Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

Morrison J

Really not confident about choosing a winner in this one. I'd take prime Fury with confidence but it might be a bit soon for this version. Sitting on the fence for now. 

Can see the build up becoming a bit tiring but I can live with it when the fight is as good as this one. Circus started yesterday with the first press conference in London.

walshb

Wilder Points

Very choreographed all this...

I just hope the fight is real...

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Very choreographed all this...

I just hope the fight is real...

Course the fight will be real , why wouldn't it bizarre thing to say ,
Great to see top guys get in with each other, Going to be very very interesting fight to watch,
Wilder trying to land that right hand and Fury trying to frustrate him,
Fury is no mug he will try to get Wilder emotional involved , a patient Wilder is the most dangerous one Fury can fight he knows that, He will want Wilder telegraphing the right hands easiest way for that to happen is get him angry ,

walshb

Wilder Points

Nothing in pro boxing and big money and big promotion is bizarre....

There has just been something about their "animosity" that doesn't add up.....

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Nothing in pro boxing and big money and big promotion is bizarre....

There has just been something about their "animosity" that doesn't add up.....

Never seen you with the worry for one of AJ's fights ?
Maybe the like each other as people and are trying to sell a fight , hardly the first or last time that will happen in the fight game, 
Wilder said himself yesterday its nice to work with a fighter that is flexible about things and if there are issue you can call and chat about them, I don't think they dislike each other at all ,

walshb

Wilder Points

Well, so far none of AJs fights and build ups have had me wondering/thinking...

None of Fury's or Wilder's previous fights had me thinking or wondering either.

This one? Something just a bit odd about it all....just a feeling.

Will it be a full on committal from both, or a bit of an arranged spar/dance?....

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Maybe the like each other as people and are trying to sell a fight , hardly the first or last time that will happen in the fight game, 
Wilder said himself yesterday its nice to work with a fighter that is flexible about things and if there are issue you can call and chat about them, I don't think they dislike each other at all ,

But they are not acting as if they like each other.......it's kind of staged/forced animosity. I know, I know, this happens from time to time.....just a feeling is all.

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Well, so far none of AJs fights and build ups have had me wondering/thinking...

None of Fury's or Wilder's previous fights had me thinking or wondering either.

This one? Something just a bit odd about it all....just a feeling.

Will it be a full on committal from both, or a bit of an arranged spar/dance?....

Why on gods name would either of them not want to win ?
Wilder is the hardest hitter in boxing no chance you can play with that you'll end up in hospital, Plus no chance Wilder give's Fury the win and the money fight v AJ is gone
Its a fight and a massive one , just cause its Furyand not AJ your already trying to talk it down into some kinda circus ,

Morrison J

Wilder Points

There'll be shades of McGregor - Mayweather in the promotion of this without a doubt. Two guys who have no beef with each other forcing it a bit in order to help make it sell.

Doesn't bother me at all though in this instance tbh. It's a genuinely great fight. Both deserve a big pay day for taking such a massive risk when they didn't have to.

Fury deserves far more credit than he's getting for even taking this fight coming off two piss poor tune ups too. Absolutely no pressure on him to jump into a big fight straight away but the opportunity was there and he took it. Fair play to him, taking the riskiest fight possible.

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Why on gods name would either of them not want to win ?
Wilder is the hardest hitter in boxing no chance you can play with that you'll end up in hospital, Plus no chance Wilder give's Fury the win and the money fight v AJ is gone
Its a fight and a massive one , just cause its Furyand not AJ your already trying to talk it down into some kinda circus ,

Keep your knickers on...like I said it’s just a feeling as regards this particular fight.

Get over your AJ infatuation...

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Fury deserves far more credit than he's getting for even taking this fight coming off two piss poor tune ups too. Absolutely no pressure on him to jump into a big fight straight away but the opportunity was there and he took it. Fair play to him, taking the riskiest fight possible.

Do you think that he may feel that this is as good as he’ll get? So kind of pressured into big money now? He looked dreadful in his comebacks...

The three years off and the drugs and all that may have really ruined any hope of Fury being at the 2015 level..

walshb

Wilder Points

I know he has to sell himself but listening to Fury in NY today saying how he’s never been better, never been as fast or explosive is utter bull..he musn’t have watched back the last two fights..

Littlehorny

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

There'll be shades of McGregor - Mayweather in the promotion of this without a doubt. Two guys who have no beef with each other forcing it a bit in order to help make it sell.

Doesn't bother me at all though in this instance tbh. It's a genuinely great fight. Both deserve a big pay day for taking such a massive risk when they didn't have to.

Fury deserves far more credit than he's getting for even taking this fight coming off two piss poor tune ups too. Absolutely no pressure on him to jump into a big fight straight away but the opportunity was there and he took it. Fair play to him, taking the riskiest fight possible.

Very good point regarding giving kudo's to Fury for taking the fight, wish more fighters took risks these days. He has looked terrible as you say. Hope the plan is not to stink out the joint but what other way can he do it?

Wilder is no master boxer but what he does have is a big arm span and he has decent hand speed so Fury will have to dodge all night. We all know Wilder has that big overhand right but he also has a good whipping left hook that may surprise Fury.

I think Wilder should also go to the body to give Fury something to think about and Fury must come in very fit as Wilder doesn't tire too badly and is always in shape.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Do you think that he may feel that this is as good as he’ll get? So kind of pressured into big money now? He looked dreadful in his comebacks...

The three years off and the drugs and all that may have really ruined any hope of Fury being at the 2015 level..

Hes definitely getting his best career pay day but I'd still imagine if he was purely cashing out then he'd do it in the biggest money fight possible ie Joshua. Instead he's going to the States to fight a guy who couldn't sell out Barclays in his last fight and has never appeared on PPV. Don't think this can be spun in any way other than Fury being ballsy as **** and backing himself. Think he genuinely sees weaknesses in Wilder (which we all can to be fair) and thinks it's a fight he'll win.

walshb

Wilder Points

Can we arrange the poll so we see how people have voted?

Southwest Alaska

Wilder Points

The supposedly 6 foot 9 Fury looks a shade shorter than the 6 foot 7 Wilder.

Draw

I think Fury wins this if he can show his old form. The guy beat Klitschko without getting knocked down and toyed with for several rounds.

Wilder is a bit overated IMO. And Fury always written off.

normanoffside

Draw

Southwest Alaska wrote: »

The supposedly 6 foot 9 Fury looks a shade shorter than the 6 foot 7 Wilder.

People were saying the same with the Wlad presser but Fury looked way taller in the Ring.
Wilder probably was wearing some sort of elevated/thick soled shoes.

walshb

Wilder Points

Southwest Alaska wrote: »

The supposedly 6 foot 9 Fury looks a shade shorter than the 6 foot 7 Wilder.

Depends what angles...

I saw some where they looked same height and some where Fury looked an inch or two taller..

someyoke

Draw

Watched Wilder's last fight v Ortiz I think... Looked very average, outboxed waiting for the big shot which came. Fury at 75% of 2015 form will jab away all night. If he's regained some power he'll sap the energy from Wilder too. It's where Ortiz fell down.

Hoping the fury comeback really takes off from here. Think he'll win, he's a bit like Billy Joe Saunders in that he often looks average and only does enough against the bums, but is at the races for the big nights. His shape come fight night will tell a lot.

FTA69

Draw

Fury is the greatest heavyweight of all time and will win this fight handily, I've seen it in a vision. He's 6/4 too for the straight win.

If the layoff hasn't affected him too much I think he'll do the business. And he'll sing us a lovely song afterward.

Mantis Toboggan

Draw

Prime Tyson (aka 2015 Fury) wins this on points easily. Its whether or not he still has it. Of course Wilder has dynamite fists so if he connects its lights out. Fascinating watch.

StringerBell

Wilder Points

Fairly cringy stuff all round tbh, most annoying person is actually the moderater/host/presenter/whatever the **** that annoying fella is.

My simplistic take of the fight, Fury tries to avoid and box on the outside/spoil as much as he can. He will fail though, he won't manage to avoid Wilder. Wilder is too wild for want of a better word and I don't believe Fury has anything to back him up. At some point one of his ugly windmill punches will land and that will be all she wrote for Fury.

liamoreilly

Wilder Points

...Really good to see this fight happening, 2 out of the big 3 so it'll be an event for sure...I hope Fury hasn't taken this fight too soon, and that he has shaken off th4 cobwebs...
...Already been a few posts here and in the heavyweight thread saying 2015 Fury wins this easily...That may or may not be true, but it's the 2018 Fury that is fight the 2018 Wilder... If fury wins then it'll be a great result considering the last 3 years, but if as I expect Wilder wins, I hope there isn't any "2015 Fury would have beaten him tonight"...

walshb

Wilder Points

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Prime Tyson (aka 2015 Fury) wins this on points easily. Its whether or not he still has it. Of course Wilder has dynamite fists so if he connects its lights out. Fascinating watch.

What about 2015.....if Wilder connected then would it be lights out?

Just cannot get behind this take that Fury wins "easily".....

How does he win easily? Look at his career and who he has fought....

Even Wlad. Nothing easy there. Both dreadful and a dreadful display of boxing. Wlad being ridiculously cautious...

The way some talk about Fury you'd swear he was the greatest fighter that ever lived. Even in his prime he was caught, hurt and dropped by journeymen......made hard work of some of them

Yet he beats a 6 feet 7 inch KO artist easily...

walshb

Wilder Points

pac_man wrote: »

The poll is public so you should be able to see how people have voted. Can you see it now?

Yes, sorry. I didn't think to click on the figures in the poll

Thanks.

yourdeadwright

Draw

All depends how fit Fury is, I think Fury 2015 wins handy , Also a big issue for Fury may be his coach, Ben isn't in the same world as Peter,
Of course Wilder can KO him he can KO anyone but Fury is right Wilder has not fought anyone,
Ortiz is the only decent heavy weigh he has ever fought and he got put on his bum and struggled badly against a very old Ortiz,  I really rate Ortiz but he is just to old to keep up with the younger men late in fights,
Props to both men for taking the fight and its a hard one to call and really looking forward to it,

yourdeadwright

Draw

I can never understand anyone talking down Fury win v Wlad
He beat the very very best at the time who was unbeaten in 10 years in his own back yard, So what if he didn't do it in a style to please some people, He had a job to do an he done it,  Wlad was scared  stiff of him and Tyson won fairly handy in the end didn't one judge have it 116-111 job done others 115-112 ,That was in Germany no one came close to that before him ,
Also Wilder he has fought one live fight in  Ortiz and struggled .
In my opinion Fury has fought 3 guys at Ortiz Level or above Hammer, Chisora and Wlad and beat them all easy enough ,
I know Ortiz is more skilled than Hammer or Chisora but lets not forget Ortiz is about 50 years old so he tire's badly if you get him into the second part of a fight, So I think in terms of a fight difficulty he's level with them
I think props should be given to both men for taking the fight, its going to be very interesting,
My prediction is 65% Wilder KO or  35 % Fury on the cards , Wilder with the advantage as he still holds power late on so Fury will need to hurt him to take him the full 12 ,

yourdeadwright

Draw

pac_man wrote: »

Is Fury going to get a fair deal if this goes to the scorecards? Negative style, and non-american fighter, I think it's a uphill struggle.

I just can't accept that after two Mickey mouse warm ups and a trainer that's on work experience, that Tyson will be the same fighter from a few years ago. I don't rate Wilder but i'd have to go with him on this current version of Fury.

Yep this is a huge fight for Ben, It oculd make or break him as a real coach,
Just on Fury warm up they where pretty poor but Pianeta is the type of guy Wilder has fought 95 %  of the time in his pro fights

yourdeadwright

Draw

pac_man wrote: »

Is Fury going to get a fair deal if this goes to the scorecards? Negative style, and non-american fighter, I think it's a uphill struggle.

I just can't accept that after two Mickey mouse warm ups and a trainer that's on work experience, that Tyson will be the same fighter from a few years ago. I don't rate Wilder but i'd have to go with him on this current version of Fury.

Yep this is a huge fight for Ben, It oculd make or break him as a real coach,
Just on Fury warm up they where pretty poor but Pianeta is the type of guy Wilder has fought 95 %  of the time in his pro fights

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Yep this is a huge fight for Ben, It oculd make or break him as a real coach,
Just on Fury warm up they where pretty poor but Pianeta is the type of guy Wilder has fought 95 %  of the time in his pro fights

Yes, that is true, Fury's opposition has been very poor for most his career...

The point that is more specific is not so much who he is fighting, but how he is performing in the fights...

His last two showed a real lethargic and ponderous looking Fury. I have seen him far sharper.

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Yep this is a huge fight for Ben, It oculd make or break him as a real coach,
Just on Fury warm up they where pretty poor but Pianeta is the type of guy Wilder has fought 95 %  of the time in his pro fights

Yes, that is true, Fury's opposition has been very poor for most his career...

The point that is more specific is not so much who he is fighting, but how he is performing in the fights...

His last two showed a real lethargic and ponderous looking Fury. I have seen him far sharper.

100% Wilder deals with guys in a more devastating way , but Fury always  does enough to win and always has every time he has stepped up he does enough , He done it at every single level Irish, English , European , International and then World title, He so far has always found a way to win
Again obviously Wilder is fav with his one shot power but if Fury is anywhere near fit he can cause him trouble, Really looking forward to it ,

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

100% Wilder deals with guys in a more devastating way , but Fury always  does enough to win and always has every time he has stepped up he does enough , He done it at every single level Irish, English , European , International and then World title, He so far has always found a way to win
Again obviously Wilder is fav with his one shot power but if Fury is anywhere near fit he can cause him trouble, Really looking forward to it ,

Are you focusing on his 2015 and pre 2015 fights here?

What about now and very recently? You reckon he is near that shape and will be better in 8 weeks' time?

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

100% Wilder deals with guys in a more devastating way , but Fury always  does enough to win and always has every time he has stepped up he does enough , He done it at every single level Irish, English , European , International and then World title, He so far has always found a way to win
Again obviously Wilder is fav with his one shot power but if Fury is anywhere near fit he can cause him trouble, Really looking forward to it ,

Are you focusing on his 2015 and pre 2015 fights here?

What about now and very recently? You reckon he is near that shape and will be better in 8 weeks' time?

In todays shape he can cause Wilder problems,would it be better if he was in better shape Yes of course it would ,
Its quite strange cause today before camp starts Tyson is in better shape than the two guys who cost Wilder the most problems,
Ortiz is an out of shape  48 yearold and Stiverne is in horrible shape and 6'2 and went 12 rounds with him , I know he mashed him the second fight but Stiveren was diagnosed with rhabdomyolyses out of the ring for 2 years, It was just about the cash ,
With all that said you could be in the shape of your life and Wilder could KO  you in 1 round, so its a very interesting fight ,

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

In todays shape he can cause Wilder problems,would it be better if he was in better shape Yes of course it would ,
Its quite strange cause today before camp starts Tyson is in better shape than the two guys who cost Wilder the most problems,
Ortiz is an out of shape  48 yearold and Stiverne is in horrible shape and 6'2 and went 12 rounds with him , I know he mashed him the second fight but Stiveren was diagnosed with rhabdomyolyses out of the ring for 2 years, It was just about the cash ,
With all that said you could be in the shape of your life and Wilder could KO  you in 1 round, so its a very interesting fight ,

Good points.

What I am struggling to get my head around is how some think a points win will be somewhat easy....

I like to break down fighters. What does Fury need to do for a points win?

People seem to think it's as simple as throwing pissy jabs all night, as if Wilder is so bad that he simply cannot get past this, or even box with and be competitive with Fury from mid to long range...

yourdeadwright

Draw

My opinion if it goes 12 Fury wins , unless of course its a case of Fury being knocked down multiple times and surveying 12,
Fury is just a better boxer than Wilder, he understand range and movement ,basically does the lot better than Wilder ,
The one issues is Wilder can land at anytime and KO you ,

I also think Wilder strength is his weakness , the higher up he has gone in terms of quality of opponent the more patient he has got but he still waits to land the right hand , He will let a lot of rounds slip by just waiting to get the right hand off against top guys,

He got away with it v Ortiz because he does the same thing he waits for a big shot, Fury is a total different style than he is used to but again Wilder's power and the fact it lasts deep into fights means he can win in any round if you miss one step boom its over,

walshb

Wilder Points

We'll see, but as it stands nobody has ever outpointed him or been ahead on the cards with more than one judge in all his fights....

I am going to say that for no matter how long it goes you will absolutely not see Fury somehow clearly outpointing him...

Fury may be up on the cards, level on them or down, but he will not be clear..

Sweet.Science

Draw

Apparently Fury was made take this fight by MTK ( twitter )

Would make sense - he is nowhere near ready

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

We'll see, but as it stands nobody has ever outpointed him or been ahead on the cards with more than one judge in all his fights....

I am going to say that for no matter how long it goes you will absolutely not see Fury somehow clearly outpointing him...

Fury may be up on the cards, level on them or down, but he will not be clear..

That's no surprise, you wont find many unbeaten fighter's who have been behind on the cards,
Ortiz is the only decent fighter he ever fought ,he had just moved 1 round up on all cards when he ko'd him which is no surprise as Ortiz tired due to age,


I think if it goes to scorecards Fury wins but its a huge IF to get there with Wilder ,

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's no surprise, you wont find many unbeaten fighter's who have been behind on the cards,
Ortiz is the only decent fighter he ever fought ,he had just moved 1 round up on all cards when he ko'd him which is no surprise as Ortiz tired due to age,


I think if it goes to scorecards Fury wins but its a huge IF to get there with Wilder ,

I reckon if Fury manages to last 12 it's due to him hugging and spoiling his way there, and in doing so losing a clear decision...

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's no surprise, you wont find many unbeaten fighter's who have been behind on the cards,
Ortiz is the only decent fighter he ever fought ,he had just moved 1 round up on all cards when he ko'd him which is no surprise as Ortiz tired due to age,


I think if it goes to scorecards Fury wins but its a huge IF to get there with Wilder ,

I reckon if Fury manages to last 12 it's due to him hugging and spoiling his way there, and in doing so losing a clear decision...

Possible if Wilder hurts him ,

walshb

Wilder Points

Fury on Instagram breaking down how he beats Wilder, the swinging bum.....

Jab and jab for several rds, then the overhand right and then tires Wilder in the late rds...

fonecrusher1

Draw

Not sure why Fury is talking about knocking Wilder 'spark out'. In my head I can see Wilder knocking him out. Fury doesn't really knock out his opponents, he wears them down over several rounds. Also Fury talking a lot about Wilder beating a load of bums. Fury has beaten his fair share of them as well. Excluding klitschko. At the same time the first decent opposition Wilder stepped up against ie; Ortiz he nearly lost.

Fury on points.

FTA69

Draw

Ha ha of course he's going to talk about "knocking him spark out". He's hyping the fight and keeping with his persona, he's not going to put out a video saying "I'm going to jab and spoil and run away and clinch him for a boring decision" in fairness.

Mookie Blaylock

Wilder Points

Fury 2015 would lose this fight... Fury 2018 gets absolutely hammered..... think we shall be seeing a shoulder injury in the next 5 weeks to see this fight postponed

Littlehorny

Wilder Points

The vote at the moment is 19 to 18 in Wilder's favour but all 19 votes are for a ko (I voted this way myself).
Surely if Wilder is following Fury around the ring all night and being the aggressor he will get the American judges decision ?
As I said I voted for a KO but surprised a few haven't gone for Wilder on points.

walshb

Wilder Points

I think Wilder wins any way.....Fury will unlikely survive, but if he does he will lose a clear decision.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

Littlehorny wrote: »

The vote at the moment is 19 to 18 in Wilder's favour but all 19 votes are for a ko (I voted this way myself).
Surely if Wilder is following Fury around the ring all night and being the aggressor he will get the American judges decision ?
As I said I voted for a KO but surprised a few haven't gone for Wilder on points.

I think most are predicting how they see the fight itself playing out more than how the judges may see it. People said Fury wouldn't get it on the cards against Wlad in Germany too tbf.

We've seen Wilder have great difficulty figuring out southpaws like Szpilka and Ortiz before. I think as long as Fury doesn't get dropped/buzzed he's very likely to sweep the early rounds. He'll be switching in and out of southpaw making Wilder tentative, confused and gun-shy. This is a fight that more than likely catches fire late when Wilder starts to get more comfortable in there/he's forced to get more aggressive.

Littlehorny

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

I think most are predicting how they see the fight itself playing out more than how the judges may see it. People said Fury wouldn't get it on the cards against Wlad in Germany too tbf.

We've seen Wilder have great difficulty figuring out southpaws like Szpilka and Ortiz before. I think as long as Fury doesn't get dropped/buzzed he's very likely to sweep the early rounds. He'll be switching in and out of southpaw making Wilder tentative, confused and gun-shy. This is a fight that more than likely catches fire late when Wilder starts to get more comfortable in there/he's forced to get more aggressive.

Yeah, I just don't see Wilder being as tentative as Klitcshko was and Fury doesn't hit that hard to make Wilder nervous either.
Also, big question over Fury's fitness, can he move that big frame around enough for 12 rounds?

Morrison J

Wilder Points

Littlehorny wrote: »

Yeah, I just don't see Wilder being as tentative as Klitcshko was and Fury doesn't hit that hard to make Wilder nervous either.
Also, big question over Fury's fitness, can he move that big frame around enough for 12 rounds?

Wilder to me fights like a guy who doesn't have much faith in his chin. Very upright and tentative. I'd be surprised if he starts the fight aggressive tbh. Ortiz had him very hesitant through the use of feints and the left hand counter. Wilder hardly threw a jab in that fight he was so worried about what would come back. Had Ortiz sweeping the first four rounds personally until Wilder landed a straight shot in the 5th and things flipped.

I do think Wilder will take the risk that Wlad couldn't though and throw caution to the wind late knowing he's behind on the cards. Could be a classic finish to this I think especially if Fury is tired which he more than likely will be given its only his 3rd fight back.

This is a great fight. Big question marks over both for different reasons. Really looking forward to it.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

I do think Wilder will take the risk that Wlad couldn't though and throw caution to the wind late knowing he's behind on the cards.

I don't think Wilder will wait that long.

If we get rds here, expect them to be scrappy and awkward and very difficult to score as regards clean punching.