Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

brookville

first off hard luck to the girls and management and all involved yesterday.As stated a few crucial desions went against us but the girls will be first to admit they didnt play to their full potential but the age profile of this team is good i hope they get the turnout they derseve this evening and ive no doubt they will be back.
I went to thomastown saturday evening to the bridge match and from the off they bridge were much more up for this match.i thought liam blanchfield worked very hard in the first half in particular,nicky cleere deadly accurate again on frees and the bridge should of being a bit more ahead at ht despite playing against a gale.It was point for point throughout the 2nd half but enda cleere pulled off a great save to keep their noses in front.Young danny coyne sealed the game with a great point and goal came from a route one which bhale corner back could of done better and it broke kindly for coyne to bury it.
i thought the shamrocks looked a bit causal but credit must be given to the bridge despite missing sean morrissey.
theres not much between the top few teams and its all bout getting a bit of monentum now over the next few weeks.Some tasty matches to look foward to over the next few weeks.

Truth be told1974

brookville wrote: »

I went to thomastown saturday evening to the bridge match and from the off they bridge were much more up for this match.

There's not much between the top few teams and its all bout getting a bit of monentum now over the next few weeks.

Some tasty matches to look foward to over the next few weeks.

The Shamrocks are losing the majority of 'close & tight' matches (at Senior level) for the last 3 - 4 x years. It used to be that their defence was the Achilles heel (in that period) but looking at the matches this year, they have only been conceding (on average) 18 points and only one goal, the main problems they have, is that their midfield is non-existent and their using TJ to shore up that area leaving the half forward line depleted (for ball winning ability). The younger players are not at the required level (consistently) and the older players look leggy and slow. The problems that the Shamrocks have are not new, I do not think they have the 'components' to remedy the problems (for this year). How or why do other teams seem to 'out-hunger' the Shamrocks, win these type of matches...? Saying that, the Shamrocks have stayed in these types of matches and if small things had to go with them, they would have got better results but they do not seem to be able to get to the level required for another title in Kilkenny?

Maurice Flynn gave another bizarre and conceited reffing performance, not allowing advantage (to the Shamrocks player) twice in the first half and standing there after blowing the whistle with a stupid grin explaining it all, he is up there as the worst ref doing Senior (adult) matches I've ever seen.

chg1980

Truth be told1974 wrote: »

The Shamrocks are losing the majority of 'close & tight' matches (at Senior level) for the last 3 - 4 x years. It used to be that their defence was the Achilles heel (in that period) but looking at the wmatches this year, they have only been conceding (on average) 18 points and only one goal, the main problems they have, is that their midfield is non-existent and their using TJ to shore up that area leaving the half forward line depleted (for ball winning ability). The younger players are not at the required level (consistently) and the older players look leggy and slow. The problems that the Shamrocks have are not new, I do not think they have the 'components' to remedy the problems (for this year). How or why do other teams seem to 'out-hunger' the Shamrocks, win these type of matches...? Saying that, the Shamrocks have stayed in these types of matches and if small things had to go with them, they would have got better results but they do not seem to be able to get to the level required for another title in Kilkenny?

Maurice Flynn gave another bizarre and conceited reffing performance, not allowing advantage (to the Shamrocks player) twice in the first half and standing there after blowing the whistle with a stupid grin explaining it all, he is up there as the worst ref doing Senior (adult) matches I've ever seen.

Before the weekend I was of the opinion the three city clubs and the shamrocks would probably be in the last four shake up after seen them Saturday I wouldn't be so sure . Ballyraggett will fancy there chances of pulling off a big win. Glad someone referenced the reffing performance was very poor how this guy is getting games is baffling I sern him at the erins own v oloughlins game last week. Cant keep up with play. Has to be better out there. On that in since the resumption of it club scene I have attended quiet a few games one thing that has really stuck out was the refs dont keep up with play most dont look fit. Not fair on players traing 3-4 times a week

Neewollah

To be fair to Bennettsbridge they were excellent at the weekend. Really dictated the game and ran out deserving winners. I've seen them a few times this year and they've been hot and cold in most games. They'll be happy to have completed all full 60 playing at their best. Should give them momentum going forward now and a bit of belief. Wouldn't be surprised to see them on county final day. Great to see Liam Blanchfield showing some form too. Hopefully he can get a bit of consistency to his game.

The Shamrocks possibly underestimated them a little bit. Tried lots but Bennettsbridge had the answers. Worrying thing for Shamrocks would be lack of impact off the bench.

The senior championship this year is wide open. I think we have an excellent championship in store.

Marrooned

Getting sick and tired of referees antics with Kilkenny,what is their problem.the second last free was definitely a free for Kilkenny and the last free given wasn't one. Even against Limerick a blatant foul on John Donnelly cost us the match, although some said that is why James Mc Grath didn't get the final.I think after major matches the two county boards should have representatives to discuss the match with officials afterwards. I think this would improve referees and form a better bond between refs and players which at the moment is non existent, as players cannot even question a referees decision for fear of the ball been brought forward ,the rugby refs always give reasons for their decisions and the respect for the refs is clearly shown.

suirway

Marrooned wrote: »

Getting sick and tired of referees antics with Kilkenny,what is their problem.the second last free was definitely a free for Kilkenny and the last free given wasn't one. Even against Limerick a blatant foul on John Donnelly cost us the match, although some said that is why James Mc Grath didn't get the final.I think after major matches the two county boards should have representatives to discuss the match with officials afterwards. I think this would improve referees and form a better bond between refs and players which at the moment is non existent, as players cannot even question a referees decision for fear of the ball been brought forward ,the rugby refs always give reasons for their decisions and the respect for the refs is clearly shown.

It is a bit ironic the lambasting of referees considering the standard of refs in Kilkenny bar a very few is dire. Indeed most other counties have a huge amount to say about Kilkenny's own "Inter county referee" whose record of sending players off is unbelievable to say the least.

brookville

junior draw made tonight sliverue-emeralds,conahy-dunnamaggin,galmoy-piltown.The conahy match probably the pick of them.Does anyone know when the venues and times for the senior will be announced?

Joe Daly

Rugby is a lot slower game and when they are not sure of something they go up stairs something will have to be done with the gaa the u21 match v Galway there was two vital situations where the ref and the umpires made serious mistakes it has happened a lot with us this year. The match yesterday cork dictated that they were going to control things from the start yesterday the ref didn't know what to do it took a good couple of minutes to start the match due to cork messing.

ShamoBuc

It will be interesting to see how Eddie Brennan gets on as Laois boss.

JJs Left Hand

DJ and Mulrooney back in for next year

brookville

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

DJ and Mulrooney back in for next year

its probably safe to say the senior set up will remain the same.

dastardly00

ShamoBuc wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how Eddie Brennan gets on as Laois boss.

Best of luck to him. Hope he can do a good job, it won't be easy

Marrooned

suirway I'm sure your a tipp man,you would have to be to stick in a stupid argument like that,as if Fergal Horgan isn't a dick.I am well aware of our own refs shortcomings, but that wasn't the issue we should all be in agreement to try and solve this problem,they are generally arrogant people who won't go back from desicions as in your own case where Waterford were robbed this year because a refs umpire couldn't own up that he made a mistake.

greenspurs

Marrooned wrote: »

but that wasn't the issue we should all be in agreement to try and solve this problem,they are generally arrogant people who won't go back from desicions QUOTE]

Talk about making sweeping generalisations !!!!! :rolleyes:

Village87

Marrooned wrote: »

Getting sick and tired of referees antics with Kilkenny,what is their problem.the second last free was definitely a free for Kilkenny and the last free given wasn't one. Even against Limerick a blatant foul on John Donnelly cost us the match, although some said that is why James Mc Grath didn't get the final.I think after major matches the two county boards should have representatives to discuss the match with officials afterwards. I think this would improve referees and form a better bond between refs and players which at the moment is non existent, as players cannot even question a referees decision for fear of the ball been brought forward ,the rugby refs always give reasons for their decisions and the respect for the refs is clearly shown.

Regarding that game Kilkenny were not beat because of the Ref(he didnt help), they were beat because Limerick were better team on the day, Eoin Murphy kept Kilkenny in the game.

As for the Refs in Kilkenny there is 4/5 excellent refs who get the senior games
. Burke, Cleere(after improving now less fussy), Kenny, Sullivan, Crowley i also like our own man Larkin, he lets the game flow. Big drop in standard after these few

citykat

Village87 wrote: »

As for the Refs in Kilkenny there is 4/5 excellent refs who get the senior games
. Burke, Cleere(after improving now less fussy), Kenny, Sullivan, Crowley i also like our own man Larkin, he lets the game flow.  Big drop in standard after these few

After his performance in the Boro/Vat game, I wouldn't be so sure. He let way too much go that night. 
I agree on Oneman, he knows his stuff. His old man could give him a few tips from his own refereeing days!

Truth be told1974

Village87 wrote: »

As for the Refs in Kilkenny there is 4/5 excellent refs who get the senior games
. Burke, Cleere(after improving now less fussy), Kenny, Sullivan, Crowley i also like our own man Larkin, he lets the game flow. Big drop in standard after these few

I know he is not the most popular in 'Village' but Gavin Quilty is also up there, he is fussy, treats players poorly but at least he applies the rules and you at least feel he will make the hard calls?

Noddy33

Truth be told1974 wrote: »

Village87 wrote: »

As for the Refs in Kilkenny there is 4/5 excellent refs who get the senior games
. Burke, Cleere(after improving now less fussy), Kenny, Sullivan, Crowley i also like our own man Larkin, he lets the game flow.  Big drop in standard after these few

I know he is not the most popular in 'Village' but Gavin Quilty is also up there, he is fussy, treats players poorly but at least he applies the rules and you at least feel he will make the hard calls?

I dont like to criticise referees much as it really is an unenviable job but Quilty is def not up to standard. I understand about implementing rules but common sense when it comes to these 'hard calls' you reference never prevail with him in my opinion.He usually has Martin on umpire duty with him too and he has a habit of always wanting to be involved in a big call......
I know we need young referees coming through to keep the game going and Barry from Clara is one of these. He is yet to referee any  senior or intermediate games but often on Linesman duties and is another one who is fond of getting involved in proceedings. He has been involved in numerous red cards to players when operating as Linesman by instructing referee of foul play he has allegedly seen and im not exaggerating but alot of these red cards he has called for during matches get rescinded on appeal.

davidx40

Maurice Flynn is no way up to standard of reffing at any level of adult hurling hes a complete joke , we have one or two good refs thats about it ,

greenspurs

Noddy33 wrote: »

I dont like to criticise referees much as it really is an unenviable job but Quilty is def not up to standard. I understand about implementing rules but common sense when it comes to these 'hard calls' you reference never prevail with him in my opinion.

Theres always a but......

You cannot referee by the Rule book, and use common sense !
If its by the rules , its a red card offence - The player gets sent off.

If its by common sense - the ref goes "ahh hes not 'that type of player' and hes not red carded, but another ref using 'common sense' with similar offence would give a red/yellow/no foul.

The phrase 'common sense' is a bit misleading anyway. Its more "Be lenient" towards our players in the majority of decisions.
When refs use 'common sense' , that's where the spectators/media say "but that was a red card offence in that game last week, and the player was sent of ,so why not today"? That's when the "refs arent consistent" calls are made.
Common sense isn't so common. But my common sense isn't the same as yours, or the person beside you, or that players cousin in the stand, or the opposing management!.
Common sense decisions cause the vast majority of the "Refs aren't consistent" debates.
Reffing is well beyond easy, and not a lot of people in the stands/forums would be able to do it.!!

JJs Left Hand

Noddy33 wrote: »

I dont like to criticise referees much as it really is an unenviable job but Quilty is def not up to standard. I understand about implementing rules but common sense when it comes to these 'hard calls' you reference never prevail with him in my opinion.He usually has Martin on umpire duty with him too and he has a habit of always wanting to be involved in a big call......
I know we need young referees coming through to keep the game going and Barry from Clara is one of these. He is yet to referee any  senior or intermediate games but often on Linesman duties and is another one who is fond of getting involved in proceedings. He has been involved in numerous red cards to players when operating as Linesman by instructing referee of foul play he has allegedly seen and im not exaggerating but alot of these red cards he has called for during matches get rescinded on appeal.

Was wondering how long before he got mentioned

Garyp88

Although I don't agree with poor decisions losing games, mistakes will happen it's human nature and isn't the controversial decisions that get everyone talking and make atmospheres. I tend to think look at the premier league here in England a professional game with the world's eye on it. They have all the technology yet still make dodgy calls and errors and if you think that all the money and betting that's involved how does an amateur game get better if professional games can't and with all the negative comments and publicity it's putting people of becoming refs.

I think they do a decent enough job and I think most teams or individuals in any sport get there fair share of both good and bad it just depends on how high the stakes are and who's watching then the media get involved. They have a split second to make decisions some are right some are not, and given hurling is the fastest game on grass and not professional could we not cut them some slack

corner back 2

Noddy33 wrote: »

I dont like to criticise referees much as it really is an unenviable job but Quilty is def not up to standard. I understand about implementing rules but common sense when it comes to these 'hard calls' you reference never prevail with him in my opinion.He usually has Martin on umpire duty with him too and he has a habit of always wanting to be involved in a big call......

Glad to see Martin getting a mention. I once had to plead with him to blow the full time whistle in a junior football match 45 mins into the 2nd half and he insisted there was 5 mins left. Only stopped it when the opposing manager came on to confirm the time. Also witnessed him yellow carding a supporter during a junior football match in Mullinavat. Always guaranteed you some entertainment!!

northern lad

corner back 2 wrote: »

Glad to see Martin getting a mention. I once had to plead with him to blow the full time whistle in a junior football match 45 mins into the 2nd half and he insisted there was 5 mins left. Only stopped it when the opposing manager came on to confirm the time. Also witnessed him yellow carding a supporter during a junior football match in Mullinavat. Always guaranteed you some entertainment!!

He’d be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

corner back 2

northern lad wrote: »

He’d be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

Thankfully junior football in KK was never too serious!

greenspurs

corner back 2 wrote: »

Thankfully junior football in KK was never too serious!

and that attitude is worse than a 'bad' referee .....

Hawkeye6

greenspurs wrote: »

Theres always a but......

You cannot referee by the Rule book, and use common sense !
If its by the rules , its a red card offence - The player gets sent off.

If its by common sense - the ref goes "ahh hes not 'that type of player' and hes not red carded, but another ref using 'common sense' with similar offence would give a red/yellow/no foul.

The phrase 'common sense' is a bit misleading anyway. Its more "Be lenient" towards our players in the majority of decisions.
When refs use 'common sense' , that's where the spectators/media say "but that was a red card offence in that game last week, and the player was sent of ,so why not today"? That's when the "refs arent consistent" calls are made.
Common sense isn't so common. But my common sense isn't the same as yours, or the person beside you, or that players cousin in the stand, or the opposing management!.
Common sense decisions cause the vast majority of the "Refs aren't consistent" debates.
Reffing is well beyond easy, and not a lot of people in the stands/forums would be able to do it.!!

Very good post.

I would add that many supporters don't understand the rules.
I myself have a personal example where this year I saw a ref (mentioned above and whom I would not rate also) give a decision in a particular situation. The next day I saw another ref whom I would rate highly give a different decision in the same scenario. However, when I checked the rule book, it turned out the ref that I did not rate, actually gave the right decision. Anyway, wiped the egg off my face since.

I do think refs in Kilkenny are poor in general, but they are dedicated and badly needed. The main issue to me is they are mostly too old and unfit. You cannot referee GAA matches from between the two '65s. I was at a game at the weekend where the ref was so old he could barely move from the middle of the field while he had two fit young linesmen. So the appointments process needs to be reviewed.

Also their attention to detail is poor. For example, I have been to so many games this year where the goalkeeper is wearing the same colour jersey as the opposition when the game started and in several cases until the end of it. That is also a reflection on the team managements as well by the way. I wonder should we go like Camogie and have the goalie wear the same colour jersey as the outfield players. Can't think of a reason why not.

Truth be told1974

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Very good post.

I would add that many supporters don't understand the rules.
I myself have a personal example where this year I saw a ref (mentioned above and whom I would not rate also) give a decision in a particular situation. The next day I saw another ref whom I would rate highly give a different decision in the same scenario. However, when I checked the rule book, it turned out the ref that I did not rate, actually gave the right decision. Anyway, wiped the egg off my face since.

I do think refs in Kilkenny are poor in general, but they are dedicated and badly needed. The main issue to me is they are mostly too old and unfit. You cannot referee GAA matches from between the two '65s. I was at a game at the weekend where the ref was so old he could barely move from the middle of the field while he had two fit young linesmen. So the appointments process needs to be reviewed.

Also their attention to detail is poor. For example, I have been to so many games this year where the goalkeeper is wearing the same colour jersey as the opposition when the game started and in several cases until the end of it. That is also a reflection on the team managements as well by the way. I wonder should we go like Camogie and have the goalie wear the same colour jersey as the outfield players. Can't think of a reason why not.

There is no doubt that games could not be held without referee's but the points being made are towards the poor standard of fitness and the bizarre decisions made by referee's who feel they have to be the centre of attention when there is no reason for it. Like the majority of people attending matches, I would get agitated and annoyed at certain decisions made by referee's but in the overall situation, referee's that keep up with the play and treat players with respect have few major issues.

The main problems are with ref's who get adult matches and make the same 'mess' nearly every time, either through ego, lack of fitness etc. The majority of ref's doing adult matches are running around with big bellies, reffing from between the two 45 x metre lines (at best). The other main issue is ref's arriving without umpires, any ref that takes an adult match should have four umpires they trust and are experienced.

blackcard

Afraid I have to give out about the fixtures committees again. The league final between OLG and the Village is on in the Park at 3.30 pm on Saturday week with Comer and Shocks in Clara at 5.15pm. Why couldn't they allow an extra 30 minutes between matches? On the following day, they allow 2 hours 15minutes between start times in the 3 championship matches on that day which is manageable. Does anyone from the County Board follow this thread? I would love to speak to the fixtures committee.

dastardly00

Eoin Murphy, Cillian Buckley, Padraig Walsh, James Maher and TJ Reid have been nominated for All-Stars.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0912/993355-limerick-lead-the-way-with-15-all-star-nominations/