Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

deise08 · 19-05-2019 8:40pm

Well that was disappointing to say the least.
Can't have been easy for them to play most of the match one man down and with a ref who was giving absolutely no decision their way, and 'not seeing a lot' when staring right at it.
He'll, even the goal post was against us.

I appreciate people travelling and even the crowd was getting behind them and getting very vocal.
However it can't be nice for the players to see people leaving in numbers with minutes still on the clock.

Motivator · 19-05-2019 8:43pm

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Few points:
We played some lovely stuff during the league, then for some reason tactics changed for the league final and have been negative ever since. Last week you had the likes of Peter Hogan named as corner forward playing out in midfield. Today we were back to the sweeper system until the sending off. Fanning like McGrath is a negative manager. Negative tactics will never win an all Ireland. Sean Power never used negative tactics and when a Waterford manager manages a team to win 2 all Ireland's they should get the senior job when it becomes available. If he had been appointed I'm sure we would be in a better place than at present.
Also the present Waterford panel has too many hangers on who are not good enough. If you have been on the panel for a number of years and you still have not made it as a regular starter you shouldn't be still on the panel. Players such as Colin Dunford, Brian O Halloran, Peter Hogan, Shane McNulty, Michael Kearney, Stephen Roche, and a few more of that panel need replacing. This year Callum Lyons was giving a chance and he has been great so far. Whoever is manager next year needs to replace the above players and give a chance to some new players, ideally looking for tall, athletic forwards who can win their own ball. Already know of two players that fit that bracket, who I believe could make it if given their chance and I'm sure their are more out their.

All well and good saying you’d get rid of lads off the panel but who do you replace them with? To be fair, if you were to do as you say then Tommy Ryan would have been gone years ago. Tommy was on the panel in 2009 then disappeared for years. The last couple of years he’s been arguably our best forward as depressing as that is and I mean no disrespect to him when I say that as I’m a big fan of his. To be fair, the likes of Stephen Roche did very well when called upon last year, as did DJ Foran but he doesn’t even look like he’ll feature at all this summer. Our so called strong panel as it turns out is not so strong. Very difficult to know what road this Waterford team goes down now.

I think Fanning got a few things wrong today and he made some bizarre calls. I’m not blaming him for today but I don’t think he’s covered himself in glory last week or today.

mountgomery burns · 19-05-2019 8:43pm

Could not fault the ref at all today, of course every ref gets a few wrong but no awful decisions and we were well beaten.

boggerman1 · 19-05-2019 9:06pm

Waterford got what they deserved today.nothing but a hiding from a very patient Tipp side that had to break down that defensive rubbish that has been ingrained into them from "delboy" McGrath.its going to take a yr to 18 months for fanning to change up the style.Austin Gleeson contributed nothing again.

Road-Hog · 19-05-2019 9:07pm

boggerman1 wrote: »

Waterford got what they deserved today.nothing but a hiding from a very patient Tipp side that had to break down that defensive rubbish that has been ingrained into them from "delboy" McGrath.its going to take a yr to 18 months for fanning to change up the style.Austin Gleeson contributed nothing again.

Troll here I would say........best not to respond......brexit, price of heifers donal trump are a flavor of his/her more recent posts.....!

PTH2009 · 19-05-2019 9:09pm

boggerman1 wrote: »

Waterford got what they deserved today.nothing but a hiding from a very patient Tipp side that had to break down that defensive rubbish that has been ingrained into them from "delboy" McGrath.its going to take a yr to 18 months for fanning to change up the style.Austin Gleeson contributed nothing again.

Dont think Fanning is the man too lead us. He stood on the line today looking lost

Aussie terrible today and going around sulking and bitching. Tbh Tony Kelly had a few nightmare years after getting double POTY but is eventually regaining form. One danger about Aussie is he could walk away from the scene quite easily

IanVW · 19-05-2019 9:24pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Dont think Fanning is the man too lead us. He stood on the line today looking lost

Aussie terrible today and going around sulking and bitching. Tbh Tony Kelly had a few nightmare years after getting double POTY but is eventually regaining form. One danger about Aussie is he could walk away from the scene quite easily

Give it a rest

hurler on de ditch · 19-05-2019 9:37pm

BazBox wrote: »

I'm all for giving new management teams a chance and there was optimism after a solid league campaign, however I can't help but feel that Waterford under Derek McGrath would have managed this and last weeks game better.

Long 2nd half ahead

this was exactly the same as Mc Grath ,panicked played a sweeper started defending a 6 point deficit ,all over after 10 to 15 mins with no way back

hurler on de ditch · 19-05-2019 9:44pm

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

giveitholly wrote: »

Just on struggling to get Aussie involved,if he is as talented as he is supposed to be he should be the one getting himself involved not waiting for fellas around him to do it for him,Does he have the mentality and right attitude?

Personally I don’t think his attitude is right. Spends too much time sulking and giving out to teammates. He doesn’t make half enough runs off the ball to try get involved.

Some of the Tipp forwards runs were brilliant. Poor Conor Gleeson will be having nightmares about Bubbles.

think he bubbles got 3 off him .callinan got 2 and he was on a yellow ,having a really poor day ,he should have been subbed off long before the red

TheScoringGoal · 19-05-2019 9:51pm

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

think he bubbles got 3 off him .callinan got 2 and he was on a yellow ,having a really poor day ,he should have been subbed off long before the red

Callinan scored once, a goal in the last few minutes long after Conor Gleeson was sent off. Jesus we conceded enough without making up other ones.

hurler on de ditch · 19-05-2019 10:00pm

deise08 wrote: »

Well that was disappointing to say the least.
Can't have been easy for them to play most of the match one man down and with a ref who was giving absolutely no decision their way, and 'not seeing a lot' when staring right at it.
He'll, even the goal post was against us.

I appreciate people travelling and even the crowd was getting behind them and getting very vocal.
However it can't be nice for the players to see people leaving in numbers with minutes still on the clock.

In all fairness a lot of people that left early around me anyway were from tipp .

JeffKenna · 19-05-2019 10:04pm

deise08 wrote: »

I appreciate people travelling and even the crowd was getting behind them and getting very vocal.
However it can't be nice for the players to see people leaving in numbers with minutes still on the clock.

I left after that last Tipp goal, let's be honest. ..The team had given up a good 7 or 8 mins before that.

hurler on de ditch · 19-05-2019 10:06pm

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

think he bubbles got 3 off him .callinan got 2 and he was on a yellow ,having a really poor day ,he should have been subbed off long before the red

Callinan scored once, a goal in the last few minutes long after Conor Gleeson was sent off. Jesus we conceded enough without making up other ones.

Ah maybe got mixed up .I'll be back when I get a chance to see it on TV .either way he conceded a lot was on a yellow playing poorly should have off .but looking at the bench you'd struggle .

Gavlor · 19-05-2019 10:13pm

Can people stop banging on about the golden generation now?

A golden generation doesn’t go almost two years without winning a championship game regardless of the management. 7 defeats on the spin and counting

hoosier_daddy · 19-05-2019 10:14pm

I’ve said it since the news McGrath was stepping down last year that the damage he done playing that sweeper system would have a huge knock on for the next few years. He’s there sitting on the Sunday game like a smug clown. Lads have forgot how to hurl conventionally, the all Ireland u21/u18 team won it by playing conventionally, now those u21s plus the likes of Moran and Philip Mahoney look like fish out of water. Hopefully they can regroup for limerick and cork.

mickmackmcgoo · 19-05-2019 10:25pm

Lots of commentators were saying during the week that semple would suit us more than Walsh park . Hmmm.
Watched the limerick cork game there . Cork were excellent. Limerick looked very average which is strange . Peaking for the league may not have helped them . Who knows how it will go in Walsh park

thesaturdayman · 19-05-2019 10:27pm

hoosier_daddy wrote: »

I’ve said it since the news McGrath was stepping down last year that the damage he done playing that sweeper system would have a huge knock on for the next few years. He’s there sitting on the Sunday game like a smug clown. Lads have forgot how to hurl conventionally, the all Ireland u21/u18 team won it by playing conventionally, now those u21s plus the likes of Moran and Philip Mahoney look like fish out of water. Hopefully they can regroup for limerick and cork.

Oh my f ing god.

So Derek Mcgrath is to blame for this? Somehow? What about how lads play with their clubs!! For the other 6 months of the year? Does every club play with a sweeper as Derek supposedly did - which he didn’t if you actually see what's going on?

But your point is accurate, I blame Derek also for no 24/7, Brexit & for us not winning an all Ireland in 60 years.

That’s the hard question people need to face up and ask & have the balls to answer honestly. Why haven’t we won an all Ireland in 60 years?
I’ll give a starting point;

Club structures - eastern and western boards in a county of 50 clubs & 48 miles - we have more red tape & officials then the White House & kremlin combined.

Championships not fit for purpose. How can club players for eg from tramore, Erin’s own, St. Paul’s, ferrybank or down west kilrossanty, Ardmore or the shamrocks develop? Poxy lobsided championships but it won’t change because it’ll rock the boat at officer level.

County board officials - musical chairs for last 30 years, average age of about 60, totally out of tune with the reality on the ground - clubs dying & amalgamating left right and centre. Most clubs are broke from levies & taxes to help finance the inept county board, gone on since Davy fitz time all through the recession.

Infrastructure- Waterford are a 3rd world Gaa county, our grounds are Delapated & belong in 90s - we have no centre of excellence, plans for one or at executive level any idea of how they work or their benefits. To be fair Walsh park looked ok the last day, scrubbed up well.

Schools / coaching & games - our best years recently have come off back off good harty cup sides in the last 10 years we have gone way way back taking young players out of their clubs and encouraging elitism by way of these endless development squads the emphasis needs to return to schools like it is in cork tipp & in Kerry football.

Get these in order & we can start having cuts at Derek Pauric whoever ya want - they aren’t getting the raw materials & have to operate with shoestring budgets by comparison.

Waterford people need to take their oil & start differentiating the woods from the trees- unless their is a seismic change today is what the future looks like.

Whiplash85 · 19-05-2019 10:30pm

Tipp supporter here. Commiserations today. I thought Waterford were very flat from the get go. I think there was a bit of a hangover from disappointment to Clare defeat in what was your first home Munster championship game in years last Sunday. This was evident from the warm up where players were spilling balls and not clued in. There may be a small bit of feeling sorry for themselves with a couple of calls going against them last week and also Gaelic grounds last year.

3 observations I would have are that with the powers of Brick and Moran waning I don't see any leaders on the team. They will ultimately leave a massive void when they leave the panel . Another is the absence of sideline presence. With McGrath and Dan you always saw a lot of passion and energy. This feeds into the players. Fanning seems very languid in his approach. Discipline is another key thing. Not just in terms of committing fouls etc but also decision making and learning from mistakes. There are a lot of Waterford players that fall into the undisciplined box. It plagued Limerick for years until they hired Caroline Curid as sports physcologist to optimise their potential. Success and All Ireland's have followed her around the country. Waterford could do with someone like that.

Stacksofwacks · 19-05-2019 10:40pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Tipp supporter here. Commiserations today. I thought Waterford were very flat from the get go. I think there was a bit of a hangover from disappointment to Clare defeat in what was your first home Munster championship game in years last Sunday. This was evident from the warm up where players were spilling balls and not clued in. There may be a small bit of feeling sorry for themselves with a couple of calls going against them last week and also Gaelic grounds last year.

3 observations I would have are that with the powers of Brick and Moran waning I don't see any leaders on the team. They will ultimately leave a massive void when they leave the panel . Another is the absence of sideline presence. With McGrath and Dan you always saw a lot of passion and energy. This feeds into the players. Fanning seems very languid in his approach. Discipline is another key thing. Not just in terms of committing fouls etc but also decision making and learning from mistakes. There are a lot of Waterford players that fall into the undisciplined box. It plagued Limerick for years until they hired Caroline Curid as sports physcologist to optimise their potential. Success and All Ireland's have followed her around the country. Waterford could do with someone like that.

Thanks for that but i don't think there is a psychologist in the country that could fix our problems..On Tipp though I was hugely impressed with the slickness of their play, they seem to be back to 2009/10 levels already under Sheedy. Spraying the ball around, always finding the man in space or in the better position, very few wides or aimless balls. I wish we could play in a system like that tho it helps when you have the players to pull it off. If Tipp keep this kind of form up it will be hard to see anyone stopping ye

DiscoStew · 19-05-2019 10:40pm

Gavlor wrote: »

Can people stop banging on about the golden generation now?

A golden generation doesn’t go almost two years without winning a championship game regardless of the management. 7 defeats on the spin and counting

Hard to disagree with this sadly. Curran looked well below the standard today and we was a huge player for us on those teams. We struggle hugely in the forwards. The ball coming in doesn’t help at times but the amount of times it went in to the full forward line only to come straight back out was depressing. We have no Hoggy type forward that can pull you through when things aren’t going well.
Those calling for Aussie at centre back seem to think that will change everything. Alls I envisage is us being down one of our better forward options from a very limited pick.
Had Curran stuck his goal it could have been different, we were fighting incredibly hard for the third quarter to get back in to it but Forde’s goal was a real sucker blow we never recovered from. Tadhg and Philip going for the one ball for the goal just summed up the day, hopefully Philip isn’t seriously injured.
The only positives I could take were Callum Lyons’ performance, Jack Prendergast’s performance especially in the first half and Tommy Ryan’s contribution. Paudie was much improved from the Clare game.
Unfortunately I think it’s last weeks game is where we may have left it behind us this year.

Road-Hog · 19-05-2019 10:41pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Tipp supporter here. Commiserations today. I thought Waterford were very flat from the get go. I think there was a bit of a hangover from disappointment to Clare defeat in what was your first home Munster championship game in years last Sunday. This was evident from the warm up where players were spilling balls and not clued in. There may be a small bit of feeling sorry for themselves with a couple of calls going against them last week and also Gaelic grounds last year.

3 observations I would have are that with the powers of Brick and Moran waning I don't see any leaders on the team. They will ultimately leave a massive void when they leave the panel . Another is the absence of sideline presence. With McGrath and Dan you always saw a lot of passion and energy. This feeds into the players. Fanning seems very languid in his approach. Discipline is another key thing. Not just in terms of committing fouls etc but also decision making and learning from mistakes. There are a lot of Waterford players that fall into the undisciplined box. It plagued Limerick for years until they hired Caroline Curid as sports physcologist to optimise their potential. Success and All Ireland's have followed her around the country. Waterford could do with someone like that.

Bad beating and hard to understand how a team can become such ‘whipping boys’ in space of 18 months.....I don’t think it’s too much a deficit of skill or ability more to do with as you point out the need of a good tactician and sports physiologist.....?

Are we to become the next Offaly and fade away to our default standard as per the 70/80’s.......too early to say yet but with a different approach there is still a glimmer of hope that we might win a match in next couple of years but not this year.....is it that the players are still trying to get out of the way Derek McGrath set them up......???

PTH2009 · 19-05-2019 10:42pm

Would it be worth giving Billy Nolan a chance next day out on goal

Road-Hog · 19-05-2019 10:47pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Would it be worth giving Billy Nolan a chance next day out on goal

There were so many ‘unforced errors’ by guys to borrow a term from tennis court that it’s hard to single out o’keeffe.....but might be no harm to give him a try

5948ai · 19-05-2019 10:54pm

Give Billy a chance in goal now I think

PTH2009 · 19-05-2019 10:58pm

Bank holiday weekend with daytrippper on too with Limerick being in Walsh Park. Should be a big occasion but the way it's going it one of those get it done and over with it things.

Im negative as u all knw but who is not today after watching that. I haven't missed a league or championship match this year and this was by far the worst day of the year. Lots of problems and it's hard too see where the resolutions are

Stacksofwacks · 19-05-2019 11:11pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Bank holiday weekend with daytrippper on too with Limerick being in Walsh Park. Should be a big occasion but the way it's going it one of those get it done and over with it things.

Im negative as u all knw but who is not today after watching that. I haven't missed a league or championship match this year and this was by far the worst day of the year. Lots of problems and it's hard too see where the resolutions are

Why do you need to bring "You" into everything. This isn't facebook. The Limerick game will be interesting, My gut feeling they will be too strong but they will be dissapointed with their showing today and maybe a few doubts will be creeping into their minds, I think a few points either way will as much as there will be in it, if we can dig out a result then at least we can get to the Cork game with something to play for

JeffKenna · 19-05-2019 11:20pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Bank holiday weekend with daytrippper on too with Limerick being in Walsh Park. Should be a big occasion but the way it's going it one of those get it done and over with it things.

Im negative as u all knw but who is not today after watching that. I haven't missed a league or championship match this year and this was by far the worst day of the year. Lots of problems and it's hard too see where the resolutions are

I thought you missed one of the League matches as it clashed with some rugby game??

PTH2009 · 19-05-2019 11:27pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

I thought you missed one of the League matches as it clashed with some rugby game??

Nope missing the cork game due too a concert lol

upthedeise16 · 19-05-2019 11:42pm

If Waterford win their 2 games (which of course is very unlikely given our performances to date) and Tipp beat Limerick in Thurles, the most Limerick can achieve is 2 points having lost to Waterford. If Clare beat Cork in Ennis, If Waterford beat Cork the most Cork can achieve is 2 points.

The most unlikely wins here are the 2 Waterford wins, I would genuinely give both Tipp and Clare a big chance in the above mentioned games.

All is not lost, stranger things have happened, just trying to lift some of the gloom after today! 2 wins & 2 favours and Waterford can progress!

Motivator · 19-05-2019 11:43pm

Having had time to reflect on today and thinking back to last week it’s striking how much of what the players do seems to be done in the moment rather than playing to any sort of pattern or plan. I sat just beyond the Clare subs last Sunday and every time a Clare half back or full back line got on the ball they were calling exactly where the ball would land in the forward line before the player even hit it there. Obviously the Tipperary players had a very similar way of thinking and playing today (as most teams do) but this is totally lacking from our play at all ends of the field. At different stages in the first half I counted 4 times where Waterford defender had the ball in his hand under the Old Stand and a diagonal pass was between the opposite 45 and 21 yard lines - acres of totally wide open space for a runner from the forward line to receive the ball but each time the ball wasn’t played and nobody made the run. This is a basic passage of play that you’d be angry if pair of 16 year olds didn’t try and execute.

At times today there were players walking around the half forward line which allowed Tipperary players to fumble around hand passing the ball across their own final third before having the time and space to look up and deliver a ball down into their forward line. It was basic, basic stuff but it happened in both halves. The fight was gone from Waterford after 30 minutes and despite a rally for a 10 minute period in the second half, they didn’t offer much after that. Tipperary went into a lull for a few minutes before stepping on the gas again and ripping us assunder.

Today was worse than the hammering they gave us in the Munster Finals of 2011 and 2016. Back then, things felt different after a heavy defeat, it felt like a one off. Now these types of performances are almost expected which is an awful thing to say but it’s how I feel about the whole situation. It looked like the players knew the year was gone after 30 minutes. There looks to be baggage there after last year and let’s not forget there’s baggage there after Derek left. It was said when he left that the incoming manager would have an impossible act to follow and it looks that way now too. There aren’t many times in all my years following Waterford that I thought the team stopped short of giving everything - Clare in 2008 is the last time I remember that happening and look at all that happened after that defeat.

Going forward, Fanning and the players have two weeks to try and rescue something from the year. I don’t know what they do from here but they have to try something. There’s a very slim chance we can still qualify and I hope today is not forgotten about but I hope both management and the players can learn from it and use the time wisely.

Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

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