Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

_Whimsical_

I surprise myself by agreeing with him on a few issues. I do agree with him on the traveler issue. I've no problem respecting their past, giving opportunity to those from the traveler community in the present and future, but why enshrine respect for a social,even cultural construct, that needlessly perpetuates a cycle of poor infant mortality,reduced life span of members,often living in disgraceful conditions by choice, poor engagement with education and almost no employment.

By holding it up as a valid option we are denying small babies born into that community everyday a chance to ever achieve their full potential and in some cases we're confining them to living conditions lots would consider a breach of human rights. The idea that it be state-sanctioned and rubber stamped appalls me, much more for those innocent kids than for the tax payer. No state policy or stance on an issue should sacrifice young lives and their potential to inculcate them into a dream that offers them nothing.

end of the road

doylefe wrote: »

If he apologises or rows back any bit at all in the debate tonight, he's not worth voting for.

He needs to double down on what he said. He should have a go at that Cash one.

i'm unsure if he is worth voting for anyway, regardless of his comments. in saying that, he has made his comments and should stand by them and own them now, unless he genuinely does come to the conclusion that he is incorrect either on some, or all of what he said.
as it stands, an apology would essentially be about being seen to apologize and he wouldn't mean it, so there is and would be no point.

MFPM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I genuinely feel that all the support Casey is getting is because he said something that many are afraid to say. Because you get labeled as "right wing loon", "racist", "victim blamer".

There is some crazy stats about members of the traveller ethnic group and crime. They account for like .8% of the population yet account for 20% of prison population.

They also cling on their "culture" as an excuse to live in squalor yet driving around in expensive cars. Expecting the government to cover to cost of housing them & their pony's.

They also have no interest to education as they don't seem to value it. When they can make money via crime, cash work & tax avoidance.

This isn't all members of said ethnic group, but fairly sizable minority, or even a small majority.

There is some crazy stats about members of the traveller ethnic group and crime. They account for like .8% of the population yet account for 20% of prison population.

Would you say the prison population of settled people from Dublin 1 is far higher than Dublin 4 - are you going to generalsie against those in Dublin 1. What might account for the difference do you think?

MFPM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Apologies. No one in the Traveller "movement" would ever sully themselves to work.

I see you wish to postulate the same type of ignorant generalties as Casey, good to know. Go the 1-2% #Aras18!

PlaneSpeeking

MFPM wrote: »

Would you say the prison population of settled people from Dublin 1 is far higher than Dublin 4 - are you going to generalsie against those in Dublin 1. What might account for the difference do you think?

If you can tell me that the people of D1 are a "protected ethnic minority" who get away with all kinds, it might be acceptable as a comparison.

As it stands it's pure whataboutery by another name.

jobbridge4life

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Apologies. No one in the Traveller "movement" would ever sully themselves to work.

You might tell that to David Joyce, solicitor, who has condemned Casey's comments.

PlaneSpeeking

MFPM wrote: »

I see you wish to postulate the same type of ignorant generalties as Casey, good to know. Go the 1-2% #Aras18!

One link - to a Traveller success story where they went to school, not "known to Gardai" and are currently gainfully employed and making a positive difference to society.

One, that's all. Can't be too hard eh ? :rolleyes:

Mind though, there's dozens if not hundreds of rebuttal pieces available easily.

MFPM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So, nothing other than your opinion. No actual tangible proof.

As I suspected.

You got my 'opinion' from stating facts. Why don't you trouble yourself with an educative process - check out the state's traveler policy, stats from the Census and CSO, it's all there for anyone with a modicum of intellect to source, I'm not sure you fit that category but perhaps you have or can locate a ten year old to help you out.

Hotblack Desiato

mcmoustache wrote: »

I knew the yanks and the brits were gullible but I thought we were a bit smarter than that.

[Insert obligatory "He fixed the road" / Healy-Rae / Lowry reference here]

c.p.w.g.w

MFPM wrote: »

Would you say the prison population of settled people from Dublin 1 is far higher than Dublin 4 - are you going to generalsie against those in Dublin 1. What might account for the difference do you think?

There a numerous factors. But there is obviously something wrong with one ethnic group who account for such a small percentage of the population making up 1/5 of the prison population.

Their culture & way of life isn't in line with the rest of society. That's why they make up a large part of prison population.

They also give nothing positive back to society, yet take so much and expect so much more

PlaneSpeeking

jobbridge4life wrote: »

You might tell that to David Joyce, solicitor, who has condemned Casey's comments.

Sure, yeah.

end of the road

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

And he said that when exactly ?

his comments were in a podcast, the section of it which had his comments was played on the niall boylan show today.

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Either that or you "work" in Pavee Point, yes.

so it's more likely that peter's comments are out of line with the thoughts of much of the public, including that poster's co-workers, then it is that that poster works for pavee point.

PlaneSpeeking

MFPM wrote: »

You got my 'opinion' from stating facts. Why don't you trouble yourself with an educative process - check out the state's traveler policy, stats from the Census and CSO, it's all there for anyone with a modicum of intellect to source, I'm not sure you fit that category but perhaps you have or can locate a ten year old to help you out.

Oh classy. Not.

mcmoustache

ArrBee wrote: »

I think ppl are applauding him for putting out there as a discussion point more so than expecting him to win and subsequently "fix" anything.

It's relief that I see being expressed in this thread, that it can be talked about beyond the confines of AH as it would appear the sentiment here is shared elsewhere.

I would also add that those saying they will now vote for this casey fella are doing so as a protest to send some message on how they feel about the topic.
I mean, it's the presidency, doesn't really matter anyway right?

It's true that the presidency doesn't really matter but you do need someone who won't put their foot in it abroad and that's about it.

Regarding speaking out about travellers, I haven't had an issue doing so in the real world. Back home, when the travellers are about, we matter-of-factly discuss securing our homes and belongings and keep an eye out on the roads for them. I would imagine that this is the case all over the country side.

I do agree that the dublin media and the right-on types do get outraged at the idea that traveller behaviour could be responsible for how they are viewed by the rest of us but that's hardly being silenced. The consensus around Ireland seems to be that having travellers about is bad news and and this consensus is from actual experience and bad interactions.

I just think that voting for someone because of their views on one topic is silly, particularly when it's a leader playing the us-and-them game.

wexie

Vincent Vega wrote: »

But why does that come into it?
Us accepting or disliking a tradition has little to do with its validity as one. Don't reckon too many of us would be keen on a certain Jewish tradition either but we leave them to it...

That said, I feel certain traditions have obviously seen better days and are well at odds with modern society.

Because traditions can, do and should change if they no longer fit in society, or have been found to be harmful.

There used to be people in the Canaries that had a tradition of throwing children of the cliffs into the sea during the summer solstice, many tribes in Indonesia had traditions of cannibalism.

Just because something is 'tradition' doesn't and shouldn't automatically mean it is something to be cherished or protected.

While there may well be Traveler traditions that should indeed be cherished and protected* I think we can both agree there are some that they would be better of without.

mcmoustache

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

There a numerous factors. But there is obviously something wrong with one ethnic group who account for such a small percentage of the population making up 1/5 of the prison population.

Their culture & way of life isn't in line with the rest of society. That's why they make up a large part of prison population.

They also give nothing positive back to society, yet take so much and expect so much more

That's one issue.

Voting for someone because of their pandering to that fear is a separate issue.

JMNolan

Does Peter have a campaign website? I can only find his own website. Want to show my support.

MFPM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

One link - to a Traveller success story where they went to school, not "known to Gardai" and are currently gainfully employed and making a positive difference to society.

One, that's all. Can't be too hard eh ? :rolleyes:

Mind though, there's dozens if not hundreds of rebuttal pieces available easily.

You said one, didn't you....



https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/traveller-and-roma-students-graduate-470202.html

I'll await the but, but, but.....

MFPM

JMNolan wrote: »

Does Peter have a campaign website? I can only find his own website. Want to show my support.

He needs it, his support is within the margin or error in the polls.

myshirt

These dragons are stalking horses for Sean Gallagher.

MFPM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

If you can tell me that the people of D1 are a "protected ethnic minority" who get away with all kinds, it might be acceptable as a comparison.

As it stands it's pure whataboutery by another name.

You clearly don't understand the concept of 'whataboutery' given you've just engaged in it, now care to answer the question I posed or are you content with bullsh!tting?

mcmoustache

Outside of him disliking tinkers, is there anything else about him that would compel people to vote for him? Or is it just the tinkers thing?

MFPM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

There a numerous factors. But there is obviously something wrong with one ethnic group who account for such a small percentage of the population making up 1/5 of the prison population.

Their culture & way of life isn't in line with the rest of society. That's why they make up a large part of prison population.

They also give nothing positive back to society, yet take so much and expect so much more

There are numerous factors yet you didn't mention one instead you went back to travellers - now try again.

mikeym

I wonder what outspooken John Connors has to say.


https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


He says Peter Casey is being racist. Although travelling people are white like myself.

jimgoose

mikeym wrote: »

I wonder what outspooken John Connors has to say.


https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


He says Peter Casey is being racist. Although travelling people are white like myself.

This idiot doesn't know what "racist" means, any more than he can spell "allowed". He should stick to busting Terminators with his Ma.

Beechwoodspark

I hope he doesn’t back down tonight in the debate.

Make no mistake all the other candidates will be trying to demonise him for daring to speak up on this issue.

Michael D doing his “shocked and appalled” routine will definitely lose him respect and some votes but it’s hard to see anyone beating him going by the poll figures.

Vincent Vega

wexie wrote: »

Because traditions can, do and should change if they no longer fit in society, or have been found to be harmful.

There used to be people in the Canaries that had a tradition of throwing children of the cliffs into the sea during the summer solstice, many tribes in Indonesia had traditions of cannibalism.

Just because something is 'tradition' doesn't and shouldn't automatically mean it is something to be cherished or protected.

While there may well be Traveler traditions that should indeed be cherished and protected* I think we can both agree there are some that they would be better of without.

Sure, I wouldn't disagree with that.

Any mention of tradition was primarily on topic in attempting to highlight what comes into consideration when defining an ethnic group.

What should and shouldn't be protected is an entirely different argument that I've no interest in engaging in now, nor would I have a definite side to stand on if I were to.

I have many issues with certain aspects of Traveller culture and how they have evolved poorly or in some cases failed to entirely.

yabadabado

mikeym wrote: »

I wonder what outspooken John Connors has to say.


https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


He says Peter Casey is being racist. Although travelling people are white like myself.

That poor ****er doesn't know what racism is.
He shouldn't be aloud on twitter:eek:

mcmoustache

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I hope he doesn’t back down tonight in the debate.

Make no mistake all the other candidates will be trying to demonise him for daring to speak up on this issue.

Michael doing his “shocked and appalled” routine will definitely lose him respect and some votes but it’s hard to see anyone beating him going by the poll figures.

I think you're actually correct here. Michael's view on it is definitely at odds with most people, particularly from rural areas. If he tries to paint them as poor victims it won't sit well with a lot of people. I doubt he'll call him a racist but if he did, it would also be self-defeating.

I really hope travellers don't become the issue of the campaign.

Ipso

How is the different ethnicity defined?