The left this, the right that..

Wanderer78

CruelCoin wrote: »

No other system has performed better for society. None, zip, zilch.
The alternative is queueing 4 hours for bogroll in Venezuela.

so they only options are neoliberalism or socialism?

Roger Hassenforder

CruelCoin wrote: »

And also, a non stoopid site to give a broad indication of where you lie:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/
Been interesting to see my shift from left to right over the years.

I'd love to know what % of people start off ideologically "lefty" and gradually drift over right of centre as they get older. I'm one too.
Not sure when it started, maybe when i saw my first paycheck!

Try_harder

When did cheque become check in this country?

Wanderer78

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I'd love to know what % of people start off ideologically "lefty" and gradually drift over right of centre as they get older. I'm one too.
Not sure when it started, maybe when i saw my first paycheck!

ive been told im becoming more radically left, so maybe its not true for some:D

gozunda

Brian? wrote: »

It’s particularly bad in Ireland. Rampant populism.

yeah I've seen a fair bit of that alright ...

ELM327

CruelCoin wrote: »

Just in case anyone is wondering where they lie on the spectrum





And also, a non stoopid site to give a broad indication of where you lie:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/
Been interesting to see my shift from left to right over the years.

That is a great site.


Here's my results.
I really thought my liberal views on abortion would drag me to libertarian but apparently not.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpoliticalcompass?ec=7.0&soc=5.95

ELM327

Try_harder wrote: »

When did cheque become check in this country?

I don't know, it's hard to cheque when it happened?

gozunda

Either I'm near enough to politically dead centre or I've no idea what I think ....

Wanderer78

gozunda wrote: »

Either I'm near enough to politically dead centre or I've no idea what I think ....

nothing wrong with the centre

CruelCoin

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I'd love to know what % of people start off ideologically "lefty" and gradually drift over right of centre as they get older. I'm one too.
Not sure when it started, maybe when i saw my first paycheck!

For me it was when i saw my first paycheck and it was like "huh, okay, not bad"
Then as i got paid more i was thinking "sorry, 42 fooking percent? For what? I've seen no improvement in what the state provides me, regardless of what i input"

Me over time. 15 odd year timespan. I reckon is broadly similar for most people, though some may swing further north than i have.

CruelCoin

ELM327 wrote: »

That is a great site.
Here's my results.
I really thought my liberal views on abortion would drag me to libertarian but apparently not.

If it's just one liberal views among a sea of conservative ones, the weighting would still be somewhat conservative

ELM327

CruelCoin wrote: »

If it's just one liberal views among a sea of conservative ones, the weighting would still be somewhat conservative

I'm not disputing the site result, I think it actually paints a good picture of my leanings but for the likes of Repeal/SSM etc referenda I would have voted yes, so perhaps I'm surprised to not be more in the socially liberal.

CruelCoin

I reckon some of you lads would appreciate a webgame called "Nation States" https://www.nationstates.net/

Every day you're given some questions with multiple answers.
The questions and answers are always satirical and tongue in cheek humour, but they have impacts on your nation. Swinging it around the below spectrum.
It's really interesting to see how your answers to questions change your nation over time.



My nation, hit me up!
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=murrdurr

OMM 0000

Deleted User wrote: »

Left:
Equality among sexes
Recognising different genders exist
Social healthcare
Separating religion from government
Treating people equally
Environmental concerns

Right:
Business, markets, capitalism are most important
Money, if you don't have it, tough.
Conserving the status quo eg, no expansion for different genders, against gay marriage
Insularism (putting borders up, "looking after our own first")
Private healthcare, if you can afford it, you can have healthcare, its business.
No environmental concerns (it's all baloney - there's money to be made, now)
Keeping religion central to education, health, the system.

What you've written isn't accurate. You make it sound like the left don't have an agenda, and you make it sound like the right are heartless.

I'm going to expand your points:

Left:
Equality among sexes, unless you're male.
Recognising different genders exist, including dozens of made up ones.
Social healthcare, paid for by the rich.
Separating religion from government.
Treating people equally, unless you're a white male.
Environmental concerns

Right:
Business, markets, capitalism are most very important.
Money, if you don't have it, tough. you need to ask yourself if you're to blame. (I agree the right can be too dismissive of things like depression holding people back).
Conserving the status quo eg, no expansion for different genders, against gay marriage e.g. there are two genders, except for a tiny percentage of people with hormonal or physical disorders, gay marriage is acceptable.
Insularism (putting borders up, "looking after our own first") We can't have open borders because that would be economic suicide.
Private healthcare, if you can afford it, you can have healthcare, its business. (I agree they are also a bit heartless on this one).
No environmental concerns (it's all baloney - there's money to be made, now) Suspicious of causes of global warming, but generally support reducing carbon emissions.
Keeping religion central to education, health, the system. Religion is a personal choice and should be protected.

I don't think you have a real understanding of this issue. I'm a centrist but I can see the left are just as aggressive and power hungry as the right, but they pretend they are so caring. At least the right are a bit more honest about their motives.

CruelCoin

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't think you have a real understanding of this issue. I'm a centrist but I can see the left are just as aggressive and power hungry as the right, but they pretend they are so caring. At least the right are a bit more honest about their motives.

Both of you left off crime and punishment

Left - We all make mistakes. We should focus on rehabilitation and outreach groups. Prevent crime by changing society. Lets also reduce prison terms, because lets face it, prison breeds better criminals.

Right - Everyone has the choice to go to school or throw a brick through a car window. There should be no sympathy for those who prey on the weak in society. Prison should be a punishment for bad deeds and not the ridiculous quasi-hotel it's turning into.
Longer terms by default, and stiffer terms for repeat offenders.

ELM327

CruelCoin wrote: »

I reckon some of you lads would appreciate a webgame called "Nation States" https://www.nationstates.net/

Every day you're given some questions with multiple answers.
The questions and answers are always satirical and tongue in cheek humour, but they have impacts on your nation. Swinging it around the below spectrum.
It's really interesting to see how your answers to questions change your nation over time.



My nation, hit me up!
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=murrdurr

Thanks for that, now I am hooked

• 1 minute ago: North Haverbrook2 relocated from The West Pacific to The Black Hawks.
• 2 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, collisions between bicycles and carnival floats are on the rise.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, the country's famous rainforests are being bulldozed by the mining industry.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, military spending is on the increase.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, the alarmingly racist TV show 'Bigtopians Say the Darndest Things' is a hit.

CruelCoin

Wanderer78 wrote: »

why? communism and socialism, not exactly awe inspiring are they?

I just get a lefty vibe off you, that's all.

Not sure what alternatives are there for party creation if the current spread and also socialists and commies don't work for you as being suitably left.

CruelCoin

ELM327 wrote: »

Thanks for that, now I am hooked

• 1 minute ago: North Haverbrook2 relocated from The West Pacific to The Black Hawks.
• 2 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, collisions between bicycles and carnival floats are on the rise.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, the country's famous rainforests are being bulldozed by the mining industry.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, military spending is on the increase.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, the alarmingly racist TV show 'Bigtopians Say the Darndest Things' is a hit.

There is a "Trends" page, where you see the 3 metrics on a chart.
These will swing wildly for the first few days/weeks while the system figures you out.

_Puma_

In many ways, this labeling "Left" and "Right" has become far more prevalent here on boards, but when it comes down to it, most people you meet day to day would not be spouting the nonsense you read on these forums. Whether this is down to people being keyboard warriors or something more insidious is hard to tell.

However a trait that seems to be becoming more prevalent in Irish society lately is, plain and simple, Greed. This coupled with attitudes like "I'm alright Jack, and that's all that matters"

Now this may be down to many reasons but looking at societal changes,government policies and the advent of social media to give the more fringe elements a platform for the masses, It is not hard to see where these changes in our attitudes are coming from.

I for one think Ireland of today is lot less empathetic place than even during the Celtic tiger years. We are witnessing the collapse of the social pillars that our state was founded on and in 10 years time a lot of the supports that being a civilian of this state once provided will be gone.

Wanderer78

CruelCoin wrote:

I just get a lefty vibe off you, that's all.

I am a proud left, just with little or no political representation, story of my life though, some very interesting alternative ideas floating around the left though, largely outside of the political domain though

ELM327

CruelCoin wrote: »

There is a "Trends" page, where you see the 3 metrics on a chart.
These will swing wildly for the first few days/weeks while the system figures you out.

How do i find that?
I can see that this is going to replace township as my major daily distraction coping mechanism.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

Deleted User wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

You are confusing "sameness" with equality. What you want is sameness across all things which is far removed from equality.


Trying to force sameness upon a society is going to result in economic disaster as anyone who works hard, has the merit, qualifications, has put in the effort gets passed over because there is not a 50/50 split down the middle.


Let people do the jobs they want to do.

rossie1977

_Puma_ wrote: »

In many ways, this labeling "Left" and "Right" has become far more prevalent here on boards, but when it comes down to it, most people you meet day to day would not be spouting the nonsense you read on these forums. Whether this is down to people being keyboard warriors or something more insidious is hard to tell.

Its the same wording and arguments I saw 10-12 years on US political forums I see here today on afterhours. Even the political compass thing popped up which I hadn't seen since George Bush Jrs tenure.

CruelCoin

ELM327 wrote: »

How do i find that?
I can see that this is going to replace township as my major daily distraction coping mechanism.

Will have to check that one out "Township"

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=murrdurr/detail=trend
Append the detail=trend to the end of your nation homepage.
Or, when on your homepage, look for the little graph icon. It's on the top row, second from the right.

This is yours - https://www.nationstates.net/nation=north_haverbrook2/detail=trend. Blank for now, but that will go mad with tomorrows questions.

CruelCoin

Deleted User wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

The Norwegians and other scandinavian states have spent massive amounts of effort to level out the gender divide.

There is now a system in place there, where you can be whatever you want to be, gender not an issue.

Turns out, there is still the very same huge divide between professions.

Seem people just like doing what they want to do.

s7ryf3925pivug

I'm centre left. I pay lots of tax and get no benefits not available to everyone. I know a lot of people with as much or more than me who are as leftwing or more than me. I don't know many rightwing people. The most rightwing person I know is not especially rich or anything. Most of his family would identify as working class... The notion that wealth=right wing and vice versa is not totally inaccurate, but is definitely simplistic.

My view is that in this country the top and bottom rungs of society are pandered to and everyone in the middle gets squeezed. Also we are not progressive at all when it comes to anything the Catholic Church touches.

I don't think it's as simple as saying we need to move to the left or to the right. We need to install fairness in our social systems, and aggressively address the corruption in them. Improve things for the people who get up in the morning, not pander to the idle, be they idle rich or idle poor.

CruelCoin

ELM327 wrote: »

Thanks for that, now I am hooked

• 1 minute ago: North Haverbrook2 relocated from The West Pacific to The Black Hawks.
• 2 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, collisions between bicycles and carnival floats are on the rise.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, the country's famous rainforests are being bulldozed by the mining industry.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, military spending is on the increase.
• 3 minutes ago: Following new legislation in North Haverbrook2, the alarmingly racist TV show 'Bigtopians Say the Darndest Things' is a hit.

Question - With economic growth skyrocketing and MurrDurr’s prosperity rising, prominent business leaders have come to you with proposals to construct a national wonder as a symbol of these successes.

Answer 1 - “To mark this golden age,” declares Leo Tallstoy, CEO of Sky High Company, sitting upright with high hopes, “I suggest we build the tallest building in Osiris! Not only can we finally snatch that tallest building record from the United Federation, but it will break whatever doubts our citizens have about MurrDurr’s future! It will boost the economy and will be a good source of morale and patriotism. When aiming high, nothing’s worth the sky!”

Why does that sound like the ****ing stiffy in the liffey?

CruelCoin

"The bum of Leader has been voted the most recognisable in MurrDurr."

That's enough internet for now.....

Brian?

CruelCoin wrote: »

No other system has performed better for society. None, zip, zilch.
The alternative is queueing 4 hours for bogroll in Venezuela.

What system though? There are a number of conflicting systems operating in the world. Social democracies have tempered the worst excesses of a purely capitalist model.

CruelCoin

Brian? wrote: »

What system though? There are a number of conflicting systems operating in the world. Social democracies have tempered the worst excesses of a purely capitalist model.

Just as they have tempered the best successes of a purely capitalistic model.

We'll just have to disagree on which of those should get priority.