The left this, the right that..

suicide_circus

Afro Turner wrote: »

The also have this weird obsession with punishing those who stray from the righteous path of 'tolerance.

"It seems to me that what we're doing...is producing a tyrannous new morality that is every bit as oppressive as the old.” Professor David Starkey

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NIMAN wrote: »

How do you achieve 50/50 male/female electricians though?

By its nature, it will be very hard to do, unless you force a certain number of girls to study to become electricians.

But can you force people to do something to achieve equality?

Thou shalt achieve equality
Thou shalt forsake the evidence of thy'n senses
Let Diversity be thy'n graven image

1800_Ladladlad

More dribble from an OP leftie arguing the rise of the facist right, oh the anarchy. How has all this murican bolloxogy made its way to country. :mad:

Yer Da sells Avon

Philosophy Zombie wrote: »

Boards/Afterhours is a walk in the park compared to loads of other places I find.

Yeah, I think most of the right-wing stuff that gets posted on here is borne out of personal frustration, rather than the sort of ideological nastiness that you might see elsewhere. More often that not, I suspect they lack the intelligence to realise that they should maybe consider directing that frustration upwards, rather than constantly seeking groups of people whom they believe they are 'better than', in the hope of giving themselves a temporary boost.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Boards has become frighteningly right wing these days.

It really hasn’t.

From my perspective...

Ahh, I think I see the actual problem there. The problem is with your perspective, not with Boards.

So, what's the attraction to the right? What do you get out of it? What am I missing?

You’re missing the fact that from your perspective, anyone who agrees with you are lovely. Anyone who disagrees with your opinion are malevolent fcukwits unfit for the kind of society you wish existed.

fullstop

Deleted User wrote: »

No there isn't equality here.

We don't have equal amount of
Female/male electricians
Female/male nurses
Female/male teachers
Female/male members of boards
Female/male carers
Female/male stay at home parents
Female/male TD's

So what you're saying is, women and men choose different careers? Hold the press :rolleyes:

Danzy

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

More often that not, I suspect they lack the intelligence to realise that they should maybe consider directing that frustration upwards, rather than constantly seeking groups of people whom they believe they are 'better than', in the hope of giving themselves a temporary boost.

The mantra of so many on the Left today the people are thick. It used be disguised as a discussion on false consciousness.

That was bad enough because it closed down an examination of what drives people.

Your presuming a lot about people.

Yer Da sells Avon

Danzy wrote: »

The mantra of so many on the Left today the people are thick. It used be disguised as a discussion on false consciousness.

That was bad enough because it closed down an examination of what drives people.

Your presuming a lot about people.

Sorry, I probably should have worded it better. I didn't mean to imply that right-wing people are all thick. Some people are thick though, whatever their political inclination, and I think people who don't appear to be in a great position themselves, but feel the constant need to punch downwards - are being especially thick, as they are focusing on people even less powerful than themselves.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

Brian?

BeerWolf wrote: »

Strawman?

Have you ever tried having any discussions with such people? You'd swear they were trolls, but they're just delusional.

Everything is either black or white to them, with a "with us or against us" mentality.

How could I have discussions with people I claim don’t exist?

Brian?

Danzy wrote: »

The modern Left are too like the Catholic Church of old in manner.

Deeply intolerant of others, righteous and demanding conformity.

I'd say I am left of most people.

No we aren’t. The “left” is a massive variety of beliefs. Why the broad generalisation?

Brian?

BeerWolf wrote: »

That picture is misleading at best.

The extreme left today, say anarchists are completely anti authoritarian, where would the be on this?

BumChum

Liberal ideology only has traction in a world of plenty. That includes every form of "the left". It requires of a person an attitude of "sure, why not!? It's grand!"

Conservative ideology only has traction in a world of scarcity. That includes every form of "the right". It requires of a person an attitude of "things aren't looking up!"

The world is slowly realising that we live in a finite universe, strictly bound by finite rules of existence. Global warming, mass migration, dwindling resources in terms of housing and employment and natural materials, increasing "expense" of education, pressure on societal welfare, hospital systems...and so on.

These trends are one-way, there is precisely zero sign of a turn-around in fortune.

So as reality sets in, people are going to group together under conservative ideology out of necessity. Liberal ideology has some great merits, but its increasingly fictional foundations are crashing HARD against reality now.

Watch the next recession. That will be the biggest turning point of world ideology yet seen....IMO

Brian?

BumChum wrote: »

Liberal ideology only has traction in a world of plenty. That includes every form of "the left". It requires of a person an attitude of "sure, why not!? It's grand!"

Conservative ideology only has traction in a world of scarcity. That includes every form of "the right". It requires of a person an attitude of "things aren't looking up!"

The world is slowly realising that we live in a finite universe, strictly bound by finite rules of existence. Global warming, mass migration, dwindling resources in terms of housing and employment and natural materials, increasing "expense" of education, pressure on societal welfare, hospital systems...and so on.

These trends are one-way, there is precisely zero sign of a turn-around in fortune.

So as reality sets in, people are going to group together under conservative ideology out of necessity. Liberal ideology has some great merits, but its increasingly fictional foundations are crashing HARD against reality now.

Watch the next recession. That will be the biggest turning point of world ideology yet seen....IMO

What “liberal ideology”? Classic liberal ideology is laissez faire capitalism. Neo liberal ideology is a globalist form of the same.

I’d love to know where you’re getting this ideas from. The way it’s written has “liberals=socialists” Americanised nonsense written all over it.

Danzy

Danzy wrote: »

The modern Left are too like the Catholic Church of old in manner.

Deeply intolerant of others, righteous and demanding conformity..

In 2018, no ideology in the western world, if not in the entire planet, demands as much conformity as the fundamentalist free market consumerist ideology demands. Absolutely none. The has-been power of the RCC is a very convenient deflection from this consumerist ideology and its awesome range of intolerances.

Try set up a democratically elected socialist state in, say, Guatemala or Chile or Haiti or... and see what happens.

Let's all blame Travellers, feminists, dole scroungers and transgender people, though! And never, ever, ever, blame our rich-get-richer-poor-get-poorer economic system which is at the heart of everything. All good fundamentalist ideologies need their scapegoats.

Brian?

BumChum wrote: »

The world is slowly realising that we live in a finite universe, strictly bound by finite rules of existence.

Actually we don’t.

BumChum

Deleted User wrote: »

In 2018, no ideology in the western world, if not in the entire planet, demands as much conformity as the fundamentalist free market consumerist ideology demands. Absolutely none. The has-been power of the RCC is a very convenient deflection from this consumerist ideology and its awesome tange of intolerances.

Try set up a democratically elected socialist state in, say, and see what happens.

Let's all blame Travellers, feminists, dole scroungers and transgender people, though! And never, ever, ever, blame our rich-get-richer-poor-get-poorer economic system which is at the heart of everything. All good fundamentalist ideologies need their scapegoats.

I'd like to believe that more and more people are seeing beyond the distractions. Still a good distance to go yet, however!

All these things like multiple, multiple genders and crazed outcries over unisex toilets....its all just pure and utter nonsense. Its all a trojan horse to usher in a demoralised, subjugated society ripe for exploitation.

There is something far more insidious afoot than some useful idiots crying about anti-science. Don't get too distracted. As I said in my previous post, theres a whopper coming down the line and these people are running out of time, and know they are running out of time. Expect it all to get much louder and even less attached to reality in its dying breaths.

BumChum

Brian? wrote: »

Actually we don’t.

Oh, not everyone can see the bigger picture. But as I said, more and more will.

People may not pay much attention to global warming, but they certainly are noticing the normalisation of mass migration, for example. They don't like it, not when its affecting their bottom line of quality of life. This will be a down-up rectification.

People may not pay much attention to automation and over-stretched facility, but they certainly are noticing the scarcity of quality employment and increased cost. They don't like that either.

It doesn't take overly long to join dots. People are slow, no doubt, but it is inevitable.

igCorcaigh

Weird times alright, as much as the left and right are at war, there is also an alignment between certain aspects of both.

Maybe the post-modernists were right.

BumChum

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Weird times alright, as much as the left and right are at war, there is also an alignment between certain aspects of both.

Maybe the post-modernists were right.

Precisely! That meeting point of the minds is called "reality"!

The realities of the matter are global warming is happening (doesn't even matter "why"), automation is only getting started, the attempt at normalising mass migration, the attempt at de-nationalising state-hood, the attempt to convince nations/people that EVERYTHING is acceptable as a social norm etc. These are all incontrovertible truths, regardless of interpretation. They are happening. And lo and behold, people increasingly don't like it.

But interpretation is the real killer. There is SO much nonsense perpetually pumped on us day in and day out that frustrations are growing in tandem.

People are getting seriously pissed at the symptoms and not the diseases. I suppose it all leads to the same conclusion.

Just to take one point, global warming. My opinion is that there isn't a way to stop it, there is simply no way that we are going to be able to enact any kind of policy that will have meaningful impact. So, perhaps, a "liberal" solution is to draw up these no-hoper policies, it matches up with the general detachment from reality associated with that ideology. Great idea, not gonna work (so does that make it a "great" idea after all?)

The conservative "solution" will be a gigantic push-back against competitor nations in response to mass migration (caused by global warming, primarily). That will probably end in outright bloodshed. Ironically, a severe reduction in human population is our best bet. Its that sting of reality again.

BumChum

Brian? wrote: »

What “liberal ideology”? Classic liberal ideology is laissez faire capitalism. Neo liberal ideology is a globalist form of the same.

I’d love to know where you’re getting this ideas from. The way it’s written has “liberals=socialists” Americanised nonsense written all over it.

It definitely is an Americanised version of politics. Polarisation of politics, to be exact.

There is little to be gained in trying to sub-divide popular opinion now. The practicality is that there are two opposing umbrellas of social thought.

People en masse are not complicated, they purposefully seek out LESS choice in decision-making. It isn't surprising that a country, the USA, with an extremely large population has devolved into a binary choice. It isn't surprising that it is spreading across the world.

When the choice is finally made, THAT is the time to further sub-divide. The average person isn't inclined toward complex, seemingly contradictory choices. One at a time, that's the game right now.

Brian?

BumChum wrote: »

It definitely is an Americanised version of politics. Polarisation of politics, to be exact.

There is little to be gained in trying to sub-divide popular opinion now. The practicality is that there are two opposing umbrellas of social thought.

People en masse are not complicated, they purposefully seek out LESS choice in decision-making. It isn't surprising that a country, the USA, with an extremely large population has devolved into a binary choice. It isn't surprising that it is spreading across the world.

When the choice is finally made, THAT is the time to further sub-divide. The average person isn't inclined toward complex, seemingly contradictory choices. One at a time, that's the game right now.

What do you mean “sub divide popular opinion”? Socialists aren’t a sub division of liberals. As stated earlier, liberalism is an opposing ideology to socialism.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Left:
Equality among sexes
Recognising different genders exist
Social healthcare
Separating religion from government
Treating people equally
Environmental concerns

Right:
Business, markets, capitalism are most important
Money, if you don't have it, tough.
Conserving the status quo eg, no expansion for different genders, against gay marriage
Insularism (putting borders up, "looking after our own first")
Private healthcare, if you can afford it, you can have healthcare, its business.
No environmental concerns (it's all baloney - there's money to be made, now)
Keeping religion central to education, health, the system.

Boards has become frighteningly right wing these days. I dunno when that happened, but most of the time I can't be bothered to reply on a thread as I'll be drowned out.

I know for a fact that boards is not reflective of society as a whole (thank God!) but its a good time as any, to say, why are you freaked out by the left?

From my perspective, the left (while not perfect by any means) want society to become more inclusive, and try and focus on the individual being able to be an individual, while the right tends to generally care about money and possessions first, not wanting other people to recognise their own individuality, whether that be not recognising gender spectrum, or gay marriage for instance. They want to keep women down (the lambasting the #metoo movement is especially bizarre, as we all know women who've been harassed at one time or another)

So, what's the attraction to the right? What do you get out of it? What am I missing?

So what you're saying is that you vote Labour / SF?

Wanderer78

gozunda wrote:

So what you're saying is that you vote Labour / SF?

The political left is a fcuking disaster, proud lefty here

Brian?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The political left is a fcuking disaster, proud lefty here

It’s particularly bad in Ireland. Rampant populism.

Wanderer78

Brian? wrote: »

It’s particularly bad in Ireland. Rampant populism.

ah its not just here, the political left is in bits, and a lot of it is its own fault

CruelCoin

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The political left is a fcuking disaster, proud lefty here

Bring back the commie parties of the 1920-1940's?

CruelCoin

Deleted User wrote: »

And never, ever, ever, blame our rich-get-richer-poor-get-poorer economic system which is at the heart of everything.

No other system has performed better for society. None, zip, zilch.
The alternative is queueing 4 hours for bogroll in Venezuela.

CruelCoin

Just in case anyone is wondering where they lie on the spectrum





And also, a non stoopid site to give a broad indication of where you lie:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/
Been interesting to see my shift from left to right over the years.

Wanderer78

CruelCoin wrote: »

Bring back the commie parties of the 1920-1940's?

why? communism and socialism, not exactly awe inspiring are they?