!

Usually when a politician says they don't know what something is costing, it's because they are trying to avoid political heat - a bit like when successive Irish Governments said they didn't know who the Bondholders were!

cgcsb

Laois_Man wrote: »

I Googled it!

Usually when a politician says they don't know what something is costing, it's because they are trying to avoid political heat - a bit like when successive Irish Governments said they didn't know who the Bondholders were!

Whitehall doesn't know how much it costs. All you have is simplistic sums. The UK calculates regional deficits/surplus by adding all UK revenue, deducting UK wide spending and apportioning by region then they compare whats left vs what's spent in each region. The figures that get bandied about as NI's alleged spending deficit included things that simply wouldn't apply to it in a UI, NI's share of Trident and the Royal family would be written off for example, as would their share of servicing UK's £14 trillion debt. Even at 3% of the UK's population these are considerable sums of expenditure that are included in the deficit.

The best attempt at unpicking NI's deficit was done by the IMF recently and estimated it to be about balanced.

facehugger99

cgcsb wrote: »

The best attempt at unpicking NI's deficit was done by the IMF recently and estimated it to be about balanced.

Over 30% of the population working for the public service and they're "balanced"?

Fairy stories.

end of the road

facehugger99 wrote: »

Over 30% of the population working for the public service and they're "balanced"?

Fairy stories.

nope not fairy stories. unless you are suggesting that the IMF don't know what they are doing?

cgcsb

facehugger99 wrote: »

Over 30% of the population working for the public service and they're "balanced"?

Fairy stories.

About as realistic as including the maintenance of Buckingham Palace, the Trident missile program, £14trillion loan interest, a £1trillion military presence in the middle east, HS2, Heathrow expansion,Crossrail and so on in NI budget gap.

murpho999

jmayo wrote: »

You don't have much of a country without an economy.

Contrary to some of a certain persuasion you can't just go out and nick more money when you feel like it.

It is always marvelous how many are for saddling the Irish state i.e. the ROI, with the massive cost of trying to run NI when in all likelihood it aint going to be them paying the increased taxes. :rolleyes:

And it is not just the case of all those public servants it is the case of increasing our police and military spending ten fold to cope with those loyalists who are going to be malcontented.

And someone claiming they can pee off just shows how freaking childish their argument is and how little they have thought about the long term consequences.

Of course an economy is important but that can be worked on.

People are talking as if NI has not economy at all.

If NI was to join Ireland, then it has to be under peaceful and democratic circumstances. All Unionist parties would have to be on board and convince their people to join. Like what happened in 98 with The Good Friday Agreement.

Then you can have united country and no need to increase police or military spending. Ten fold is a ridiculous figure you quote anyway.

Also remember that the existence of NI was not democratically brought about or asked to the people it was just foisted on them.

If this were achieved, then deals can be worked out with UK and EU for financial stimulus and support and the economy can be boosted

Ireland’s economy was a mess when it became independent and was held back for years by protectionist policies. That would not happen know and it’s possible to boost the economy of the north.

As I said it should not be a reason to hold back a push for unification. Scotland did this in 2014, voted to remain part of the UK, mostly due to fear of economic woes and I’d say a lot regret that know when they see the mess and uncertainiy that face them.

If people want it enough then it can happen.

ancapailldorcha

murpho999 wrote: »

People are talking as if NI has not economy at all.

That's not far off the mark though. It needs to be worked into calculations that NI is hugely dependent on the public sector, much more than is healthy for a modern, Western economy. What little private sector there is is likely to be little more than amenities, farming, tourist sites and the like.

There's an economic cost to attaining a UI and this needs to be addressed in any arguments for reunification or it is doomed to fail.

smelly sock

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, that worked out really well the other way. Born in the six counties, British. If you don't like it leave.

Everyone left peacefully and without incident, right? :rolleyes:

Violence and acceptance is the single biggest issue facing unification, and the main reason that could cause us to vote against it. I don't want some backwards animals setting off bombs in an argument over meaningless ideas like nationality.

It was and still is a war in the North.

What are youre thoughts on Devalera and Collins? Terrorists I suppose.

Simon Uninterested Gray

Simon Uninterested Gray wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/update-tory-mps-submit-letters-calling-for-no-confidence-vote-in-theresa-may-885742.html

So now we have the UFU, in addition to NI business leaders calling for support for a deal. What in God’s name is wrong with the DUP? Its like dealing with the Orange version of ISIS if you want to compare blind faith beliefs.

josip

cgcsb wrote: »

...would be written off for example, as would their share of servicing UK's £14 trillion debt..

Curious to know why this would be written off?
They have contributed to this debt, at least as much per capita as the rest of the UK.

Laois_Man

Reports as to the size of the UKs debt vary massively

Anyway, here's the actual IMF report

https://senatormarkdaly.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/research-on-northern-ireland-income-and-expenditure.pdf

I see Denis O'Brien has just been interviewed on Bloomberg over in America, where he remarked “The United Kingdom looks to me like an emerging market at the moment, there is so much chaos.”(Markets: 'U.K. Like Emerging Market Amid Chaos, Richest Irish Man Says')

Is "emerging market" a synonym for third world country/banana republic, etc? Ouch.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Is "emerging market" a synonym for third world country/banana republic, etc? Ouch.

Its a synonym for a country with a great future for business, growth, and rising prosperity for its citizens. He is spot on.

steddyeddy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its a synonym for a country with a great future for business, growth, and rising prosperity for its citizens. He is spot on.

Unicorns and pots of gold under the rainbows too!

Duckworth_Luas

NIMAN

I heard a report on the radio about how a lot of leading groups in NI like the CBI, Farmers Union, industry leaders etc have all welcomed the Brexit deal, saying its great for NI that they have the ability to continue selling to RoI, Europe as well as UK as normal.

Yet the DUP have a totally different view to the people they represent, claiming its a bad deal, and want a harsher deal simply so that they can be like their big brother in England.

Its time they got over their whole Britishness nonsense. They are being handed a great deal, they should be grabbing it with both hands if they have any interest in the province doing well.

The high horse brigade

NIMAN wrote: »

I heard a report on the radio about how a lot of leading groups in NI like the CBI, Farmers Union, industry leaders etc have all welcomed the Brexit deal, saying its great for NI that they have the ability to continue selling to RoI, Europe as well as UK as normal.

Yet the DUP have a totally different view to the people they represent, claiming its a bad deal, and want a harsher deal simply so that they can be like their big brother in England.

Its time they got over their whole Britishness nonsense. They are being handed a great deal, they should be grabbing it with both hands if they have any interest in the province doing well.

Turkeys voting for Christmas

The Rape of Lucretia

There are a lot of bitter people around, disappointed that they cannot indulge themselves in unrestrained schadenfreude. The disturbing truth for them is that the UK has done what they believed would not be possible - have their cake and eat it. The joke is on the other foot and its not laughing now.

Sure there are benefits and disadvantages to being in the EU. And for being outside it. And nutters on both ends of the Europhile and Little Englander spectrum. But Prime Minister May has pulled off an extraordinary middle ground here that delivers the best of both worlds. It was never going to satisfy the ideologues at the extreme ends, but, despite their noise, they are few anyway.
This deal really sets sail for a very bright future indeed for the UK; in trade with the EU, competitive advantage over the EU, and the freedom to conquer the wider trade world once more.

Britannia can indeed rule the waves once more.

And Ireland can be part of that great journey if it has the gumption to recognise it.

Duckworth_Luas

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Britannia can indeed rule the waves once more.

end of the road

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

There are a lot of bitter people around, disappointed that they cannot indulge themselves in unrestrained schadenfreude. The disturbing truth for them is that the UK has done what they believed would not be possible - have their cake and eat it. The joke is on the other foot and its not laughing now.

Sure there are benefits and disadvantages to being in the EU. And for being outside it. And nutters on both ends of the Europhile and Little Englander spectrum. But Prime Minister May has pulled off an extraordinary middle ground here that delivers the best of both worlds. It was never going to satisfy the ideologues at the extreme ends, but, despite their noise, they are few anyway.
This deal really sets sail for a very bright future indeed for the UK; in trade with the EU, competitive advantage over the EU, and the freedom to conquer the wider trade world once more.

Britannia can indeed rule the waves once more.

And Ireland can be part of that great journey if it has the gumption to recognise it.

nope fake news. very few on either side are happy with the deal. uk media especially talk radio stations over in the uk will show you this.
absolutely it was the best deal that was ever going to be got in the circumstances, but by no means is it better or comparible to what is currently existing, nor is it having cake and eating it. the uk has no real competitive advantage over the EU and it is currently trading with anyone who it can trade with either via the EU or by itself. any new trade deal they may get will likely have similar conditions attached such as freedom of movement etc.
ireland will not be rejoining the uk no matter how much you go on about it. there is virtually no demand for it on either side of the water.

The Rape of Lucretia

I think these people know a good thing when they see, and look how keen they are to join the party :

"Migrants pile into dinghies to cross Channel to Dover as 'panic setting in' before Brexit deadline hits"


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/16/migrants-pile-dinghies-cross-channel-dover-panic-sets-brexit/

road_high

end of the road wrote: »

nope fake news. very few on either side are happy with the deal. uk media especially talk radio stations over in the uk will show you this.
absolutely it was the best deal that was ever going to be got in the circumstances, but by no means is it better or comparible to what is currently existing, nor is it having cake and eating it. the uk has no real competitive advantage over the EU and it is currently trading with anyone who it can trade with either via the EU or by itself. any new trade deal they may get will likely have similar conditions attached such as freedom of movement etc.
ireland will not be rejoining the uk no matter how much you go on about it. there is virtually no demand for it on either side of the water.

Where do some people get this ireland “rejoining the UK” rubbish? In my 34 years on this planet I’ve not ever met, spoken to a single Irish soul that ever raised this. It’s so off the richter with the Irish psyche that doesn't register in the subconscious.
If anything this whole debacle is a reminder to us all to be very very grateful for our hard won Independence from London even though part of the country unfortunately is stuck there (for now).
I look forward to moving even further beyond that as the proportion of our UK trade continues to drop in overall % terms as we continue to increase our global reach.

road_high

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think these people know a good thing when they see, and look how keen they are to join the party :

"Migrants pile into dinghies to cross Channel to Dover as 'panic setting in' before Brexit deadline hits"


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/16/migrants-pile-dinghies-cross-channel-dover-panic-sets-brexit/

Wtf has this got to do with illegal migrants from Iran? Are things going to be stricter for such illegals post EU?!

You seem almost excited by the prospect migrants chose England as if to feed some kind of “everyone wants to be us” deep seated need.

Snarlene and her gang of fellow bible thumpers seem quite quiet since Wednesday evening. I wonder are the many voices in favour of this deal from within the NI business community and especially the agricultural sector, where there would be a considerable number of DUP voters, causing them to consider their position?

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

Snarlene and her gang of fellow bible thumpers seem quite quiet since Wednesday evening. I wonder are the many voices in favour of this deal from within the NI business community and especially the agricultural sector, where there would be a considerable number of DUP voters, causing them to consider their position?

Was wondering about that too. Their knee jerk reaction is always Never, Never, Never.

And the DUP leadership, while being quite resolute, would never be charged with high inteligence (e.g. RHI). Their grass roots may have since pointed out how good a deal (achieved somewhat by the Irish Government) this is for N.I. Lets see if they value their face and not cut off their collective noses.

And finally, on the off chance someone from the DUP is reading this, can you please ask your leadership (Foster, Dodds and Jeffrey) to stop using variations of the phrase, 'let me make myself clear...' Do they realise how moronic they sound when they use it. All the more ironic when they think it lends them authority. It just makes them sound dumb, as if I really found this concept quite diffficult myself and so I'll treat you as thick as I am.

steddyeddy

But how many things have the DUP said never to which ended up happening anyway? They were the only party in NI to not sign up to the GFA.

steddyeddy

It seems unbelievable coming from from the leader of a party in power in Northern Ireland but Arelene Foster's annoyed that business leaders in NI like the latest Brexit deal. Do people still think she's fighting for her community?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/foster-annoyed-at-ni-business-leaders-support-for-brexit-deal-1.3700531?mode=amp

Necro

Avatar MIA wrote:

Was wondering about that too. Their knee jerk reaction is always Never, Never, Never.

And yet they have not brought down the government by withdrawing their confidence and supply arrangement.

Grandstanding methinks. Will end up abstaining or even voting in favour of the deal in the end imo.

Necro

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

Its a synonym for a country with a great future for business, growth, and rising prosperity for its citizens. He is spot on.

You sir/madam, need a reality check.

Or keep on trolling. Whatever suits you best.

steddyeddy

Northern Irish businesses go head to head with the DUP. The DUP says "they're wrong and haven't read the agreement". I feel sorry for unionists and nationalists in Northern Ireland.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/17/dup-northern-ireland-brexit-deal-ulster-farmers-union