Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

walshb

Wilder Points

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I think saying Wilder has poor boxing skills is overrating them . Personal opinion

We'll see....

Wilder won't be knocked out or out-boxed next month....

Wilder, when he tries and relaxes and boxes isn't near as bad as people think.

walshb

Wilder Points

Sweet.Science wrote: »

The only way i see Wilder winning by KO is if Fury is a shell of his former self. Which could well happen

At least you have your excuse ready!

yourdeadwright

Draw

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I agree we we could go on and on

Wilder has knocked out cans bar a 60 year old Ortiz . And the only reason that happened was Ortiz was completely gassed.

The only way i see Wilder winning by KO is if Fury is a shell of his former self. Which could well happen

Very narrow view,
What happens if Wilder knocks down Fury Multiple times but Fury hangs on, Fury could easy lose on points then,
There are multiple ways this fight can end noo ne can be 100% sure,

Personally if I had to bet i'd be 70 % wilder KO and 30 % Fury on the cards,

but again god only knows

yourdeadwright

Draw

One other thing, people have been given Fury a lot of credit for losing the weight which is correct
But iv heard people say he looks in the best shape of his life which is nonsense, in the recent pics he is no where need the shape he was for the Wlad fight, He isn't even close to the same shape,

yourdeadwright

Draw

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I think saying Wilder has poor boxing skills is overrating them . Personal opinion

I think people will be shocked how good Wilder boxing is ,he is no joke ,

The fact he has gone wild when going for the kill against bums who pose no treat is seriously throwing peoples opinion , He boxed very well v Ortiz who is still a handful for anyone in the first half of a fight,

Sweet.Science

Draw

walshb wrote: »

At least you have your excuse ready!

No it will be easy to tell. Like Bellew knocking out Haye . I will be the 1st to give him credit if he beats a game Fury

walshb

Wilder Points

Sweet.Science wrote: »

No it will be easy to tell. Like Bellew knocking out Haye . I will be the 1st to give him credit if he beats a game Fury

Look, even a prime Fury could be hit and hurt and wobbled.....

So, Wilder could beat any version of him if he lands the bomb....

There are no excuses......

Sweet.Science

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Look, even a prime Fury could be hit and hurt and wobbled.....

So, Wilder could beat any version of him if he lands the bomb....

There are no excuses......

Strange way of looking at it

For example I dont think Danny Williams deserves huge credit for beating Tyson just because those punches would of hurt him in his prime aswel

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Look, even a prime Fury could be hit and hurt and wobbled.....

So, Wilder could beat any version of him if he lands the bomb....

There are no excuses......

If Wilder beats Fury he has beat this Fury ,just like any other fight you can only beat the guy in front of you,
Its not excuses its the truth ,

I just hope Fury is in decent fight shape just so we get a good fight, Its not often we get the top guys to face each other so who ever wins I hope both guys are fit and ready to give it there all ,

I really hope whoever wins goes on to fight AJ next (althought it won't happen), it would be great to have that one champion for people to aim to beat,

I favour Wilder 70/30 over Fury , but nothing will surprise me in this one,

walshb

Wilder Points

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Strange way of looking at it

For example I dont think Danny Williams deserves huge credit for beating Tyson just because those punches would of hurt him in his prime aswel

But a prime Tyson takes Williams out inside two rds. So, not sure of this comparison at all...

Fitter, faster, stronger.....everything......AND took a bettre punch when in his prime...

In this match: Wilder IMO takes any version of Fury out, because I believe Fury not to be able to avoid getting clean clocked for 12 rds, and nor do I believe he takes Wilder out (enabling Fury to win via KO/TKO) and thus avoiding himself getting knocked out.

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Wilder beats Fury he has beat this Fury ,just like any other fight you can only beat the guy in front of you,
Its not excuses its the truth ,

I just hope Fury is in decent fight shape just so we get a good fight, Its not often we get the top guys to face each other so who ever wins I hope both guys are fit and ready to give it there all ,

I really hope whoever wins goes on to fight AJ next (althought it won't happen), it would be great to have that one champion for people to aim to beat,

I favour Wilder 70/30 over Fury , but nothing will surprise me in this one,

Of course you can only beat what's in front of you....

I simply made the point that we can expect the Fury fans to put a slant on it and downplay the KO loss as being a Wilder KO against a past his best Fury.

Yes, he is past his best I feel......

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Sweet.Science wrote: »

No it will be easy to tell. Like Bellew knocking out Haye . I will be the 1st to give him credit if he beats a game Fury

Look, even a prime Fury could be hit and hurt and wobbled.....

So, Wilder could beat any version of him if he lands the bomb....

There are no excuses......

I wouldn't say a prime Fury was ever wobbled or hurt. He was a very different fighter back then. Over 5 years since the Cunningham fight. I wouldn't be reading too much into that flash knockdown personally.

The thing is he could turn up and perform better than ever for this fight or he could turn up worse than he was when he was 24 and still learning. Nobody knows until that bell goes really. Everything is just speculation.

I wouldn't be getting carried away with how Fury looks body wise either. What his actual fitness and athleticism is like coming off the two years he's had is another thing. Everyone thought Tyson was going to be back to his best against Lewis after he got himself looking in great shape. Once he went in the ring it made no odds though.

I'm 50/50 on this fight and am not sure if I'll be able to budge. My main worry even if Fury looks a million dollars is how late Wilder carries his power. He's got a fair few late KO's and I just find it hard to believe Fury won't be blowing out of his arse late given how intense a fight this will be. Even mentally he's going to have to be so on it that it's going to drain him.

yourdeadwright

Draw

That's why the most likely outcome is a Wilder Ko , he needs one clean shot in 12 rounds, Fury's concentration dips for a few second or its good night,

I hope Fury wins but its a very very big ask ,

Morrison J

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I think saying Wilder has poor boxing skills is overrating them . Personal opinion

I think people will be shocked how good Wilder boxing is ,he is no joke ,

The fact he has gone wild when going for the kill against bums who pose no treat is seriously throwing peoples opinion , He boxed very well v Ortiz who is still a handful for anyone in the first half of a fight,

Based on what is Wilder a particularly good boxer though? He was getting outboxed by Artur Szpilka who went life and death with Mariusz Wach at the weekend. I thought a 40 year old Ortiz was fairly easily outboxing him too until he slowed down. His punching technique is awful.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

He's got a fair few late KO's and I just find it hard to believe Fury won't be blowing out of his arse late given how intense a fight this will be. Even mentally he's going to have to be so on it that it's going to drain him.

This is just it....

There are folks here who think Wilder fights scared. How intense can a scared fighter actually press/force and fight?

I reckon it goes no more that 4 rds. The first few are feeling out and establishing range and all that.....Wilder gets more and more aggressive (relatively speaking, to appease those who says he fights scared) and within 4 or so rds he catches Fury clean and takes him out with one sho,. or follow ups...

yourdeadwright

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

Based on what is Wilder a particularly good boxer though? He was getting outboxed by Artur Szpilka who went life and death with Mariusz Wach at the weekend. I thought a 40 year old Ortiz was fairly easily outboxing him too until he slowed down. His punching technique is awful.

He was ahead on the scorecard v Ortiz ? who himself is a very very good boxer,

How was he getting outboxed by Artur Szpilka ?
He was 2 rounds up by one judged and 4 rounds up on the other two ,when he knocked him out , We do people try to rewrite fights for there own agenda's

He isn't an amazing boxer but he is a lot better than your average heavy weight, he got bronze in an Olympics , people make up nonsense when talking about his boxing skills,

walshb

Wilder Points

This claim of Ortiz easily out-boxing him stinks of a plain dislike for Wilder the boxer...

I must have been watching a completely different fight, but neither Ortiz or Spitkza were easily out-boxing him...

On here Wilder must be the most disliked and "slated" boxer ever.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

Based on what is Wilder a particularly good boxer though? He was getting outboxed by Artur Szpilka who went life and death with Mariusz Wach at the weekend. I thought a 40 year old Ortiz was fairly easily outboxing him too until he slowed down. His punching technique is awful.

He was ahead on the scorecard v Ortiz ? who himself is a very very good boxer,

How was he getting outboxed by Artur Szpilka ?
He was 2 rounds up by one judged and 4 rounds up on the other two ,when he knocked him out , We do people try to rewrite fights for there own agenda's

He isn't an amazing boxer but he is a lot better than your average heavy weight, he got bronze in an Olympics , people make up nonsense when talking about his boxing skills,

Judges scores can be generous to the a-side..

I personally had Ortiz clearly up and thought he swept the first four rounds. I also thought Szpilka swept the early rounds and it was probably level at the time of the stoppage. Maybe a bit strong to say Wilder was getting outboxed but he was having difficulty with a very average boxer. One that Fury is multiple levels above. I think boxing wise he is an average heavyweight. Olympic medals aren't the be all and end all especially at heavyweight. Look at Audley, Price etc. Wilder won via countback in the quarter final too. He wasn't a special amateur boxer by any stretch.

yourdeadwright

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

Judges scores can be generous to the a-side..

I personally had Ortiz clearly up and thought he swept the first four rounds. I also thought Szpilka swept the early rounds and it was probably level at the time of the stoppage. Maybe a bit strong to say Wilder was getting outboxed but he was having difficulty with a very average boxer. One that Fury is multiple levels above. I think boxing wise he is an average heavyweight. Olympic medals aren't the be all and end all especially at heavyweight. Look at Audley, Price etc. Wilder won via countback in the quarter final too. He wasn't a special amateur boxer by any stretch.

No he wasn't special but he was also a very very late starter in boxing so to be where he is he has done amazing,

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

This claim of Ortiz easily out-boxing him stinks of a plain dislike for Wilder the boxer...

I must have been watching a completely different fight, but neither Ortiz or Spitkza were easily out-boxing him...

On here Wilder must be the most disliked and "slated" boxer ever.

There is one obvious answer to why ,

The average person has just watched youtube highlights of his ko's and finishes which are wild and not the whole fights,

Wilder takes his time and box's well but when he smells he has you in trouble he swings wild for the ko and so far its worked, so people have just seen them highlights and think he is a wild man ,

Morrison J

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There is one obvious answer to why ,

The average person has just watched youtube highlights of his ko's and finishes which are wild and not the whole fights,

Wilder takes his time and box's well but when he smells he has you in trouble he swings wild for the ko and so far its worked, so people have just seen them highlights and think he is a wild man ,

Nah I think the obvious answer is that we've seen him behind against Ortiz, Washington and Szpilka. Ortiz is a high level boxer but the other two? Not so much.

What does he actually do well as a boxer? He has an ok jab but we haven't really seen that in recent fights. One punch power aside, what does he do better than Fury or Joshua?

I do like Wilder for the record. Taking the Ortiz and Fury fights back to back and agreeing to fight Povetkin in Russia are extremely balls-y moves and deserve a lot of respect. He's just not a particularly good boxer though. I'm not sure how anyone could watch him and think compared to the other top heavyweights he's a particularly skilled boxer. He just clearly isn't. That being said, he gives himself a chance against any fighter in the world because that right hand is the most devastating punch in the sport at the moment. There really isn't any more to do than that.

yourdeadwright

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

Nah I think the obvious answer is that we've seen him behind against Ortiz, Washington and Szpilka. Ortiz is a high level boxer but the other two? Not so much.

What does he actually do well as a boxer? He has an ok jab but we haven't really seen that in recent fights. One punch power aside, what does he do better than Fury or Joshua?

I do like Wilder for the record. Taking the Ortiz and Fury fights back to back and agreeing to fight Povetkin in Russia are extremely balls-y moves and deserve a lot of respect. He's just not a particularly good boxer though. I'm not sure how anyone could watch him and think compared to the other top heavyweights he's a particularly skilled boxer. He just clearly isn't. That being said, he gives himself a chance against any fighter in the world because that right hand is the most devastating punch in the sport at the moment. There really isn't any more to do than that.

Its funny you keep saying it but Officially he was not behind in any of them fights when he got the KO . Your just making it up for your own argument,

Closest was the Washington fight where two judges had them level and one had him up a round, but again he stopped him in the 5th round so job done,

He has literally stopped everyone he has fought the only fight he looked like losing or in trouble was Ortiz who give anyone trouble in the first half of a fight,


He is a far better boxer than you give him credit,

Sweet.Science

Draw

walshb wrote: »

But a prime Tyson takes Williams out inside two rds. So, not sure of this comparison at all...

Fitter, faster, stronger.....everything......AND took a bettre punch when in his prime...

In this match: Wilder IMO takes any version of Fury out, because I believe Fury not to be able to avoid getting clean clocked for 12 rds, and nor do I believe he takes Wilder out (enabling Fury to win via KO/TKO) and thus avoiding himself getting knocked out.

He could easily avoid it for 12 rounds . Easily . He has one big right hand that Fury could see coming the night before the fight . THe only reason Fury gets caught with that is if his legs are gone ( like Ortiz ) or he gets too arrogant because he finds it all too easy

Morrison J

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its funny you keep saying it but Officially he was not behind in any of them fights when he got the KO . Your just making it up for your own argument,

Closest was the Washington fight where two judges had them level and one had him up a round, but again he stopped him in the 5th round so job done,

He has literally stopped everyone he has fought the only fight he looked like losing or in trouble was Ortiz who give anyone trouble in the first half of a fight,


He is a far better boxer than you give him credit,

Well in my eyes he got swept in the opening rounds of each of those fights. I'm not sure how the judges scored the early rounds but the majority of opinion out there would agree with me that he had to come from behind in those fights. He should really be outboxing guys like Washington and Szpilka from the bell if he's a good boxer.

I'm not knocking his effectiveness at all. He gets the job done no doubt but I'm not going to pretend he's a very good boxer when he's not. He does literally everything wrong and he's been outboxed by B-level heavyweights.

He's been in trouble more times than just the Ortiz fight. He was also pretty badly hurt against Molina and Sconiers dropped him hard early in his career too. No footage of it but apparently Wilder was saved by the bell. He was far rawer back then though I'd concede but so was Fury when he was dropped and everyone brings that up.

One punch power aside, what does he do better than Fury or Joshua?

Sweet.Science

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

Well in my eyes he got swept in the opening rounds of each of those fights. I'm not sure how the judges scored the early rounds but the majority of opinion out there would agree with me that he had to come from behind in those fights. He should really be outboxing guys like Washington and Szpilka from the bell if he's a good boxer.

I'm not knocking his effectiveness at all. He gets the job done no doubt but I'm not going to pretend he's a very good boxer when he's not. He does literally everything wrong and he's been outboxed by B-level heavyweights.

He's been in trouble more times than just the Ortiz fight. He was also pretty badly hurt against Molina and Sconiers dropped him hard early in his career too. No footage of it but apparently Wilder was saved by the bell. He was far rawer back then though I'd concede but so was Fury when he was dropped and everyone brings that up.

One punch power aside, what does he do better than Fury or Joshua?

Stop talking sense

yourdeadwright

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

Well in my eyes he got swept in the opening rounds of each of those fights. I'm not sure how the judges scored the early rounds but the majority of opinion out there would agree with me that he had to come from behind in those fights. He should really be outboxing guys like Washington and Szpilka from the bell if he's a good boxer.

I'm not knocking his effectiveness at all. He gets the job done no doubt but I'm not going to pretend he's a very good boxer when he's not. He does literally everything wrong and he's been outboxed by B-level heavyweights.

He's been in trouble more times than just the Ortiz fight. He was also pretty badly hurt against Molina and Sconiers dropped him hard early in his career too. No footage of it but apparently Wilder was saved by the bell. He was far rawer back then though I'd concede but so was Fury when he was dropped and everyone brings that up.

One punch power aside, what does he do better than Fury or Joshua?

I don't understand why "SHOULD " be out boxing people form the opening bell ?,
Its the heavy weights , one wrong move and its curtains ,
So he always starts slow and patient and has a good look at what someone has ,Once he figures them out he turns up the heat and knocks them out,

Even if he done nothing better than Fury/AJ doesn't mean he is a bad boxer ?

I'm not going to compare him to Fury as we have no idea where he is at currently, so its impossible to tell ,

He has more power AJ
He is Quicker than AJ and not as stiff,
This may surprise you but I think he has a better Jab than AJ,
There chins could booth be caught at , like anyone at the weight class,

I give AJ the advantage with his footwork ,

AJ foot work is very simple but I think it works ,
Wilder tries to keep the wide stance but when he doesn't he crosses his feet to much which could get him chinned against the AJ.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

Well in my eyes he got swept in the opening rounds of each of those fights. I'm not sure how the judges scored the early rounds but the majority of opinion out there would agree with me that he had to come from behind in those fights. He should really be outboxing guys like Washington and Szpilka from the bell if he's a good boxer.

I'm not knocking his effectiveness at all. He gets the job done no doubt but I'm not going to pretend he's a very good boxer when he's not. He does literally everything wrong and he's been outboxed by B-level heavyweights.

He's been in trouble more times than just the Ortiz fight. He was also pretty badly hurt against Molina and Sconiers dropped him hard early in his career too. No footage of it but apparently Wilder was saved by the bell. He was far rawer back then though I'd concede but so was Fury when he was dropped and everyone brings that up.

One punch power aside, what does he do better than Fury or Joshua?

I don't understand why "SHOULD " be out boxing people form the opening bell ?,
Its the heavy weights , one wrong move and its curtains ,
So he always starts slow and patient and has a good look at what someone has ,Once he figures them out he turns up the heat and knocks them out,

What did Wilder figure out in the Ortiz fight though exactly? Seemed to me like the 40 year old Ortiz got tired and Wilder got to him as a result. Early in that fight Ortiz was moving to his right, taking Wilders right hand out of the equation and Wilder was petrified to throw anything at all for fear of what would come back. He caught up with Ortiz as Ortiz slowed because he's old and not used to boxing at that kind of pace. Wouldn't say Wilder ever figures out an opponent and then outboxes them Andre Ward style. It's all far more crude than that. I don't think he's a particularly smart boxer.

The more I think about it the more I think the fight nearly completely comes down to whether Fury has the fitness to go 12 rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if Fury completely copies what Ortiz did in boxing southpaw and moving pretty much solely to his right to try eradicate Wilder's right hand. He might keep switching stances to make Wilder even more gun-shy than he'll inevitably be early like he did to Wlad though who knows. What Ortiz tried to do I'm absolutely sure Fury can do better, I just don't know if his gas tank will hold up better.

Will be nearly three years to the day since Fury boxed a 12 round fight. It's absolutely mental that he's taking this fight when he is but you've got to respect how balls-y a move it is.

yourdeadwright

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

What did Wilder figure out in the Ortiz fight though exactly? Seemed to me like the 40 year old Ortiz got tired and Wilder got to him as a result. Early in that fight Ortiz was moving to his right, taking Wilders right hand out of the equation and Wilder was petrified to throw anything at all for fear of what would come back. He caught up with Ortiz as Ortiz slowed because he's old and not used to boxing at that kind of pace. Wouldn't say Wilder ever figures out an opponent and then outboxes them Andre Ward style. It's all far more crude than that. I don't think he's a particularly smart boxer.

The more I think about it the more I think the fight nearly completely comes down to whether Fury has the fitness to go 12 rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if Fury completely copies what Ortiz did in boxing southpaw and moving pretty much solely to his right to try eradicate Wilder's right hand. He might keep switching stances to make Wilder even more gun-shy than he'll inevitably be early like he did to Wlad though who knows. What Ortiz tried to do I'm absolutely sure Fury can do better, I just don't know if his gas tank will hold up better.

Will be nearly three years to the day since Fury boxed a 12 round fight. It's absolutely mental that he's taking this fight when he is but you've got to respect how balls-y a move it is.

Wilder won 4 of the first 6 rounds , it was Ortiz who won the two round before the one he was ko'sd in, so it was him who was catching up wit Wilder not the other way around ,

Just a quick one someone said to me the weekend that Ben Davies is only 25 is that correct ?

I knew he was young but thought he was at least in his early 30's ?

walshb

Wilder Points

May as well stick the BO link now...

https://www.productsandservices.bt.com/sport/box-office/

The Nal

Assume it'll be a 3am ish main event?