Dairy Chitchat 3

yewtree

jaymla627 wrote: »

Their inaction over a proper beef value been properly accounted for on ebi with a value of what a cow will give calf wise says it all for me, they knew well that a good chunk of Irish high ebi Bulls would tank due to poor carcase confirmation and small frames, so they have quietly decided to shy away from it and hopes the bull calf issue solves itself

A cow producing 500kg of milk solids is grossing 2000-2250 on last years price. The money is in the milk. All indexs have to rank traits in order of importance. The value of bull calves in the overall scheme of things is small.

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

I see Icbf have changed the EBI calving and maintenance indexes. The maintenance index is changed to favour the holstein cull cow vs Jersey cross. It's hard to take Ebi seriously when they keep changing it.

Served me well for years but lost all faith in it now ,too much chopping and changing of calculations ,swings in bulls from run to run too big and they seem to want to breed size and milk out of cows

yewtree

mahoney_j wrote: »

Served me well for years but lost all faith in it now ,too much chopping and changing of calculations ,swings in bulls from run to run too big and they seem to want to breed size and milk out of cows

If milk production is been bred out of cows, why is milk production/cow increasing?

mahoney_j

yewtree wrote: »

If milk production is been bred out of cows, why is milk production/cow increasing?

That’s across all cows in country where base may of been pretty low ,look at the highest ebi bulls big minuses for milk

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

That’s across all cows in country where base may of been pretty low ,look at the highest ebi bulls big minuses for milk

But still positive for kgs of solids, what we're paid for, even if they're negative for volume (or water, tbh) which we're penalised for?

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

But still positive for kgs of solids, what we're paid for, even if they're negative for volume (or water, tbh) which we're penalised for?

Positive but with low kg,.were going to end up with super fertile cows that will produce less kg solids and smaller poorer confirmation male and beef ainmals

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

Positive but with low kg,.were going to end up with super fertile cows that will produce less kg solids and smaller poorer confirmation male and beef ainmals

For the majority of lads, though, days in milk is the name of the game.

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

For the majority of lads, though, days in milk is the name of the game.

Alot of the good breeders I know have moved towards type more than EBI. Proven bulls are more reliable I suppose

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

Alot of the good breeders I know have moved towards type more than EBI. Proven bulls are more reliable I suppose

I think there's a sweet spot with yield where you maximise the profit available for your system and are happy with the type of cow you have. Once you go over that, I think the returns are diminishing, increasing profits overall but profit/liter falling.

I'd be concerned about high type bulls pushing output at the expense of profit for my system.

For me, the cows have to calve compactly in spring as there's little profit for me to produce milk over winter and the cows have to be able to milk predominately off grass. And do that with minimal supplements and go incalf and maintain/build BCS over Summer and Autumn so they minimise the foostering around in having a few large groups of cows getting extra/less feed to get them in the right order for Spring.

My experience of high type bulls wouldn't tend towards them doing that for me but I haven't looked at them in any great detail with a good few years now.

Horses for courses I suppose.

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I think there's a sweet spot with yield where you maximise the profit available for your system and are happy with the type of cow you have. Once you go over that, I think the returns are diminishing, increasing profits overall but profit/liter falling.

I'd be concerned about high type bulls pushing output at the expense of profit for my system.

For me, the cows have to calve compactly in spring as there's little profit for me to produce milk over winter and the cows have to be able to milk predominately off grass. And do that with minimal supplements and go incalf and maintain/build BCS over Summer and Autumn so they minimise the foostering around in having a few large groups of cows getting extra/less feed to get them in the right order for Spring.

My experience of high type bulls wouldn't tend towards them doing that for me but I haven't looked at them in any great detail with a good few years now.

Horses for courses I suppose.

Yep, same here. I wouldn't like to go down the high input route but I don't mind feeding 1 ton a year. A little bit of type and a little bit of EBI but I wouldn't get carried away with either. I have now got 2 calves off sexed dandyman straws and they're both bulls. Is that really just bad luck or what?

atlantic mist

what the base cow figures now for icbf?

alps

straight wrote: »

Yep, same here. I wouldn't like to go down the high input route but I don't mind feeding 1 ton a year. A little bit of type and a little bit of EBI but I wouldn't get carried away with either. I have now got 2 calves off sexed dandyman straws and they're both bulls. Is that really just bad luck or what?

Did you turn the straw the correct way around when inseminating?

straight

alps wrote: »

Did you turn the straw the correct way around when inseminating?

Got 80+ percent conception rate with the sexed straws on my 6 best cows. 2 calves so far and they are both bulls. It's the highs and lows of breeding I guess. Bit of a kick in the arse so far. The other 3 better be heifers or I'll cry. Had a really bad run of fr bulls last year.

whelan2

straight wrote: »

Got 80+ percent conception rate with the sexed straws on my 6 best cows. 2 calves so far and they are both bulls. It's the highs and lows of breeding I guess. Bit of a kick in the arse so far. The other 3 better be heifers or I'll cry. Had a really bad run of fr bulls last year.

I used sexed too . I haven't looked it up but know some of the bulls are from sexed.

straight

whelan2 wrote: »

I used sexed too . I haven't looked it up but know some of the bulls are from sexed.

We must be using sexed for at least 6 years and never got a bull until this year.

cjpm

straight wrote: »

We must be using sexed for at least 6 years and never got a bull until this year.

From what company??

straight

cjpm wrote: »

From what company??

Munster

alps

straight wrote: »

Got 80+ percent conception rate with the sexed straws on my 6 best cows. 2 calves so far and they are both bulls. It's the highs and lows of breeding I guess. Bit of a kick in the arse so far. The other 3 better be heifers or I'll cry. Had a really bad run of fr bulls last year.

Savage conception rate..do you AI yourself? Have you a preferred time of heat for inseminating?

straight

alps wrote: »

Savage conception rate..do you AI yourself? Have you a preferred time of heat for inseminating?

Use a good local tech. AI after morning milking - once per day. Get good conception rates alright but alot of heifers repeated last year. Might synchronise them this year. I'd like to do the Ai course but I wouldn't have the confidence, I've only about 70 cows and the tech provides a very good service.

mengele

If you put out farm yard dung in a field now when would it be fit to graze again?

tanko

straight wrote: »

Use a good local tech. AI after morning milking - once per day. Get good conception rates alright but alot of heifers repeated last year. Might synchronise them this year. I'd like to do the Ai course but I wouldn't have the confidence, I've only about 70 cows and the tech provides a very good service.

If you go out in the morning and there's a cow in standing heat that there was no sign of the previous night do you Ai her then or leave her til the following morning?

jaymla627

tanko wrote: »

If you go out in the morning and there's a cow in standing heat that there was no sign of the previous night do you Ai her then or leave her til the following morning?

That evening is the best time, 12 hours after the onset of standing heat is what the experts say

tanko

jaymla627 wrote: »

That evening is the best time, 12 hours after the onset of standing heat is what the experts say

True, that's when i'd do her but he's only A'ing in the morning. Too late is usually better than too early tho.

Mooooo

tanko wrote: »

If you go out in the morning and there's a cow in standing heat that there was no sign of the previous night do you Ai her then or leave her til the following morning?

I'd ai, would be after milking and a cup of tea. If she is still going hard at evening milking she may get a second straw the next morning. Do once a day ai here also

Castlekeeper

straight wrote: »

Got 80+ percent conception rate with the sexed straws on my 6 best cows. 2 calves so far and they are both bulls. It's the highs and lows of breeding I guess. Bit of a kick in the arse so far. The other 3 better be heifers or I'll cry. Had a really bad run of fr bulls last year.

Are you sure you got sexed semen? Looks very like conventional stats there.

K.G.

Had 2 bulls to 1 hiefer with fr last year and thought i might get a run this year.worse this year 30%heifer s70% bull small sample but dosent look good

straight

tanko wrote: »

If you go out in the morning and there's a cow in standing heat that there was no sign of the previous night do you Ai her then or leave her til the following morning?

I give her a straw and if she's still in heat in the evening I'd give her another straw the following morning

straight

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Are you sure you got sexed semen? Looks very like conventional stats there.

I paid for sexed straws anyway but doesn't look like I got it.

atlantic mist

sexed straws are only 90% sexed for female, 1 in ten will be male unless your very lucky

Buford T. Justice XIX

atlantic mist wrote: »

sexed straws are only 90% sexed for female, 1 in ten will be male unless your very lucky

Lucky?:D