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Changes in the GAA - super thread
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Transfers? Draft?
So the logic of that will be that hurling and football like colleges are dominated by 3/4 different outfits every year made up 90% of players from the same 3/4 counties?
Draft would make that even worse.
Some people just appear intent on destroying anything in this country that has a tradition and history.
The Zappone/Varadkar/Martin/McDonald axis of the GAA :-)0 -
The Lost Sheep wrote: »
Its not gibberish. Most of the normal challengers to Dublin are just not good enough.
They're not able to challenge Dublin anymore because of the unfair advantages have. The biggest issue is the funding advantage Dublin have enjoyed for over a decade.
The unfairness has destroyed Leinster and is well on the way towards destroying the All Ireland.The Lost Sheep wrote: »
Dublin are in no way professional though. Very hard to say they are.
Per capita funding doesnt take into account so many other factors
Dublin are in many ways professional. Very easy to say they are.
What factors should account for Dublin receiving more on a per capita basis than other counties exactly?
Some people just appear intent on destroying anything in this country that has a tradition and history.
I agree- Dublin fans are the worst for this with their refusal to acknowledge either A. that a funding gap exists or B. That if it does exist, that it makes no difference. It's destroying Gaelic Football.0 -
Does any Dublin supporter think that the money they have got is even a little bit unfair?0
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Does any Dublin supporter think that the money they have got is even a little bit unfair?
I’ve said on these threads a few times that on the face of it it does but there needs to be a review of the actual money what it’s spent on, which codes. It has to include all counties what each gets, what it pays and in some cases who pays as there may be some counties with sponsors paying for things directly, it needs to look into how funding is spent on clubs and whether money spent on say small clubs with one team should be proportionate to a club with multiple teams. The sponsorship is a big one I see people suggest that should be pooled but sure why would the DCB bother their holes getting good deals if they lose most of it? It would drive sponsorship under the table. It needs to look at who is spending what in the county boards and what they are getting for their buck as I’m sure plenty would just flush it down the jacks. The end goal is surely to get as many kids playing and being coached well as possible.
Dublin’s dominance is well overstated if the imbalance is so big why are the Dubs not dominating underage in both codes? Why are they not beating teams out the gate in all Ireland finals? They’re better than Kerry and Mayo currently but not miles ahead why are they different? The provincial championship is a turd and it makes Dublin seem better but it’s only in comparison to some very poor teams, although Kildare look to be going the right direction in fairness.
There is a lot wrong with the GAA at the moment but it’s not the Dubs.0 -
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Biggest issue isnt simply funding.They're not able to challenge Dublin anymore because of the unfair advantages have. The biggest issue is the funding advantage Dublin have enjoyed for over a decade.
Dublin improved at same time some of their traditional rivals went off the boil and it isnt destroying the all irelandThe unfairness has destroyed Leinster and is well on the way towards destroying the All Ireland.
Very easy how? Theyre as pro as any other top inter county side.Dublin are in many ways professional. Very easy to say they are.
Im not a Dublin fan. Tipp man based in Galway. There is a lot more destroying gaelic like issues around rules, some traditional counties being much poorer than been in a long time.I agree- Dublin fans are the worst for this with their refusal to acknowledge either A. that a funding gap exists or B. That if it does exist, that it makes no difference. It's destroying Gaelic Football.0 -
The Lost Sheep wrote: »Biggest issue isnt simply funding.
Dublin improved at same time some of their traditional rivals went off the boil and it isnt destroying the all ireland
Very easy how? Theyre as pro as any other top inter county side.
The biggest issue is funding. The other advantages Dublin enjoy (e.g home advantage, population), while always unfair, have existed for decades. Their current dominance coincides almost completely with their increased funding in the mid 2000s- Leinster dominance initially, followed by All Ireland dominance.
Again, most of the nonsense you're spouting has been addressed and debunked in the previous thread. I suggest you have a read.
And it is destroying the game, at inter- county level at least. Last year's All Ireland was widely slated, partly for the boring nature of the football played but also because of the dominance of Dublin. Attendances as a whole were way down last year as Dublin coasted to the All Ireland. The average attendance for Dublin's own games has also declined hugely over the last 10 years also.The Lost Sheep wrote: »
Im not a Dublin fan. Tipp man based in Galway. There is a lot more destroying gaelic like issues around rules, some traditional counties being much poorer than been in a long time.
This wasn't addressed to you, I was replying to another poster. There are other problems of course, but the biggest one is Dublin's dominance. This needs to be urgently addressed.0 -
I’ve said on these threads a few times that on the face of it it does but there needs to be a review of the actual money what it’s spent on, which codes. It has to include all counties what each gets, what it pays and in some cases who pays as there may be some counties with sponsors paying for things directly, it needs to look into how funding is spent on clubs and whether money spent on say small clubs with one team should be proportionate to a club with multiple teams. The sponsorship is a big one I see people suggest that should be pooled but sure why would the DCB bother their holes getting good deals if they lose most of it? It would drive sponsorship under the table. It needs to look at who is spending what in the county boards and what they are getting for their buck as I’m sure plenty would just flush it down the jacks. The end goal is surely to get as many kids playing and being coached well as possible.
Dublin’s dominance is well overstated if the imbalance is so big why are the Dubs not dominating underage in both codes? Why are they not beating teams out the gate in all Ireland finals? They’re better than Kerry and Mayo currently but not miles ahead why are they different? The provincial championship is a turd and it makes Dublin seem better but it’s only in comparison to some very poor teams, although Kildare look to be going the right direction in fairness.
There is a lot wrong with the GAA at the moment but it’s not the Dubs.
But we've been told on this thread that Dublin spend 2.7 million every year on coaching. Half is paid by clubs and half by the GAA. This is a lot of money and no other county can avail of this offer as far as I'm aware? If I remember correctly, Dublin have an income of 1.5 million from sponsorship every year. I also don't think any other county has anywhere close to this?
You say Kerry and Mayo are not far behind, isn't it true that those two counties have quite a bit of financial backing also? When Donegal won and were at their best, didn't they have some investor who put a good bit of money in? What I'm saying is, apart from some exceptions, doesn't it seem that you need to have the finance available to compete at the top level?
I don't know about anyone else but I don't think this is right. There was always rumours which were most factual about managers getting paid and that sort of stuff. That was wrong but this is completely different. If it's based on your bank balance, then most counties may just forget about it now. Lot's already have. I don't think anyone is saying that the Dubs are all that's wrong with the GAA, they just are at the forefront of this financial issue. We all want the association to make money, it's important for every level of the GAA. But I think many of us are fed up with it being about business only and moving further and further away from what the GAA is supposed to be about.0 -
The money is spent on kids not on the senior i/c team where Dublin spend on a par with other counties.
This isn’t like pro sport where man city or Chelsea can afford to pay for anyone they want. It’s about giving children the best coaching, other counties may struggle on that front but as I’ve said some seem to be doing okay with it so there has to be more to it than just pure cash. It’s how you spend what you have, the championship has always been tilted toward the big guns and more so the provincial set up just look at the Munster championship and how many times just 2 counties have won it. Even if Dublin has all funding cut and went to pot as a team and crashed to div 4 it still wouldn’t make it more likely that Laois will win a Sam just that Kerry probably will.0 -
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This income is spent on development officers etc going into schools introducing and coaching sport to kids just like the rest of the country and as Dublin has so many more people/kids than rest of the country there will be far greater spend in Dublin.The biggest issue is funding. The other advantages Dublin enjoy (e.g home advantage, population), while always unfair, have existed for decades. Their current dominance coincides almost completely with their increased funding in the mid 2000s- Leinster dominance initially, followed by All Ireland dominance.
Again, most of the nonsense you're spouting has been addressed and debunked in the previous thread. I suggest you have a read.
And it is destroying the game, at inter- county level at least. Last year's All Ireland was widely slated, partly for the boring nature of the football played but also because of the dominance of Dublin. Attendances as a whole were way down last year as Dublin coasted to the All Ireland. The average attendance for Dublin's own games has also declined hugely over the last 10 years also.
This wasn't addressed to you, I was replying to another poster. There are other problems of course, but the biggest one is Dublin's dominance. This needs to be urgently addressed.
And do Dublin really spend far more on their inter county set up than elsewhere?
Dublin should be playing more games outside Croke Park but the funding whinging is getting real tiresome.0 -
The money is spent on kids not on the senior i/c team where Dublin spend on a par with other counties.
This isn’t like pro sport where man city or Chelsea can afford to pay for anyone they want. It’s about giving children the best coaching, other counties may struggle on that front but as I’ve said some seem to be doing okay with it so there has to be more to it than just pure cash. It’s how you spend what you have, the championship has always been tilted toward the big guns and more so the provincial set up just look at the Munster championship and how many times just 2 counties have won it. Even if Dublin has all funding cut and went to pot as a team and crashed to div 4 it still wouldn’t make it more likely that Laois will win a Sam just that Kerry probably will.
Kids become adults! Look at the incredible amount of outstanding players who have come out in the past few years alone. Fenton, Howard, Costello, Manion, Kilkenny, O'Callahan, McCaffery. These are all under 26, there are many more top players too. I don't know the ins and outs of the underage structures in Dublin but it must be seriously impressive to be producing a list of players of that standard that seems to be never ending.
I think the 2.7 million has to have played a huge part in this. And I think you made a great point, unlike soccer, no county can just go out and buy players. This makes creating your own talent the most important aspect. Again I don't know the ins and outs of the Kerry system but it looks like they have identified this and I wouldn't be surprised to see a big amount spent in this department by Kerry GAA.
I don't know what would happen if Dublin got their funding cut but does it not make more sense to fund counties who appear to have no chance of winning anything? I don't see why counties like Dublin or Kerry would get a big amount of funding when they would already be towards the top. Why would you give them the money to push further ahead instead of giving the smaller counties the money to catch up? It just makes zero sense.0 -
The money is spent on kids not on the senior i/c team where Dublin spend on a par with other counties.
This isn’t like pro sport where man city or Chelsea can afford to pay for anyone they want. It’s about giving children the best coaching, other counties may struggle on that front but as I’ve said some seem to be doing okay with it so there has to be more to it than just pure cash. It’s how you spend what you have, the championship has always been tilted toward the big guns and more so the provincial set up just look at the Munster championship and how many times just 2 counties have won it. Even if Dublin has all funding cut and went to pot as a team and crashed to div 4 it still wouldn’t make it more likely that Laois will win a Sam just that Kerry probably will.
If Dublin are being overfunded for Games Development, which they are, it leaves more of their money from sponsorship money etc to be put towards their senior teams. So yes, it does help the senior team.
I'm not sure are you aware also, but human beings tend to age, so money spent on kids 10 years ago will be helping their senior team today. Likewise, money spent today on youngsters will help in the future.
You're aware Dublin have been getting more per registered player and per head of population than every other county over the last 15 years? So it's not just "how it's being spent", they're receiving more too.
Stop trying to defend Dublin's unfair advantages.The Lost Sheep wrote: »This income is spent on development officers etc going into schools introducing and coaching sport to kids just like the rest of the country and as Dublin has so many more people/kids than rest of the country there will be far greater spend in Dublin.
And do Dublin really spend far more on their inter county set up than elsewhere?
Dublin should be playing more games outside Croke Park but the funding whinging is getting real tiresome.
I notice you didn't try to actually address many of my points- hopefully the penny might be dropping.
Addressed the garbage about schools and children above, including the per capita spend.
The only whinging is from Dublin fans whenever their unfair advantage is pointed out.0 -
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I’ve said on these threads a few times that on the face of it it does but there needs to be a review of the actual money what it’s spent on, which codes. It has to include all counties what each gets, what it pays and in some cases who pays as there may be some counties with sponsors paying for things directly, it needs to look into how funding is spent on clubs and whether money spent on say small clubs with one team should be proportionate to a club with multiple teams. The sponsorship is a big one I see people suggest that should be pooled but sure why would the DCB bother their holes getting good deals if they lose most of it? It would drive sponsorship under the table. It needs to look at who is spending what in the county boards and what they are getting for their buck as I’m sure plenty would just flush it down the jacks. The end goal is surely to get as many kids playing and being coached well as possible.
Dublin’s dominance is well overstated if the imbalance is so big why are the Dubs not dominating underage in both codes? Why are they not beating teams out the gate in all Ireland finals? They’re better than Kerry and Mayo currently but not miles ahead why are they different? The provincial championship is a turd and it makes Dublin seem better but it’s only in comparison to some very poor teams, although Kildare look to be going the right direction in fairness.
There is a lot wrong with the GAA at the moment but it’s not the Dubs.
You don't see the difference at underage as money doesn't make a difference at underage, its down to talent. Where you see the difference is after minor. Dublin can take two to three times as many kids into development and have the support teams around them. Some kids will leave while others just won't make it. Most counties will cough up the same % of the players except Dublin have more on day one so they now have more choice, they also have the money to put better systems and people in place. Thats why Dublin suddenly come to the fore at U21 and why they have ready made seniors walking on to the team like a lad thats had years of conditioning at 21yrs old.
On the sponsorship, if it was pooled then it would be Croke Park doing the deal and the sponsor that wanted Dublin or Cork would pay the big bucks and from there the scale would decrease. Any carrot to negotiate a good deal is removed from the DCB's hands.0 -
You don't see the difference at underage as money doesn't make a difference at underage, its down to talent. Where you see the difference is after minor. Dublin can take two to three times as many kids into development and have the support teams around them. Some kids will leave while others just won't make it. Most counties will cough up the same % of the players except Dublin have more on day one so they now have more choice, they also have the money to put better systems and people in place. Thats why Dublin suddenly come to the fore at U21 and why they have ready made seniors walking on to the team like a lad thats had years of conditioning at 21yrs old.
On the sponsorship, if it was pooled then it would be Croke Park doing the deal and the sponsor that wanted Dublin or Cork would pay the big bucks and from there the scale would decrease. Any carrot to negotiate a good deal is removed from the DCB's hands.
Ah sure, money doesn't kick the ball over the bar. All those millions are a hindrance if anything.
And other teams need to step up too, it's not Dublin's fault they can't compete with the multi- million euro juggernaut.
No-one said anything about Kilkenny when they were winning the hurling, don't you know?
And Dublin only won one All Ireland between 1984 and 2010, no-one was complaining then.
Don't you know the money only goes to helping the little kids anyway? There's a lot of volunteering in the GAA in Dublin, people forget that!
I imagine any response to you will comprise of one of the above arguments.0 -
Can anyone answer this post?Kids become adults! Look at the incredible amount of outstanding players who have come out in the past few years alone. Fenton, Howard, Costello, Manion, Kilkenny, O'Callahan, McCaffery. These are all under 26, there are many more top players too. I don't know the ins and outs of the underage structures in Dublin but it must be seriously impressive to be producing a list of players of that standard that seems to be never ending.
I think the 2.7 million has to have played a huge part in this. And I think you made a great point, unlike soccer, no county can just go out and buy players. This makes creating your own talent the most important aspect. Again I don't know the ins and outs of the Kerry system but it looks like they have identified this and I wouldn't be surprised to see a big amount spent in this department by Kerry GAA.
I don't know what would happen if Dublin got their funding cut but does it not make more sense to fund counties who appear to have no chance of winning anything? I don't see why counties like Dublin or Kerry would get a big amount of funding when they would already be towards the top. Why would you give them the money to push further ahead instead of giving the smaller counties the money to catch up? It just makes zero sense.
Why would you give millions of euro to counties with big resources and advantages already instead of other counties who need to catch up?0 -
Love to. Washing my hair :-)0
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Kids become adults! Look at the incredible amount of outstanding players who have come out in the past few years alone. Fenton, Howard, Costello, Manion, Kilkenny, O'Callahan, McCaffery. These are all under 26, there are many more top players too. I don't know the ins and outs of the underage structures in Dublin but it must be seriously impressive to be producing a list of players of that standard that seems to be never ending.
I think the 2.7 million has to have played a huge part in this. And I think you made a great point, unlike soccer, no county can just go out and buy players. This makes creating your own talent the most important aspect. Again I don't know the ins and outs of the Kerry system but it looks like they have identified this and I wouldn't be surprised to see a big amount spent in this department by Kerry GAA.
I don't know what would happen if Dublin got their funding cut but does it not make more sense to fund counties who appear to have no chance of winning anything? I don't see why counties like Dublin or Kerry would get a big amount of funding when they would already be towards the top. Why would you give them the money to push further ahead instead of giving the smaller counties the money to catch up? It just makes zero sense.
Dublin spend their money on coaching all the kids, the fat ones, the small ones, the ones with special needs, both male and female.
Kerry spend their money on hothousing the better talents, hence their success at minor.
Much prefer the Dublin approach myself. As I have said repeatedly on many threads, it all comes down to whether you see mass participation as the most important thing for our national games or whether you see success for your own county as the most important thing.0 -
Beechwoodspark wrote: »I’ve had hardcore dub supporters admit that they are embarrassed at how unfair and borderline meaningless the championship has become over the last few years.
100% meaningless.
We lurch from one year to the next hoping mayo or Tyrone or kerry will topple them, as if that is the answer. The thing is, even if they do - then what? Dublin will just win another 4 all Irelands afterwards. It's pointless and it isn't sport.
I heard the analogy of lance armstrong being used. But to my mind, it is that, and then the TDF officials giving him a Harley Davison on top of it. With the obligatory message to his competitors to 'get their house in order' and 'it is up to you to catch up' as he bombs past them and they cough out his exhaust fumes. Surely if that is the case, then it was up to lance to catch up in the first place without getting all that extracurruicular help?
In 50 years people will look back on this 5 in a row and there will be an asterix beside it. It will be viewed as artificial. I feel quite badly for the actual players in the Dublin team because they are top class and they don't deserve their legacy to be tarnished in that manner. But that is just the reality if the situation they find themselves in.
Re Ewan McKenna, I find it tiresome that people attack his articles by not referencing any part of them, but rather insulting the man personally, and then go on to spew out the same rhetoric that that very same article has highlighted and utterly disproven...0 -
MayoAreMagic wrote: »100% meaningless.
We lurch from one year to the next hoping mayo or Tyrone or kerry will topple them, as if that is the answer. The thing is, even if they do - then what? Dublin will just win another 4 all Irelands afterwards. It's pointless and it isn't sport.
I heard the analogy of lance armstrong being used. But to my mind, it is that, and then the TDF officials giving him a Harley Davison on top of it. With the obligatory message to his competitors to 'get their house in order' and 'it is up to you to catch up' as he bombs past them and they cough out his exhaust fumes. Surely if that is the case, then it was up to lance to catch up in the first place without getting all that extracurruicular help?
In 50 years people will look back on this 5 in a row and there will be an asterix beside it. It will be viewed as artificial. I feel quite badly for the actual players in the Dublin team because they are top class and they don't deserve their legacy to be tarnished in that manner. But that is just the reality if the situation they find themselves in.
Re Ewan McKenna, I find it tiresome that people attack his articles by not referencing any part of them, but rather insulting the man personally, and then go on to spew out the same rhetoric that that very same article has highlighted and utterly disproven...
Replying to yourself, can anyone get more pathetic then this0 -
Beechwoodspark wrote: »I’ve had hardcore dub supporters admit that they are embarrassed at how unfair and borderline meaningless the championship has become over the last few years.
No, no you haven’t0 -
Replying to yourself, can anyone get more pathetic then this
Why is your response always an attempt to turn a discussion into a personalised slagging match? Is it to derail to discussion? To try to get the thread blocked so you don't have to address valid arguments? Or whichever comes first?
I'm not that poster, we both know that. Discuss the point please.0 -
Dublin spend their money on coaching all the kids, the fat ones, the small ones, the ones with special needs, both male and female.
Kerry spend their money on hothousing the better talents, hence their success at minor.
Much prefer the Dublin approach myself. As I have said repeatedly on many threads, it all comes down to whether you see mass participation as the most important thing for our national games or whether you see success for your own county as the most important thing.
That's not true about Kerry- they also spend their money on all kids. What evidence do you have they don't?
This is another thing Dubs trying to defend their advantages do. They pretend that things that are normal in every county e.g volunteering, competition existing from other sports, training of kids who are never going to be inter- county standard; are exclusive to Dublin and as such, justify their funding advantage. It's nonsense.
You realise mass participation across the country as a whole will be affected adversely if Dublin continue their financially doped success and people continue to lose interest?
What it comes down is whether you think it's good for the game for Dublin, who already have a half dozen other significant advantages, to be funded excessively to the detriment of every other county. If you're happy for this to continue and for people to lose interest and for them to dominate unfairly, just say that. But don't try and pretend there is an alignment between the interests of the rest of the country and those of Dublin.0 -
That's not true about Kerry- they also spend their money on all kids. What evidence do you have they don't?
This is another thing Dubs trying to defend their advantages do. They pretend that things that are normal in every county e.g volunteering, competition existing from other sports, training of kids who are never going to be inter- county standard; are exclusive to Dublin and as such, justify their funding advantage. It's nonsense.
You realise mass participation across the country as a whole will be affected adversely if Dublin continue their financially doped success and people continue to lose interest?
What it comes down is whether you think it's good for the game for Dublin, who already have a half dozen other significant advantages, to be funded excessively to the detriment of every other county. If you're happy for this to continue and for people to lose interest and for them to dominate unfairly, just say that. But don't try and pretend there is an alignment between the interests of the rest of the country and those of Dublin.
It will be some achievement to be 10 in a row champs of a sport that no one watches and no one cares about.0 -
That's not true about Kerry- they also spend their money on all kids. What evidence do you have they don't?
This is another thing Dubs trying to defend their advantages do. They pretend that things that are normal in every county e.g volunteering, competition existing from other sports, training of kids who are never going to be inter- county standard; are exclusive to Dublin and as such, justify their funding advantage. It's nonsense.
You realise mass participation across the country as a whole will be affected adversely if Dublin continue their financially doped success and people continue to lose interest?
What it comes down is whether you think it's good for the game for Dublin, who already have a half dozen other significant advantages, to be funded excessively to the detriment of every other county. If you're happy for this to continue and for people to lose interest and for them to dominate unfairly, just say that. But don't try and pretend there is an alignment between the interests of the rest of the country and those of Dublin.
I am fed up with posters bitter about their county's lack of success or jealous of Dublin's success coming on here trying to take money away from the mass participation of kids in our national game.
Dublin's kids need to be funded more than other counties, because there are more of them!! Simple demographics.
Yes, there was a one-off significant contribution to kick-start the process in the mid-2000s, but the latest funding allocations are much closer to the demographics. Why do you think that McKenna et al go back to 2006 and 2007 to create their graphs? Because there is no longer any great discrepancy other than the demographic one of looking after more kids.
As for Kerry, they have created these high-performance centres for kids approaching minor and have been rewarded with minor success. Dublin don't emphasise that to the same extent because the focus is on mass participation.
You see, I care most about the participation of ordinary people in our games, the county game is secondary. It doesn't matter to me whether Croke Park is full or who wins the All-Ireland, so long as the money keeps going to the grassroots as it does in Dublin. Other counties - Mayo being one example - have spent a fortune on their senior team over the last decade or so to the detriment of under-age football. Dublin are not making that mistake.0 -
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I am fed up with posters bitter about their county's lack of success or jealous of Dublin's success coming on here trying to take money away from the mass participation of kids in our national game.
Well I for one can hand on heart say I'm not jealous of Dublin in any way. Their current situation has been artificially created by sustained financial doping, while opponents are starved of resources at the same time. This was done because, despite having all the tools to dominate the gaa, the state of the game was dire in the county.
For the powers that be to need to basically rig the competition for you to win, to get you to show a decent level of interest isn't something I'd be jealous of.
It is a record to be ashamed of truth be told.0
That shouldn't take long! 
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