Changes in the GAA - super thread

dunnerc

Farawayhome wrote: »

It gives far more opportunity. How could it not? Instead of just say 30 who get on an underage panel now, there will be 120 in the 4 counties. It's important for the GAA to be strong in our capital and this would be a great way of ensuring that.
Just like every other county, Dublin will have to go with the will of the collective. I think instead of just closing their ears to it, the Dublin county board should look at the benefits of this and join the discussion.

Is that you Colm ? Dublin is not for splitting.

Farawayhome

dunnerc wrote: »

Your not listening , Dublin is not for splitting , its not gonna happen ever , the people of Dublin will never ever accept a split, end of.

As I said, Dublin will have to go with the democratic wishes of the association as a whole. It's the only way it can work. There's definite momentum behind the movement to split Dublin, let's not forget that it's an old idea and one the GAA have backed. If you look at the population predictions for the near future, this is inevitable.

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

Guess what ! we don't care

Oh but you do...
It is funny though, if the rest if the gaa fraternity took this attitude when dublin came with cap in hand looking for handouts, this team would never have came to be...

ToBeFrank123

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What is fair funding though? Dublin get lot more in game development due to more people etc.

Dublin have 25% more registered GAA players than Cork yet receive something like 1000% more funding from the GAA than Cork.

There's clearly something amiss there. Its not related solely to more people. The population of Dublin is about 2.5 times that of Cork. So why are Dublin getting at least 10 times the funding?

dunnerc

Farawayhome wrote: »

As I said, Dublin will have to go with the democratic wishes of the association as a whole. It's the only way it can work. There's definite momentum behind the movement to split Dublin, let's not forget that it's an old idea and one the GAA have backed. If you look at the population predictions for the near future, this is inevitable.

Rubbish Dublin will not be dictated to by anyone , without Dublin nothing will work , Dublin will not be split .

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Oh but you do...
It is funny though, if the rest if the gaa fraternity took this attitude when dublin came with cap in hand looking for handouts, this team would never have came to be...

Nonsense , and we don't care .

Farawayhome

dunnerc wrote: »

Rubbish Dublin will not be dictated to by anyone , without Dublin nothing will work , Dublin will not be split .

We're a democratic organisation so you are free to express your views as our Dublin county board delegates but if the overall view is that splitting Dublin would be beneficial to the health of the GAA, then that's what will happen.

dunnerc

Farawayhome wrote: »

We're a democratic organisation so you are free to express your views as our Dublin county board delegates but if the overall view is that splitting Dublin would be beneficial to the health of the GAA, then that's what will happen.

Your entitled to your opinion , but Dublin will net be split , the people of Dublin will never accept it .

Farawayhome

dunnerc wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion , but Dublin will net be split , the people of Dublin will never accept it .

Well, the discussion is ongoing. I know it's hard to accept but in fairness, no one forced the Dublin county board to take the money, no one put a gun to their heads, they knew this day would come.

ToBeFrank123

dunnerc wrote: »

Rubbish Dublin will not be dictated to by anyone , without Dublin nothing will work , Dublin will not be split .

Splitting Dublin is not the answer.

Giving equitable funding is the answer. Even with equitable funding Dublin should still dominate give the natural advantages they enjoy.

But the fact Dublin received 1300% more funding than Cork over 10 years despite having only a small fraction more registered players is outrageous and completely undermines any credibility in the competition.

The All Ireland is no longer a serious competition. The unfortunate thing is the GAA have destroyed their sport and haven't the balls to fix it.

Its hard to begrudge the winners of a joke competition!

patsman07

I think the biggest mistake that was ever made was introducing the back door system. It was originally sold as giving weaker counties more championship matches, however most weaker counties find that some on their panels go abroad once they are knocked out of their provincial championships. The provincial championship is all that weaker counties can hope to do well in.

Since the stronger counties are going to have a second chance through the back door, it is worth their while to invest the time, money and effort we are currently seeing. The back door has encouraged more professional set ups.
The back door system began in 2001. Below I've listed the number of different provincial winners and who won the most provincial championships in the 18 years since the back door was introduced and in the 18 years before it was introduced.

Since back door 2001: 1983-2000.

Leinster: 4 winners, 14 by Dublin. 4 winners, 8 by Dublin

Ulster: 4 winners, 7 by Tyrone. 6 winners, 5 by Tyrone.

Connacht: 4 winners, 8 by Mayo. 4 winners, 8 by Mayo.

Munster: 2 winners, 13 by Kerry. 3 winners, 9 by Cork.

The problem is only going to get worse with the Super 8's.

dunnerc

Farawayhome wrote: »

Well, the discussion is ongoing. I know it's hard to accept but in fairness, no one forced the Dublin county board to take the money, no one put a gun to their heads, they knew this day would come.

The day has not come , not in your lifetime anyway:D Dublin is not for splitting .

dunnerc

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Splitting Dublin is not the answer.

Giving equitable funding is the answer. Even with equitable funding Dublin should still dominate give the natural advantages they enjoy.

But the fact Dublin received 1300% more funding than Cork over 10 years despite having only a small fraction more registered players is outrageous and completely undermines any credibility in the competition.

The All Ireland is no longer a serious competition. The unfortunate thing is the GAA have destroyed their sport and haven't the balls to fix it.

Its hard to begrudge the winners of a joke competition!

Agreed funding has been outrageous and totally unfair , punishing Dublin by splitting is nonsensical .

Farawayhome

dunnerc wrote: »

The day has not come , not in your lifetime anyway:D Dublin is not for splitting .

Guess you'll have to wait and see.

For everyone else, the conversation will continue. In the proposal, every county gets fair funding. What's people's thoughts on how we ensure the funding is spent correctly?

dunnerc

Farawayhome wrote: »

Guess you'll have to wait and see.

For everyone else, the conversation will continue. In the proposal, every county gets fair funding. What's people's thoughts on how we ensure the funding is spent correctly?

Lets hear your thoughts

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin have 25% more registered GAA players than Cork yet receive something like 1000% more funding from the GAA than Cork.

There's clearly something amiss there. Its not related solely to more people. The population of Dublin is about 2.5 times that of Cork. So why are Dublin getting at least 10 times the funding?

Here's what's amiss:
An understanding of what Development funding does, and how it is spent.

Development funding is to get kids playing Football and Hurling. Not a red cent was or is ever spent of any competitive team of any kind. Full stop. Trying to make the claim that Senior Football success was bought via Games Development Funding is simply inaccurate.

That said, kids who have come thorough the system that GDF put in place, are starting to reach the minor levels in both codes. I believe this will have a positive impact on the quality of players coming through the ranks over the coming years. Interesting times.

The GAA are not really interested in splitting Dublin, even if some people are. Semi/Professional teams are the future - there's more money in that, so that's the direction they will take - for right or for wrong.

Jaden

Farawayhome wrote: »

Guess you'll have to wait and see.

For everyone else, the conversation will continue. In the proposal, every county gets fair funding. What's people's thoughts on how we ensure the funding is spent correctly?

Don't let County Boards have a say in how funds are spent.

Most of them can't be trusted. Maybe with a complete overhaul of how they are structured, and a root and branch clean out of the old guard, you might have a chance. But fat chance of that happening.

ToBeFrank123

Jaden wrote: »

Here's what's amiss:
An understanding of what Development funding does, and how it is spent.

Development funding is to get kids playing Football and Hurling. Not a red cent was or is ever spent of any competitive team of any kind. Full stop. Trying to make the claim that Senior Football success was bought via Games Development Funding is simply inaccurate.

That said, kids who have come thorough the system that GDF put in place, are starting to reach the minor levels in both codes. I believe this will have a positive impact on the quality of players coming through the ranks over the coming years. Interesting times.

The GAA are not really interested in splitting Dublin, even if some people are. Semi/Professional teams are the future - there's more money in that, so that's the direction they will take - for right or for wrong.

We all know what development funding means.

The substantial increase in games development funding and grants to Dublin began as early as 2004 when Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach and wanted more for Dublin. The effects of that stroke are being felt to this day, a complete tilting of the playing field to permanently favour his team.

The beneficaries of GDF are not just reaching minor. They are now well established seniors while also winning a number of u21 championships. They represent the core of the current Dublin team.

Dublin received 1300% more GDF from 2007-2017 than the next county Cork. So it goes back to at least 2007.

dunnerc

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

We all know what development funding means.

The substantial increase in games development funding and grants to Dublin began as early as 2004 when Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach and wanted more for Dublin. The effects of that stroke are being felt to this day, a complete tilting of the playing field to permanently favour his team.

The beneficaries of GDF are not just reaching minor. They are now well established seniors while also winning a number of u21 championships. They represent the core of the current Dublin team.

Dublin received 1300% more GDF from 2007-2017 than the next county Cork. So it goes back to at least 2007.

Cant see anything wrong here

Beechwoodspark

Farawayhome wrote: »

Guess you'll have to wait and see.

For everyone else, the conversation will continue. In the proposal, every county gets fair funding. What's people's thoughts on how we ensure the funding is spent correctly?

Personally I think all other counties other than Dublin should strike until parity is achieved.

My steps would be:

Strike-Emergency measures voted in congress-parity watchdog established-quarterly reports-Dublin split into 2 for a trial-life goes on

salmocab

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Personally I think all other counties other than Dublin should strike until parity is achieved.

My steps would be:

Strike-Emergency measures voted in congress-parity watchdog established-quarterly reports-Dublin split into 2 for a trial-life goes on

Dublin can’t strike too? That’s not fair on Dublin, we demand equal striking rights.

Jaden

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Personally I think all other counties other than Dublin should strike until parity is achieved.

My steps would be:

Strike-Emergency measures voted in congress-parity watchdog established-quarterly reports-Dublin split into 2 for a trial-life goes on

So the County Boards should go on strike to undo what the county boards agreed to do, and voted to do?

Ehhhhh.

ToBeFrank123

dunnerc wrote: »

Cant see anything wrong here

Of course you wouldn't. Anything approaching fairness or an even playing field will always be looked on unfavourably by Dubliners. Its been that way since time began. With the help of Bertie and a compliant GAA, they've managed to turn a once decent sport into a farce and there's now no way of unravelling that farce.

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Of course you wouldn't. Anything approaching fairness or an even playing field will always be looked on unfavourably by Dubliners. Its been that way since time began. With the help of Bertie and a compliant GAA, they've managed to turn a once decent sport into a farce and there's now no way of unravelling that farce.

I think you need a hobby to help with stemming the bitterness that permeates your posts. I would suggest maybe watching some form of sport, but I'm not sure that would help in this case.

You can't fix an issue, if you don't (want to) understand it's underlying causes.

Continuing to believe that the amount of GDF Dublin get, or where they play their games is somehow the DCBs fault, is sticking your head in the sand. Show me a County Board that does not fight tooth and nail to maximize it's resources, and I'll show you a County Board not doing it's job.

ToBeFrank123

Jaden wrote: »

I think you need a hobby to help with stemming the bitterness that permeates your posts. I would suggest maybe watching some form of sport, but I'm not sure that would help in this case.

You can't fix an issue, if you don't (want to) understand it's underlying causes.

Continuing to believe that the amount of GDF Dublin get, or where they play their games is somehow the DCBs fault, is sticking your head in the sand. Show me a County Board that does not fight tooth and nail to maximize it's resources, and I'll show you a County Board not doing it's job.

The old "you're a begrudger" ****e. Tiresome and predictable at this stage.

You know full well that investment in young players determines the future health of a sport in a county.

It takes at least 10 years to mould an inter county footballer, starting from the age of 8 or 9. Those 10 years up to the age of minor or U20 is where good or bad footballers are created.

I'd question your knowledge of gaelic football to be honest. You just dismiss Dublins massive GDF funds, thirteen times that of the next county, as being irrelevant and shout begrudger at anyone who even attempts to question it.

Guess what, you are part of the problem. As long as there are people who shout begrudger at others trying to fix the sport or even the playing field, the sport will have a credibility issue.

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The old "you're a begrudger" ****e. Tiresome and predictable at this stage.

You know full well that investment in young players determines the future health of a sport in a county.

It takes at least 10 years to mould an inter county footballer, starting from the age of 8 or 9. Those 10 years up to the age of minor or U20 is where good or bad footballers are created.

I'd question your knowledge of gaelic football to be honest. You just dismiss Dublins massive GDF funds, thirteen times that of the next county, as being irrelevant and shout begrudger at anyone who even attempts to question it.

Guess what, you are part of the problem. As long as there are people who shout begrudger at others trying to fix the sport or even the playing field, the sport will have a credibility issue.

With the exception of the second last statement, I would agree with most of your assertions. It's not complete, but it's more-a-less correct.

* Investment in young players eventually makes for better older players - Check.
* It takes >10 years to make a decent IC player - Check.
* I don't dismiss the value of GDF funding. If I had my way, the DCB would get more funding to continue this work. The kicker to this is that I believe the full effect of increased GDF over the last 10 years has yet to be felt at the highest levels. But this uplift is a secondary effect. GDF was there to improve juvenile player participation in a county where GAA games were on life support.
* Am I part of the problem? Check - Guilty as charged. But here's the kicker - you are just as culpable as I. What has transpired is a much your responsibility (and possibly more) as it is mine. Why did you let this happen?

As for the label of begrudger, nope, I wouldn't necessarily label you that way. Misguided, maybe. Although I can see why others might think it.

ToBeFrank123

But Dublin is not an underdeveloped county when it comes to gaelic football. It has won the second most number of AIs and will have won the most probably within a decade.

So why the F**k are they receiving at least 10 times more than their nearest competitor.

This is skewing the All Ireland and making it a non event year after year.

You don't give 10 times the amount of your nearest competitor in funds. And before people say that's because Dublin has 10 times the population of Cork, it doesn't. It has 2.5 times the population of Cork. Yet received over 13 times the GDF funding of Cork for 10 years.

Its hardly surprising then that Cork is struggling while Dublin goes from strength to strength. The whole point of GDF should be to help struggling counties like Cork, and others, not to help successful counties like Dublin. The GAA as usual have the whole thing ar*eways.

Leaving aside which counties are involved, the GAA have a made a complete b*lls of the funding. They are clueless on how to evenly distribute funds and have basically decided to give the lot to Dublin or as near as. These guys don't know how to run a sport. I'd have John Delaney running the GAA over who's running it at the moment.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But Dublin is not an underdeveloped county when it comes to gaelic football. It has won the second most number of AIs and will have won the most probably within a decade.

So why the F**k are they receiving at least 10 times more than their nearest competitor.

This is skewing the All Ireland and making it a non event year after year.

You don't give 10 times the amount of your nearest competitor in funds. And before people say that's because Dublin has 10 times the population of Cork, it doesn't. It has 2.5 times the population of Cork. Yet received over 13 times the GDF funding of Cork for 10 years.

Its hardly surprising then that Cork is struggling while Dublin goes from strength to strength. The whole point of GDF should be to help struggling counties like Cork, and others, not to help successful counties like Dublin. The GAA as usual have the whole thing ar*eways.

Leaving aside which counties are involved, the GAA have a made a complete b*lls of the funding. They are clueless on how to evenly distribute funds and have basically decided to give the lot to Dublin or as near as. These guys don't know how to run a sport. I'd have John Delaney running the GAA over who's running it at the moment.

A great example comparing Cork and Dublin.

The difference between Cork and Dublin is the difference between the county boards. One county board has been run as a personal fiefdom by one man for decades and couldn't be trusted with the lend of €10. The other county board has focussed its efforts on how it can improve juvenile mass participation and build up structures for every kid in the county.

They are both reaping the rewards of that.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

A great example comparing Cork and Dublin.

The difference between Cork and Dublin is the difference between the county boards. One county board has been run as a personal fiefdom by one man for decades and couldn't be trusted with the lend of €10. The other county board has focussed its efforts on how it can improve juvenile mass participation and build up structures for every kid in the county.

They are both reaping the rewards of that.

One county board received 15 million more in GDF than the other in 10 years despite having less than 20% more registered players.

Guess which one!

I can pick any other county, it doesn't matter. I could pick Mayo or Kerry or Monaghan. You'd find fault with them too and just overlook the fact Dublin received more in funds than almost every other county combined, despite making up only a quarter of the population of the 32 counties.

ToBeFrank123

As for reforming the championship, that's pointless until funding and GDF imbalances are redressed.

It will always remain a Mickey Mouse competition until significant GDF imbalances are dealt with.