Galway 2020 European Capital of Culture

ChewyLouie

Saw a great suggestion on Facebook that the local volunteers that were to be part of the opening ceremony (lots of drummers etc) could form part of the St Patrick's Day parade. They'd get to showcase the practice and preparation they had put in over the last few months.

pure.conya

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Hope she stays true to her word this time round

lol

Greaney

JohnCleary wrote: »

I can imagine it went something along the lines of....

2020: "Give us more money"

Council: "What did you do with the money you have already received?"

2020: "*pause* .... Give us more money"

I wouldn't be suprised if the 2020's answer is... Insurance.

My community arts group are doing a project in the county for 2020. We had an insurance policy that was managable (€452per year), then to develop our legacy (more members, a drum troupe) our small group of about 20 grew to 45, and we had to change policy and provider. The next quote we got was €4198!! I nearly fainted.

Now here's the thing, we're not alone. The Community Circus have found they now are almost un-insurable, in Ireland. The disparity of insurance between Ireland & Europe is breath taking. We're talking x10 times more. So if you can imagine, the insurance for an average event in Ireland of >1k people is over €600!! What must the insurance alone have been for the opening ceremoney (>50k people??). The insurance has gone nuts in the last 4 years and I wouldn't be surprised if Galway2020's insurance bill alone is €500k+

ingalway

ChewyLouie wrote: »

Saw a great suggestion on Facebook that the local volunteers that were to be part of the opening ceremony (lots of drummers etc) could form part of the St Patrick's Day parade. They'd get to showcase the practice and preparation they had put in over the last few months.

How many more drummers do we actually need? Every event now is dominated/drowned out by drumming. It puts me off going.

Greaney

ingalway wrote: »

How many more drummers do we actually need? Every event now is dominated/drowned out by drumming. It puts me off going.

Not all the St. Patricks Day Parades are in Galway City. From my experience, the suggestion was made by some of the small town groups about their own parades.

If you're aware of what goes on in the county parades.... Smaller parades often only have one band.... a few satirical floats and then about 50 tractors. A drum troupe would be a nice shot of energy half way through a parade.

flazio

Looks like the organisers were right after all to cancel outright instead of reschedule. Every weekend this month has had miserable weather.

pure.conya

flazio wrote: »

Looks like the organisers were right after all to cancel outright instead of reschedule. Every weekend this month has had miserable weather.

their last minute decision after spending a fortune trying to turn a swamp into a spectacular looking festival site and making a huge deal locally, nationally and internationally about an outdoor launch that was always going to be 50/50 if it could actually go ahead on the west coast of Europe at this time of the year, its not to be commended, its a bit of a joke actually, if the experienced organisers had any sense they'd have had a soft launch indoors at the time, used the likes of Bailey Allen Hall, with a limited amount of tickets allocated through a competition or something to that effect and then used St Patricks day to have the bigger more inclusive launch when the city is thronged with people anyway, what a sight all of that wound have been

Greaney

pure.conya wrote: »

their last minute decision after spending a fortune trying to turn a swamp into a spectacular looking festival site and making a huge deal locally, nationally and internationally about an outdoor launch that was always going to be 50/50 if it could actually go ahead on the west coast of Europe at this time of the year, its not to be commended, its a bit of a joke actually, if the experienced organisers had any sense they'd have had a soft launch indoors at the time, used the likes of Bailey Allen Hall, with a limited amount of tickets allocated through a competition or something to that effect and then used St Patricks day to have the bigger more inclusive launch when the city is thronged with people anyway, what a sight all of that wound have been

1) It's easy to be the hurler on the ditch, if you've ever had to organise a large event, it's a nerve wracking gamble in Ireland, no matter if you've plan 'b' or 'c'.
2) The origional plan had a capacity for a 50k audience, that's pretty inclusive.
3) It's an opening ceremony, it happens before the event, a month of storms is highly unusual.
4) There was a small formal launch for the delegates and sponsors. If they were around the night before, they were bused to Athenry as a plan 'b'. Actually, a lot of folk came to Athenry from the city as they thought it (the main show) might be cancelled.
5) The volunteers 'afters' still went ahead
6) 2020 may be ahead of you on the 'Paddy's Day' participation idea, however, if you read a few threads ahead of your post you'll see that some folk think its a bad idea to have the 2020 drummers etc. in the Parade.... so you just can't please everyone. There'll always be someone on boards who knows better:rolleyes:

And finally.... The Corona Virus. We've cancelled/postponed Paddys Day before (Foot and Mouth). The Dublin Parade didn't go ahead until May that year.

I was the organiser for the Seachtain na Gaeilge lauch in Galway that year, we had the Navy involved 'n all . I was heartbroken to cancel. Caterers going crazy over getting cancelled, but there was nothing we could do...

pure.conya

Greaney wrote: »

1) It's easy to be the hurler on the ditch, if you've ever had to organise a large event, it's a nerve wracking gamble in Ireland, no matter if you've plan 'b' or 'c'.
2) The origional plan had a capacity for a 50k audience, that's pretty inclusive.
3) It's an opening ceremony, it happens before the event, a month of storms is highly unusual.
4) There was a small formal launch for the delegates and sponsors. If they were around the night before, they were bused to Athenry as a plan 'b'. Actually, a lot of folk came to Athenry from the city as they thought it (the main show) might be cancelled.
5) The volunteers 'afters' still went ahead
6) 2020 may be ahead of you on the 'Paddy's Day' participation idea, however, if you read a few threads ahead of your post you'll see that some folk think its a bad idea to have the 2020 drummers etc. in the Parade.... so you just can't please everyone. There'll always be someone on boards who knows better:rolleyes:

And finally.... The Corona Virus. We've cancelled/postponed Paddys Day before (Foot and Mouth). The Dublin Parade didn't go ahead until May that year.

I was the organiser for the Seachtain na Gaeilge lauch in Galway that year, we had the Navy involved 'n all . I was heartbroken to cancel. Caterers going crazy over getting cancelled, but there was nothing we could do...

1.there are experienced event organisers working on the 2020 project, organising an event at the end of aug/early sept is a bit of a gamble, organising one in Galway City outside, on the swamp, in Feb is nuts.

2. capacity for 50k, down at the swamp in Feb lol

pure.conya

pure.conya wrote: »

1.there are experienced event organisers working on the 2020 project, organising an event at the end of aug/early sept is a bit of a gamble, organising one in Galway City outside, on the swamp, in Feb is nuts.

2. capacity for 50k, down at the swamp in Feb lol

The 6 days before the planned event were beautiful weather, blue skies and hardly any wind.

Plenty of large-scale events happen around the country all year round, weather is weather, sometimes you're blessed, sometimes you're very unlucky, most of the time it has no bearing.

As for the location, there's no doubt in my mind that had it been held at another location (doesn't matter which one) you would have found another way to bitch about the chosen venue e.g. Access, cost, facilities etc

Storm 10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The 6 days before the planned event were beautiful weather, blue skies and hardly any wind.

Plenty of large-scale events happen around the country all year round, weather is weather, sometimes you're blessed, sometimes you're very unlucky, most of the time it has no bearing.

As for the location, there's no doubt in my mind that had it been held at another location (doesn't matter which one) you would have found another way to bitch about the chosen venue e.g. Access, cost, facilities etc

The weather for the week ahead on Met Eireann showed Saturday was going to be wet and windy they should have pulled the plug then it would not cost as much as they had only started putting it together. The decision to hold it in the swamp was crazy especially in February I don't know what they were thinking when the decided to hold it there.

Storm 10

Storm 10 wrote: »

they should have pulled the plug then it would not cost as much as they had only started putting it together.

Your lack of understanding of event management is showing

Discodog

This was what I found strange. It was one of the most predicted storms. It was as if the organisers thought the forecast was unreliable. It was press on regardless despite the forecast confidence getting higher & higher.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

Your lack of understanding of event management is showing

There is absolutely no question that the cost could of been significantly reduced.

Mrs OBumble

Discodog wrote: »

There is absolutely no question that the cost could of been significantly reduced.

How, exactly, could the cost have been reduced?

Discodog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How, exactly, could the cost have been reduced?

All construction stopped, hire items returned, labour stood down etc

Storm 10

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How, exactly, could the cost have been reduced?

They could have given it to Macnas not a UK based company who organised the London Olympics which I'm sure cost a small fortune

Greaney

pure.conya wrote: »

1.there are experienced event organisers working on the 2020 project, organising an event at the end of aug/early sept is a bit of a gamble, organising one in Galway City outside, on the swamp, in Feb is nuts.

2. capacity for 50k, down at the swamp in Feb lol

Even experienced event organisers get scuppered by the weather. I'm an experienced event organiser and I've been washed out in June and had perfect weather in December. Jan/ Feb were the months it had to happen. The county was blessed, and if Galways ceremony had been the night before (Friday), we wouldn't be having this conversaton.

Da Cor is right.... the costings of the event are not 'The Night' they start happening over 6 months in advance. The commissioned scuptures, the commisioned music, the instruments, non refundable deposits on equipment hire etc. The Storm wasn't predicted strictly for Saturday we thought it would land much earlier in the week, scuppering Portumna & Athenry, but the good weather lingered a few days longer than anticipated.

Finally, every year we have St. Patricks Day on the 17th of March, and it's the only outdoor event I know that civilians don't blame the organisers for the weather... you just get on with it hail rain or shine, and if it shines, you say.... 'Janey, we were lucky with the weather'...

And that's what most of life is about ... Luck

Discodog

Greaney wrote: »

Even experienced event organisers get scuppered by the weather. I'm an experienced event organiser and I've been washed out in June and had perfect weather in December. Jan/ Feb were the months it had to happen. The county was blessed, and if Galways ceremony had been the night before (Friday), we wouldn't be having this conversaton.

There was about one weeks notice of this storm. Why didn't the organisers listen ? Why keep building towers etc ?

Greaney

Storm 10 wrote: »

They could have given it to Macnas not a UK based company who organised the London Olympics which I'm sure cost a small fortune

A Couple of things
1) Why do you think Macnas are Cheaper?? Why are a UK company more expensive? If you think it's the wages, well, a huge amount of the sub-contracting was Irish and our wages are more than the UK. Remember, the Arts Festival Parade doesn't happen anymore because the costs got so high to put it on, and the Festival wouldn't pay Macnas what they needed.

2) Macnas have thier own huge project for 2020 to do. ( Gilgamesh)

3) The bid happened before Brexit (2016), almost all of the large projects in European capital of Culture are expected to have European 'partners' aka artists etc. That fulfills some of the criteria. I imagine it was a UK company as opposed to a French one because there's less of a language barrier.

''Bids from five United Kingdom cities to be the 2023 Capital of Culture were disqualified in November 2017, because by 2023 it is expected that the UK will no longer be an EU member.''

4) I'm just going to throw this in the mix... INSURANCE!!!. Presently, Galway Community Circus project 'Wires Crossed', can't get insurance for the key 'event' in their project, so only the European participants can walk the wire across the river in August. No one Irish, unless they're based abroad with their own insurance. Just to explain, even if one is doing a 2020 project, one has to have their own insurance as well :rolleyes:

Yes, it sucks! Our insurance doubled this year, it must be over x3 times more than our European counterpart, if not x5 times!!

Greaney

Discodog wrote: »

There was about one weeks notice of this storm. Why didn't the organisers listen ? Why keep building towers etc ?

Don't worry, they were listening, praying, watching & waiting. It was all we talked about in rehearsals. As I explained in that answer, the storm could have been late landing so they had to be ready to 'go' if it was clear, and if it had come early, to 'go' immediatly after. Remember, the council were happy for it to go ahead a day late if it cleared up. We had thought they were willing to postpone until Tuesday but that was taken 'off the table' about two days beforehand so it was a moving target.

There's a whole issue about event licencing and local Authorities I could go into but to give you an idea, if any of ye have ever done a licenced bucket/churchgate collection you know, you need a licence. You get a date from the Gardaí. It doesn't move, you usually have the same one every year. You cannot choose to move it because of weather, or any other reason, it's in stone.

Discodog

Greaney wrote: »

Don't worry, they were listening, praying, watching & waiting. It was all we talked about in rehearsals. As I explained in that answer, the storm could have been late landing so they had to be ready to 'go' if it was clear, and if it had come early, to 'go' immediatly after. Remember, the council were happy for it to go ahead a day late if it cleared up. We had thought they were willing to postpone until Tuesday but that was taken 'off the table' about two days beforehand so it was a moving target.

There's a whole issue about event licencing and local Authorities I could go into but to give you an idea, if any of ye have ever done a licenced bucket/churchgate collection you know, you need a licence. You get a date from the Gardaí. It doesn't move, you usually have the same one every year. You cannot choose to move it because of weather, or any other reason, it's in stone.

Licensing clearly needs to be flexible for some events. There was never really a chance of the Storm landing late. It was a huge system that was going to last for two or more days. I totally accept that it's a difficult situation & I have been involved in big outdoor events - I used to do firework displays in the UK.

Mrs OBumble

Discodog wrote: »

All construction stopped, hire items returned, labour stood down etc

So it's OK to book workers, and then just feck them out unpaid at the last minute if you don't need them. And hire companies will give you money back if you return stuff earlier than planned.

Yeah, right. Great way to build relationships with arts and arts-support professionals. :rolleyes:


The sour taste in lots of mouths over being unpaid after the VOR 2012 is part of the reason it's been so hard to get Galway 2020 established: no one's gonna work on credit again. Doing a same-again-sam would have been a very dumb thing to do.

Greaney

Discodog wrote: »

Licensing clearly needs to be flexible for some events. There was never really a chance of the Storm landing late. It was a huge system that was going to last for two or more days. I totally accept that it's a difficult situation & I have been involved in big outdoor events - I used to do firework displays in the UK.

At first I had heard our option 'b' to be Tuesday but City Council said 'no' and said they could only do 'Sunday' and it had to be called that (Sunday) morning so that limited options. 2020 was a City Council Call on dates.. although, I also head last minuet that the Gardaí siad they'd refused to steward it Saturday morning, but I'm two degrees removed from the source so... And they are the ones who've got the last say. If the Guards don't steward, I think you can't go ahead, 'insurance' 'n all that.

Yeah. I have used Galway Co. Co. Small Event Licence. It's tricky. They're not very flexible and I nearly got scuppered over two flippen illegally parked cars once. Another time, a food festival I was involved in, after we'd submitted our plans for the fire officer, he waltzes in the morning of the festival, it's started, it's running (lovely weather, small mercies) and decides he wants to shut it down because the main marquee doesnt' have a British Kite marke (it was European fire compliant but he decided the British Kite Mark was what he was going with!!! :eek:) We sold the marquee to the Heritage Centre who used it a few months later at a Co. Co. event. The fire officer didn't have a problem with it then :rolleyes:

So yeah, you never know what'll knock you out.

Discodog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So it's OK to book workers, and then just feck them out unpaid at the last minute if you don't need them. And hire companies will give you money back if you return stuff earlier than planned.

Yeah, right. Great way to build relationships with arts and arts-support professionals. :rolleyes:


The sour taste in lots of mouths over being unpaid after the VOR 2012 is part of the reason it's been so hard to get Galway 2020 established: no one's gonna work on credit again. Doing a same-again-sam would have been a very dumb thing to do.

You build the contingency into the plan. There always has to be a plan B & plan C. What were they ? The costs should always be part of the event insurance & there I suspect is the problem as it's insanely expensive here.

At the end of the day we have all paid a lot, there will be an ongoing legacy from 2020 just like with the Volvo.

Discodog

Greaney wrote: »

At first I had heard our option 'b' to be Tuesday but City Council said 'no' and said they could only do 'Sunday' and it had to be called that (Sunday) morning so that limited options. 2020 was a City Council Call on dates.. although, I also head last minuet that the Gardaí siad they'd refused to steward it Saturday morning, but I'm two degrees removed from the source so... And they are the ones who've got the last say. If the Guards don't steward, I think you can't go ahead, 'insurance' 'n all that.

Yeah. I have used Galway Co. Co. Small Event Licence. It's tricky. They're not very flexible and I nearly got scuppered over two flippen illegally parked cars once. Another time, a food festival I was involved in, after we'd submitted our plans for the fire officer, he waltzes in the morning of the festival, it's started, it's running (lovely weather, small mercies) and decides he wants to shut it down because the main marquee doesnt' have a British Kite marke (it was European fire compliant but he decided the British Kite Mark was what he was going with!!! :eek:) We sold the marquee to the Heritage Centre who used it a few months later at a Co. Co. event. The fire officer didn't have a problem with it then :rolleyes:

So yeah, you never know what'll knock you out.

Oh I have been there. The H&S requirements for firework displays are significant which is why I was doubtful about South Park. You have to have a large safety cordon downwind of the event, so that shells that fail to explode don't land on people, houses etc. I would guess that the wind limit for this event was pretty low especially as it's likely to be from the SW.

I love these events & hope we have more of them. And yes Fire Officers can be a nightmare. I was involved with the Jean Michel Jarre London Docklands concerts. The H&S assessment was over 300 pages. The Chief Fire Officer went nuts when he saw the plans & this continued right up to the first concert where he threatened to pull the plug only 6 hours before the start.

You mentioned drumming in the rain. The numerous videos show the rain bouncing off drums & drum pads as it rained on both nights on London. God knows how the electrics survived.

Muahahaha

Storm 10 wrote: »

The weather for the week ahead on Met Eireann showed Saturday was going to be wet and windy they should have pulled the plug then it would not cost as much as they had only started putting it together. The decision to hold it in the swamp was crazy especially in February I don't know what they were thinking when the decided to hold it there.

The way Id see it is to evaluate what the opening ceremony was costing the budget, Id imagine it was somewhere north of half a million. Then assess are you really willing to lose that kind money on the 50/50 flip of a coin hoping that the weather would play ball.

You've also got to factor into account that a large fireworks display was planned. Fireworks cost big money, its not hard to spend 200k on a 5 minute display, Sydney spends $6m on theirs annually. Problem with fireworks is you need the wind to be at a very low level to ignite them safely, I think someone mentioned wind speeds of no more than 20kph. A meteorologist could work out the chances of the wind being under 20kph on the Atlantic coast in February. Whatever it is Id say it is no better than a 50/50 punt.

Overall it is bad luck with the weather. But you have to question the risk that they chose in trying to hold an outdoor event in winter on the west coast. It was always going to be a risk and when it doesnt pay off they're hundreds of thousands of euro down with still no event happening anyway.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but there was no risk at all in an opening ceremony that instead commandeered about 30 hotel function rooms and large pubs and had 20-30 bands/acts/performances rotating between them doing a 10-15 minute set in each one before moving to the next. Could have done a mini parade down Shop St as well. It wouldnt have all been in the same place but it could have given 20 or 25,000 people a really good nights entertainment without the worry of the weather getting the entire thing cancelled with big financial losses.

Discodog

I would of guesstimated the Firework wind limit as no more than 10 knots. A 10 inch shell will reach around 1000 feet. You would need to fire at quite an angle towards the sea to ensure that they don't drift into the crowd line.

Greaney

Discodog wrote: »

Oh I have been there. The H&S requirements for firework displays are significant which is why I was doubtful about South Park. You have to have a large safety cordon downwind of the event, so that shells that fail to explode don't land on people, houses etc. I would guess that the wind limit for this event was pretty low especially as it's likely to be from the SW.

I love these events & hope we have more of them. And yes Fire Officers can be a nightmare. I was involved with the Jean Michel Jarre London Docklands concerts. The H&S assessment was over 300 pages. The Chief Fire Officer went nuts when he saw the plans & this continued right up to the first concert where he threatened to pull the plug only 6 hours before the start.

You mentioned drumming in the rain. The numerous videos show the rain bouncing off drums & drum pads as it rained on both nights on London. God knows how the electrics survived.

South Park has long been the location of firework displays in Galway. (Indeed, the last Arts Festival one I attended was there, over 15 years ago... in the rain;)) The main Pyrotechnical element however was not fireworks, it was to 'fly' on the wires between the two towers.

There might be a number of reasons for this, water (safety re; fireworks??), city centre, Galway Bay (as an iconic feature). The 'Artistic Reasons' were...
The theme of the year was Making Waves, that was submitted in the bid book in 2016
The Sea is an element of the peice, there were to be boats in the bay and fires lit in Clare, in the tradition of the Irish lighting fires to welcome people (& boats home) etc.

We were more than willing to do the whole lot in the rain. Indeed, the costumes were designed for it. So it wasn't the average Galway weather that scuppered it, but the storm, indeed, the whole month has proved exceptional weather wise.

I had two workshops and a party cancelled yesterday

pure.conya

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The 6 days before the planned event were beautiful weather, blue skies and hardly any wind.

Plenty of large-scale events happen around the country all year round, weather is weather, sometimes you're blessed, sometimes you're very unlucky, most of the time it has no bearing.

As for the location, there's no doubt in my mind that had it been held at another location (doesn't matter which one) you would have found another way to bitch about the chosen venue e.g. Access, cost, facilities etc

it doesn't matter a jot what the weather was like 6 days before any particular date here between mid Aug to May

as for the location, i suggested they should have opted for a soft indoor launch and saved the publics money for a larger showcase Paddys weekend where theres a slight chance of better weather, Feb should have been a no no though