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Changes in the GAA - super thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Having encountered me after multiple pints, and having to deal with me telling him he is the greatest person of all time he may or may not be a great manager but he is a gentleman


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Let’s see Gavin manage a mediocre team before proclaiming him up there with the GREAT managers.

    Let's see you troll a mediocre thread before we proclaim you a great troll.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    Lifetime ban for this nonsense- pathetic attempt at being a wind up merchant.

    Yes, unfortunately, he is a great manager.

    If you aren’t trying to wind people up then you just have a very poor understanding of what management and achievement in general entails.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    dunnerc wrote: »
    And another anti Dublin thread , jesus wept .

    I wouldn’t call this an anti Dublin thread- I’d call this a stupid thread.

    I’m anti Dublin and I can see that is ridiculous! On the other hand, a person who is .... might deem this worthy of a thread


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    I’m anti Dublin and I can see that is ridiculous! L

    You've just the one but, I've 7 anties from Dublin Gill, and yes one of them is an Anti Mary

    I see only three people were named Mary last year, the name is going extinct in Ireland, I guess there will be a significant impact on the Canary population with their habitat disappearing, they will probably all move to Anti Dublin's drawers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭sweeneed


    Let’s see Gavin manage a mediocre team before proclaiming him up there with the GREAT managers.

    My suspicion is he’s a very average manager due to the crazy level of financial investment given to Dublin gaa.

    I doubt he’ll ever willingly take on an average team so that we can realistically judge him-emperor new clothes type of scenario?

    But in saying that I would love to see how he gets on.

    What do you think?

    who would you put down in this category of great managers? did they all manager mediocre teams to success?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭ready4liftoff


    After careful thinking, I feel that something drastic should happen in relation to the masters fixtures plan. In my opinion, there are way too many games played in the winter/early Spring and too few games played in late Spring/Summer. So how do we maximize more game opportunities in the summer and reducing the amount of games in the winter, which will benefit the welfare of players throughout the country, that are being flogged to death with hard training at this time of year traditionally. This is my plan for 2020 and beyond.

    Following the conclusion of the inter-county All-Ireland hurling and football championships, no games whether there would be challenge of any pre-season tournament matches should take place until January 1st at the earliest. Inter-county collective training should not take place for teams who qualify for Super 8's in football and beyond, and for inter-county hurling teams who qualify for the quarter-finals and beyond, until January 15th. Other teams that are knocked out earlier in their respective championship, cannot begin collective training until January 1st.

    Next to the fixtures. The GAA should ban all inter-county pre-season competitions. The Sigerson and Fitzgibbon Cups 3rd level competitions should continue and conclude before the National League season. The National League season should begin on the final weekend of February for NFL Divisions 3 and 4 and NHL Divisions 2A, 2B, 3A and 3B. That would give the weaker counties a chance to showcase their talents and gain much needed publicity in the national media, that in turn should increase attendances for those matches that weekend. The other divisions in the National Leagues would begin a week later. The conclusion of the National Leagues should take place no later than May bank holiday weekend. In fact both NFL finals and NHL Division 1 finals would be played on that weekend. All knock-out games in both competitions must go a replay if the match ends in a tie after the 1st period of extra-time. No free-taking or penalty shoot outs!

    So onto the championship season. The preliminary rounds of the provincial football championship should begin on the 3rd weekend of May. The round robin Munster and Leinster hurling championships would begin the following weekend. In those intervening weeks preceding the start of the championships, players from all inter-county hurling and football panels, except those that have not played a full game in any NHL of NFL games, cannot play with their clubs, if county boards wish to play any club games in that period. All provincial inter-county championships of both codes should conclude no later than the 3rd weekend of July. I would discontinue the Super 8's in football.

    My solution to the conclusion of the All-Ireland championships would be this. In football reinstate the quarter-finals and continue with the qualifiers. I don't agree with a two tiered All-Ireland football championship, for the simple reason that players from those weaker counties won't agree with such a structure. In Hurling the same structure has been well served and should continue as it is. The All-Ireland championships should come to an end by the second week of September for the football and the week before for the hurling championship.

    January 1st - Start of inter-county collective training for teams that were not involved in the knock-out stages of the All-Ireland hurling and football championships.

    January 15th - All teams that qualified for the the knock-out stages of the All-Ireland championship can commence inter-county training.

    2nd week of January - start of Sigerson, Fitzgibbon and other 3rd level competitions with all competitions to end by the 3rd weekend of February.

    Final weekend of February - start of NFL divisions 3 and 4 and NHL divisions 2a, 2b, 3a and 3b.

    1st weekend of March - other NFL and NHL divisions to start.

    May bank holiday weekend - NFL and NHL conclude

    3rd weekend of May - start of preliminary provincial football championship rounds

    final weekend of May - start of hurling championships

    3rd weekend of July - conclusion of provincial championships of both codes

    final weekend of July - All-Ireland hurling 1/4 finals

    August bank holiday weekend - All Ireland football 1/4 finals

    2nd weekend of August - All Ireland hurling semi-finals

    3rd weekend of August - All Ireland football semi-finals

    1st weekend of September - All Ireland hurling final

    2nd weekend of September - All Ireland football final.

    Beyond - conclusion of county and provincial club championships.

    What do other posters think about that plan? It has a fine balance between playing and rest time for inter county players. I know it may not be perfect. But by starting inter-county collective training until much later, the national league beginning 4 weeks later than in 2019 and banning all inter-county pre-season competitions I hope will help players give certainty into the future. I look forward to other posters response. One thing is for certain though. The status quo is not working for players and something must be done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,233 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Great Idea no room for club championships. We will have 4-8 great years and no players after that. Another brain fart from someone not involved at club level that just wants to watch inter county games.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭ready4liftoff


    Great Idea no room for club championships. We will have 4-8 great years and no players after that. Another brain fart from someone not involved at club level that just wants to watch inter county games.

    Excuse me. I love the club game. Show me your proposals on how to protect the club game and the club player before criticizing my proposals will you?

    In fact my idea is for club leagues to have bonus points for teams that win a match, minus players involved in inter-county panels. Preferably give 4 points for a win minus inter-county players and 2 points for a win, with the involvement of inter-county players. That should go someway of dealing with the club league fixtures.

    What about the club championship then. Personally last year's club month in April has had no benefit in relation to fixture congestion. Only Waterford, who have had major issues in finishing senior club championships in time in the past were the only real winners in that their football champions could compete in Munster unlike in 2017. However The Nire had only a week to prepare, for their 1st round game against Adare.

    I firmly believe that by giving added incentives like giving bonus points for teams minus their inter-county panel for club league games is the way forward for all counties. Yes it won't solve all the issues that the club player has to face. But at least it will give clubs an opportunity to give all players involved in the club panel a chance to play matches and will be good for management that can build up a panel beyond the first 15.

    I hope that you understand that I'm not anti-club at all. In fact it is very much the opposite. Last year I went to over 12 matches in both hurling and football club championship in my native Clare. I loved every minute of it. I look forward to hearing your proposals on how to ensure that fewer inter-county matches are played during the winter and for increased playing opportunities for club players around the country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭ready4liftoff


    If club month is to be successful, then what should be done is do what Kerry did in 2018 and run the intermediate and junior club football championships early in the year. One example would be Kilcummin won the Kerry intermediate club title in April and went on to win the Munster intermediate club championship later on in November. Those teams are less likely to have players involved in inter-county panels, so if possible start those championships around St Patricks Day time and complete them by the end of April and then run the club leagues minus the inter-county players thereafter, with the incentive of extra points for teams winning minus their inter-county contingent.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Having a six month gap between county and AI championships as in example is hardly the way to go!

    There is no reason that 90% of club adult games should not be scheduled at start of year, spread through the year with a break in late July/early August perhaps and postponements only for genuine reasons rather than "oh a few of the lads are going to a stag in Warsaw."

    Club month was pretty much a disaster this year as most counties did not bother making the effort. Curiously, it was counties that are more likely to be involved at the business end of the championship who did make a go of it.

    Take from that what you will.

    I love the club scene but one of the implications of the club association - what happened to it by the way? - was that the Galway hurlers or the Dublin footballers were somehow ruining the lives of Junior C players!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭Prop Joe


    Until the GAA sit down and decide what format the new all ireland series are going to be a defined calendar is near impossible?
    Will the Super8's last? Will there be a two tier? What format is the Joe McD going to be ran off in future?

    Each county has different Club needs,A county like Monaghan/Tyrone would plan for their teams to be in the championship later than most and have very little hurling to worry about whereas counties such as Offaly who might be out earlier but have dual codes to worry about.

    In my opinion there are is only one major question to ask before any re-scheduling takes place

    In reality what do club players want? and then we can structure in the intercounty season around that?

    Do club players want a 10 month season?

    Do club players want to play without county players?

    Do county players want to play club while they are involved with their inter county team?

    Do clubs want to play in the summer without J1's?

    Do clubs want to play alot in the Spring and Autumn and take the summer off?

    If we can get a bit of clarity on that i think it would be very easy to schedule then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,233 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    ready4liftoff, your proposals will see the whole year from January to the middle of September dedicated to inter county football and hurling. There would be no county players available to a club until there county exited from competition's. Bouus points are of no benefit to a club if you are knocked out of competitions because of these county players being unavailable to them for matches. It would be especially punitive to clubs who have players on both football and hurling panels as well as U21 players. It would also be punitive smaller clubs in intermediate and junior competitions that have county players.

    You speak about Waterford they were out of the championship by the end of June in hurling and early July in football. Limerick won the Hurling but were still capable of finishing there football and hurling competitions at and before Waterford. Limerick plays a round robin structure in football and hurling at championship and still managed to finish competitions ahead of some counties. The reason is they play two rounds of football and hurling in April.

    After only one year of the new structure everybody expects for all issues to be resolved. Croke Park need to send a shot across the bows of all County boards this year. Any collective training, holidays etc and a loss of home advantage in championship as well as point deduction for AIL would focus minds. Club players know what they want but too many people not involved at club want everything to resolve around inter county games.

    Your proposal could also see the decimation of the second sport in certain counties. Why play football with Limerick or Waterford and Hurling with Kerry or Down if it punishes your club which is competitive within the county. As well weaker county could struggle as player for these counties could see a situation where there clubs players see there clubs could be competitive within the county structure or even beyond it in the inter county club competitions if they stopped representing there county as players.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Why is there so much tinkering with the rules in GAA, particularly in the football? Hardly a year has passed by recently without a round of changes/ discussion of changes etc etc. These fairly constant changes point to real issues in the game and a lack of stability. You'd think after 100 years and more that the game would have settled down and that a balance would have been found. You don't see regular changes like this in many other sporting codes. Something fundamentally wrong IMHO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Why is there so much tinkering with the rules in GAA, particularly in the football? Hardly a year has passed by recently without a round of changes/ discussion of changes etc etc. These fairly constant changes point to real issues in the game and a lack of stability. You'd think after 100 years and more that the game would have settled down and that a balance would have been found. You don't see regular changes like this in many other sporting codes. Something fundamentally wrong IMHO.
    You always see changes in the laws in rugby. Every season there is tweaks or clarifications then every few years there is changes.
    There is so much tinkering because of the real issues in the game blanket defence etc. I dont think that a balance should have been found simply because 100 years etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    You always see changes in the laws in rugby. Every season there is tweaks or clarifications then every few years there is changes.
    There is so much tinkering because of the real issues in the game blanket defence etc. I dont think that a balance should have been found simply because 100 years etc

    Well then there is a fundamental problem - the rules that allow for balance between attack & defence in football are inadequate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Two games I saw were dogs' dinners.

    Mayo and Rossies had excuse I suppose of gale force wind but the team with the wind still insisted on short hand passing the length of the pitch!

    Dublin just kept the ball for the time the sin bin lasted and Monaghan called a mark every time they caught the ball inside the 40. Dreadful sh1te.

    Dublin/Carlow hurling game was played in downpour on ploughed field and was ten times the entertainment value.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,654 ✭✭✭elefant


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Two games I saw were dogs' dinners.

    Mayo and Rossies had excuse I suppose of gale force wind but the team with the wind still insisted on short hand passing the length of the pitch!

    Dublin just kept the ball for the time the sin bin lasted and Monaghan called a mark every time they caught the ball inside the 40. Dreadful sh1te.

    Dublin/Carlow hurling game was played in downpour on ploughed field and was ten times the entertainment value.

    I found the Dublin Monaghan game very enjoyable. Most reaction I've heard about that game has been positive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    For the novelty value of Dublin being beaten and score being close perhaps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,233 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Why is there so much tinkering with the rules in GAA, particularly in the football? Hardly a year has passed by recently without a round of changes/ discussion of changes etc etc. These fairly constant changes point to real issues in the game and a lack of stability. You'd think after 100 years and more that the game would have settled down and that a balance would have been found. You don't see regular changes like this in many other sporting codes. Something fundamentally wrong IMHO.

    Rugby had the same issues 10-15 years ago over 25 years the try was upped from 3 points to 5 points. Hiding the ball in the ruck for 3-4 minutes was stopped, profession fouls caused the sin bin to be introduced. Gaelic football is becoming unwatchable. Too much control of the rules is being prevented by County managers. We need meaningful changes that will punish packed defences and professional fouls. Watching the Kerry/Tyrone game yesterday in the first half Tyrone had hardly two attacks on the Kerry goals. They tended to foul Kerry players in Kerry own half when there was a turnover to prevent quick Kerry breaks. Midway through the second half a Tyrone prevent a quick Kerry kickout and Ref and linesmen ignored it. All this plays into blanket defence. For all that it was a bit intriguing to watch due to dry summer and autumn underfoot conditions were very good. Ball was slippy but there was virtually no wind. Tyrone was playing to keep scoring low and hoping for a goal to win the game.

    The GAA needs to bite the bullet forget about trialing rule changes as managers want them controlled and will not implement them in general in League if they are not being used for championship. All the kickouts seems to be out virtually at the 21 meter line this helped goalie's in the short kickouts. Bring in the longer kickouts and the offensive mark and change handpass rule and it might become more entertaining but coaches know they will have less control about the way the game plays out

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Would agree with most of what you say but you can see that the better teams will use the offensive mark and the sin bin to slow things down. Which you can't blame them for if that is what the rules allow. Dublin were the offenders for the first, back passing to the goalkeeper to run the sin bin clock down, and Monaghan used the mark to stop play for free kicks.

    The real problem is attitude and there were examples of that in both games. The Roscommon player who committed the eye gouge hit the ground like a sack of spuds holding his face when no Mayo player went near his face! McCarron did the same after kneeing a Dublin player in the head.

    Once you have that sort of cowardly bollix, managers who encourage it, and refs and officials afraid to call it, then games will indeed become terrible spectacles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    I am not a big fan of changing the rules of either football or hurling.
    Anyone who seen or played a game with the handpass rules changes, and had Aon Do Tri, repeated over and over again, could not like it, forcing some token 5m foot pass is not what it is meant for, but it is Football not Handball / Netball ! hopefully the game can be improved and have more long foot passes and fielding..

    The GAA has betrayed the ordinary fan, by selling out and having games exclusively on SKY!
    and now they are hiking the prices...


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    petronius wrote: »
    I am not a big fan of changing the rules of either football or hurling.
    Anyone who seen or played a game with the handpass rules changes, and had Aon Do Tri, repeated over and over again, could not like it, forcing some token 5m foot pass is not what it is meant for, but it is Football not Handball / Netball ! hopefully the game can be improved and have more long foot passes and fielding..

    The GAA has betrayed the ordinary fan, by selling out and having games exclusively on SKY!
    and now they are hiking the prices...
    What exactly is an "ordinary fan"? What are the other types of fan?
    It isnt selling out by getting the best deal for your organisation and therefore is extra money to be reinvested to all sectors of the organisation
    You need to constantly look to change rules in order to improve a sport.
    Some will work others wont. The handpass rule had to come in considering the way the sport has become recently


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭Deco99


    Does anyone know what the rule is for standing in front of a free kick? Opposition have to be back 13 yards but what about same team if they do not touch ball? Example 13 yard free, the defending team lines the goal. Can the attacking team stand players in front of them outside small square to obscure sight of ball?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Deco99 wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the rule is for standing in front of a free kick? Opposition have to be back 13 yards but what about same team if they do not touch ball? Example 13 yard free, the defending team lines the goal. Can the attacking team stand players in front of them outside small square to obscure sight of ball?

    By rights there should be a circle of 13 metres radius with the free taker at the centre. There shouldn't be any player any closer than that.
    All players except the player taking the free kick shall be at least 13m from where the free kick is awarded, or, all players except those two contesting the throw-in shall be at least 13m from where the throwin is awarded.

    Page 67 of the rule book

    https://res.cloudinary.com/dvrbaruzq/image/upload/exnejkiqisbjvu1znpde.pdf

    The same rule is supposed to apply in relation to throw balls but the 13 metre limit is just a disaster in terms of it's enforcement.

    I think the GAA could make things far easier for referees by ammending the rule for throw balls to 20 metres from the throw-in point. As it is the vast majority of the time there are usually players closer than the 13 metres for throw-ins and you regularly have the case that there is a swarm of players within 5 metres of the throw-ball. If the rule was ammended so that all players bar the 2 contesting the ball had to stay back 20 metres until one of the two players contesting it touched it, it would lead to less of the scrums/unseemly play that result from throw-balls. A seriously high percentage of throw-balls simply lead to frees with the next 5 seconds of the throw-in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Why do boards.ie always shut down debates on dublin’s funding and cite that this is the thread it should be raised in.

    It’s a hot button issue but boards have shutdown about 5 threads discussing it...does that not tell mods that boardsies want to discuss it. Seems very odd.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Why do boards.ie always shut down debates on dublin’s funding and cite that this is the thread it should be raised in.

    It’s a hot button issue but boards have shutdown about 5 threads discussing it...does that not tell mods that boardsies want to discuss it. Seems very odd.

    5 threads? Really? I don't get it. What was wrong with that thread that got closed? Someone came in and said there should be a thread for the loonies and then it got closed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Perifect wrote: »
    5 threads? Really? I don't get it. What was wrong with that thread that got closed? Someone came in and said there should be a thread for the loonies and then it got closed.

    Apparently it was going around in circles. Which having scanned through it is total BS. Someone had just posted the actual Dublin accounts which is key to the whole thing.

    The 2.4 million (or whatever it is) from the SRC does not include any money from the government because this money ended around 2010. That money is a combination of the grants from Croke Park and money from Dublin clubs to the Dublin county board to pay for the coaches. So Dublin in fairness match the money they get from Croke Park with their own funds with the clubs paying for it as they get the benefit of it.


    I blogged about it here if you wish to read - https://veryintobloggingveryintonewmedia.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/dublin-gaa-finances-under-the-microscope/

    The main point from the accounts is just how little fundraising they do- 161k over 3 years. Mind boggling low numbers and what people should really be kicking up a stink about.

    Why do Dublin get so much from Croke when the raise so little themselves from their supporters?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Apparently it was going around in circles. Which having scanned through it is total BS. Someone had just posted the actual Dublin accounts which is key to the whole thing.

    The 2.4 million (or whatever it is) from the SRC does not include any money from the government because this money ended around 2010. That money is a combination of the grants from Croke Park and money from Dublin clubs to the Dublin county board to pay for the coaches. So Dublin in fairness match the money they get from Croke Park with their own funds with the clubs paying for it as they get the benefit of it.


    I blogged about it here if you wish to read - https://veryintobloggingveryintonewmedia.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/dublin-gaa-finances-under-the-microscope/

    The main point from the accounts is just how little fundraising they do- 161k over 3 years. Mind boggling low numbers and what people should really be kicking up a stink about.

    Why do Dublin get so much from Croke when the raise so little themselves from their supporters?

    Ok, thanks very much. Finally some answers! So the government funding ended in 2010, does that mean Dublin get less now that then? It's 2.7 million so 1.35 million comes from Croke Park and 1.35 million from clubs? Yes, that fundraising number is very low. I suppose they have a high level of sponsorship money also.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Perifect wrote: »
    Ok, thanks very much. Finally some answers! So the government funding ended in 2010, does that mean Dublin get less now that then? It's 2.7 million so 1.35 million comes from Croke Park and 1.35 million from clubs? Yes, that fundraising number is very low. I suppose they have a high level of sponsorship money also.

    They got 5 million from the government. 1 million a year. Great boost to their coffers. Ended around 2010.

    Yes half the money comes from the GAA, half from the clubs.

    You asked where the 2.1 million spent goes. That would be the salaries of the development officers or the coaches basically.

    Dublin have a great level of commericial income coming but they’re greatest income source is still the GAA.

    Really the question should be asked; since the GAA have to fund every county’s grassroots coaching in Ireland, would they not suggest to Dublin to increase their level of fundraising so they don’t have to take money from the national coaching pot.

    That question is yet to be asked.


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