So Michael D IS running again!

FrancieBrady

Flying Fox wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by seeing it with your own eyes? Are you stalking people on the dole?

It is simply not possible to afford all of that on the dole alone. Yes there are people who take the piss but for the majority it's a stop gap, and it's badly needed to ensure people don't fall into poverty. And before you label me, I have a full time job, pay my taxes and have never been on the dole. But my Dad was when he lost his job back in the 80s and I know the value of having that safety net. He desperately wanted to work and did find a job again but there were some tough times back then.

Stop stereotyping and try to think critically about an issue rather than swallowing soundbites from an attention seeking candidate.

It's worth posting james O'Brien's comment on Farage getting a lump sum for leaving the EU parliament in the event of Brexit:

Very easy to get cross about this. But, as with things like human rights legislation & even unemployment benefits, a functioning system that helps the deserving has to accommodate the tiny percentage of vile miscreants who abuse it. It’s an uncomfortable requirement of democracy.

oscarBravo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

This 20% vote for casey wasn't for him per say .
It was his message .

His message wasn't running for President; he was. Nobody wrote a number beside his message on a ballot paper.

If you voted for him, own it. Anyone who voted for him because they agreed with his message, but didn't necessarily want him to be President needs some remedial lessons in basic civics.

Ashleigh1986

So Oscar you beleive a candidate and their message don't go hand in hand .
Casey on 1% needed a massive reaction .
Boy did he get it .
This wasn't a 20% vote for casey .
If you beleive that ....your not aware what's going on in Ireland.
Brexit was a protest vote !!!
Caseys vote was a protest vote .
The main parties will now know this .
However they won't connect with this because they are to afraid to talk about it .

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You do know what was done to funds to promote the above by the FG/Lab government and has not been restored by the FG/Ind/FF government?

Here is the self recognition of the problem and a detailed stratedgy to overcome it. You will note that many of the recommendations have not been implemented and that any that were have since been dismantled.

https://itmtrav.ie/strategic-priorities/education/education-key-issues/

Money money money it seems has to be fired at them if they are to engage. Everyone is out of step except them.
What about the problems I mentioned i.e. Arranged early marriages within their families, fighting and goading in videos, rows at funerals, unexplained wealth etc etc. not a word about those issues out of you.

Loafing Oaf

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Caseys vote was a protest vote .
The main parties will now know this .
However they won't connect with this because they are to afraid to talk about it .

Or maybe they'll brush it off as the electorate letting off steam in an irrelevant election.

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

Money money money it seems has to be fired at them if they are to engage. Everyone is out of step except them.
What about the problems I mentioned i.e. Arranged early marriages within their families, fighting and goading in videos, rows at funerals, unexplained wealth etc etc. not a word about those issues out of you.

I have been saying since the start and on the numerous threads that there are problems with the traveller community.
Many if not all are recognised by the leaders of that community and work is being done on them.

But sensationalists and no solution ranters will of course not accept that. Because that would get in the way.

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have been saying since the start and on the numerous threads that there are problems with the traveller community.
Many if not all are recognised by the leaders of that community and work is being done on them.

But sensationalists and no solution ranters will of course not accept that. Because that would get in the way.

Well the message is not getting through. Nothing is changing,
You might need to sack the man at the top. Not doing the job he's paid to do.

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

Well the message is not getting through. Nothing is changing,
You might need to sack the man at the top. Not doing the job he's paid to do.

If you are not going to resource and incentivise those who recognise the problems within the traveller community, can you tell us what your solutions are?

Do you have any?

VonZan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you are not going to resource and incentivise those who recognise the problems within the traveller community, can you tell us what your solutions are?

Do you have any?

94% of travellers don't finish their leaving cert. Is the onus on the state to incentivise them to take up the offers of education and development that are available to all Irish citizens?

Why should the tax payer provide more money and resources when it's become very clear that the majority of travellers don't value education in the same way the majority of the state does.

I'll be voting for the next local candidate that will look after my interests and not the interests of the media or special interest groups. The country has nearly become unaffordable for the middle class and people are crying out for more resources.

FrancieBrady

VonZan wrote: »

94% of travellers don't finish their leaving cert. Is the onus on the state to incentivise them to take up the offers of education and development that are available to all Irish citizens?

Why should the tax payer provide more money and resources when it's become very clear that the majority of travellers don't value education in the same way the majority of the state does.

I'll be voting for the next local candidate that will look after my interests and not the interests of the media or special interest groups. The country has nearly become unaffordable for the middle class and people are crying out for more resources.

Well if that is a solution, a case could be made by any 20% of the electorate that any incentive or any supports for differing communities should be withdrawn.

It isn't a solution, that is a reaction. And a kneejerk one at that.

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you are not going to resource and incentivise those who recognise the problems within the traveller community, can you tell us what your solutions are?

Do you have any?

There appears to be nobody within the traveller community up for doing anything or changing anything. That's where your problem is. They all want to whinge and seek more money and resources for doing nothing.
Entitlement culture will only be changed by cutting the resources and forcing them to take action themselves. Same with any of the won't work, can't world brigade,

Chips Lovell

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

As things stand, I don't see any particular reason for the establishment parties to 'mind the gap'...

2% to 23%. Now you have.

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

They all want to whinge and seek more money and resources for doing nothing.

That can now be given a name - a 'Caseyism'.

It doesn't mean anything, it is just a generalised rant. There are people within and without the traveller movement who want to do the reforming work. I showed you some of it and there is plenty more. And there is voluntary work being done also that has reformed lives.

Loafing Oaf

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

2% to 23%. Now you have.

Nope, presidential election has no necessary ramifications for real-world politics. When the 'Peter Casey anti-traveler alliance' starts winning or seriously threatening to win Dail seats, then they'll sit up and take notice.

splinter65

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you are not going to resource and incentivise those who recognise the problems within the traveller community, can you tell us what your solutions are?

Do you have any?

What would incentivize them would be a benefits cap. Are you in agreement about that?

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That can now be given a name - a 'Caseyism'.

It doesn't mean anything, it is just a generalised rant. There are people within and without the traveller movement who want to do the reforming work. I showed you some of it and there is plenty more. And there is voluntary work being done also that has reformed lives.

Well it's not evident to many imo.
I'd cut and cut. They clearly don't appreciate much of what they get if the Tipp housing issue is anything to go by.

FrancieBrady

splinter65 wrote: »

What would incentivize them would be a benefits cap. Are you in agreement about that?

I think that benefit abuses need to be sorted out. Not just among travellers.

I actually don't see how cutting or capping someone's benefits (those who need them) is going to help.

splinter65

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think that benefit abuses need to be sorted out. Not just among travellers.

I actually don't see how cutting or capping someone's benefits (those who need them) is going to help.

It would make family planning more straightforward and cut and dried (for all families totally dependent on SW) if benefits for any one family didn’t exceed the average industrial wage for example. What caused the most furore over the Margaret Cash episode recently was her declaration that the “government is robbing me blind” when the reality is that she’s in receipt of at least €53000 in benefits and allowances. You have to see how angry that made people feel. Then she’s guilty of shoplifting in Penney’s for the umpteenth time.

Rhineshark

https://www.rte.ie/news/presidential-election/results/

So as Kerry finally made it's mind up, Higgins 55.8% , Casey 23.3, Gallagher & Ni Riada tie at 6.4%, Freeman 6% and Duffy 2.2% is the final count.

Rhineshark

Rhineshark wrote: »

Irish Times (Ipsos/MRBI)/RTE (RedC)
Peter Casey – 21%/20.7%
Gavin Duffy – 2%/2%
Joan Freeman – 6%/6.3%
Sean Gallagher – 7%/5.5%
Michael D Higgins – 56%/58.1%
Liadh Ní Riada – 8%/7.4^

IT: Yes 69-31%, RTE Yes 71-29%

For last night's exit polls for comparison.

Jackman25

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have been saying since the start and on the numerous threads that there are problems with the traveller community.
Many if not all are recognised by the leaders of that community and work is being done on them.

But sensationalists and no solution ranters will of course not accept that. Because that would get in the way.

Really. On Prime Time Martin Collins was asked about the proportion of young travellers in Oberstown.
His Answer......
Racism.

Ya, they are recognizing the issues alright.....

L1011

Rhineshark wrote: »

For last night's exit polls for comparison.

Indicates there may actually be a - small enough - "shy" voter level for once, for Casey. Usually expectations of shy whatever have turned out to be phenomenally wrong, often the reverse but it isn't the case here.

SF voters over-emphasising their support continues with yet another undershoot!

FrancieBrady

Jackman25 wrote: »

Really. On Prime Time Martin Collins was asked about the proportion of young travellers in Oberstown.
His Answer......
Racism.

Ya, they are recognizing the issues alright.....

I didn't see the interview so cannot comment on it. But it is totally wrong to say there is no recognition of the issues or work being done to combat them.

http://www.iprt.ie/files/IPRT_Travellers_Report_web.pdf

humberklog

Had a listen back there to Pat Kenny this morning. Very good range of guests for the 3 hours.

He had Casey on at the start. When asked if he'd do anything different Casey said he'd go in harder on Pavee Point and in particular call for the resignation of Martin Collins as he felt he was doing nothing.

Later in the show Martin Collins rang in for a chat. To which he started off by saying he had "represented his community with integrity and distinction". Well there's no praise like self praise!
Interestingly the results from Rathkeale came in while he was on air. The tally's were showing Casey leading Higgins..."This in a predominantly traveller town?" says Pat to Martin. Martin then blusters that yes they had problems getting people registered and it was something they were working on in Pavee Point...Something they're working on? How many fecking years does he want to work on it?
Then the results came in for Askeaton...same pitiful whinging from this useless excuse of a person. "But, but, but..."

Now that is a shame Casey didn't go in hard on Pavee Point and Martin Collins.

Generally good contributions from the guests and worth a listen- Alice Leahy in particular. But especially that comedy gold of Collins praising himself as results came in.

nuac

VonZan wrote: »

94% of travellers don't finish their leaving cert. Is the onus on the state to incentivise them to take up the offers of education and development that are available to all Irish citizens?

Why should the tax payer provide more money and resources when it's become very clear that the majority of travellers don't value education in the same way the majority of the state does.

I'll be voting for the next local candidate that will look after my interests and not the interests of the media or special interest groups. The country has nearly become unaffordable for the middle class and people are crying out for more resources.

Agreed

never_mind

What I love is that MDH got double the votes PC got in one of the lowest turnouts in history. Message to all you white privileged dudes: you won’t penetrate ireland, were a sound nation so F off with your populist faux victimised discourse.

Topgear on Dave

never_mind wrote: »

What I love is that MDH got double the votes PC got in one of the lowest turnouts in history. Message to all you white privileged dudes: you won’t penetrate ireland, were a sound nation so F off with your populist faux victimised discourse.

We just elected a privileged white dude. They're not victimised at all here.

Adamcp898

Something I feel people may be missing Re: 'Casey vs. The Political Establishment'

Most of the candidates this year kept using so-called 'disadvantaged' groups as their platform for how they'd improve Ireland through becoming President, be they people suffering from mental illness, the homeless, or suffering from other health problems.

But at a time when we're surrounded by 'talk' which proclaims to improve the standing of many 'marginalised' groups including those mentioned, yet with markedly fewer results to point to, perhaps it was that jaded message that didn't resonate with the electorate? Or dare I say a message that is quickly becoming synonymous with political buzzword culture where people say them without ever meaning a whole lot?

Then we have Casey who comes along and simply by speaking his mind, rightly or wrongly, inherently comes across as genuine in comparison and so wins the vote of many.

For instance, we've been hearing from politicians about the homeless crisis promising they're putting measures in place to fix it for so long that one can't help but be a little skeptical now every time someone else comes along now and says they're going to be the one to fix things?

Just a thought. Sometimes there's no needs to start appraising and comparing the actions of foes when it's the message to begin with that's at fault.

oscarBravo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

So Oscar you beleive a candidate and their message don't go hand in hand .

No, I don't believe that. If I believed that, I'd have said it.

You appear to have carefully avoided understanding my point, so I'll make it again: you claimed that people didn't vote for Casey, but for his message.

If you write "1" beside a candidate's name and then claim that you didn't vote for him, you're lying to yourself. You can spin all the sophistry you want to justify doing so, but that doesn't change the facts.

I really hate protest votes. If you want to protest, protest. If you want to vote, vote.

never_mind

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

We just elected a privileged white dude. They're not victimised at all here.

Yeah cause PC isn’t? Difference is is that you can be privileged and be aware of it .MDH knows he is. PC is a mess and so is any man (it’s all men tbf) who is going through this weird insecure masculine phase. Man up and jog on.