Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

Try_harder

Nermal wrote: »

This Keynesian twaddle is always trotted out. Why not quadruple the bonus so? We'll have the national debt paid down in no time.

Why is it Twaddle? Because it doesnt fit your narrative? The state wouldnt have the money to pay it out quadruple in the first instance. People on message boards and liveline would lose their sh

Fr_Dougal

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Great another dole bashing thread, shove it up your arse.

No, stop.

We are at 5.1% unemployment.

Source:https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/unemployment-in-ireland-falls-to-post-crash-low-of-5-1-1.3552247

The Economic and Social Research Institute estimates that an unemployment rate of 5 per cent is almost equivalent to full employment in the Republic.

We’re at a point where anyone that wants a job, can have one.

There is no excuse for an able bodied person to be out of work. Time to get off their holes and stop blaming the government for everything. We’re well past the recession.

Keyzer

harr wrote: »

I am a full time carer for my disabled child and this bonus is a god send for the likes of me but I do understand people’s frustration with people that never worked getting the same money.
I would love to get back working but for the foreseeable future that won’t happen.
I have a neighbor who never worked a day in his life nothing wrong with him just lazy and the same for his missus. There house is paid for where as I struggle to pay a mortgage and struggling to keep a 15 year old car on the road. Yet he is swanning around in 2016 Mondeo. They both can afford to go to pub twice a week where I haven’t been out in months.
So I can see people’s frustration with certain people getting it but tar all people who receive social welfare with the same brush.

This thread is not aimed at people in situations like yourself - the OP stated this.

It's aimed at the long term lazy entitled b@stards who couldn't be arsed getting a job unemployed...

PlaneSpeeking

Keyzer wrote: »

This thread is not aimed at people in situations like yourself - the OP stated this.

It's aimed at the long term lazy entitled b@stards who couldn't be arsed getting a job unemployed...

Agreed, carers; the elderly and the disabled should get a double bonus and the purely workshy or professional incubators should get zip.

CruelCoin

Try_harder wrote: »

What % of the unemployed are long term moochers, would you say?

Almost all of the money goes straight back into the economy so its a double win

The issue for me is the dead loss. Needless waste.

Google "Economic dead loss to taxation"

Essentially when you apply a tax, the revenue generated is always less than the economic activity lost due to the tax. The difference is the dead-loss that has vanished from the economy.

Try_harder

CruelCoin wrote: »

The issue for me is the dead loss.

Google "Economic dead loss to taxation"

Essentially when you apply a tax, the revenue generated is always less than the economic activity lost due to the tax. The difference is the dead-loss that has vanished from the economy.

To give this payment, taxation needs to be higher than it would otherwise need to be.

Poorer people spend a much higher % of their income in the local economy

Doctors room ghost

Nermal wrote: »

This Keynesian twaddle is always trotted out. Why not quadruple the bonus so? We'll have the national debt paid down in no time.

Exactly.what about the lad who puts it into a vein in smack or up his nose in Charlie.or the pot head.or the lad smoking the smuggled cigarettes cos the shop ones are “robbing fukrs”.
The leech doesn’t care once the leech is looked after.
If it wasn’t for a soft society they’d be dead long ago.that same society they cause countless hassle to and bitch and moan about.

Try_harder

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Agreed, carers; the elderly and the disabled should get a double bonus and the purely workshy or professional incubators should get zip.

Then you will have a larger exploitation of carers and disability payments making it much more difficult for genuine people to qualify with additional checks and larger waiting periods

Try_harder

Leaving people destitute and in extreme poverty causes a rise in crime, not the opposite

engiweirdo

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

If it wasn’t for a soft society they’d be dead long ago.that same society they cause countless hassle to and bitch and moan about.

Or in the absence of welfare provision, they would be stealing your stuff to fund their habits/lifestyle on an even larger scale. You would likely have to invest heavily in security equipment/weaponry and the cost would exceed the tax cost of welfare provision in the first place with the bonus of now living in a notably less safe society.

Kivaro

harr wrote: »

I am a full time carer for my disabled child and this bonus is a god send for the likes of me but I do understand people’s frustration with people that never worked getting the same money.
I would love to get back working but for the foreseeable future that won’t happen.
I have a neighbor who never worked a day in his life nothing wrong with him just lazy and the same for his missus. There house is paid for where as I struggle to pay a mortgage and struggling to keep a 15 year old car on the road. Yet he is swanning around in 2016 Mondeo. They both can afford to go to pub twice a week where I haven’t been out in months.
So I can see people’s frustration with certain people getting it but tar all people who receive social welfare with the same brush.

Harr, I can assure you that Irish workers/contributors do not tar you all with the same brush. Carers like you should get multiples of what you are currently receiving; with the money coming from reduced payments to those who are scamming the system, and unfortunately there are many.

There are "professional" social welfare recipients who post on threads like these who jump up and down screaming that we are attacking all welfare recipients; they do this for a particular reason.
Our objections are aimed at those members of the entitled brigade e.g. the likes of Erica Fleming and Margaret Cash.

ichabod

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Every man woman and child is spending €1300 a year on alcohol, 6 billion in total. And we spend the most in Europe per head on Christmas.

I want to know who the scumbags are who sell alcohol to children. And where are those kids getting the money to buy it ?

harr

In a situation where someone is long term unemployed can they not be made take up employment.. a factory near to me doubled its size and were looking for 15 warehouse operative‘s with good enough rates of pay and they were struggling to fill those roles and this is in a small enough town.
The jobs didn’t require previous experience , why can’t the long term unemployed be made take up these jobs.. I also noticed about 10 part time positions in various shops around the town and again they seem to struggle to fill those positions.

Wanderer78

ichabod wrote: »

I want to know who the scumbags are who sell alcohol to children. And where are those kids getting the money to buy it ?

alcohol brewers maybe?

Hector Savage

Cutie 3.14 wrote: »

Sure off to the dole queue with yourself then if they have it so good...

Brilliant username!!!!

Samsgirl

harr wrote: »

In a situation where someone is long term unemployed can they not be made take up employment.. a factory near to me doubled its size and were looking for 15 warehouse operative‘s with good enough rates of pay and they were struggling to fill those roles and this is in a small enough town.
The jobs didn’t require previous experience , why can’t the long term unemployed be made take up these jobs.. I also noticed about 10 part time positions in various shops around the town and again they seem to struggle to fill those positions.

Because those who don't want to work don't have to. Simple as that. They have their house and pay minimum rent, medical card, social welfare payment, fuel allowance etc. .. no incentive to make their own way.
Meanwhile we are the working poor. Struggling to pay for everything. Mortgage, doctor, property tax etc. Hoping my 8 year old car will keep getting me to/from work every day.

suicide_circus

Nermal wrote: »

This Keynesian twaddle is always trotted out. Why not quadruple the bonus so? We'll have the national debt paid down in no time.

+1

look the bonus is a crowd pleaser and as long as it is matched with an equivalent tax relief in December for working people, I don't see how it can be viewed as unjustified.
After all, that would go even farther to boosting the economy and clearing the national debt. Capitalism is great.

Wanderer78

Samsgirl wrote: »

Because those who don't want to work don't have to. Simple as that. They have their house and pay minimum rent, medical card, social welfare payment, fuel allowance etc. .. no incentive to make their own way.
Meanwhile we are the working poor. Struggling to pay for everything. Mortgage, doctor, property tax etc. Hoping my 8 year old car will keep getting me to/from work every day.

maybe theres a lot more complicated issues at play here, maybe issues such as 'asset price inflation' is having more of an effect on the cost of living than other factors?

Doctor Jimbob

Samsgirl wrote: »

Because those who don't want to work don't have to. Simple as that. They have their house and pay minimum rent, medical card, social welfare payment, fuel allowance etc. .. no incentive to make their own way.
Meanwhile we are the working poor. Struggling to pay for everything. Mortgage, doctor, property tax etc. Hoping my 8 year old car will keep getting me to/from work every day.

Go on the dole so.

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Don’t really have a problem with this as there is genuine people who have lost their jobs and that always happens.

It’s the long term moochers etc I have the problem with.

From Citizens Advice

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/christmas_bonus.html

“For Jobseeker’s Allowance (JA) or Basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance (BSWA), you must be getting the payment for 15 months to get a Christmas Bonus. However, if you were getting another payment eligible for the Christmas Bonus immediately before claiming JA or BSWA, and your combined time on eligible payments is 15 months, you will get the Christmas Bonus”

Kivaro

harr wrote: »

In a situation where someone is long term unemployed can they not be made take up employment.. a factory near to me doubled its size and were looking for 15 warehouse operative‘s with good enough rates of pay and they were struggling to fill those roles and this is in a small enough town.
The jobs didn’t require previous experience , why can’t the long term unemployed be made take up these jobs.. I also noticed about 10 part time positions in various shops around the town and again they seem to struggle to fill those positions.

This is the core issue with the social welfare system in Ireland. It is just too generous.

For many, the welfare system pays them more not to work versus taking a job (and be a contributing member of our society). There is no incentive for them to work while there are many rewards (including this increased Christmas bonus) for them not to work.

Ronaldinho

suicide_circus wrote: »

+1

look the bonus is a crowd pleaser and as long as it is matched with an equivalent tax relief in December for working people, I don't see how it can be viewed as unjustified.

It's unjustified because as has been said multiple times above, with the economy how it is at present anyone who wants a job can get one. The problem is that policies like this just provide even more of a disincentive for people to get off their holes. Imho it would be far better to give a massive tax break to the long term unemployed who enter the workforce.

Wanderer78

Kivaro wrote: »

This is the core issue with the social welfare system in Ireland. It is just too generous.

For many, the welfare system pays them more not to work versus taking a job (and be a contributing member of our society). There is no incentive for them to work while there are many rewards (including this increased Christmas bonus) for them not to work.

so we should lobby for an increase in pay, particularly for low wage earners?

Samsgirl

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Go on the dole so.

Will I get my mortgage paid for me if I do?

ThunbergsAreGo

Why doesn't everyone complaining about write to your elected politicians stating your opinion on this and how you can no longer support their party due to it?

It would have more impact than posting on an internet forum

Doctor Jimbob

Samsgirl wrote: »

Will I get my mortgage paid for me if I do?

No but apparently you'll get a free house so it'll be grand.

Paulzx

harr wrote: »

I am a full time carer for my disabled child and this bonus is a god send for the likes of me but I do understand people’s frustration with people that never worked getting the same money.
I would love to get back working but for the foreseeable future that won’t happen.
I have a neighbor who never worked a day in his life nothing wrong with him just lazy and the same for his missus. There house is paid for where as I struggle to pay a mortgage and struggling to keep a 15 year old car on the road. Yet he is swanning around in 2016 Mondeo. They both can afford to go to pub twice a week where I haven’t been out in months.
So I can see people’s frustration with certain people getting it but tar all people who receive social welfare with the same brush.

The reality is that if we dealt properly with the long term welfare claimers who have made a lifestyle choice by not ever working there would be much more resources available to help people like yourself.

You are a victim of circumstance who are providing admirable care for a family member unable to care for themselves. You are probably working harder and doing more hours than any of us in "jobs."

suicide_circus

Ronaldinho wrote: »

It's unjustified because as has been said multiple times above, with the economy how it is at present anyone who wants a job can get one. The problem is that policies like this just provide even more of a disincentive for people to get off their holes. Imho it would be far better to give a massive tax break to the long term unemployed who enter the workforce.

yeah but sales of Chinese made grey tracksuit bottoms and the share price of UK owned JD Sports will sky rocket, it's all about the economy.

ThunbergsAreGo

Deleted User wrote: »

From Citizens Advice

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/christmas_bonus.html

“For Jobseeker’s Allowance (JA) or Basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance (BSWA), you must be getting the payment for 15 months to get a Christmas Bonus. However, if you were getting another payment eligible for the Christmas Bonus immediately before claiming JA or BSWA, and your combined time on eligible payments is 15 months, you will get the Christmas Bonus”

Am i reading that wrong, or does that seem the exact opposite of what it should be?

One of the biggest problems that we have in this country is that people have a huge sense of entitlement.

We were in recession for years and are still billions in debt. You wouldn't really think it when you look around. Kids are wearing high end clothes, using smartphones, have playstation 4's. People are still going on holidays every year to Spain and other locations.

Buying presents at Xmas is a luxury, not a requirement. If you don't have money, buy small gifts, do a kris kindle. Going on holidays is also a luxury. People can take time off and go to Howth, Bray, Glendalough, Powerscourt.
Smartphones, high end clothes etc, all luxuries.

I might sound like a rich snob but I am a 32 year old on 32K.
People need to live within their means.