They're Alive!!!

Amirani · 08-07-2018 4:27pm

bobbyss wrote: »

You would wonder why a full compliment of divers wouldn't go at It without the need of a break.

There's not enough oxygen I believe. Staging points have to be set up along the route to change tanks during the extractions.

I'd imagine here are also additional complications with having everyone moving at once. If someone encounters an issue, there isn't much space to move and there isn't many rest areas of a similar standard than the one they're at at present.

wexie · 08-07-2018 4:31pm

bobbyss wrote: »

You would wonder why a full compliment of divers wouldn't go at It without the need of a break.

There are limits to how much diving you can do depending on how deep you are and what you breathe (it's not always just air). If you go over these limits there's risks of all kinds of physical unpleasantness.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Reading-Dive-Tables/

That table is for sports divers in open water, gets a lot more complicated when you're underground and at altitude (although I'm not sure what altitude they are at so it may not be a concern).

It's all to do with how gasses dissolve in your blood stream.

padd b1975 · 08-07-2018 4:33pm

The difficulty of the rescue highlights even more how lucky they were to find them in the first place.

Fantastic work all round from the rescuers.

Tilikum17 · 08-07-2018 4:37pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

The difficulty of the rescue highlights even more how lucky they were to find them in the first place.

Fantastic work all round from the rescuers.

I can’t stop thinking about the bravery of those first two divers that found them.

An I.T consultant for Christ sake.

Paddy Cow · 08-07-2018 4:38pm

bobbyss wrote: »

You would wonder why a full compliment of divers wouldn't go at It without the need of a break.

Not enough people with the necessary training and knowledge of the cave to have more than one team?

facehugger99 · 08-07-2018 4:41pm

bobbyss wrote: »

You would wonder why a full compliment of divers wouldn't go at It without the need of a break.

He said, brushing the cheeto puff crumbs from his keyboard.

08-07-2018 4:44pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I can’t stop thinking about the bravery of those first two divers that found them.

An I.T consultant for Christ sake.

"All right lads, I'm here I'm here. Stop the search stop the search. Right, restart the search. That'll be 100euro, cheers."

acai berry · 08-07-2018 4:45pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Not enough people with the necessary training and knowledge of the cave to have more than one team?

Time doesn't allow for another team to gain the invaluable experience the first team have gained over the last couple of days.

Dr. Bre · 08-07-2018 4:45pm

Their coming home...

_Dara_ · 08-07-2018 4:47pm

Will I Am Not wrote: »

FFS. It’s a nice gesture. If they were into rugby and the equivalent organisation offered them seats at the rugby WC would that be a PR opportunity too?

It would indeed. They’ll enjoy it but organisations are always thinking of their bottom line. And it might even be too soon for them to travel if they’re weakened.

dr.fuzzenstein · 08-07-2018 4:50pm

wexie wrote: »

There are limits to how much diving you can do depending on how deep you are and what you breathe (it's not always just air). If you go over these limits there's risks of all kinds of physical unpleasantness.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Reading-Dive-Tables/

That table is for sports divers in open water, gets a lot more complicated when you're underground and at altitude (although I'm not sure what altitude they are at so it may not be a concern).

It's all to do with how gasses dissolve in your blood stream.

I would be surprised if they experienced the kinds of pressures that would force them to take decompression breaks or breath special air mixtures designed for extreme depths. My bet is on regular 200 bar cylinders of compressed air.
The biggest concern for cave diving would be having an emergeny that would force you to surface, which could quickly become a serious problem.

gctest50 · 08-07-2018 4:55pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

.....

The biggest concern for cave diving would be having an emergeny that would force you to surface......

Except you've rock above you and it's full to the ceiling

wexie · 08-07-2018 4:57pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I would be surprised if they experienced the kinds of pressures that would force them to take decompression breaks or breath special air mixtures designed for extreme depths. My bet is on regular 200 bar cylinders of compressed air.
The biggest concern for cave diving would be having an emergeny that would force you to surface, which could quickly become a serious problem.

I don't think so either (and to be honest it's been a long time since I've looked at a dive table) but I do remember it's not just the depth but also how much time you spend at that depth. The deeper you go the less time you can spend, but even at shallow depths I believe there's a limit to how long you can dive and how many times you can do it without a break.

Anyways, it's kinda hypothetical unless we know more about how deep and how long.

Stheno · 08-07-2018 5:01pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

An I.T consultant for Christ sake.

or one of the top cave divers in the world who has set records for dives and designed equipment to make the sport safer?

08-07-2018 5:02pm

The bends come from the pressure caused by the weight of the water above you. I doubt it applies in caves.

Sam Quentin · 08-07-2018 5:10pm

Heavy rain on site at the moment ffs

wexie · 08-07-2018 5:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The bends come from the pressure caused by the weight of the water above you. I doubt it applies in caves.

Of course it does?! perhaps not in this cave (as it doesn't seem particularly deep) but physics and body chemistry don't change just because there is water as well as rock above you?

http://dynamic.hs.fi/2014/deep/

08-07-2018 5:15pm

wexie wrote: »

Of course it does?! perhaps not in this cave (as it doesn't seem particularly deep) but physics and body chemistry don't change just because there is water as well as rock above you?

http://dynamic.hs.fi/2014/deep/

My intuition is that being in a flooded cave 100m down through it would not have the same pressure as being 100m down in the sea. I feel like the cave is holding the water all the way up.

Can anyone confirm?

Mam of 4 · 08-07-2018 5:16pm

This is so heartwarming that they have four boys out , unbelievable tbh !

And also heart wrenching hoping that the rains don't hinder their plans for tomorrow . Fingers,legs, whatever crossed that this it will be an ending we can all cheer and be delighted for

Will I Am Not · 08-07-2018 5:19pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

It would indeed. They’ll enjoy it but organisations are always thinking of their bottom line. And it might even be too soon for them to travel if they’re weakened.

So no organisation should ever do anything nice for anybody in case they look like they are only in it for themselves?

wexie · 08-07-2018 5:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My intuition is that being in a flooded cave 100m down through it would not have the same pressure as being 100m down in the sea. I feel like the cave is holding the water all the way up.

Can anyone confirm?

Do you mean 100 meter rock and then water? In that case the rock wouldn't add anything to the pressure

But if you mean 100 meters under water and then 100 meters of rock the rock wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

lemd · 08-07-2018 5:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

wexie wrote: »

Of course it does?! perhaps not in this cave (as it doesn't seem particularly deep) but physics and body chemistry don't change just because there is water as well as rock above you?

http://dynamic.hs.fi/2014/deep/

My intuition is that being in a flooded cave 100m down through it would not have the same pressure as being 100m down in the sea. I feel like the cave is holding the water all the way up.

Can anyone confirm?

Regarding hydrostatic pressure 100m is 100m, the vertical depth is all that matters not the route or other factors.

08-07-2018 5:31pm

wexie wrote: »

Do you mean 100 meter rock and then water? In that case the rock wouldn't add anything to the pressure

But if you mean 100 meters under water and then 100 meters of rock the rock wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

Left: cave
Right: ocean

I feel like while there would be increased pressure in the cave, it wouldn't be as much as in the ocean. So the ocean would have worse bends at the same depth.

I'm not arguing a point here. I'm interested in knowing.

_Dara_ · 08-07-2018 5:32pm

Will I Am Not wrote: »

So no organisation should ever do anything nice for anybody in case they look like they are only in it for themselves?

They can do as they wish and people can look on it cynically if they wish. No skin off anyone’s nose. The end.

kerry cow · 08-07-2018 5:36pm

Such a good result .i am surprised that it went so well .
I get so emotional thinking of the first day there trapped in the dark and then just keep waiting not knowing if someone will come and then to see a diver emerge from the water , the whole thing ,we will never know their ture suffering .
May they all go home safely .

08-07-2018 5:38pm

lemd wrote: »

Regarding hydrostatic pressure 100m is 100m, the vertical depth is all that matters not the route or other factors.

Is the guy in the middle closer to the guy on the left or the guy on the right in terms of pressure, or is he actually the exact same as the guy on the right?

Edit: Sorry for going on about this.. I asked my brother and he gave the water tower example. I countered with the fact that surely even in a hypothetical closed system, a house 1000 miles away wouldn't have the same tap pressure as a house next to the tower? There must be some effect of all that piping taking the weight of the water?

And to take it to the extreme, a straw 100metres tall feels like it couldn't possibly add as much pressure as the open ocean 100metres above you.

Discodog · 08-07-2018 5:46pm

They will of planned meticulously. The only thing that might change the plan is heavy rain that overcomes the pumps & they will of made a plan for that. I suspect that the next 4 or 8 won't take as long per person. The team will have a routine but they won't risk cutting any corners.

The boys are lucky that one of the best teams in the World didn't give up searching & they won't give up getting them out. These guys never panic because it usually kills you.

Will I Am Not · 08-07-2018 5:54pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

They can do as they wish and people can look on it cynically if they wish. No skin off anyone’s nose. The end.

They can look at it cynically if they want. I just don’t get why. You were wrong in your first accusation and then just levelled the same accusation at another group. Each to their own I suppose...

gctest50 · 08-07-2018 5:56pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.........

Edit: Sorry for going on about this.. I asked my brother and he gave the water tower example. I countered with the fact that surely even in a hypothetical closed system, a house 1000 miles away wouldn't have the same tap pressure as a house next to the tower? There must be some effect of all that piping taking the weight of the water?.......

If both houses were at the same height and you stuck a pressure gauge on the pipe in both, they'd read the same ( ideal etc etc )

The pressure in the 1000 mile one may not be up to much if you try having a shower though

Discodog · 08-07-2018 6:00pm

gctest50 wrote: »

If both houses were at the same height and you stuck a pressure gauge on the pipe in both, they'd read the same ( ideal etc etc )

The pressure in the 1000 mile one may not be up to much if you try having a shower though

One of the problems with the water pumping is the pipe friction over such long distances. They wanted to move the pumps inside the cave, to reduce this but couldn't.

They're Alive!!!

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