So Michael D IS running again!

Tell me how

Edward M wrote: »

For me he didn't. I agree with his comments though re travellers and welfare.
But I didn't vote for him as my number 1, or Higgins either for that matter.
His comments and his rising of the debate he started is a useful and incitful insight into how feelings are about travellers.
They aren't trusted in rural and county towns or communities, no pc brigade shouting about traveller rights will change that either.
Casey wouldn't have been a good president imo, but the fact that Higgins is seen as a good representative of ordinary Irish citizens is a joke too, he has never been a working class represent tative imo, rather a projective of a arty farty type of Ireland that we like to project to our foreign counterparts, not a reflection of the real Ireland at all.

First point in bold. On one side we have the PC brigade, on the other the right wing mob. At least, that is how they are described by those that don;t ascribe to their views. It is in itself divisive and is decrying one group of "tarring us all with the same brush" by doing the same thing.

Second point. Who do you think would be reflective of the real Ireland? Am curious.

Rhineshark

Would be handy if someone could explain what the "real Ireland" is too and how many of us don't count as "real Irish" based on this view of Realness.

An Ciarraioch

Presumably the implication is someone like the Healy-Raes or Michael Fitzmaurice, but what shouldn't be forgotten is that Michael D won in every constituency and county, in every age group, and within every party except SF, so hard to say that he doesn't "reflect the real Ireland" on that basis.

Edward M

Tell me how wrote: »

First point in bold. On one side we have the PC brigade, on the other the right wing mob. At least, that is how they are described by those that don;t ascribe to their views. It is in itself divisive and is decrying one group of "tarring us all with the same brush" by doing the same thing.

Second point. Who do you think would be reflective of the real Ireland? Am curious.

Of the candidates in the field I thought nota.
But the most socially aware of what we had was probably Joan Freeman.
The major party's, FG and FF shirked their responsibility I think in not providing us with better candidates both politically and socially aware.
It was definitely the worst ever presidential election in the state.

The fact that way less than half the electorate voted is testament to that fact.

Tell me how

Edward M wrote: »

Of the candidates in the field I thought nota.
But the most socially aware of what we had was probably Joan Freeman.
The major party's, FG and FF shirked their responsibility I think in not providing us with better candidates both politically and socially aware.
It was definitely the worst ever presidential election in the state.

I gave Joan my #2 vote.
I'm of the view that FF,FG did us a favour by recognizing that MDH was doing very well in the role and it was best for him to continue.

If they had advocated that he step aside and then offered candidates who they robustly campaigned for, I'd be annoyed that they were distracting from the required focus on maintaining a balanced government throughout Brexit negotiations.

Edward M

Tell me how wrote: »

I gave Joan my #2 vote.
I'm of the view that FF,FG did us a favour by recognizing that MDH was doing very well in the role and it was best for him to continue.

If they had advocated that he step aside and then offered candidates who they robustly campaigned for, I'd be annoyed that they were distracting from the required focus on maintaining a balanced government throughout Brexit negotiations.

I take that point too, a very valid opinion.

CrabRevolution

If anything I see it as a mark of a healthy democracy that the 2 major parties read the public sentiment towards Michael D and acknowledged it by not running candidates against him. It's a rare incidence of valuing the views of the public over the views of the party.

The whole "we need to have an election for the sole purpose of having an election" mantra seemed stupid to me. Reminded me of the "I'm calling to say I'm calling" scene from Big Trouble

splinter65

Tell me how wrote: »

If it wasn't a protest vote, are you suggesting that 23% of the country wanted Peter Casey to be elected president?

That's even more scary. In what way did he even for a second show himself to be a suitable candidate for that office?

Trump demonstrated over and over again in his presidential campaign how NOT to get elected but elected he was. I don’t think a lot of voters have lofty/stuffy ideas about what the president should act/look/sound like and I think that a good smattering of them would kinda enjoy a bit of a maverick colliding around the place saying and doing the wrong thing all the time.
A bit like the Duke of Edinburgh I suppose.
Happy enough to see MDH re-elected but happy enough if it was P.C. either.

FrancieBrady

splinter65 wrote: »

Trump demonstrated over and over again in his presidential campaign how NOT to get elected but elected he was. I don’t think a lot of voters have lofty/stuffy ideas about what the president should act/look/sound like and I think that a good smattering of them would kinda enjoy a bit of a maverick colliding around the place saying and doing the wrong thing all the time.
A bit like the Duke of Edinburgh I suppose.
Happy enough to see MDH re-elected but happy enough if it was P.C. either.

A millionaire, who seems previously aligned with the SDLP and who now wants affirmation from the FF constituency, does not a potential 'maverick' make, to be perfectly honest.

James Brown

As I said before I don't think Casey could care less about Travelers. He was likely talking to councilors in Tipp and that housing issue came up and he jumped on it. Chancer.
The idea that someone wanting to run for Fianna Fail would represent the silent majority having a say is ludicrous, however I concede many fell for it.

Nice to see Sean evaporate.

Water John

Nicer still to see Duffy come last, even in his own constituency.

Tell me how

Water John wrote: »

Nicer still to see Duffy come last, even in his own constituency.

Think it was ill-advised for him to go for the presidency but I thought he handled himself with dignity throughout, he didn't jump on the topic which was obviously giving Casey popularity. After the result was becoming clear, he spoke to radio shows about the campaign and how it felt to have done so poorly and he gave a positive and congratulatory speech in Dublin Castle.

It cost him a few quid but I suspect it will have helped him in his business so he'll get that back.

Water John

I did like his line, that they had applied for a vacancy that wasn't available.
Would an entreprenuer ask any of the three Dragons to be a business partner? Think all three showed poor judgement.

Tell me how

Water John wrote: »

I did like his line, that they had applied for a vacancy that wasn't available.
Would an entreprenuer ask any of the three Dragons to be a business partner? Think all three showed poor judgement.

Lot of entrepreneurs are looking for someone just mad enough to give them a few quid. Think they'll still find people to give their money to.

Water John

Not the way they approach it. Most that agree give a good % of the business for small cash + the expertise the Dragon brings. It's that expertise I'm questioning.

An_Toirpin

pixelburp wrote: »

The 'protest vote' mentality only makes sense in an election where there's a clear government slant or investment in the outcome of decision X. Lisbon 1 seems the most obvious example there; usually helps too when said government is an unpopular one (no polling demonstrates this). And while the glib may sneer at Higgins as being the 'establishment' candidate, the reality is there was nothing on the line, while the sitting President was self-evidently a well loved public figure.

In fact a large percentage of this thread, up until about 2 weeks ago, consisted of chatter around the necessity, validity and purpose of both this election & the President in the first place. We all thought Higgins would coast by on goodwill alone - and the votes demonstrate that. Yet one Casey brain-fart later, and suddenly there are insistences of protest, projecting biases and hopes onto a candidate who was hitherto a bit of a spoofer and more than a little ignorant of Irish affairs. There's a fair suggestion he has ignited a conversation about travellers - albeit accidentally IMO - but I've seen no evidence of a broad maturity in that debate - and I would blame Casey for lacking the nous to steer the debate. 'Speaking your mind' is all well and good, but it helps to have substance behind the waffle.

MDH has very little real substance. It is easy to critique neoliberalism when you don't believe in the concept of evidence or hypothesis testing. I cant comment on his poetry but on social affairs he is a lightweight.

Tell me how

An_Toirpin wrote: »

MDH has very little real substance. It is easy to critique neoliberalism when you don't believe in the concept of evidence or hypothesis testing. I cant comment on his poetry but on social affairs he is a lightweight.

Who in Ireland would you consider a heavyweight on social affairs?

An_Toirpin

Tell me how wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote: »

MDH has very little real substance. It is easy to critique neoliberalism when you don't believe in the concept of evidence or hypothesis testing. I cant comment on his poetry but on social affairs he is a lightweight.

Who in Ireland would you consider a heavyweight on social affairs?

The likes of Burke, Hume, Herzog. More recently Dan O Brien, Garret Fitzgerald, [font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Michael McDowell. Dev was a very intelligent man but quite removed from human behaviour in a very similar way to Higgins. Higgins victory speech was so full of cliches and sound bytes it reminded be of Gallagher although more collected. [/font]

An_Toirpin

Tell me how wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote: »

MDH has very little real substance. It is easy to critique neoliberalism when you don't believe in the concept of evidence or hypothesis testing. I cant comment on his poetry but on social affairs he is a lightweight.

Who in Ireland would you consider a heavyweight on social affairs?

The likes of Burke, Hume, Herzog. More recently Dan O Brien, Garret Fitzgerald, [font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Michael McDowell. Dev was a very intelligent man but quite removed from human behaviour in a very similar way to Higgins. Higgins victory speech was so full of cliches and sound bytes it reminded be of Gallagher although more collected. [/font]

The President also pledged to tackle the housing crisis, climate change, Brexit, trade, global hunger and the need to end “the scourge of violence against women" during his time in office.

[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Clearly Higgins is not overreaching...[/font]

An Ciarraioch

The same Dan O'Brien who thinks the backstop is a mistake, but has no meaningful solution to the Border question?

An Ciarraioch

Yanis Varoufakis seems to rate him:

http://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1056471991643971584

An_Toirpin

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

The same Dan O'Brien who thinks the backstop is a mistake, but has no meaningful solution to the Border question?

Intelligence doesn't mean someone has all the answers but at least he is analytical and evidence driven. While Higgins is on another planet. He talked about ending world hunger in his victory speech. World hunger is on the verge of being wiped out (thanks to the Right and markets) and even if it was a huge problem an Irish president has no power to solve it. Higgins is an erudite left populist.

Rhineshark

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Intelligence doesn't mean someone has all the answers but at least he is analytical and evidence driven. While Higgins is on another planet. He talked about ending world hunger in his victory speech. World hunger is on the verge of being wiped out (thanks to the Right and markets) and even if it was a huge problem an Irish president has no power to solve it. Higgins is an erudite left populist.

Could you explain how world hunger is being wiped out by the Right and markets?

tabby aspreme

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Yanis Varoufakis seems to rate him:

http://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1056471991643971584

Yes I'm sure he learned a lot from the philosophy of his despot Hero's, Chavez and Ortega

An_Toirpin

Rhineshark wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Intelligence doesn't mean someone has all the answers but at least he is analytical and evidence driven. While Higgins is on another planet. He talked about ending world hunger in his victory speech. World hunger is on the verge of being wiped out (thanks to the Right and markets) and even if it was a huge problem an Irish president has no power to solve it. Higgins is an erudite left populist.

Could you explain how world hunger is being wiped out by the Right and markets?

The radical increase in free markets since 1990 and massive increase in yields (through profit driven agri research) has had a profound effect on reducing the percent of people hunger.  Aid from the developed world has helped but it is really the developing world who is doing most of the work hundreds of millions farmers driven by profit. China and India are great examples but plenty in Africa too.

Rhineshark

An_Toirpin wrote: »

The radical increase in free markets since 1990 and massive increase in yields (through profit driven agri research) has had a profound effect on reducing the percent of people hunger.  Aid from the developed world has helped but it is really the developing world who is doing most of the work hundreds of millions farmers driven by profit. China and India are great examples but plenty in Africa too.

Look up Norman Borlaug.

Tell me how

An_Toirpin wrote:

World hunger is on the verge of being wiped out (thanks to the Right and markets).

Umm......say what now?
That's a pretty bold statement. Like Nigel Farage claiming the success of the EU is down to him.

Water John

If free market economics were fully applied, we still wouldn't have the Plimsoll Line and still have young boys up chimneys. Free market economics has no morals and so has to be tempered.

Tell me how

Water John wrote:

If free market economics were fully applied, we still wouldn't have the Plimsoll Line and still have young boys up chimneys. Free market economics has no morals and so has to be tempered.

Utterly depressing news from the WWF this morning that 60% of the world's wildlife has disappeared since 1970.

Also announced today that China has removed ban in use of Rhino and Tiger body parts in medicine.

Free market economics has no morals is the understatement of the year.
And while we obviously need more tempering, what we get is Trump rolling back legislation, Bolsanaro elected in Brazil, the UK deciding now is the time for isolation and a largely steady hand in politics in Europe announcing that they are bowing out.

Utterly depressing.

Edward M

Tell me how wrote: »

Utterly depressing news from the WWF this morning that 60% of the world's wildlife has disappeared since 1970.

Also announced today that China has removed ban in use of Rhino and Tiger body parts in medicine.

Free market economics has no morals is the understatement of the year.
And while we obviously need more tempering, what we get is Trump rolling back legislation, Bolsanaro elected in Brazil, the UK deciding now is the time for isolation and a largely steady hand in politics in Europe announcing that they are bowing out.

Utterly depressing.

I'm not depressed one bit by it at all.
I'm concerned for sure, but not much will change because of any of it.
I'd call it a challenging time, a time where there is change of what's accepted as the norms, norms that have allowed the situations we have to develop to where they are.
Everything you mentioned is due to failed policies and govts and huge corps heedless of citizens needs.
Too much sucking on working class people trying to survive and finding it hard and their taxes being ate up by minoritys, like travellers, as highlighted by Casey.
People are looking for change.