David Drumm guilty

Heebie

Zebra3 wrote:

Now, speculate on how many years suspended he gets.

300 years with 299 years 11 months suspended?

Are Am Eye

DeanAustin wrote: »

Jesus, some crazy posting in here. Would be willing to bet that this time yesterday if a thread had been posted about the verdict being imminent, we’d have had the same hysteria about “the likes of him never get found guilty.”

Let’s see what sentence he gets and the rationale behind it before descending into a thread of comments which mostly belong on the Daily Mail website.

Personally I'm keeping an open mind on what sentence he may get.
However any of the comments here that you call irrational are actually based
on data and track record. Our Courts consistently apply a lenient and laisez faire attitude to sentencing. Very liberal by international standards.

hatrickpatrick

Have to be honest, as much as I truly despise this man and the culture he represents, I consistently find it incredibly disturbing how many people find it palatable to make jokes about hoping someone gets sexually assaulted in a situation where it's at least somewhat likely that it'll actually happen.

Zebra3

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Personally I'm keeping an open mind on what sentence he may get.
However any of the comments here that you call irrational are actually based
on data and track record. Our Courts consistently apply a lenient and laisez faire attitude to sentencing. Very liberal by international standards.

Especially on white collar crime.

If it was the US, Drumm wouldn’t be out on bail, and he’d be heading off to a federal penitentiary for 400-500 years.

DeanAustin

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Personally I'm keeping an open mind on what sentence he may get.
However any of the comments here that you call irrational are actually based
on data and track record. Our Courts consistently apply a lenient and laisez faire attitude to sentencing. Very liberal by international standards.

Off the top of my head, there is one fella who thinks he already got 2 years and is foaming at the mouth.

There were a couple of others saying no one has been imprisoned for the crash. Which again is just wrong.

There are others saying he’ll get a suspended sentence. That just won’t happen.

There are several saying he’ll get, for example, 4 years and serve 2 which, again, seems to be just wrong.

The judge is on a hiding to nothing here though. Anything less than life will be met with hysteria regardless of what precedents and laws the judge is bound by.

Are Am Eye

DeanAustin wrote: »

Off the top of my head, there is one fella who thinks he already got 2 years and is foaming at the mouth.

There were a couple of others saying no one has been imprisoned for the crash. Which again is just wrong.

There are others saying he’ll get a suspended sentence. That just won’t happen.

There are several saying he’ll get, for example, 4 years and serve 2 which, again, seems to be just wrong.

The judge is on a hiding to nothing here though. Anything less than life will be met with hysteria regardless of what precedents and laws the judge is bound by.

I don't think the Judge is on a hiding to nothing.
He can dispense justice as he is well paid to do.

A proportionate and reasonable sentence in this instance should be harsh and send out a warning and fear to other bloated cats who might want to ride rough shod over society.

Junkyard Tom

The only thing these guys really fear is destitution but the game is rigged so that people like him can walk away from economic disasters with their wealth.

SEPT 23 1989

Will he go to the Kinehan or the Hutch wing?

what side will he choose?

Could he even broker a truce?

DeanAustin

Are Am Eye wrote: »

I don't think the Judge is on a hiding to nothing.
He can dispense justice as he is well paid to do.

A proportionate and reasonable sentence in this instance should be harsh and send out a warning and fear to other bloated cats who might want to ride rough shod over society.

One man’s proportionate and reasonable sentence is another man’s “lenient sentence because he’s David Drumm.”

Throw into the mix that the judge has to give consideration to a number of factors (precedent, time served etc.) and it makes it harder again for the judge.

Mooooo

Reason for bail is humanitarian grounds apparently cos his family is out of the country.....

strandroad

Does it matter that he needed to be extradited, i.e. refused to present himself for the proceedings?

Are Am Eye

DeanAustin wrote: »

One man’s proportionate and reasonable sentence is another man’s “lenient sentence because he’s David Drumm.”

Throw into the mix that the judge has to give consideration to a number of factors (precedent, time served etc.) and it makes it harder again for the judge.

I don't know where you're getting this thing that it's hard. Do you think he's not sleeping at night? lol.

Don't worry about the Judge. He does this for a living. He'll make it through.
They have a comprehensive Sentencing Guidelines document they work off (de jure) They have precedent and trends. He/she knows what his brother Judges give out in sentences every day of the week in the Courts of the land.

Unlike just about every other occupation in society they are accountable to no one. There is no pressure to attain or keep any particular level of performance in their job role. They are very well remunerated. District Judge starts on a salary of 150K.

Neamhshuntasach

Mooooo wrote: »

Reason for bail is humanitarian grounds apparently cos his family is out of the country.....

He showed his flight over to the US for when he'll be fleeing after applying for a new passport and it was only an economy ticket. Judge took pity on him.

Capt'n Midnight

Between them the jury members have served three and half years.

Because Drumm didn't plead guilty.

* Nearly 90 days in court , started off with 15 jurors.

jimmynokia

he should get 25 yr min.. We are going to be paying back this that long..

Samuel T. Cogley

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Just as well Martin Nolan wasn't the judge in this case :pac:

Exactly the Judge you want sentencing on this. He hates financial fraud/tax evasion.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The only thing these guys really fear is destitution but the game is rigged so that people like him can walk away from economic disasters with their wealth.

This, a million times. So much money that a few million "missing" through various legal and illegal channels (like, for instance, storing €200,000 cash behind your bath) will be overlooked.

A lot of people will still owe him favours so he'll be well looked after there, too.

Samuel T. Cogley

eigrod wrote: »

Presumably he can (and will) appeal to a higher court ? This could drag on for decades.

He can but in the mean time he goes to prison. We're not as bad as Italy :pac:

suicide_circus

Arrah he was just tryna make a few pound

Shower a begrudgers

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Why have they never gone after the auditors, Ernst & Young etc ? Surely the auditors must be guilty of financial negligence of some sort?

frankythefish

A sad and embarrassing day for the accounting profession, and ACA in particular of whom Mr Drumm is/was a member. Will be interesting to see what the sentence will be.

When is the DPP ever going to get prosecutions of the partners in Ernest & Young - or EY as they're now marketing themselves - for signing off on so much of the Anglo fraud?

10 years ago they signed off on one of the biggest frauds of the Irish taxpayer - and in the past 10 years EY has received millions of euro in contracts from our state. Only the little people pay penalties for breaking the rules, once again.

The Irish Times: No inquiry into Anglo's auditors

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Between them the jury members have served three and half years.

Because Drumm didn't plead guilty.

* Nearly 90 days in court , started off with 15 jurors.

Do the jurors' employers get any state assistance in covering their salaries? (presumably they had to be paid)

Odelay

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Between them the jury members have served three and half years.

Because Drumm didn't plead guilty.

* Nearly 90 days in court , started off with 15 jurors.

Very good point!

washman3

Taliyah Magnificent Scale wrote: »

With Ireland seeming prepared to head back down the same road that led to the Celtic Tiger they should make an example out of David Drumm and give him a decent sentence that might scare the life out of any other corrupt bankers etc tempted to go down the same route. They're not likely to learn from others mistakes, or to have an attack of conscience, but they might just be put off by the thought of many years in prison.

Wont happen.!! I would bet that a deal has already been 'cut'.
Sentence will be minimal, if at all. Lots of high ranking people out there don't want this guy to talk. He is capable of bringing down the whole house of cards.;)

Next guy to be arrested and put on trial should be JIM POWER, the 'soft landing' genius and 'chief economist with Friends First'

washman3

frankythefish wrote: »

A sad and embarrassing day for the accounting profession, and ACA in particular of whom Mr Drumm is/was a member.

Do you honestly think for a moment that this bothers them in the slightest.?
They couldn't give a rats fart about this as they know full well that there will never be any consequences. Drumm's sentence will prove this. Wait for it.;)

the purple tin

Seanie should be sharing a cell with him by rights.

valoren

jimmynokia wrote: »

he should get 25 yr min.. We are going to be paying back this that long..

Agreed. It was one thing to be jazzing up the books crediting and debiting billions to appear solvent, propping up the flopping share price but keeping schtum when the bank was taken into the government guarantee knowing that toxic bank was insolvent and by remaining silent contributed significantly to very nearly bankrupting the country must be considered. It was treasonous but his sentence will be akin to someone claiming dole fraudulently.

take everything

I can't believe I'm saying this but I feel sorry for David Drumm.

I feel he was a scapegoat and a lot of others should be getting jail as well

Heebie

take everything wrote:

I feel he was a scapegoat and a lot of others should be getting jail as well

There's probably truth to the scapegoat thing, and there's definitely truth in the other.