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Changes in the GAA - super thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,389 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Dublin has to be broken up

    I would suggest 4 counties to start with


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭EICVD


    Dublin has to be broken up

    I would suggest 4 counties to start with

    Hahahahahahaha


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Dublin has to be broken up

    I would suggest 4 counties to start with

    you could break Leinster into north and south then with 15 county football teams


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Jaden


    Dublin has to be broken up

    I would suggest 4 counties to start with

    You could also Amalgamate Munster into 3 teams. Kerry, Cork and TheRest.

    The Rest have only won one Munster in the last 80 years, clearly this lopsided competition is unfair and needs redress.

    The Munster Semi could be Cork Vs TheRest every year, with Kerry getting a bye. We could have a half-full PUC twice a year, it would be amazing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Jaden wrote: »
    You could also Amalgamate Munster into 3 teams. Kerry, Cork and TheRest.

    The Rest have only won one Munster in the last 80 years, clearly this lopsided competition is unfair and needs redress.

    The Munster Semi could be Cork Vs TheRest every year, with Kerry getting a bye. We could have a half-full PUC twice a year, it would be amazing.


    If Dublin is to be broken up, it can only be in the name of competitiveness. If that is the reason, rather than pure bitterness and jealousy of Dublin success, then amalgamations of weaker counties have to happen at the same time. Otherwise, the only ones benefitting are Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.

    Leitrim/Roscommon, Limerick/Clare and Tipperary/Waterford would add to competitiveness. Lots of other combinations in Leinster and Ulster as well.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,982 ✭✭✭threeball


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If Dublin is to be broken up, it can only be in the name of competitiveness. If that is the reason, rather than pure bitterness and jealousy of Dublin success, then amalgamations of weaker counties have to happen at the same time. Otherwise, the only ones benefitting are Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.

    Leitrim/Roscommon, Limerick/Clare and Tipperary/Waterford would add to competitiveness. Lots of other combinations in Leinster and Ulster as well.

    I've said before that all of the above needs to happen. There's far too many counties with no chance of winning anything and far too much money being spent. Counties could choose to stay separate up to minor so they have 2 development squads on the go but from there on they would have a single senior team. Laois/offaly. Westmeath/longford, Sligo/leitrim.

    It's clear Dublin needs at least two teams also, possibly 3 within 10yrs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If Dublin is to be broken up, it can only be in the name of competitiveness. If that is the reason, rather than pure bitterness and jealousy of Dublin success, then amalgamations of weaker counties have to happen at the same time. Otherwise, the only ones benefitting are Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.

    Leitrim/Roscommon, Limerick/Clare and Tipperary/Waterford would add to competitiveness. Lots of other combinations in Leinster and Ulster as well.

    If that happens I hope nobody from any of the above six counties ever darkens the door of a GAA ground again. They can play the bastardised teams in front of tumbleweed.

    This 'everyone needs to be good' crap needs binned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,982 ✭✭✭threeball


    If that happens I hope nobody from any of the above six counties ever darkens the door of a GAA ground again. They can play the bastardised teams in front of tumbleweed.

    This 'everyone needs to be good' crap needs binned.

    Why, so one or two teams can dominate the game forever more? If you were setting up a system in the morning for a sport the gaa is the last one you would copy due to the ridiculous imbalances. What other organisation would give the team with the biggest population, the biggest finances, home advantage in nearly all games and then tell everyone to lump it. Its farcical, just as it is at the other end of the scale.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    threeball wrote: »
    Why, so one or two teams can dominate the game forever more? If you were setting up a system in the morning for a sport the gaa is the last one you would copy due to the ridiculous imbalances. What other organisation would give the team with the biggest population, the biggest finances, home advantage in nearly all games and then tell everyone to lump it. Its farcical, just as it is at the other end of the scale.

    Every sport has good teams and bad teams, and bad teams still mean something to supporters. Taking their team away from them isn't the answer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog



    This 'everyone needs to be good' crap needs binned.


    Exactly.


    Since when was sport or anything else supposed to be run by this infantile Pollyanna bullcr@p?



    Jezza Corbyn for GAA President. Even the very worst will get a big trophy :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,982 ✭✭✭threeball


    Every sport has good teams and bad teams, and bad teams still mean something to supporters. Taking their team away from them isn't the answer.

    They have a system called divisions where they separate the good from the bad. They don't lump Kidderminster into the same league as Man city in the primary competition and say have at it. Plenty of clubs have merged in many sports in the pursuit of being competitive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    threeball wrote: »
    They have a system called divisions where they separate the good from the bad. They don't lump Kidderminster into the same league as Man city in the primary competition and say have at it. Plenty of clubs have merged in many sports in the pursuit of being competitive.

    Then make levels, but don't take teams away from people who have followed them for years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Exactly.


    Since when was sport or anything else supposed to be run by this infantile Pollyanna bullcr@p?



    Jezza Corbyn for GAA President. Even the very worst will get a big trophy :)

    Everyone gets a medal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,982 ✭✭✭threeball


    Then make levels, but don't take teams away from people who have followed them for years.

    There isn't enough good teams to support a competitive top level. Super 8s showed that last year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Exactly.


    Since when was sport or anything else supposed to be run by this infantile Pollyanna bullcr@p?



    Jezza Corbyn for GAA President. Even the very worst will get a big trophy :)

    Got to laugh at Dublin fans posting about that everybody can’t be good.

    Dublin lads writing books about when they went a couple of years without a Leinster title called “the chaos years”

    Just gotta laugh.

    Dublin fans are so out of touch with what normal fans go through I actually feel sorry for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Got to laugh at Dublin fans posting about that everybody can’t be good.

    Dublin lads writing books about when they went a couple of years without a Leinster title called “the chaos years”

    Just gotta laugh.

    I don't think there's anything in those books asking for Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal, Longford, Westmeath, Meath or Offaly to be divided in 2 or 4.
    Unlike the whingers nowadays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If Dublin is to be broken up, it can only be in the name of competitiveness. If that is the reason, rather than pure bitterness and jealousy of Dublin success, then amalgamations of weaker counties have to happen at the same time. Otherwise, the only ones benefitting are Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.

    Leitrim/Roscommon, Limerick/Clare and Tipperary/Waterford would add to competitiveness. Lots of other combinations in Leinster and Ulster as well.

    Firstly Clare are going ok in division 2, Roscommon are in Division 1 so really Cork should be amalgamating with Limerick?
    Amalgamating Leitrim with Roscommon would do nothing to improve Roscommon at the moment with all due respect to Leitrim. Maybe 2 of the Leitrim team would make Roscommons first 15 at the moment and the number has been dwindling over the past 25 years. What needs to happen is more support for those teams and establishing a level playing field .

    The talk of Dublin being broken up has been flagged for a long time and has nothing to do with "dominance".
    It's to do with managing the population we have where the population of Dublin and to a lesser extent the surrounding counties, Cork and Galway are increasing much quicker than the other counties.

    Personally its not really going to bother me either way but it could lead to Dublin being a victim of its own success.

    the real issue is income. Dublin have a huge population advantage and the GAA as a whole should at the very least be ensuring that they who can pay their own way should do so.

    It should be more stringent and allow say 500k per county per year per senior team and have strict allocations on what that is spent on as well as an extra 2k per week + 2k per fixture after July 1st. Come up with figures for U21 and minor teams as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    threeball wrote: »
    There isn't enough good teams to support a competitive top level. Super 8s showed that last year.

    Then teams need to get better or be one of the bad teams. Like I said, this isn't a school sports day with handouts for special little Tommy for taking part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,982 ✭✭✭threeball


    Then teams need to get better or be one of the bad teams. Like I said, this isn't a school sports day with handouts for special little Tommy for taking part.

    Utter sh1te. Teams need to get better, What a crock. How do you get better when half the club teams in Dublin have a bigger pick than Leitrim. What does it then say than Leitrim would beat most if not all of those club teams. Perhaps they're overacheiving based on their current resources.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    I don't think there's anything in those books asking for Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal, Longford, Westmeath, Meath or Offaly to be divided in 2 or 4.
    Unlike the whingers nowadays.

    Maybe because there's a lot of significant differences between all those teams and Dublin?

    Most unfairly, Dublin are completely overfunded compared to every other county. Both centrally and from sponsorship money.

    Combine that with population advantage, playing all games at home, less need to emigrate and there's a good chance Dublin dominance will continue indefinitely, to the long term detriment of the sport.

    The funding needs to be equalised first. Other things can follow on from there. Dublin will need to be split as well.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Then teams need to get better or be one of the bad teams. Like I said, this isn't a school sports day with handouts for special little Tommy for taking part.

    Maybe if they're funded to the same level that Dublin are, and enjoy some of the other advantages that Dublin do, it might be possible for them to 'get better'.

    What do you propose should be done about the overfunding of Dublin compared to other counties?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    Maybe if they're funded to the same level that Dublin are, and enjoy some of the other advantages that Dublin do, it might be possible for them to 'get better'.

    What do you propose should be done about the overfunding of Dublin compared to other counties?

    That does need to change, yes. Doesn't mean lazy counties should sit back and wait in the hope that Dublin, or anyone else, drops back to their level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    Maybe because there's a lot of significant differences between all those teams and Dublin?

    Most unfairly, Dublin are completely overfunded compared to every other county. Both centrally and from sponsorship money.

    Combine that with population advantage, playing all games at home, less need to emigrate and there's a good chance Dublin dominance will continue indefinitely, to the long term detriment of the sport.

    The funding needs to be equalised first. Other things can follow on from there. Dublin will need to be split as well.

    Perhaps Donegal might put together some sort of motion for all of the above for next years Congress.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Dublin has to be broken up

    I would suggest 4 counties to start with
    No it doesnt. You have to look at issues amongst many other counties first and spliting in 4? That just sounds like jealousy in a major way.
    Jaden wrote: »
    You could also Amalgamate Munster into 3 teams. Kerry, Cork and TheRest.

    The Rest have only won one Munster in the last 80 years, clearly this lopsided competition is unfair and needs redress.

    The Munster Semi could be Cork Vs TheRest every year, with Kerry getting a bye. We could have a half-full PUC twice a year, it would be amazing.
    Or you just have divisions of league as main competition and cup as extra
    threeball wrote: »
    I've said before that all of the above needs to happen. There's far too many counties with no chance of winning anything and far too much money being spent. Counties could choose to stay separate up to minor so they have 2 development squads on the go but from there on they would have a single senior team. Laois/offaly. Westmeath/longford, Sligo/leitrim.

    It's clear Dublin needs at least two teams also, possibly 3 within 10yrs.
    It isnt clear at all.
    Yes many counties who wont win the major competitions and thats why the competition structures should change. There doesnt need to be combined inter county squads at senior just provide more levels within the championship for all teams.
    threeball wrote: »
    There isn't enough good teams to support a competitive top level. Super 8s showed that last year.
    Yes there is. Look at national league. 4 divisions of 8. Teams move up/down on meteocratic basis. Division 1 is more than competitive
    gaffer91 wrote: »
    Maybe because there's a lot of significant differences between all those teams and Dublin?

    Most unfairly, Dublin are completely overfunded compared to every other county. Both centrally and from sponsorship money.

    Combine that with population advantage, playing all games at home, less need to emigrate and there's a good chance Dublin dominance will continue indefinitely, to the long term detriment of the sport.

    The funding needs to be equalised first. Other things can follow on from there. Dublin will need to be split as well.
    Equalised how? And what happens if Dublin were to split. Theyd still be dominating Leinster and be winning all irelands so what good does that do for anyone?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    That does need to change, yes. Doesn't mean lazy counties should sit back and wait in the hope that Dublin, or anyone else, drops back to their level.

    You are aware that money is an important factor in success in sports in the 21st century? I'm aware this is often shocking news to blinkered Dubs.

    If the country board, management, players etc of Kildare or Meath, say, didn't put a foot wrong and every decision they took in relation to Gaelic Football was the correct one for the next few years, the chances they have of making an impact on Dublin's dominance are minuscule until all of Dublin's unfair advantages are addressed.
    No it doesnt. You have to look at issues amongst many other counties first and spliting in 4? That just sounds like jealousy in a major way.

    What if they've looked at the issues affecting other counties and come to the conclusion the biggest issue is in fact Dublin?
    Equalised how? And what happens if Dublin were to split. Theyd still be dominating Leinster and be winning all irelands so what good does that do for anyone?

    There's a lot of ways- for one, the massive funding bump Dublin received (from both HQ and the government of the day) from mid to late 2000s needs to be addressed and their funding reduced to a level where long term averages are the same, or close to it, for all counties.

    All sponsorship funding could be centrally pooled so that it isn't just Dublin benefiting from their "partners". There are many ways to make things fairer.

    Dublin didn't completely dominate Leinster, despite their historical in-built advantages, until the funding came along. I agree that they have destroyed Leinster as a competitive competition since then and will likely do the same with the All-Ireland series if he current state of affairs is allowed to continue.

    I agree if Dublin were split, the individual teams would still be competitive. But no individual one would be dominant to the same extent so it would still be progress.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    You are aware that money is an important factor in success in sports in the 21st century? I'm aware this is often shocking news to blinkered Dubs.

    If the country board, management, players etc of Kildare or Meath, say, didn't put a foot wrong and every decision they took in relation to Gaelic Football was the correct one for the next few years, the chances they have of making an impact on Dublin's dominance are minuscule until all of Dublin's unfair advantages are addressed
    Money is a factor. But money doesnt win you trophies. It can help but if it was as important as some make it out then the richest sides would always be winning which is far from the case.
    What if they've looked at the issues affecting other counties and come to the conclusion the biggest issue is in fact Dublin?
    It isnt Dublin though. Then look at Leinster and underage competitions and lack of success for some counties.
    There's a lot of ways- for one, the massive funding bump Dublin received (from both HQ and the government of the day) from mid to late 2000s needs to be addressed and their funding reduced to a level where long term averages are the same, or close to it, for all counties.

    All sponsorship funding could be centrally pooled so that it isn't just Dublin benefiting from their "partners". There are many ways to make things fairer.

    Dublin didn't completely dominate Leinster, despite their historical in-built advantages, until the funding came along. I agree that they have destroyed Leinster as a competitive competition since then and will likely do the same with the All-Ireland series if he current state of affairs is allowed to continue.

    I agree if Dublin were split, the individual teams would still be competitive. But no individual one would be dominant to the same extent so it would still be progress.
    How would you distribute sponsorship funding then if it is to be centrally pooled. We cant ever expect or should expect funding to be equal especially when you are talking about development officers etc and we have 1 county that has 20% of population of entire country and the sport is now following professional sport thinking and moving towards pro sport in some ways.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Money is a factor. But money doesnt win you trophies. It can help but if it was as important as some make it out then the richest sides would always be winning which is far from the case.

    It isnt Dublin though. Then look at Leinster and underage competitions and lack of success for some counties.

    How would you distribute sponsorship funding then if it is to be centrally pooled. We cant ever expect or should expect funding to be equal especially when you are talking about development officers etc and we have 1 county that has 20% of population of entire country and the sport is now following professional sport thinking and moving towards pro sport in some ways.

    Money doesn't win you trophies? :D Please tell me you're joking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Money is a factor. But money doesnt win you trophies. It can help but if it was as important as some make it out then the richest sides would always be winning which is far from the case.

    Get real. Money helps you find players and develop them to a far greater extent than you would otherwise. So yes, money does win you trophies.

    I'll point out as well that Dublin's funding increase correlated with Leinster dominance and subsequent All- Ireland dominance. But you probably think that was just coincidence.

    If you think it doesn't matter then I'm sure you won't mind it being withdrawn then.

    Just so you're aware- I started a thread recently which was shut down for some reason. A lot of the nonsense arguments you're putting forward have already been debunked on that- you might do yourself a favour and have a read of it.
    It isnt Dublin though. Then look at Leinster and underage competitions and lack of success for some counties.

    It is Dublin though. Your second sentence is incoherent gibberish and I don't know what point you're trying to make.

    How would you distribute sponsorship funding then if it is to be centrally pooled. We cant ever expect or should expect funding to be equal especially when you are talking about development officers etc and we have 1 county that has 20% of population of entire country and the sport is now following professional sport thinking and moving towards pro sport in some ways.

    I haven't typed out a policy document or proposal- it's just a broad outline. It's wouldn't be hard to sort out the details once the agreement is made in principle.

    We can definitely expect per capita funding to be equalised. That's not an unreasonable demand at all. Also Dublin will also have to be underfunded for many years to equalise the gap in their long term funding average vs everyone elses. But that's just rectifying the unfairness that's been going on for the last 15 years or so.

    The only professional outfit in the sport currently is Dublin- they're helped significantly by all the extra money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭Good loser


    Dublin's advantages are serious in the current arrangements.
    They need to be urgently addressed or Gaelic Football will go to the dogs.
    I'm with gaffer on the need for changes!


    Perhaps transfers could help as happened in rugby.
    Or something like the draft in US football.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    Get real. Money helps you find players and develop them to a far greater extent than you would otherwise. So yes, money does win you trophies.

    I'll point out as well that Dublin's funding increase correlated with Leinster dominance and subsequent All- Ireland dominance. But you probably think that was just coincidence.
    Too many people are putting the issue on Dublin and finance when its so much more than that. Other counties have dropped off considerably. Look at number of counties from Leinster in division1/2 of national league.

    Just so you're aware- I started a thread recently which was shut down for some reason. A lot of the nonsense arguments you're putting forward have already been debunked on that- you might do yourself a favour and have a read of it.
    Its not gibberish. Most of the normal challengers to Dublin are just not good enough.
    I haven't typed out a policy document or proposal- it's just a broad outline. It's wouldn't be hard to sort out the details once the agreement is made in principle.

    We can definitely expect per capita funding to be equalised. That's not an unreasonable demand at all. Also Dublin will also have to be underfunded for many years to equalise the gap in their long term funding average vs everyone elses. But that's just rectifying the unfairness that's been going on for the last 15 years or so.

    The only professional outfit in the sport currently is Dublin- they're helped significantly by all the extra money.
    Dublin are in no way professional though. Very hard to say they are.
    Per capita funding doesnt take into account so many other factors
    Good loser wrote: »
    Dublin's advantages are serious in the current arrangements.
    They need to be urgently addressed or Gaelic Football will go to the dogs.
    I'm with gaffer on the need for changes!

    Perhaps transfers could help as happened in rugby.
    Or something like the draft in US football.
    transfers like what in rugby? How do you open up transfer system. Draft from where? In American football they draft from colleges and players wont have ties to a team apart from supporting them. Its not the same in gaelic where players are representing counties from age of 14.


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