The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

thomond2006

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

How the hell are they going to pay everyone.

One season rental?

Optimus Caesar

thomond2006 wrote: »

One season rental?

Don’t think so. You don’t give up that much unless you plan on locking him down long term.

Knex*

That is going to bite Rams in the ass, long term.

Their OL is tragic this year and Goff isn't winning a Super Bowl with it. They've mortgaged their future to win now, but I think they've gambled incorrectly here.

thomond2006

Brockers, Cooks and Whitworth are all free agents and would free up significant funds.

Re-signing Ramsey is possible but it's going to cost them on other areas of the team. The Rams will need to hit on cheap mid-round rookies to bolster the lineup.

Optimus Caesar

thomond2006 wrote: »

Brockers, Cooks and Whitworth are all free agents and would free up significant funds.

Re-signing Ramsey is possible but it's going to cost them on other areas of the team. The Rams will need to hit on cheap mid-round rookies to bolster the lineup.

Whitworth will retire. I was surprised he came back this year but I’d say the prospect of another super bow run persuaded him.
I don’t know if Brockers will be kept as I like him but his production is down on last season so far.

Cooks will be interesting. I’d like to keep him but don’t think it’ll be possible.

Knex*

It's just a hell of a lot of capital, both in picks and the impending salary demands, to give up.

A somewhat maligned QB that just threw for 70 yards on a 140m contract. A RB who is seemingly now a perennial injury report member on a 60m contract, and no OL to talk about.

It seems to be a shortsighted panic move.

Adamcp898

I'd kinda get it if they had started similarly to how they did last year. But at 3-3 and with so many question marks hanging over the aspects of their game that got them that super bowl run last year, I just don't think it's wise to go all-in. All of Goff's weaknesses that people said were there are finally being exposed, the star running back is a shadow of his former self, and even though they have a star receiving core they can't seem to scheme well enough to take full advantage of it, either due to Goff's limitations or the coaching staff's.

Christy42

It does seem weird. It does make the defense very good. Even with Talib on IR.

Still Goff seems very much like a QB who takes what his team mates give him. With a better oline and Gurley at full I think he looks great again and takes full advantage (damning with faint praise but this is a rare enough skill against NFL defenses). Without that Goff won't drag them out of trouble like the top QBs, indeed he seems to suffer more than most.

Optimus Caesar

I think you’re right about Goff Christy.
With a functional O Line and a good running game he is more than fine and he can be very productive in that. But take that away and he cannot handle pressure.
Gurley is the bigger issue and IMO he’ll be cut in offseason if this is what he is going to be now. They are paying him too much for that.

thomond2006

Optimus Caesar wrote: »

I think you’re right about Goff Christy.
With a functional O Line and a good running game he is more than fine and he can be very productive in that. But take that away and he cannot handle pressure.
Gurley is the bigger issue and IMO he’ll be cut in offseason if this is what he is going to be now. They are paying him too much for that.

Gurley's guarantees lock him in for 2020.

Optimus Caesar

thomond2006 wrote: »

Gurley's guarantees lock him in for 2020.

How much would it cost them to cut him?
Given how little they used him before the quad injury and his production with what touches he did get, he’s massively overpaid.
Don’t get me wrong, what he had done since he came in to the league earned that contract but the business of the NFL demands that the Rams take a look at it if he’s now going to be a 10-15 touches guy going forward.

boccy23

Is there a worse DC than Steve Spagnuolo.

If you take away his first two seasons with the Giants ('07 & '08) in coaching stints either as DC or HC with the Rams, Saints, Giants and now the Chiefs, he has a top half of the league rated defence once - the '16 Giants which finished at 10.

Other than his team rank as follows:
29
19
22
32
32
31
31

And now with the Chiefs, they are currently ranked at 27.

Why is he still getting a chance and he has killed the chances of so many teams - currently the Patrick Mahomes Chiefs.

The last two weeks have proven that the Chiefs run D is awful (30th). So run the ball and keep Mahomes off the field. Just 20 mins possession for them last week.

cosatron

boccy23 wrote: »

Is there a worse DC than Steve Spagnuolo.

If you take away his first two seasons with the Giants ('07 & '08) in coaching stints either as DC or HC with the Rams, Saints, Giants and now the Chiefs, he has a top half of the league rated defence once - the '16 Giants which finished at 10.

Other than his team rank as follows:
29
19
22
32
32
31
31

And now with the Chiefs, they are currently ranked at 27.

Why is he still getting a chance and he has killed the chances of so many teams - currently the Patrick Mahomes Chiefs.

The last two weeks have proven that the Chiefs run D is awful (30th). So run the ball and keep Mahomes off the field. Just 20 mins possession for them last week.

I think letting go Houston and dee ford is having a bigger impact on the defence, Houston was the heartbeat of that defence and he is still only 30.

Knex*

He also seemingly gets picked to coach teams with little talent on defense. So whether he is a scapegoat of sorts, or a man who can help mask some of the inefficiencies with his complex scheme, I don't know.

When he has talent, you could argue that he seems to do fine? Definitely a weird one though, as he has some of the worst defenses of all time under his name.

The Chiefs had a bad defense last year and they let two big players walk, as cosatron said above, so not sure it's a great situation for any coordinator.

boccy23

cosatron wrote: »

I think letting go Houston and dee ford is having a bigger impact on the defence, Houston was the heartbeat of that defence and he is still only 30.

I'm not arguing about the situation per say, but why does he keep getting these chances? Are there not any other DCs or potential DCs wither in the HFL or college. There are loads of HCs and OCs brought from college but none of the D side of the ball.

He reminds me of a nicer(?) version of Rex Ryan.

cosatron

boccy23 wrote: »

I'm not arguing about the situation per say, but why does he keep getting these chances? Are there not any other DCs or potential DCs wither in the HFL or college. There are loads of HCs and OCs brought from college but none of the D side of the ball.

He reminds me of a nicer(?) version of Rex Ryan.

there does seem to be a lack of young defensive coaches in the league and any prominent dc seems to always get a head coaching job at some stage and when it doesn't work out they return to dc and this also applies to college football.

Foxtrol

Christy42 wrote: »

It does seem weird. It does make the defense very good. Even with Talib on IR.

Still Goff seems very much like a QB who takes what his team mates give him. With a better oline and Gurley at full I think he looks great again and takes full advantage (damning with faint praise but this is a rare enough skill against NFL defenses). Without that Goff won't drag them out of trouble like the top QBs, indeed he seems to suffer more than most.

Problem is that unless they get lucky they now aren't going to be able to improve their OL through FA or the draft to give Goff that support. They are improving in an area where they didn't really have a huge issue, while ignoring areas they did.

An interesting comment I saw was that Ramsey isn't going to be of huge benefit when it comes to in division rivals. None of the other teams in the NFC West have a clear #1 receiver that they focus their offense through. Obviously Rams probably have bigger fish to target in a hopeful Super Bowl run but they have to make it to the playoffs first.

The_Honeybadger

They will do well to make it out of the division with San Fran and Seattle in there. Not sure I like this signing either but good luck to them.

Jolly Red Giant

I see Brock Osweiler has retired - taking his $41.3million in career earnings with him.

phatkev

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I see Brock Osweiler has retired - taking his $41.3million in career earnings with him.

Not bad going for 7 odd years!

Tell me how

phatkev wrote: »

Not bad going for 7 odd years!

Not bad going for 697 completed passes.
Just under 60K for every successful pass.

Xavi6

boccy23 wrote: »

I'm not arguing about the situation per say, but why does he keep getting these chances? Are there not any other DCs or potential DCs wither in the HFL or college. There are loads of HCs and OCs brought from college but none of the D side of the ball.

He reminds me of a nicer(?) version of Rex Ryan.

He got the gig because he's Andy Reid's mate from their Philly days, lots of Chiefs fans were very unimpressed with the appointment and they're being proved right. Run the ball, keep Patrick Mahomes off the field, profit.

Chris Jones, Eric Fisher, Sammy Watkins and Kendall Fuller are all out for the trip to Denver while Mahomes hobbles around on a bad ankle behind a bad o-line. The Chiefs don't tend to do primetime games well so could easily be 4-3 tomorrow night when Phillip Lindsay rushes for 150+ yards, not good after all the hype.

MileHighGuy

What's extremely strange about the Ramsey trade.... there is no contract extension agreed upon. Ramsey has them over a barrel when the negotiation comes up. What are they going to do in 18 months time? Release him? After giving up the opportunity to draft 2 top tier players on team friendly contracts to get him?

The Rams sputtered through the playoffs last year, (offensively) ground to a halt in the Super Bowl, and have not recovered. Goff contract looks like it will be an albatross around their neck for years to come. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to trade him in the offseason. Is the drop off from him to Bortles so big? $36m v $1m in salary and could net them some badly needed draft capital.

Shedite27

MileHighGuy wrote: »

What's extremely strange about the Ramsey trade.... there is no contract extension agreed upon. Ramsey has them over a barrel when the negotiation comes up. What are they going to do in 18 months time? Release him? After giving up the opportunity to draft 2 top tier players on team friendly contracts to get him?

I can't believe any team or GM would be that stupid to let that happen. Presumably they've something in the workings behind the scenes. I've read it a few places now, for every analyst and fan to spot the problem, and the Rams to have missed it? Doesn't seem likely.

The_Honeybadger

MileHighGuy wrote: »

What's extremely strange about the Ramsey trade.... there is no contract extension agreed upon. Ramsey has them over a barrel when the negotiation comes up. What are they going to do in 18 months time? Release him? After giving up the opportunity to draft 2 top tier players on team friendly contracts to get him?

The Rams sputtered through the playoffs last year, (offensively) ground to a halt in the Super Bowl, and have not recovered. Goff contract looks like it will be an albatross around their neck for years to come. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to trade him in the offseason. Is the drop off from him to Bortles so big? $36m v $1m in salary and could net them some badly needed draft capital.

Ramsey will be the highest paid CB in football before the start of next season, a deal in principal may already be worked out but for details. Move makes no sense otherwise. Rams are really rolling the dice here going with a very top heavy roster. The Gurley and Goff contracts look bad as others have said and they may lose solid guys like Littleton as a result.

It doesn’t look like a sustainable way to build a roster to me. It’s going to be fun watching how it unfolds though.

MileHighGuy

Shedite27 wrote: »

I can't believe any team or GM would be that stupid to let that happen. Presumably they've something in the workings behind the scenes. I've read it a few places now, for every analyst and fan to spot the problem, and the Rams to have missed it? Doesn't seem likely.

Agreed, you would have to *think* they have something in principal, and certainly it will be the richest contract on a per year basis for a CB, but what else....there's guaranteed money he can demand, a fully guaranteed contract, he can dictate the terms that's for sure.

MileHighGuy

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I see Brock Osweiler has retired - taking his $41.3million in career earnings with him.

Some fond memories of Brock from 2015... he was able to complete some great throws every now and again....check out this 50 yard bomb, right into the receivers hands.

https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1184580835179220992

Foxtrol

Shedite27 wrote: »

I can't believe any team or GM would be that stupid to let that happen. Presumably they've something in the workings behind the scenes. I've read it a few places now, for every analyst and fan to spot the problem, and the Rams to have missed it? Doesn't seem likely.

Same issue was raised with the trade for Tunsil and didn't agree a deal in advance and the Texans didn't get the same benefit of the doubt (possibly understandable given their FO chaos).

Trusting either a team or player to live up to a verbal agreement is an incredibly stupid move. It is easy for Ramsey to say now that he'll accept a certain amount now but things might change after a few games and he sees an extra nearly 20% come out of his pay due to California taxes compared to when he was with the Jags. Presumably they'd hope that future increased endorsements would negate it but its a different thing when you look at your pay cheque and see the difference.

jack presley

As said in the article, with on-side kicks so hard to execute these days with the new rules, it's a wonder why more teams don't just drill the ball at an opponent and hope for the best.

https://deadspin.com/ohio-recovers-onside-kick-booted-off-opposing-receivers-1839193091

Tell me how

jack presley wrote: »

As said in the article, with on-side kicks so hard to execute these days with the new rules, it's a wonder why more teams don't just drill the ball at an opponent and hope for the best.

Haven't read article but I often wondered why they don't sky the ball to land 15 yards away. Receiving team could aim to call fair catch but crowding the area around them may put them off their game and have them fumble.