Nvidia RTX Discussion

Cuddlesworth

Mr Crispy wrote: »

The rumours are that RDNA2 is actually competitive though, and will be releasing at more or less the same time. Fingers crossed for a mini price war.

Rumours were that Fury was competitive, that Vega was competitive, that vega 7nm would wipe out the current Nvidia top card, that Polaris would change the landscape, that Navi would wipe out the top end and so on.

Meanwhile Nvidia currently has the better architecture, are a node behind and have a lot more R&D to their name then Amd.

Mr Crispy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Rumours were that Fury was competitive, that Vega was competitive, that vega 7nm would wipe out the current Nvidia top card, that Polaris would change the landscape, that Navi would wipe out the top end and so on.

Meanwhile Nvidia currently has the better architecture, are a node behind and have a lot more R&D to their name then Amd.

All true. I guess we'll see if history repeats itself again.

Homelander

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Rumours were that Fury was competitive, that Vega was competitive, that vega 7nm would wipe out the current Nvidia top card, that Polaris would change the landscape, that Navi would wipe out the top end and so on.

Meanwhile Nvidia currently has the better architecture, are a node behind and have a lot more R&D to their name then Amd.

Realistically it's nothing short of a miracle that AMD are so competitive with the meager resources they have compared to Intel or Nvidia.

BloodBath

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Are these not on TSMC's 7nm? If other moves to that platform are indicative, they will see a larger power decrease then a performance increase.

Nobody is sure yet, the die size is rumored to be massive though at over 850mm. I've never seen such a large GPU. No idea how they would cool it. Saying that the 2080ti is 775mm.

Considering the rumored size of the die I'd be surprised if it's 7nm. They wouldn't start so large on a new node. It could well be 10nm.

It certainly won't be cheap though. I can't see AMD beating them as big navi is only meant to be 500mm. Even at 7nm they will struggle and Nvidia has a big lead on the ray tracing and tensor core side.

TSMC's 7nm is supposed to near capacity anyway with AMD's orders. 2 new gens of consoles using it along with the new range of cards. I doubt Nvida could get their foot in the door with a large order.

AMD will probably beat them to market, take a short stint at the top beating the 20 series on price and performance, then Nvidia comes over the top and blows those out of the water but at a price.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Are these not on TSMC's 7nm? If other moves to that platform are indicative, they will see a larger power decrease then a performance increase.

That's practically the same thing. Power is usually the limiting factor with most GPU's coolable thermal limit being around 300w max. If you can reduce the power on a smaller node, meaning the die size is also smaller, then you can increase die size, lose the power saving but increase performance.

Cuddlesworth

BloodBath wrote: »

That's practically the same thing. Power is usually the limiting factor with most GPU's coolable thermal limit being around 300w max. If you can reduce the power on a smaller node, meaning the die size is also smaller, then you can increase die size, lose the power saving but increase performance.

I saw a chart before that said TSMC's 7nm process lead to significantly larger power gains over performance gains over a large number of chip types.

Eg, you can increase performance by 10% within the same power envelope or decrease power by 20%. Other process node shrinks didn't see such disproportionate gains.

BloodBath

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I saw a chart before that said TSMC's 7nm process lead to significantly larger power gains over performance gains over a large number of chip types.

Eg, you can increase performance by 10% within the same power envelope or decrease power by 20%. Other process node shrinks didn't see such disproportionate gains.

Oh right, I didn't know that. Still with IPC gains on top it should be a big enough boost. RDNA2 is supposed to have as much as 50% performance per watt over RDNA.

We shall see.

EoinHef

A GTX 1080 cost more than €600 at launch. Zero chance we will see a 3080 for €600 imo.

I'm hoping it wont be more than €750.

BloodBath

The big die I was talking about is most likely the data center card, not the 3080. It's most likely the 3080 comes in around 500mm square which puts it around the 2080's size and AMD's upcoming big navi so it may well be reasonably priced if AMD are competitive.

EoinHef

PCGamer running a story today saying the shroud for the 3080 costs about $150 to make on it's own. Custom PCB for founders cards to accommodate it.

How reliable the info is I'm not sure but I just get a bad feeling Nvidia will brand this card as premium,even for enthusiasts

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-ampere-gddr6x-founders-edition/

Homelander

Really all depends on what AMD brings to the table. I have my sights set on a 3080 but no way am I paying the Nvidia premium this time around.

Not saying I'll go AMD, just that I'll stick with my current card.

Cuddlesworth

EoinHef wrote: »

PCGamer running a story today saying the shroud for the 3080 costs about $150 to make on it's own. Custom PCB for founders cards to accommodate it.

How reliable the info is I'm not sure but I just get a bad feeling Nvidia will brand this card as premium,even for enthusiasts

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-ampere-gddr6x-founders-edition/

That shroud might have cost 150 to make, since its pre-production.

Would the mass released version cost the same, doubtful.

Cordell

It's not just the shroud it's the whole assembly including the heatsink, or so it's claimed in the original german article they quoted. I don't know about the exact figure, but that heatsink looks very expensive to make.

TheRover

With the inflated prices, what's looking at the moment to be the most bang for the buck on a NVidia GPU?

16* series are inflated 20-30% . 2060 almost the same. 2060S and 2070 a bit better, but even the best prices (under 400UKP) seem to be out of stock

Mr Crispy

Here's a look at the heatsink on its own, according to VideoCardz.

BloodBath

Looks like a good design to me. I doubt it costs anywhere near that though unless the thing is solid copper under that paint.

You could have a good triple fan rad AIO unit for less than that. Can't see it costing any more than 50 tops and that's expensive for a gpu air cooler.

Mr Crispy

Interesting that it's still a double slot design. I wonder has anyone estimated how long it is (phwoar).

K.O.Kiki

Exclusive: NVIDIA has allegedly started an internal investigation into the RTX 3080 leak, with Foxconn and BYD as the suspects. The NVIDIA Product & Sales manager was unaware of the design until he saw the leak.

*edit: English article

BArra

am interested to upgrade from a 1080ti to 3000 series but concerned i might have an issue with my 750watt psu not providing enough juice..

pcpartpicker says my system currently uses 509W

Serephucus

BArra wrote: »

am interested to upgrade from a 1080ti to 3000 series but concerned i might have an issue with my 750watt psu not providing enough juice..

pcpartpicker says my system currently uses 509W

You'll be completely fine.

tazzzZ

im more concerned about the thing not fitting in my case! think these are longer again???

Cuddlesworth

TheRover wrote: »

With the inflated prices, what's looking at the moment to be the most bang for the buck on a NVidia GPU?

16* series are inflated 20-30% . 2060 almost the same. 2060S and 2070 a bit better, but even the best prices (under 400UKP) seem to be out of stock

I think the best option is to wait a few months. To say global supply chains are strained is a understatement.

Homelander

16 series are 30% inflated? Based on what? The GTX1650 is £130, the 1660 is £200 and the 1660 Super is £220. Those are pretty reasonable prices to me and very competitive with AMD's offerings.

Same with the 2060. The 5600XT is about 10% cheaper but they're very similar in performance and personally I'd take the 2060 due to better track record with drivers and stability.

TheRover

Homelander wrote: »

16 series are 30% inflated? Based on what? The GTX1650 is £130, the 1660 is £200 and the 1660 Super is £220. Those are pretty reasonable prices to me and very competitive with AMD's offerings.

Same with the 2060. The 5600XT is about 10% cheaper but they're very similar in performance and personally I'd take the 2060 due to better track record with drivers and stability.

Maybe I'm checking the wrong places? Pre-covid amazon.co.uk had:


1660 for 180UKP - now lowest 207

1660S for 200UKP - now lowest 240 (single fan 230, but not going there)

2060 for 260UKP (single fan 250UKP) - now lowest 317


etc

TheValeyard

tazzzZ wrote: »

im more concerned about the thing not fitting in my case! think these are longer again???

Good point.

Actually must look at the size diff between a 1080ti and 2020ti and then see about the 3000 series.

Cordell

I was never concerned, if anything the case should be. If it doesn't fit something gets trimmed, and it's not the card.

Homelander

TheRover wrote: »

Maybe I'm checking the wrong places? Pre-covid amazon.co.uk had:


1660 for 180UKP - now lowest 207

1660S for 200UKP - now lowest 240 (single fan 230, but not going there)

2060 for 260UKP (single fan 250UKP) - now lowest 317


etc

Sorry - I actually misunderstood you. I thought you meant that the price of the cards were just generally inflated by Nvidia as opposed to it just being supply issues.

Single fan GTX1660's and 2060's are generally OK though for the sake of a tenner I probably would just get a double fan too.

TheRover

Homelander wrote: »

Sorry - I actually misunderstood you. I thought you meant that the price of the cards were just generally inflated by Nvidia as opposed to it just being supply issues.

Single fan GTX1660's and 2060's are generally OK though for the sake of a tenner I probably would just get a double fan too.

While we're having supply issues, it does seem to me that some are more affected than others. 1660TI prices are through the roof. 2060S are more expensive than 2070


2070 seems to be the sweet spot atm, and even 2070S are not that much expensive than they used to be, but was wondering what is this forum's opinion?

GHOST MGG

The 3080 is not going to be cheap....I reckon it will be in the range of 1500-1700 euros each..better start saving

Mr Crispy

I assume you forgot to add the "Ti"?

EoinHef

While I dont think it will be cheap,I think €1500-1700 is not gonna happen either.

I think at worst we see the 3080 repositioned at the 2080 Ti price point. But even that seems a bit too much for me.

Then again look at Apple,pricing is a joke but they keep making a ton of money so who knows.

I'm thinking somewhere between €750-900