Should Dublin ban Burqas and Hijabs?

One eyed Jack

timthumbni wrote: »

I admit that women in western society still face adversity in certain aspects. However in comparison to Islamic countries you are really taking the piss.

I’m genuinely not though.

The point is that they are two different societies, each function in very different ways, and in just the same way as there are circumstances where women in the West imagine they are second class citizens and there are men who imagine that they too, are second class citizens. Muslim societies really aren’t actually all that different - some women regard themselves as second class citizens, some men do too, but for the vast majority of people people living in either society it’s their way of life and it’s the way their society functions, and they’re generally content to live in their respective societies.

Mr. teddywinkles

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Next time you see a woman in a bank wearing a niqab you should say it to her :rolleyes:

No he shouldn't say it. Bank staff should

RustyNut

Hitman3000 wrote: »

RustyNut wrote:

But not illegal, no law?

Whatabout respecting local custom. As the saying goes when in Rome... Simple solution if you don't like the ideals or behaviours of a society probably best not to move there.

The local custom that says people can wear what they like?

One eyed Jack

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

No he shouldn't say it. Bank staff should

My point was that he is just as likely to see a woman wearing a niqab in a bank as he is to see a person wearing a helmet - highly unlikely.

sabat

I assume the reasoning behind them was originally to do with living in a climate with 45c heat every day of the year rather than oppression of women per se, and that like the rules regarding pork etc, what was just practical advice became intertwined with dogma. I know a Saudi woman in her late 20s who literally never takes it (hijab here, niqab over there) off outside her bedroom and suffers from alopecia as a result.
As for it deterring male attention, as any straight man who's been to the middle east will tell you, you just start imagining what they look like underneath, admiring the shape of their arses etc.

K.Flyer

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Next time you see a woman in a bank wearing a niqab you should say it to her :rolleyes:

Its not my job to "say it to her" but if I was on a motorcycle and was told to remove my hemet, as I have been told to do many a time, and there was someone else in the same part of the building wearing a full facial covering, such as a Niqab or a Bhurka, I would have no problem pointing it out and claim that I was being discriminated against.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

My point was that he is just as likely to see a woman wearing a niqab in a bank as he is to see a person wearing a helmet - highly unlikely.

Errm, You won't see motorcyclists wearing helmets in banks or public buildings etc because there are signs up saying helmets must be removed before entry :rolleyes:. It was a policy first introduced by banks in around the early to mid 90s

RustyNut

deco nate wrote: »

Point out to me were I said it was illegal? Keep up muppet, I said points of sales were they are not accepted.
Keep back tracking

Here you go sir.

deco nate wrote: »

If a person cannot wear a motorbike helmet in a place for security reasons.
Then no one else should be allowed to float that law either.
Plain and simple.

One eyed Jack

K.Flyer wrote: »

Its not my job to "say it to her" but if I was on a motorcycle and was told to remove my hemet, as I have been told to do many a time, and there was someone else in the same part of the building wearing a full facial covering, such as a Niqab or a Bhurka, I would have no problem pointing it out and claim that I was being discriminated against.

Has it ever actually happened that you’ve been in a place where you were expected to remove your helmet and there was a woman there wearing a niqab?

It’s as though you almost wish it would happen so you could point out you’re being discriminated against.

K.Flyer

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Has it ever actually happened that you’ve been in a place where you were expected to remove your helmet and there was a woman there wearing a niqab?

It’s as though you almost wish it would happen so you could point out you’re being discriminated against.

Did you actually read what I wrote?

Hitman3000

RustyNut wrote:

The local custom that says people can wear what they like?

Wearing a hijab or nijab are not local custom to western countries. You miss the banning of these in several EU countries?

Mr. teddywinkles

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Has it ever actually happened that you’ve been in a place where you were expected to remove your helmet and there was a woman there wearing a niqab?

It’s as though you almost wish it would happen so you could point out you’re being discriminated against.

I've asked the question. Would you interact with the rest of the population day to day through a helmet. Answer please. pussy footing around all the time. Integration my bollix. Look me square in the face when I converse with anyone otherwise piss off. And don't make me laugh your inviting discrimination carrying on like that. Maybe I'm one of those new music producers like marshmallow. Then maybe I'd get away with it

One eyed Jack

K.Flyer wrote: »

Did you actually read what I wrote?

I did, and that’s why I asked have you ever been in that situation before, because if you had, at least then there would be some rational basis for your point.

deco nate

RustyNut wrote: »

Here you go sir.

Ok, I should have said the rules of the business. Better, pedantic Pete

One eyed Jack

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

I've asked the question. Would you interact with the rest of the population day to day through a helmet. Answer please. pussy footing around all the time. Integration my bollix. Look me square in the face when I converse with anyone otherwise piss off. And don't make me laugh your inviting discrimination carrying on like that.

Would I personally do it? No, of course not. Would I have an issue with someone else trying to talk to me through a helmet? It’s never happened but the chances are I wouldn’t be able to make out what they’re saying so it wouldn’t be much of a conversation. I’ve also never conversed with a woman wearing a niqab, I’ve seen plenty, but we don’t hang around in the same social circles and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. They’re not inviting any sort of discrimination, just going about their business as I am. They don’t appear to want to converse with me and even the women who wear the hijab aren’t in any way threatening, the most they’ll say is thanks when I hold a gate open for them.

My sister on the other hand I’m lucky I only have to see her every couple of years when she comes over from the UK, wear the ears off a small elephant, and I’d be lying if I said the thought hadn’t occurred to me that the hijab she chooses to wear, could make a handy muzzle

zapitastas

What someone chooses to wear should be none of your concern.

K.Flyer

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I did, and that’s why I asked have you ever been in that situation before, because if you had, at least then there would be some rational basis for your point.

The situation I have been in many times is that if I am wearing a motorcycle helmet I will be told to take it off for security reasons, even an open face hemet !!??!!
This policy was introduced by banks etc back in the mid 90s, I remember it well.
It was for security reasons, so that they could clearly see your face.
And I still find it a nuisance having to remove a helmet even to run in for a few minutes, just to make a lodgement. (Albeit easier in some places with external atms.)
So, to answer you question in two parts..
Has it happened to me yet that I have been told to remove a helmet at the same time as someone with a face covering was there?
Answer: Not Yet.
If it happened that I was asked to remove a helmet, but someone else was allowed to be there with a full face covering, would I have something to say about it?
Answer: Yes I would. Why should I have to show my face for security reasons and someone else doesn't have to?

One eyed Jack

K.Flyer wrote: »

The situation I have been in many times is that if I am wearing a motorcycle helmet I will be told to take it off for security reasons, even an open face hemet !!??!!
This policy was introduced by banks etc back in the mid 90s, I remember it well.
It was for security reasons, so that they could clearly see your face.
And I still find it a nuisance having to remove a helmet even to run in for a few minutes, just to make a lodgement. (Albeit easier in some places with external atms.)
So, to answer you question in two parts..
Has it happened to me yet that I have been told to remove a helmet at the same time as someone with a face covering was there?
Answer: Not Yet.
If it happened that I was asked to remove a helmet, but someone else was allowed to be there with a full face covering, would I have something to say about it?
Answer: Yes I would. Why should I have to show my face for security reasons and someone else doesn't have to?

You’re waaaay over-thinking this. The question only had one part - had you ever been in the situation where there was a woman wearing a niquab and you were asked to remove your helmet? You haven’t, and so you haven’t been discriminated against. My point isn’t about the likelihood of you being asked to remove your helmet. I’m making the point that you’re unlikely to see a woman wearing a niqab entering a place where she would be expected to remove her niqab.

bigpink

No problem people coming here but they have to respect our culture customs and laws

K.Flyer

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re waaaay over-thinking this. The question only had one part - had you ever been in the situation where there was a woman wearing a niquab and you were asked to remove your helmet? You haven’t, and so you haven’t been discriminated against. My point isn’t about the likelihood of you being asked to remove your helmet. I’m making the point that you’re unlikely to see a woman wearing a niqab entering a place where she would be expected to remove her niqab.

For the final time, I never said I Was discriminated against, Go Read The Posts again, because you are obviously not reading them correctly.

One eyed Jack

K.Flyer wrote: »

For the final time, I never said I Was discriminated against, Go Read The Posts again, because you are obviously not reading them correctly.

For the final time then - your point is simply nonsense. It hasn’t happened, it won’t happen, so you can relax. There’s no need to be getting your knickers in a bunch as though you’re going to be the victim of discrimination.

Irish Guitarist

I think they're sexy.

Tokyo

I'm not sure how a law forbidding the burka/niqab/hijab is any less oppressive than requiring them.

In the end it comes down to mixing culture, religion and oppression into this one homogenous lump. While I agree that religion (of all flavours) has certainly been manipulated as a tool of oppression, that's not always the case, and plenty of Muslim women do wear the hijab/niqab as a personal choice to express their faith, rather than being forced into doing so - whether you agree with their personal beliefs is an entirely different matter. And for what it's worth, there are plenty of environments where Muslim women are asked to remove them for security purposes and do so willingly - airports and banks in many parts of the world are just two examples.

I would imagine that if you are being forced into wearing something as a control mechanism, the problem is not the hijab, the problem is being married to someone who is possessive and oppressive.

steve-collins

steve-collins wrote: »

You cant walk around with a bally on

Lol, do you think balaclavas are illegal ?
Thankfully there are no such laws in Ireland, dictating what people can & cannot wear.

bobbyss

deco nate wrote:

Ok, I should have said the rules of the business. Better, pedantic Pete

Pedantic?
It's a pity you called someone a muppet for simply asking a straightforward and simple question. Not the poster's fault that you didn't grasp it.

Sardine

Who cares if a few women are going around wearing these things? I wager no one cares, they just want an excuse to vent at Muslims. I've lived most of my life in Dublin and I'm not even sure if I've ever spoken to a Muslim here.
Honestly have you nothing else to worry about?

Graces7

bigpink wrote: »

No problem people coming here but they have to respect our culture customs and laws

why? And what culture please are you referring to? and respect does not mean adopting especially in this situation/

thinkin g re "interaction"' ; in towns most people walk about with eyes down. There is no interaction.

Zebra3

Still curious as to how Dublin is meant to ban burqas.

OP?

FTA69

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m genuinely not though.

The point is that they are two different societies, each function in very different ways, and in just the same way as there are circumstances where women in the West imagine they are second class citizens and there are men who imagine that they too, are second class citizens. Muslim societies really aren’t actually all that different - some women regard themselves as second class citizens, some men do too, but for the vast majority of people people living in either society it’s their way of life and it’s the way their society functions, and they’re generally content to live in their respective societies.

Sorry I disagree with you here in a big way.

You're right of course that sexism isn't solely an Islamic concept and that women in all countries face hurdles and systemic barriers. No argument there. But if you're suggesting that those hurdles and oppressions are as explicit and severe in somewhere like Germany as they are in Morocco or Bangladesh then you're codding yourself.

In Iran, a tremendously complex place, while women are the majority in the professions ad university - they're legally obliged to wear a hijab. Women are being jailed today for heavy sentences for removing it as an act of protest. When I was on the plane out of Tehran the first thing the women did was pull off their hijabs.

In many Islamic countries the official role of women is as of wives and mothers of the nation, pigeonholed into a category due to their gender. I think feminism has huge validity the world over, but I also think this liberal tendency to try and equivocate the position of women in some Islamic societies with people here is just lunacy.

Pinch Flat

Sardine wrote: »

Who cares if a few women are going around wearing these things? I wager no one cares, they just want an excuse to vent at Muslims. I've lived most of my life in Dublin and I'm not even sure if I've ever spoken to a Muslim here.
Honestly have you nothing else to worry about?

Xenophobic incels seem to get wound up by them

cournioni

Sardine wrote: »

Who cares if a few women are going around wearing these things? I wager no one cares, they just want an excuse to vent at Muslims. I've lived most of my life in Dublin and I'm not even sure if I've ever spoken to a Muslim here.
Honestly have you nothing else to worry about?

Must get out the old balaclava for a doddle about. Might call into my bank on the way.