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The left this, the right that..
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A myth perpetrated by DUP members mostly.rossie1977 wrote: »It's interesting that we have many fans of the US Republican party on AH considering the closest party ideologically to them around this part of the world would be the DUP.
There aren't the issues with historical plantation and abuse of Irish that the DUP have.
(If you're going to mention slavery, the situations were not the same at all)0 -
She was also the loony liberal who allowed unchecked immigration to the EU.
She can label herself as left, right, centre or anything she wants but unchecked immigration is liberal lefty bs
I just have to read those phrases and I know that you have nothing to contribute other than shouting empty phrases.
blah blah blah dem liberals :rolleyes:
If the right stopped drooling long enough to put bandages on their bleeding knuckles they might even come up with a coherent argument one day.0 -
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If it's a pointless argument why have you a) clicked into the thread, given that the title of the thread is the basis for this "argument" or b) continued it.
As Urban Dictionary is the one true source, I shall let it have my final say on this facetious and pointless debate.
A) because people were wrong and I can’t help myself.
I can’t help myself. they/them/theirs
And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek
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dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »I just have to read those phrases and I know that you have nothing to contribute other than shouting empty phrases.
blah blah blah dem liberals :rolleyes:
If the right stopped drooling long enough to put bandages on their bleeding knuckles they might even come up with a coherent argument one day.
If the liberal left took their head out of their anal cavity and realised what they were doing (like the highlighted parts of the above post) is pushing more people to the right, they wouldn't lose so many issues.
The right in Europe is on the rise, even in Germany where people would think it was impossible since WW2, the rise of parties like AFD, in sweden the rise of the right is happening too... one of the most lefty liberal havens with high taxes and a welfare state.0 -
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CinemaGuy45 wrote: »Female/male bricklayers
Female/male rubbish collectors
Female/male order pickers
Female/male boncers
Good mate of mine works a job CCTVing sewers and manholes. It's a tough, dirty but very well paid job. Often he'll have to climb into manholes and shimmy along sewers up to his knees in ****, condoms, tampons and syringes. The workforce is 100% male.
I'd love to see how many women would take up a position like that even if they were paid twice as much as men, had twice as much leave and all maternity and parental benefits were doubled. I'd still say it would be a male workforce.
Some women only want equality in the desirable jobs but are quite happy to leave the dirty and dangerous work to males.0 -
If the liberal left took their head out of their anal cavity and realised what they were doing (like the highlighted parts of the above post) is pushing more people to the right, they wouldn't lose so many issues.
See. Here we go again. The “liberal left”, it’s a phrase that means NOTHING.
Are you talking about everyone from social democrats to anarchists? Or are you talking about some specific sub set of progressive social activists?The right in Europe is on the rise, even in Germany where people would think it was impossible since WW2, the rise of parties like AFD, in sweden the rise of the right is happening too... one of the most lefty liberal havens with high taxes and a welfare state.
The right isn’t on the rise. Far right extremists are. The middle is getting obliterated is a typhoon of hyperbole. Hyperbole like you claiming Merkel believes in unchecked illegal immigration.
Try being part of the solution.they/them/theirs
And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek
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See. Here we go again. The “liberal left”, it’s a phrase that means NOTHING.
Are you talking about everyone from social democrats to anarchists? Or are you talking about some specific sub set of progressive social activists?
The right isn’t on the rise. Far right extremists are. The middle is getting obliterated is a typhoon of hyperbole. Hyperbole like you claiming Merkel believes in unchecked illegal immigration.
Try being part of the solution.
See, here we go again.
"The right isn’t on the rise.", it’s a phrase that means NOTHING.
"Hyperbole", "Try being part of the solution" etc the same.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »No there isn't equality here.
We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's
If "having equal amounts of X" is the criteria for "equality" think then we'd have to conclude that we might never achieve equality.
Worse than that we might need to conclude that equality of this type is not even desirable.
Nobody really seems to consider the potential cost of achieving this kind of equality.
I would imagine that social engineering on this scale would require a certain amount of enforcement? What do you do if an unforeseen change in society leads women to say "actually I'd rather stay at home with the kids" and men say "fine by me, I will go for that promotion".
If it's absolutely required by society that we have a 50/50 split in stay at home parents then we are going to have to take away people's choices. What happens when the quota starts to fill up and you have filled out all the female stay at home parents spots but there are way more women who want to be stay at home parents? In the end. How would it be enforced? What happens to those who refuse to "play ball"?
The only solution I've heard to this is to somehow try and circumvent "unconscious bias" by undoing the perception that the woman stays at home and the man goes to work. So if we get into people's minds at a young age they will be less inclined to believe that being an electrician is a "man's job".
This seems fine on the surface. I mean, why should kids grow up believing that they can only fulfill a limited range of roles? That is kind of true though. After all, even if we get the number of company CEOs to an even gender split only about 1% of all kids will become CEOs anyway so what do we do with the other 99% who actually WILL conform to basic roles such as simply doing a basic job and earning a wage and spending that wage and that's their life?
We want to tell kids "you can be anything you want to be" but that's a flat out lie.
But what if we were saying "you'll be what we tell you to be" isn't that worse?
Sure, we would erase the standard traditional gender roles but, if everything needs to be 50/50, we'd be replacing that with "well we have too many female teachers this year Mary so you'll have to be an electrician". It's arguably even more restrictive that standard gender roles, no?
Would it even ever come down to 50/50 anyway? Surely the current conversation surrounding gender itself is a spanner in the works?
What if I don't identify as a man or a woman? Now I'm gonna screw with your 50/50 equality dream.
If gender is a spectrum and I can self-identify then it's already over because this concept that "50% needs to be male and 50% needs to be female" needs to be scrapped immediately. You have left no space for people who identify as neither.
A big criticism I would have for "The Left" is that they have big ideas for what a perfect society should look like but there's no real exploration of the cost of bringing that perfect society into existence.
That's why it's so funny to watch TERFs go into complete meltdown right now. These folks spent so much time building "men" up as some big and ultimate evil only for the late 2010s to come along and everyone says "well anyone can self identify as whatever they want" and they can see the writing on the wall.
You can't browbeat people over male privilege when they can just turn round and say "nah, I don't identify as male, now kindly f*ck off".
Think about this:
In your OP the first two points you've attributed to "The Left" are 1 - Equality among sexes and 2 - Recognising different genders exist.
BUT just a few posts later you are talking about "equal amount of female/male in occupation X". What happened to recognizing different genders exist?
So right there you are actually creating one of the main issues I think people have with "The Left". Contradictory beliefs that preachers like yourself shift between depending on what suits.
Another example of badness on the Left would be things like "Men can't be sexist against Women".
So, I a person is totally TOTALLY against sexism you would think that there would be some kind of introspection and erasure of one's own biases.
This doesn't seem to happen though. What happens really is that people think "well, I hate sexism BUT I kind of also hate men" and instead of breaking down their own bias they come up with a "workaround". In this case "sexism is prejudice plus power".
You can see the same with racism.
From that I conclude that while the Right are kind of unashamedly prejudiced in a lot of ways the Left are very interested in coming up with ways to justify prejudice.
It's fine if "The Left" want to tell me I have whatever privileges and brow beat me and come up with ways to say "well it is really because you are white and male but here's the workaround for why it's not one of the X-isms when I do it". I just think it's embarrassing.
But then they want to ask for my vote? Or beg me to be an ally? Haha. F*ck off.
The Left: "White straight males are the most destructive force in human history".
The Left: "women can't be sexist towards men, POC can't be racist towards whites".
The Left: "you're an alt-right nazi incel rape apologist scum bag"
The Left: "please, won't you vote for us"
Hm, I really wonder why people started leaning right...
Yes, so much of the far right is absolutely toxic. Fuelled by hatred and bigotry, for sure. BUT they keep it under wraps. In a sense, they are playing a far better public relations game right now. That REALLY shouldn't be the case but it is.
FFS we live in a world where f'ing UKIP are able to freely and demonstrably hold themselves up as defenders of free speech and opposition to censorship. UKIP!
How long before being "anti-authoritarian" is seen as a far right talking point?
The Left is essentially doing recruitment for The Right at the moment and it seems like it's been that way for a few years.0 -
TheBoyConor wrote: »Good mate of mine works a job CCTVing sewers and manholes. It's a tough, dirty but very well paid job. Often he'll have to climb into manholes and shimmy along sewers up to his knees in ****, condoms, tampons and syringes. The workforce is 100% male.
I'd love to see how many women would take up a position like that even if they were paid twice as much as men, had twice as much leave and all maternity and parental benefits were doubled. I'd still say it would be a male workforce.
Some women only want equality in the desirable jobs but are quite happy to leave the dirty and dangerous work to males.
Amen sister!
"We want to get into STEM".
Yeah, cos you don't want to get into landfills.0 -
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Women do plenty of **** jobs though. NICU nurses must have some of the highest stress and distress of any jobs, and their money and status in no way reflects that. I'd venture to say that few men would sign up. Personally I'd happily wade into a sewer given the choice between the two.
In general the presence of women on teams tends to improve the efficacy of the team. It's like the way having a sister has benefits for siblings in terms of social development and composure. These are obviously generalisations, but they are real. More women involved in male dominated careers therefore could be expected to be beneficial to the fields. That said, it is also true that technical anf mathematical proficiency is greater in males than females, taking each as a group. So even adjusting for all social factors, without meddling, more males will become good in STEM roles than females.0 -
Corinne Handsome Joint wrote: »Women do plenty of **** jobs though. NICU nurses must have some of the highest stress and distress of any jobs, and their money and status in no way reflects that. I'd venture to say that few men would sign up. Personally I'd happily wade into a sewer given the choice between the two.
In general the presence of women on teams tends to improve the efficacy of the team. It's like the way having a sister has benefits for siblings in terms of social development and composure. These are obviously generalisations, but they are real. More women involved in male dominated careers therefore could be expected to be beneficial to the fields. That said, it is also true that technical anf mathematical proficiency is greater in males than females, taking each as a group. So even adjusting for all social factors, without meddling, more males will become good in STEM roles than females.
Not the word I'd have chosen!
Like hearing my "social justice campaigner" colleague who proudly said "the reason we are not the number one university in the world is that we have a male registrar and a male President".
Women are not better than men and men are not better than women.0 -
Right. We are different though, and have different but complementary traits.PlaneSpeeking wrote: »Not the word I'd have chosen!
Like hearing my "social justice campaigner" colleague who proudly said "the reason we are not the number one university in the world is that we have a male registrar and a male President".
Women are not better than men and men are not better than women.0 -
Corinne Handsome Joint wrote: »Right. We are different though, and have different but complementary traits.
Absolutely! Vive les diffrences!0 -
See, here we go again.
"The right isn’t on the rise.", it’s a phrase that means NOTHING.
I did quantify that statement by pointing out its the extreme right that’s on the rise and squeezing out the middle. You could try countering that assertion instead of being silly."Hyperbole", "Try being part of the solution" etc the same.
Again. I clarified what I thought was hyperbole. I thought being part of the solution by not indulging in hyperbole was obvious.they/them/theirs
And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek
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If the liberal left took their head out of their anal cavity and realised what they were doing (like the highlighted parts of the above post) is pushing more people to the right, they wouldn't lose so many issues.
The right in Europe is on the rise, even in Germany where people would think it was impossible since WW2, the rise of parties like AFD, in sweden the rise of the right is happening too... one of the most lefty liberal havens with high taxes and a welfare state.
Well, if one looks at Brexit, Hungary (and some other Eastern European countries), Austria, America under Trump and, as you said, Germany and even Sweden, it does seem that there is a global problem.
Why though? Are these people so pissed off by gender equality, environmental responsibility, social awareness and care for the less well off that they have to start a violent revolution on the streets? Are they wistfully looking back at the times where people who didn't agree with the regime where rounded up in Ghettos and put in internment camps? Do they maybe miss war, hunger, poverty and having to fear for your life if you said somethng wrong?
If they are, than they are nothing but a bunch of idiotic dunderheads that are bored and are looking for trouble.
What are they complaining about? The longest period of unbroken peace in Europe? Jobs and prosperity? One has to remember that we are complaining on a very high level. A lot of it is people who struggle to afford the lates fcuking iPhone, a new car AND a holiday and now they scream blue murder about immigrants. I have no time for crybabies like that. People who throw a sh*t fit because they don't get their way. because Mammy told them only THEY are special, and the WHOL world should listen to them. And now they found out it isn't like that, they start jumping up and down.
Ask my mother who is 81 about fcuking hardship, eating frozen potatoes (hint, they're disgusting), having neighbours spie on you, other neighbour disappear, have 100 holes in your house from BOTH nazis and allied troups, most of the men in the family not returning from the front, THAT is hardship, NOT because one is angry that they can't afford a holiday in fcuking Spain and blames it on immigrants.
As for the sh*theads in the AfD and Pegida, I have seen the interviews with their supporters. I would doubt that most of them could tie their shoe laces unaided.
Of course the leading members of these assorted brown parties are sharp people who have realised that there is sizable layer of human detritus who have two main attributes. They are angry and they are monumentally stupid.
These people never had a voice, so clever people found out, if they only make enough noise, shout brain dead slogans, sow discontent and tell the people tey will put everything right (it's all dem foreigners), they will have those halfwits eat out of their hands.
it's a giant sh*tparade. it's Trolls and Morons United. It's the world sinking (again) under a giant, brown wave of hatred and stupidity.
And mainstream right orineted parties are catching up and playing up to the baying mob.
It's sad. it's like a global toddler tantrum.
And it's scientifically proven. Right wing beliefs go hand in hadn with stupidity.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/study-links-low-intelligence-with-right-wing-beliefs/article543361/0 -
Ok, well reasoned and polite post here. Good Job.dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Well, if one looks at Brexit, Hungary (and some other Eastern European countries), Austria, America under Trump and, as you said, Germany and even Sweden, it does seem that there is a global problem.
Why though? Are these people so pissed off by gender equality, environmental responsibility, social awareness and care for the less well off that they have to start a violent revolution on the streets? Are they wistfully looking back at the times where people who didn't agree with the regime where rounded up in Ghettos and put in internment camps? Do they maybe miss war, hunger, poverty and having to fear for your life if you said somethng wrong?
These people are pissed off at a number of things, political correctness, excessive immigration, years of poor economic performance, high taxation in some cases, excessive pandering to liberals over issues like LGBT, abortion (although in both those particular cases I'm actually on the liberal side, staunchly), refusal to curb the welfare state, etc etc
Above all it's a general dissatisfaction at the status quo, which is liberalism.
I've responded politely and with reason to the polite reasonable part of your post. I shall address the insulting derisory mess below next
Having gotten that rant out of your system are you prepared to have a discussion like, you know, grown ups about this, or do you prefer the image of tantrum throwing toddlers dragging their knuckles? Whatever makes you feel good, man, but nothing will be addressed or changed if this disparity between left and right continues.dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »If they are, than they are nothing but a bunch of idiotic dunderheads that are bored and are looking for trouble.
What are they complaining about? The longest period of unbroken peace in Europe? Jobs and prosperity? One has to remember that we are complaining on a very high level. A lot of it is people who struggle to afford the lates fcuking iPhone, a new car AND a holiday and now they scream blue murder about immigrants. I have no time for crybabies like that. People who throw a sh*t fit because they don't get their way. because Mammy told them only THEY are special, and the WHOL world should listen to them. And now they found out it isn't like that, they start jumping up and down.
Ask my mother who is 81 about fcuking hardship, eating frozen potatoes (hint, they're disgusting), having neighbours spie on you, other neighbour disappear, have 100 holes in your house from BOTH nazis and allied troups, most of the men in the family not returning from the front, THAT is hardship, NOT because one is angry that they can't afford a holiday in fcuking Spain and blames it on immigrants.
As for the sh*theads in the AfD and Pegida, I have seen the interviews with their supporters. I would doubt that most of them could tie their shoe laces unaided.
Of course the leading members of these assorted brown parties are sharp people who have realised that there is sizable layer of human detritus who have two main attributes. They are angry and they are monumentally stupid.
These people never had a voice, so clever people found out, if they only make enough noise, shout brain dead slogans, sow discontent and tell the people tey will put everything right (it's all dem foreigners), they will have those halfwits eat out of their hands.
it's a giant sh*tparade. it's Trolls and Morons United. It's the world sinking (again) under a giant, brown wave of hatred and stupidity.
And mainstream right orineted parties are catching up and playing up to the baying mob.
It's sad. it's like a global toddler tantrum.
And it's scientifically proven. Right wing beliefs go hand in hadn with stupidity.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/study-links-low-intelligence-with-right-wing-beliefs/article543361/
As for your remark about intelligence, I find that risible. I'm about as right wing as they get, yet I am most certainly not unintelligent.
I understand your generalisation but to be honest that generalisation about right wing views is about as true as the generalisation that left wing people are all throwing tantrums because someone used the incorrect gender pronoun for their cat. Accurate in some cases but for the vast vast majority completely untrue. You have extremes at both ends of the spectrum.0 -
That’s comedy gold.
Angela Merkel. Leader of the Christian Democrat party. Leader of the centre-right Christian Democratic Union!
Is a loony liberal. Brilliant.
Her economic leanings are more to Thatcher than any previous German leader or her wider party.
A classic Liberal in economic terms.Not always Socially though.0 -
Both sides have a lot of valid points.
The key problem for the Left is the growing divide between itself and its voter base.
A class divide, priority, values, on vision of Society.
It is more stark than the divisions on the right and it will be enough to end the Left in many of its Western heartlands, already is.
Does the Left have a future as a governing or significant force in the Western World?
Not looking good.
Most of that is self inflicted but some is certainly down to societal changes. The right reinvents itself, the Left tends not to.
Address that problem or it is over.0 -
It's not about needing to reinvent itself. If anything the fragmentation comes from reinventing itself. Bernie Saunders tried to reinvent things and that ended up channeling support away from the democrats in some surprising sectors.Both sides have a lot of valid points.
The key problem for the Left is the growing divide between itself and its voter base.
A class divide, priority, values, on vision of Society.
It is more stark than the divisions on the right and it will be enough to end the Left in many of its Western heartlands, already is.
Does the Left have a future as a governing or significant force in the Western World?
Not looking good.
Most of that is self inflicted but some is certainly down to societal changes. The right reinvents itself, the Left tends not to.
Address that problem or it is over.
It boils down to the fact that rightwing people by definition tend to support other rightwing people and do so fastidiuously, where ethical or ideological concerns divide the left relatively easily. It is something that is being exploited by some more extreme rightwing entities.
Collective action is by definition what is required for social change in a democracy. The right recognise this and focus on it. The left are generally failing to do so at this time.0 -
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Corinne Handsome Joint wrote: »It's not about needing to reinvent itself. If anything the fragmentation comes from reinventing itself. Bernie Saunders tried to reinvent things and that ended up channeling support away from the democrats in some surprising sectors.
It boils down to the fact that rightwing people by definition tend to support other rightwing people and do so fastidiuously, where ethical or ideological concerns divide the left relatively easily. It is something that is being exploited by some more extreme rightwing entities.
Collective action is by definition what is required for social change in a democracy. The right recognise this and focus on it. The left are generally failing to do so at this time.
The Left, by definition, tend to be complete spoofers as evidenced by the above post, which is by definition, a fact.
What makes one person more ethical or ideological than the next? You're lack of self awareness is only equalled in your right wing counter part.0 -
Corinne Handsome Joint wrote: »Clinton had great plans and was a third way centrist. His plans were bamboozeled by republicans, and he was ultimately knocked out of office altogether. On account of lying about adultery with a consenting adult. Not ideal, but pretty insignificant compared to the mountain of crap about Trump, or Roy Moore, or Kavanaugh... they can do what they like so long as they support the core aims of the republican party, and so long as the Republicans keep the majority.
GWB then took over, started a fake war at massive human and financial cost, that directly led to the foundation of Isis within prisons in Iraq, and greatly destabilized the middle east. Now we have huge numbers of refugees pouring in as a consequence, and the same people who are most dismayed by that are the ones who stick up for the people responsible for the situation.
Yes a lot of that is true, but you left out the contribution of the love god of the more socially liberal and lefties, one President Obama, to the entire Mediterranean centered mess i.e. the migrant/refugee crisis.
He exacerbated the situation in Libya and Syria by getting stuck in and then he basically sat back and let the clusterfook unravel.
He helped create two failed states.
And also a correction, most of the ones flooding across the Med both from Turkey and North Africa, primarily Libya, are economic migrants not Syrian refugees.
The fact that there were no controls especially in Libya just allows people to travel....
The right isn’t on the rise. Far right extremists are. The middle is getting obliterated is a typhoon of hyperbole. Hyperbole like you claiming Merkel believes in unchecked illegal immigration.
Try being part of the solution.
Yes far right extremists are on the rise and it is precisely because people are turning to them because they are being deserted by the centre and the left.
Working class voters are pis**d off with their lot and the fact the parties that once represented them are now more interested in arguing about how many genders there are or how many immigrants to import to compete with them for unskilled low paying jobs and state services.dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Well, if one looks at Brexit, Hungary (and some other Eastern European countries), Austria, America under Trump and, as you said, Germany and even Sweden, it does seem that there is a global problem.
Why though? Are these people so pissed off by gender equality, environmental responsibility, social awareness and care for the less well off that they have to start a violent revolution on the streets?
You see this is the problem with your modern leftist mindset.
If someone is pro rigid immigration controls, anti long term social welfare you will immediately assume they are anti environment controls, anti equality of sexes, anti social welfare for sick/old and probably chomping at the bit to drag everyone back to a christian church.dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Are they wistfully looking back at the times where people who didn't agree with the regime where rounded up in Ghettos and put in internment camps? Do they maybe miss war, hunger, poverty and having to fear for your life if you said somethng wrong?
...
You see there you go with the leap to immediately assuming people are nazis and want to start concentration camps.
Yes there will always be the few neo nazis with a love in for the likes of the reich, but why can't you ask why it is now that these organisations and parties are getting more support.
Why are people turning to them?
Why have they suddenly had increased support over the last decade ?
Are you going to just trott out the usual stuff about how everyone is now racist?dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Ask my mother who is 81 about fcuking hardship, eating frozen potatoes (hint, they're disgusting), having neighbours spie on you, other neighbour disappear, have 100 holes in your house from BOTH nazis and allied troups, most of the men in the family not returning from the front, ...
Can you ask your mother why Germans started voting for the nazis ?
Can you ask your mother did Germans see communists (the left) as a threat and hence voted for the nazis?
AFAIK the country was in shyte and hitler offered hope.
And a lot of people didn't care about his racial stuff because you didn't need to bring a barrow load of marks to buy a loaf of bread.
Meanwhile the centre and the left offered fook all.
By the time they all copped on it was too late.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Left:
Right:
Conserving the status quo eg, no expansion for different genders, against gay marriage
Yes. Do tell us how the current Republican President also known as the First Official Pro Gay Marriage President is anti gay marriage . This should be entertaining and worthy of a chuckle or two.
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The truth is even if Europe became mostly right wing for a few years nothing will really change too much, a few years of each country saying how great they are and promoting home grown talent wont hurt any one, it is a pendulum effect and it is the turn of the right, in a few more years the pendulum will swing left again. Most normal people dont even really know about any divide and just get on with their lives.
Also I would not describe it as right extremists are on the rise as I dont think most of what is happening is extremists even though the media will focus on the crazy few to create this narrative, just working class people looking for some representation, respect and a country to be proud of. This is the real world and the star trek future that the left are pushing for will never exist if it is being forced and none of you will see it in your lifetime.0 -
Ok, well reasoned and polite post here. Good Job.
These people are pissed off at a number of things, political correctness, excessive immigration, years of poor economic performance, high taxation in some cases, excessive pandering to liberals over issues like LGBT, abortion (although in both those particular cases I'm actually on the liberal side, staunchly), refusal to curb the welfare state, etc etc
Above all it's a general dissatisfaction at the status quo, which is liberalism.
I've responded politely and with reason to the polite reasonable part of your post. I shall address the insulting derisory mess below next
Having gotten that rant out of your system are you prepared to have a discussion like, you know, grown ups about this, or do you prefer the image of tantrum throwing toddlers dragging their knuckles? Whatever makes you feel good, man, but nothing will be addressed or changed if this disparity between left and right continues.
As for your remark about intelligence, I find that risible. I'm about as right wing as they get, yet I am most certainly not unintelligent.
I understand your generalisation but to be honest that generalisation about right wing views is about as true as the generalisation that left wing people are all throwing tantrums because someone used the incorrect gender pronoun for their cat. Accurate in some cases but for the vast vast majority completely untrue. You have extremes at both ends of the spectrum.
Thanks, I appreciate your reply.
To address the bolded part. Immigration I understand, human beings are tribal and we don't like new people arriving into our village and stealing our jobs and womenfolk. We fear and hate anything and anyone who looks different, speaks different and has different customs. It’s simply instinct that we haven’t evolved out of yet.
Immigration is a challenge and it’s true that there has been rather a lot of it, but it is being used as a pawn by right wing parties to garner support, more on that below.
On political correctness, yes, very upsetting I can't call other races sp**s, n*****s, k***s, w***s or p****s and give a woman that grabs my fancy a good slap on the rear anymore. Oh the humanity! Next they'll be wanting acceptance of queers!
Poor economic performance. Well, if you recall that followed the BIGGEST financial crash since 1929. 2008 was brought to you courtesy of one George "Dubya" Bush. Now I think he might have been a Republican.
And his policies of loosening restrictions on Banks might have brought this crash about.
Incidentally, the Republicans also presided over the economic crash of 1929.
And Trump has just rolled back restrictions that should prevent such massive crashes, so I am willing to bet my hat that the next one will be on him.
It also remains to be seen if Mr Trump will manage 8 years of constant, sustainable growth.
So it is pretty well established that Republicans overheat the economy, which leads to massive crashes, which the Dems have to clean up and get blamed for.
On LGBT, if someone has a problem with that, they're the problem. They can grow up or fcuk off. What should the LGBT community do? Crawl back into the shadows?
On liberalism in general. If people are pissed off with an enlightened mindset, equal rights, fairness, equality and protecting the planet, I don't know what to say, other than "Fcuk Off".
On the knuckledragger thing. People who show up at AfD and Pegida rallies are just that. I will not move one iota from that position.
Your thinking on left wingers is also fixated on the very looney end of the spectrum.
Having said that, I would rather be surrounded by people who hold a demonstration about defining 17 genders for cats than with a bunch of thick-browed skinheads in bomber jackets and army boots that are showing off their Hitler salute and are singing the Horst Wessel Song. Those guys can kindly fcuk off and die. In fact I would rather Germany became a Muslim state than a Nazi state.
OK, these guys are the very, very edge of militant right-wingers, but to me the right in general holds very little attraction. And if you think my example is very outlandish, in Dresden and Zwickau it isn’t.
It's all about uniformity. White, Christian values, family, economy and, above all, the defense of these values against anyone who dares to be different.Can you ask your mother why Germans started voting for the nazis ?
Can you ask your mother did Germans see communists (the left) as a threat and hence voted for the nazis?
AFAIK the country was in shyte and hitler offered hope.
And a lot of people didn't care about his racial stuff because you didn't need to bring a barrow load of marks to buy a loaf of bread.
Meanwhile the centre and the left offered fook all.
By the time they all copped on it was too late.
To address that a little. It is now the same as it was 100 years ago. Except back then people could claim genuine hardship and not “boohoo, I can’t afford the latest iPhone, fcuking immigrants!”
AfD and Pegida use the same tactics as back then. “The world is in sh*t (no it isn’t) and if you vote for us, we will sort it out in 5 minutes! Because we are much more cleverer than ANYONE else in government!” And no matter what the question is, their answer is always the same. All dem immigants fault.
Back then the Nazis promised the exact same. Replace the word Muslim with Jew and you’re smack bang back a hundred years ago. Anti-Semitism didn’t start in the 30’s
How does this work? Well, there does seem to be a cruddy subsoil of disenfranchised oiks who have 2 major attributes. They are very angry and they are very stupid. Promise them nectar and ambrosia and you will get into power.
Here is the beauty of how that works: The people who promise them this paradise (I we can just get rid of all those damn brown people) do not give one solitary sh*t about them or their promises
Do you know how Hitler did it? He put the economy on a course of guaranteed financial ruin! The state started spending money it didn’t even remotely have to simulate a “miraculous” economic recovery. A lot of people are saying “why did Hitler go to war so early when the army wasn’t ready?” He had to! He basically plundered all the countries he invaded. The Jews were turned into subhumans and stripped of their rights, and much more importantly, their wealth and the invaded countries were plundered.
I abhor the fact that all this info is not just staring us in the face, but it’s also screaming into our face and slapping us and we STILL don’t listen!
If that isn’t stupid, I don’t know what is.
And why are intelligent, moderate people voting for those rat-catchers?
What the fcuk are they disenfranchised about? They keep shouting about how everything is sh*t and they are fed up, but apart from “bloody foreigners” they don’t offer anything positive or constructive.
If someone is unhappy with how things are, there at your fingertips is the greatest fcuking democracy the world has ever seen! (well, definitely not the American one) Anyone can lobby, go public and inform without fear of reprisal, start campaigns, demonstrate and even form their own political parties that will stand for what they believe in.
Why do people, if they’re not happy with the way things are, don’t do something positive and constructive?
Why do we not see new political parties that offer sensible, intelligent policies?
One could almost think that voters are massive idiots that will slap their fins together for whoever shouts the loudest and throws the most fisheads their way.
100 years of experience would support that point.
As for my mother’s generation, they are all uniformly scared sh*tless of the new right. They have seen and heard it all before, they would warn us if we just bothered our holes listening to them. They can see where this is all heading. They’re attitude is “well, thankfully I’ll be dead when this sh*t hits the fan”
Remember, Hitler and his merry gang of thugs where a looney fringe group at first, people shouted at them and threw stones at them on the street. Now watch some of those skinhead numbskulls march and shout slogans and throw salutes, it is an exact carbon copy.
It just seems that sometimes people get fed up, get off their arse and start trouble, because we as a primitive, half-evolved ape creature are inherently aggressive and we cannot stand peace and quiet for very long. Don’t tell me there is any other reason for Trump.
Because if this wasn’t the case, we would all work together to find intelligent solutions instead of blaming immigrants, the LGBT community or people who may want to save the planet. And phrases like “sticking it to the libtards” would not exist.0 -
Corinne Handsome Joint wrote: »Clinton had great plans and was a third way centrist. His plans were bamboozeled by republicans, and he was ultimately knocked out of office altogether.
No. Bill was impeached [but he wasn't removed from office. He finished his 2 terms] because he lied under oath about his affair with Monica Lewinsky [even though people seem to think this is what got him impeached. No. It was the lying under oath that got him impeached]0 -
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Thanks, I appreciate your reply.
To address the bolded part. Immigration I understand, human beings are tribal and we don't like new people arriving into our village and stealing our jobs and womenfolk. We fear and hate anything and anyone who looks different, speaks different and has different customs. It’s simply instinct that we haven’t evolved out of yet.
Or it could be... You know....because we have a homeless crisis and a ****e healthcare system. We shouldn't be even considering increasing immigration until we get them sorted.0 -
I said it was because he lied about it. In the next sentence. Nice selective quoting.No. Bill was impeached [but he wasn't removed from office. He finished his 2 terms] because he lied under oath about his affair with Monica Lewinsky [even though people seem to think this is what got him impeached. No. It was the lying under oath that got him impeached]0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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You do realise that the incoming groups have exactly the same instincts as the natives? Now rather than hope in a warm fuzzy feel good way that "ah sure won't Ireland be different", it makes far more sense to look at other European nations that have run this multiculturalism social experiment. An experiment that time and time again throughout human history has shown when it reaches a certain demographic point it almost never works and brings more negatives than positives. That's the reality of it. A reality that we see in Europe today.dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Immigration I understand, human beings are tribal and we don't like new people arriving into our village and stealing our jobs and womenfolk. We fear and hate anything and anyone who looks different, speaks different and has different customs. It’s simply instinct that we haven’t evolved out of yet.
Oh and before the BS that naturally follows as an "argument" in favour of multiculturalism, this is feck all to do with "race". Look to the north of this island and you will see two cultures that have clashed for centuries and they're the exact same "race", even on the genetic level good luck in telling a Protestant and a Catholic apart. The 19th century influx of White Europeans didn't do Africa any favours and the results of that clusterfcuk are still in play today. Watch as the Chinese walk a similar path on that continent. "Race" just makes it easier to identify the other, on both sides.
Bless... The naivete. It illustrates how little you understand either type of states. Fascist states by their very nature are on the clock. They are simply not sustainable. The longest lived state closest to fascism(and it was a bit different in a few respects) was Franco's Spain that from the 60's onward was being diluted year upon year until by the time of that gobshite's demise in 75 it was pretty much just another European nation. Muslim states have existed for many centuries and outside of an all too brief flowering of progress and high civilisation have been looking ever more back to the dark ages. Even within the 20th century we can observe that. Muslim nations becoming more free, more modern, more *gasp* western for a time and it all goes grand until the underlying self protecting and self healing foundation comes out and you're back to mad mullah's, state oppression, constriction on women, gays and minorities and if they're oil free, economic crapholes. A Nazi Germany would be truly horrendous, but it would at least be temporary.In fact I would rather Germany became a Muslim state than a Nazi state.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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You do realise that the incoming groups have exactly the same instincts as the natives? Now rather than hope in a warm fuzzy feel good way that "ah sure won't Ireland be different", it makes far more sense to look at other European nations that have run this multiculturalism social experiment. An experiment that time and time again throughout human history has shown when it reaches a certain demographic point it almost never works and brings more negatives than positives. That's the reality of it. A reality that we see in Europe today.
Oh and before the BS that naturally follows as an "argument" in favour of multiculturalism, this is feck all to do with "race". Look to the north of this island and you will see two cultures that have clashed for centuries and they're the exact same "race", even on the genetic level good luck in telling a Protestant and a Catholic apart. The 19th century influx of White Europeans didn't do Africa any favours and the results of that clusterfcuk are still in play today. Watch as the Chinese walk a similar path on that continent. "Race" just makes it easier to identify the other, on both sides.
Bless... The naivete. It illustrates how little you understand either type of states. Fascist states by their very nature are on the clock. They are simply not sustainable. The longest lived state closest to fascism(and it was a bit different in a few respects) was Franco's Spain that from the 60's onward was being diluted year upon year until by the time of that gobshite's demise in 75 it was pretty much just another European nation. Muslim states have existed for many centuries and outside of an all too brief flowering of progress and high civilisation have been looking ever more back to the dark ages. Even within the 20th century we can observe that. Muslim nations becoming more free, more modern, more *gasp* western for a time and it all goes grand until the underlying self protecting and self healing foundation comes out and you're back to mad mullah's, state oppression, constriction on women, gays and minorities and if they're oil free, economic crapholes. A Nazi Germany would be truly horrendous, but it would at least be temporary.
Jaysus that’s a mad way of thinking. It’s going to take me a while to parse that one.
Here’s a start. There were plenty of “modern” relaxed Muslim countries in the Middle East before they were used as proxies in the Cold War. Iran in particular was well on the right track before the yanks jammed the Shah back in.
Before this becomes “blame the yanks”, the Soviet Union royally messed up a fairly secular Afghanistan.
Lebanon was modern and liberal before its civil war and is returning that way.
Outside the Middle East you have Malaysia, a lovely spot. Christian, Taoist and Hindu minorities are very well integrated with the Muslim majority. My favourite country to visit, even during Ramadan.
Turkey, is teetering on the edge but it’s not run by “mad mullahs”.
Jordan has a king, again, not too bad.
Egypt is a basket case. But it hasn’t fallen over yet.
Morocco is grand.
Tunisia ditto, after a rough few years. No “mad mullahs”, but I could be wrong.
Algeria is grand. I think.
Libya. A mess. I’ll give you that one.
It’s only really the Gulf States that are horror shows.
So loads of countries, same religion. Varying outcomes. Not that I have any time for religions or religious Tom Foolery. Uganda and the Netherlands are both Christian countries, do you fear Christianity?
Never, ever had a fascist system worked for its people.they/them/theirs
And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1nJ5JwLdU4
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