The left this, the right that..

Left:
Equality among sexes
Recognising different genders exist
Social healthcare
Separating religion from government
Treating people equally
Environmental concerns

Right:
Business, markets, capitalism are most important
Money, if you don't have it, tough.
Conserving the status quo eg, no expansion for different genders, against gay marriage
Insularism (putting borders up, "looking after our own first")
Private healthcare, if you can afford it, you can have healthcare, its business.
No environmental concerns (it's all baloney - there's money to be made, now)
Keeping religion central to education, health, the system.

Boards has become frighteningly right wing these days. I dunno when that happened, but most of the time I can't be bothered to reply on a thread as I'll be drowned out.

I know for a fact that boards is not reflective of society as a whole (thank God!) but its a good time as any, to say, why are you freaked out by the left?

From my perspective, the left (while not perfect by any means) want society to become more inclusive, and try and focus on the individual being able to be an individual, while the right tends to generally care about money and possessions first, not wanting other people to recognise their own individuality, whether that be not recognising gender spectrum, or gay marriage for instance. They want to keep women down (the lambasting the #metoo movement is especially bizarre, as we all know women who've been harassed at one time or another)

So, what's the attraction to the right? What do you get out of it? What am I missing?

Danjamin1

Depends in what context you’re asking the question. Do you mean strictly politically, and if so are you talking Irish politics, English politics, American politics? Or are you asking what people’s social principles are? I think the majority of Irish people would be middle of the road. There’s a middle ground between the polar positions you’ve outlined where most people with no vested interests will sit.

Gimme A Pound

But there are people who question hardline feminism yet do not want to keep women down.

There are feminists who hate trans people.

There are people with right-wing views who are atheists.

You are just presenting two polarised boxes whereas the reality is of a huge amount of cross fertilisation.

In general I am more to the right economically (but that doesn't mean I disagree with state supports - I completely agree with them) and more to the left socially - but I don't accept there are more than two genders, and while I loathe misogyny and adore feminists of old, I detest today's feminism.

I'm not anti immigration but it has to be limited.

I think there is too much abdication of personal responsibility and people need to look mostly to themselves for help (mostly; nothing wrong with asking for a helping hand).

Danjamin1

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Depends in what context you’re asking the question. Do you mean strictly politically, and if so are you talking Irish politics, English politics, American politics? Or are you asking what people’s social principles are? I think the majority of Irish people would be middle of the road. There’s a middle ground between the polar positions you’ve outlined where most people with no vested interests will sit.

I think its an "internet left wing/right wing" as opposed traditional national politics.

CinemaGuy45

Right Wing we have money and we don't want to share.

The left we have nothing and we want to share.

Jaxson Fresh Silver

Jaxson Fresh Silver wrote: »

But there are people who question hardline feminism yet do not want to keep women down.

There are feminists who hate trans people.

There are people with right-wing views who are atheists.

You are just presenting two polarised boxes whereas the reality is of a huge amount of cross fertilisation.

In general I am more to the right economically (but that doesn't mean I disagree with state supports - I completely agree with them) and more to the left socially - but I don't accept there are more than two genders, and while I loathe misogyny and adore feminists of old, I detest today's feminism.

See, I'm not a fan of feminism of old, but I am a fan of modern feminism.

There's many different branches of feminism today and to me, to say you liked feminism of old, but detest today's feminism sounds like, I like the Beatles, but I can't detest literally all music brought out today.

Why do you not accept there are more than two genders btw? In what quantifiable, meaningful manner would accepting that, affect your life in anyway?

CinemaGuy45

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Right Wing we have money and we don't want to share.

The left we have nothing and we want to share.

How do you explain wealthy lefties and poor right wingers so?

I thought the OP was going to be about how ridiculous it is in this country to categorize anyone as right or left as in reality most people are a mix of both.

But it's just another one of those posts that places anyone having an opinion which differs to something Paul Murphy would endorse as being a rabid right winger.

Life is a bit more nuanced than that mate.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought the OP was going to be about how ridiculous it is in this country to categorize anyone as right or left as in reality most people are a mix of both.

But it's just another one of those posts that places anyone having an opinion which differs to something Paul Murphy would endorse as being a rabid right winger.

Life is a bit more nuanced than that mate.

That's ridiculous. Its an internet wide thing, not just little old Ireland.

But well done on helping me see what people are attracted to on the right. Bravo with your snidey post.

Vincent Vega

I honestly have my doubts about many who spout off right wing ideas, and parrot american political catchphrases and whether or not they truly believe in them.

I generally feel like a lot of it is rooted in a sort of cynical 4chanesque trolling of others that they view as oversensitive and overcaring, and rarely anything to do with actual beliefs.

There is a pleasure derived from seeing other people offended and riled up and as much as some of it annoys me, I try to keep it in mind and not take the bait.

meeeeh

But it's not about society becoming more inclusive, it's two sides hurling insults at each other without even wanting to hear other sides argument. When insults like feminazi are thrown around, when anyone in anyway critical of liberal all accepting viewpoint tries to be silenced you know the world is going to hell. And those on left are just as responsible as those on the right.

Gimme A Pound

Deleted User wrote: »

That's ridiculous. Its an internet wide thing, not just little old Ireland.

But well done on helping me see what people are attracted to on the right. Bravo with your snidey post.

You're being snide too - getting snarky with me for disliking feminism of today. I find it way too polarising and man-hating and depicting of women as victims.

I don't agree that there are any more genders than male and female - this is my opinion.

"In what quantifiable, meaningful manner would accepting that, affect your life in anyway?" It would mean pretending to agree with something I disagree with. Why does it bother you that I have different opinions?

Gimme A Pound

Vincent Vega wrote: »

I honestly have my doubts about many who spout off right wing ideas, and parrot american political catchphrases and whether or not they truly believe in them.

I generally feel like a lot of it is rooted in a sort of cynical 4chanesque trolling of others that they view as oversensitive and overcaring, and rarely anything to do with actual beliefs.

There is a pleasure derived from seeing other people offended and riled up and as much as some of it annoys me, I try to keep it in mind and not take the bait.

I agree there, but only in relation to the very nasty right-wing stuff. E.g. having a problem with feminism today is not just the preserve of woman-haters.

OldMrBrennan83

Left - snowflake.
Right - not.

Yer Da sells Avon

Politics aside, I think there are some people on here - far more than most other places on the internet - who constantly feel compelled to express the harshest and most uncharitable opinion possible, whatever the topic. It's almost as if they see being 'nice' as being indicative of weakness, of being a 'cuck' or a 'soy boy' (just two terms I've seen being used, without a hint of self-awareness, on this very website). I've no idea whether the cure is lots of hugs or a good kick in the bollocks.

Yawn.

Seriously. This generic ‘left vs right’ stuff is tiresome.

kneemos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought the OP was going to be about how ridiculous it is in this country to categorize anyone as right or left as in reality most people are a mix of both.

But it's just another one of those posts that places anyone having an opinion which differs to something Paul Murphy would endorse as being a rabid right winger.

Life is a bit more nuanced than that mate.

Sounds like he's talking about the American
polarised version of left/right.

CinemaGuy45

Deleted User wrote: »

How do you explain wealthy lefties and poor right wingers so?

I don't my post was a joke.
This subject is so dull but I do like to inject a bit of humour.

Gimme A Pound

Patww79 wrote: »

Left - snowflake.
Right - not.

What about those who occupy the middle ground? Melted snow maybe?

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Left:
Equality among sexes
Recognising different genders exist
Social healthcare
Separating religion from government
Treating people equally
Environmental concerns.

No mention of class, wealth, inheritance, workers rights or unions, nationalistion of the main mean of production, socialism anti imperialismor anything that’s real leftism. The rest of the list, healthcare excepted, is at best liberal not left.

Everybody recognises different genders exist, many dispute there’s more than two.

the_pen_turner

im very confused by the left or right polarisation.
all of the online surveys that tell you if your left or right put me firmly center left but i have very strong left and right opinions.

to me boards and mainstream internet is left wing. very liberal. you can be openly pro womans rights, gay rights trans rights etc but cannot be against those things.

CinemaGuy45

Jaxson Fresh Silver wrote: »

What about those who occupy the middle ground? Melted snow maybe?

Those in the middle just can't make up their minds they are indecisive pussies.:D

Plus on the extream right and left the uniforms are totally cool.:p

Gimme A Pound

the_pen_turner wrote: »

to me boards and mainstream internet is left wing. very liberal. you can be openly pro womans rights, gay rights trans rights etc but cannot be against those things.

Well it's not reasonable to be opposed to the rights of any of the above groups so a backlash is to be expected.
I mean, you've described the views of a sharia society.

OldMrBrennan83

Jaxson Fresh Silver wrote: »

What about those who occupy the middle ground? Melted snow maybe?

Ice cream.

Though there is no middle.

Gimme A Pound

Patww79 wrote: »

Ice cream.

Though there is no middle.

Well there is really for people who hold views from each camp.

meeeeh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Left:
Equality among sexes
Recognising different genders exist
Social healthcare
Separating religion from government
Treating people equally
Environmental concerns

Btw the only problem with this list is that it doesn't state who pays for it.

Jaxson Fresh Silver

Jaxson Fresh Silver wrote: »

You're being snide too - getting snarky with me for disliking feminism of today. I find it way too polarising and man-hating and depicting of women as victims.

I don't agree that there are any more genders than male and female - this is my opinion.

"In what quantifiable, meaningful manner would accepting that, affect your life in anyway?" It would mean pretending to agree with something I disagree with. Why does it bother you that I have different opinions?

Well, I find it odd that you liked the feminism of old, but not today. I don't get why. See, the feminism I support, sees women as equal to men, neither being better. I see feminists arguing for parental leave for dads, for better mental health services for both, for job options to be open to both sexes. Why is a costume person in theatre or film 99% of the time female? That's not right. Like I said, feminism comes in many flavours. I don't like feminists that don't recognise trans women, for example.

As for the two genders thing, yeah, cool, you can believe what you want. Science is agreeing that there's are multi genders.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/

It doesn't bother me that you have different opinions, I don't know where you got that from in my post to you.

People still think the earth is flat after all, and the world still turns.

Gimme A Pound

And there is equality between the sexes here, whereas there isn't in other parts of the world - but often those on the left don't criticise those other societies.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

See, I'm not a fan of feminism of old, but I am a fan of modern feminism.

There's many different branches of feminism today and to me, to say you liked feminism of old, but detest today's feminism sounds like, I like the Beatles, but I can't detest literally all music brought out today.

Why do you not accept there are more than two genders btw? In what quantifiable, meaningful manner would accepting that, affect your life in anyway?

Why should anybody accept something they believe to be nonsense. It wouldn’t affect me to accept that 2+2=5 but I know it’s not so I don’t.

It would be a deeply sinister society that expected people to believe that 2+2=5 or face social or professional ostracisation but here we are.

It’s libertarian or liberal to allow people to declare gender, it’s totalitarian to expect everybody to accept it.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

Yawn.

Seriously. This generic ‘left vs right’ stuff is tiresome.

I just wish someone would show me the attraction to the right...

the_pen_turner

Deleted User wrote: »

I just wish someone would show me the attraction to the right...

i wish someone would show be the attraction to extreme left.
we are moving that way alarmingly fast and ruining the country

CinemaGuy45

Deleted User wrote: »

I just wish someone would show me the attraction to the right...

I bet you don't really.;)

Jaxson Fresh Silver

Jaxson Fresh Silver wrote: »

And there is equality between the sexes here, whereas there isn't in other parts of the world - but often those on the left don't criticise those other societies.

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

CinemaGuy45

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I bet you don't really.;)

Well, at least help me understand it, because what I perceive as a mainly self serving philosophy genuinely baffles me.

the_pen_turner

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i wish someone would show be the attraction to extreme left.
we are moving that way alarmingly fast and ruining the country

In what way is the country being ruined?

Danjamin1

Deleted User wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

I don’t think perfect numerical or proportional balance is equality, some careers are going to be more attractive to men, some to women. Parity & equal terms is closer to equality.

the_pen_turner

Deleted User wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

i dont think you understand equality. its not have the same no of people doing each job. its about having equal opertunity to the job if you want.
as it stands woman can do almost any job they want and men cannot

CinemaGuy45

Deleted User wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

Female/male bricklayers
Female/male rubbish collectors
Female/male order pickers
Female/male boncers

meeeeh

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i wish someone would show be the attraction to extreme left.
we are moving that way alarmingly fast and ruining the country

No we are not, that's complete nonsense. Ireland is still very business friendly country but it needs to be because someone has to pay for public sector unions.

And if you are talking about abortion etc that's just catching up.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

In free societies people choose to do what they want and have different interests.

None of this is leftism anyway. It’s liberal feminism.

I’m old enough to remember when there were working class feminists, the brilliant Nell McCafferty who was a strong socialist and republican as well. Now it’s an upper middle class philosophy.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

I just wish someone would show me the attraction to the right...

If you spend your entire adult existence on one side of a left/right political divide you are a moron.

A true progressive would never be defined that easily.

Philosophy Zombie

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Politics aside, I think there are some people on here - far more than most other places on the internet - who constantly feel compelled to express the harshest and most uncharitable opinion possible, whatever the topic. It's almost as if they see being 'nice' as being indicative of weakness, of being a 'cuck' or a 'soy boy' (just two terms I've seen being used, without a hint of self-awareness, on this very website). I've no idea whether the cure is lots of hugs or a good kick in the bollocks.

Boards/Afterhours is a walk in the park compared to loads of other places I find. Kiwi Farms forums.net has to be seen to be believed with warning signs on the sign-up page about users doxing each other.

CinemaGuy45

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I don’t think perfect numerical or proportional balance is equality, some careers are going to be more attractive to men, some to women. Parity & equal terms is closer to equality.

Nah those on the left are looking for equality of outcome or as it is more commonly known as affirmative action.

Yer Da sells Avon

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i wish someone would show be the attraction to extreme left.
we are moving that way alarmingly fast and ruining the country

A lot of what you might describe as 'the extreme left' is either bog-standard liberalism or social democracy.

the_pen_turner

Deleted User wrote: »

In what way is the country being ruined?

open your eyes. there are huge problems growing everywhere.

we have younger generations that cannot work cook, look after themselves
modern femanism poluting the minds with their anti male nonscense.
generations growing up showing no respect for anyone or anything including the law
scumbags breading like rabbits
honest hardworking people cannot afford to live and would be better off scounging from the state

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

Funnily enough you get plenty of women in construction industries in the workers republics like China.

When you give women a choice of where to work, it seems they choose not to work in construction.

Should we remove the choice?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

Do you think that would be equality? Equality is having the choice and being free from barriers.

We're not there yet in most of those things, arguably, but equality isn't having equal numbers in everything.

All things being equal, you'll never have equal numbers block layers or child carers. And that's cool, as long as the freedom is there.

meeeeh

the_pen_turner wrote: »

open your eyes. there are huge problems growing everywhere.

we have younger generations that cannot work cook, look after themselves
modern femanism poluting the minds with their anti male nonscense.
generations growing up showing no respect for anyone or anything including the law
scumbags breading like rabbits
honest hardworking people cannot afford to live and would be better off scounging from the state

You and OP can fight this one out. It will be a perfect example of what is wrong about modern politics.

CinemaGuy45

the_pen_turner wrote: »

open your eyes. there are huge problems growing everywhere.

we have younger generations that cannot work cook, look after themselves
modern feminism polluting the minds with their anti-male nonsense.
generations growing up showing no respect for anyone or anything including the law
scumbags breading like rabbits
honest hardworking people cannot afford to live and would be better off scrounging from the state

Don't be so negative.

Danjamin1

My experience of all this is that anyone who defines themselves as left- or right-wing is a c**t. Life isn’t that black & white, you won’t get very far without compromise.

the_pen_turner

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Don't be so negative.

its not negative. its just the sad reality we have allowed to happen