Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

kilkennyboy

Gleason is a bit like Pogba.

blackcard

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Ah here

Lynch is class. One of my favourite hurlers to watch. His skill level is phenomenal. I'm not going to pretend I've seen loads of him this year due to clashes with Kilkenny games etc. but last year he was a joy to watch.

Agree. It is not what he scores, it is the scores that he sets up and the players he finds in space. Has very good ball control too.

JohnCougar

Village87 wrote: »

No way would i throw Jason Cleere in a tough match. Lacks a bit of aggression and pace for heat of the summer championship hurling. Needs to step up his performances next year in the league to get a run in championship

He came on against Wexford and held Chin scoreless from play. Was that not the heat of summer championship hurling. By the way he is quicker than most of our defenders. If he got as many chances as others in the panel he would be on the team.

Nickindublin

I don't see many changes the next day. Cody will stick with tried and trusted especially at the back but he will want options from the bench like Walter the last day. All players fit to play one of Leahy Walter or Richie will start from the bench IMO. There is a strong case they should all start but i cant see it happening. The only other player i see losing out is Buckley. He just hasn't done anything this year yet. Hopefully he is going well in training as a fully 100% Buckley in that team could tip it our way.

blackcard

Should be a good U20 Munster Final between Cork and Tipp at 7.30p.m. this evening on TG4. We will be playing the loser in an AI semi final. Both looked good in their last outings

savannahkat

blackcard wrote: »

Should be a good U20 Munster Final between Cork and Tipp at 7.30p.m. this evening on TG4. We will be playing the loser in an AI semi final. Both looked good in their last outings

Tipp beat Cork with a goal in the last minute. Tipp just about deserved the win. Cork are very good and will take a fair effort from Kilkenny to beat them.

kilkennyboy

Fair game.you would think it was a knockout game.

Grats

savannahkat wrote: »

Tipp beat Cork with a goal in the last minute. Tipp just about deserved the win. Cork are very good and will take a fair effort from Kilkenny to beat them.

For what it's worth. Galway beat Cork in the 2017 Minor Final.

kk.man

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Wouldn't be buying into the hype around lynch .He has 2pts scored in the 4 matches he has played in Munster. Good talker probably secured him hurler of the year last year .I would have given it to hannon or hayes

My sentiments exactly!

mountgomery burns

Grats wrote: »

For what it's worth. Galway beat Cork in the 2017 Minor Final.

A lot can change in that time though, like Kilkenny beating Limerick in 2014 and being comfortably bet in the u21 final in 2017.

Not looking for a rise just first example that came to mind.

Grats

mountgomery burns wrote: »

A lot can change in that time though, like Kilkenny beating Limerick in 2014 and being comfortably bet in the u21 final in 2017.

Not looking for a rise just first example that came to mind.

That's why I said, for what it's worth!

blackspot91

Good post from Limerick poster on hoganstand..

2013 David Attenborough warned about the damage that cats were doing to British wildlife. Around the same time, Marty Morrissey or any other clued in hurling media mogul could have given the same warning in Ireland. The Kilkenny cats were in the middle of an awesome ten year period of hurling domination in Ireland. While 2013 was not their year it was a year that captured perfectly the Limerick mantra of that era; 'nearly'. Limerick won the Munster Championship and excitement rose to fever pitch before being brought to earth with a Banner Bang. All Ireland Semi final defeat hurt, hurt really badly if we are being honest. The hurt was so bad that the only person who spoke in our car going home was a young lad bawling for a feed. 'Next year' was a phrase we never wanted to hear again. Sadly next year was more of the same.

The 2014 All-Ireland semi final between Kilkenny and Limerick can be summed up in one word; 'epic'. TJ Ryan and Donal O'Grady had been joint Managers of the side before the Cork man left due to classic Limerick Achilles heel activities. TJ's men played with passion and inspiration in the rain. After half time the heavens opened sending child and parent alike to the upper tiers. Alas as people watched from the Gods an Eoin Larkin goal ended Limerick dreams. Despite playing Kilkenny off the park for a ten minute period where Limerick outscored their opponents by five points to nil, we left empty handed. Seamus Hickey's post-match interview mirrored the hurt we all felt. He was proud to win man of the match but ultimately he wanted the win. We all did. That day I left Croker wondering just what Limerick had to do in order to win the Liam MacCarthy Cup.

NHL

The Black & Amber jerseys have always made Limerick people more alert. Limerick have never feared Kilkenny, there has been no need to. However when facing them in League and Championship Kilkenny have always shown Limerick teams respect. They know they'll get a physical battle. They know Limerick will throw the kitchen sink at them. They just found ways to get past us. My earliest memories of them go back to the 1983 National Hurling League Final. Limerick had a fine team and having been in the All-Ireland final in 1980 & semifinal in 1981 we fancied our chances of beating them in the League decider in Thurles. Crowds flocked as it was a novelty to play them in a final. There was blood and thunder before they ultimately ran out 2-14 to 2-12 winners. Kilkenny won the Leinster Championship and Limerick lost to Cork in Munster. Kilkenny beat Cork in the all-Ireland final. No disgrace losing to the Cats, but we have always wanted more from these meetings.

One game that stands out between the sides was a league game in Nowlan Park in October 1984. The great Tommy Quaid (RIP) had made a couple of bad errors in the Championship against Cork a few months earlier. He played the majority of the National Hurling League games outfield and he scored 1-3 against Kilkenny in a 5-8 to 1-18 win. Pat McCarthy who would later blitz Clare in the League Final scored a hat trick of goals. Leaving Nowlan Park that day was sweet. Any day you beat Kilkenny in hurling is sweet. One thing that stood out though was the frightening ferocity of the Kilkenny men. Dick O'Hara sported a beard and was like a fearsome looking Viking as he marked Ollie O'Connor. That Kilkenny team were tough men, they could take punishment on the field of play and God bless anyone who tried it on with them.

Over the years the meetings were run of the mill in the National Hurling League. There was a league play off game in 1997 where Limerick demolished Kilkenny en route to winning the NHL title. There was an NHL semi final in Limerick in 2002 which was hot tempered and frantic. Kilkenny won 2-14 to 0-15 but as often happened they admired how Limerick stood up to them. Then came the NHL final of 2006. With Cork having won back to back All-Irelands in 2004/2005 Kilkenny were developing a ruthless new game plan to get goals. Both sides hit fourteen scores apiece but Kilkenny's finishing power was the difference with Kilkenny winning 3-11 to 0-14 in Thurles. It served them well, they won the All-Ireland final four months later.

Championship

Kilkenny & Limerick had met in the 1973 & 1974 All-Ireland finals. We of course won the first with Ritchie Bennis producing hurling from another galaxy to elevate those beautiful Green & White jerseys towards heaven itself. Going for back to back glory we were torn apart in the 74 decider. Amazingly the sides didn't meet again until 2005 mainly due to the muddy waters of Munster but Limerick again hopped off the Cats & gave them something to think about. Unfortunately I couldn't attend this game due to a holiday in Cyprus. Sitting in a bar bedecked in Green & White, one our crew got to his feet shouting 'easy easy easy' as TJ Ryan pointed the opening free of the game. When Kilkenny went in front 0-8 to 0-1 a lot of Kilkenny holiday makers were looking our way singgering. Limerick recovered somewhat, eventually going down by 0-18 to 0-13. Kilkenny went out at the semi final stage so perhaps neither side was at their best.

In 2007 the sides met in the final. Limerick had a most wonderful year including the trilogy of games against Tipperary and a Munster Final appearance. There is a sense that we 'caught' Waterford in the All Ireland semi, but in truth we turned a 9 point Munster Final defeat into a 5-11 to 2-15 win against the Deise. The experience of the final was somewhat surreal. The Sopranos TV show had ended in June that year and Journey's 'Don't Stop Believin' had been rocking the charts. It became somewhat of an anthem for our lads approaching the final. What nobody saw coming was how ruthlessly the Cats would start. 2-3 to 0-0 in an instant. Seamus Hickey getting roughed up by Henry Shefflin before Brian Geary was booked for sticking up for his team mate. After the game Limerick Manager Ritchie Bennis said 'Kilkenny have a ferocity that we aspire to'. Maybe the problem was that we didn't start believin. Either way it was a pleasure to see Limerick in an All-Ireland final. Coppers was too packed that night though - every round had to be a treble when drinking with big bullocks of men.

The 2012 quarter final summed up a lot about battles between both counties. In a frenzied second half period Kilkenny opened Limerick's defence like a freshly caught kipper on a trawler with two deadly goals. Tom Condon had stuck to Henry Shefflin like glue in the first half and still the Kilkenny great scored one of the greatest goals seen in hurling. Limerick man Wayne McNamara had absolutely buckled Richie Power with a shoulder in the second half. Limerick's physicality was never questionable against Kilkenny. But they brought on TJ Reid for Power and Reid was instrumental in our demise. A substitute so good you wouldn't see him on a PlayStation.

The intensity of the 2014 semi final could never be matched so when the sides met in the qualifiers in 2017 Limerick were hoping to shock the home side but ultimately failed. That game however gave us hope that we were getting closer. When we met Kilkenny in the 2018 quarter final we seemed by far the better side but you can't write them off. A Richie Hogan goal late on made it seem like same old story but Tom Morrisey's point showed the new composure in the side. In the past a Limerick man would have lashed it upfield, but he had the confidence to slow down, take a challenge and put the ball over the bar. A Late Shane Dowling free sealed it. Limerick went on to be champions. You cannot beat Kilkenny and then fail to win the All-Ireland. Beat the best, become the best.

Aftermath

The trip to Nowlan Park last February was a memorable day. Limerick produced a performance of sheer brilliance before Kilkenny made the score respectable. You'd be a fool to treat that game as a litmus test for Saturday evening. Kilkenny are the kingpins of the game with more All-Ireland titles than anyone else. While Limerick are favourites that tag never sits well with Limerick teams. We are at our best when written off and we produce a performance. However since winning Liam MacCarthy last August we have powered on to NHL & Munster Championship success. Kilkenny lost the Leinster final but were impressive against Cork. That said, Cork have been conceding massive scores all season even conceding 1-19 when impressively beating Limerick. People say Limerick should win. Our record in All Ireland semifinals since & including 1980 is P10 W5 D1 L4. Interestingly in the last two championship meetings and in the NHL game five months ago, Kilkenny haven't scored a goal. If they rattle the net early on Saturday we could be in for a rollercoaster.

Cody

Sincere hat tip to this man. What he has achieved in hurling is unparalleled. This is his twenty first season as Manager and he has weighed down Kilkenny's trophy cabinet like a fat man sitting on a see saw. His body language, baseball cap and customary post-match handshake with the opposition Manager (despite having words with him through games) will be missed when he leaves his post. It is four years since his team won the big one, he is doing all in his power to put Kilkenny back on top of the pile. A lesser man might be happy with his lot and let his CV do the talking. You always get the feeling that Cody sees his CV as dependent on the next game. Legend.

Kiely

What this man has done for Limerick hurling is unreal. Picture a Skoda Superb with dirty diesel becoming a Ferrari. No matter what happens this year he and his Management team have given us something to be immensely proud of. No matter what happens this year we will have a team to compete in 2020.

Verdict

Don't bet on this one. Save your money for the match and enjoy a horse load of Heineken and Chips.

Luimneach Abú

kilkennyboy

As it drawing closer confidence is beginning to lift.
Things that are different from last year are starting to tip me in our direction.
The run into this has been a big contrast to last year with 3 games in 3 weeks .
We seem to be improving our use of the ball .and getting settled most could name 13 starters for Saturday.
We now have a bench I think he will hold wally and an go with Browne midfield apparently his gps was of the charts v cork 12k in 55mins.
Mullen is some find and he is working so well with his clubmates.
Getting Hogan in beside Colin with his intelligence is a huge plus.
Cody will love this big target to aim for, and sure not a hope .anyone that has ever trained a team love aiming upwards. He dose simifinals well.
15/18
Limerick are a serious outfit but haven't hit the highs of last year .gave their best performance in the Munster final put I'm putting a ? On that .
After early promise tip seem to be searching for answers and wexford could end their summer.
It takes a serious team to go back to back .they could be that but Munster champions haven't faired well recently handling the break can be tricky. Hearing talk of ice cream machines at training last week for the team wouldn't be the Kilkenny way but maybe it will catch on.
We like it fairly hot getting ready for big games.
Just think the shock( to some )is on the cards .this could all sound
Foolish come Saturday night .still gone with €50 Kilkenny-3pts @5/1

grimbergen

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Wouldn't be buying into the hype around lynch .He has 2pts scored in the 4 matches he has played in Munster. Good talker probably secured him hurler of the year last year .I would have given it to hannon or hayes

This has to be a wind-up? He's a magician, kind of player like DJ that we'll be telling the grandkids we saw live.

kilkennyboy

grimbergen wrote: »

This has to be a wind-up? He's a magician, kind of player like DJ that we'll be telling the grandkids we saw live.

Comparing him to dj wiĺl get you a early bed in a nursing home..

v3ttel

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Wouldn't be buying into the hype around lynch .He has 2pts scored in the 4 matches he has played in Munster. Good talker probably secured him hurler of the year last year .I would have given it to hannon or hayes

It's post like this that give the genuine hurling supporters in Kilkenny a bad name.

Measuring Lynch solely by his scores is totally ridiculous. He's a class act, unbelievable work rate, fantastic in the tackle, great reader of the game, moves into space well, and sets up a lot of scores, and makes space for others with good movement. He's now a top class player. No doubt you'd be raving about him if he was wearing our own jersey. Saying that he would hurler of the year because he is a "good talker" is laughable. I struggle to see how anyone could honestly think that, unless they were on the wind up.

kilkennyboy wrote: »

We now have a bench I think he will hold wally and an go with Browne midfield apparently his gps was of the charts v cork 12k in 55mins.

You dismiss Cian Lynch but happily crow about Browne covering 12K in 55 mins vs Cork? Sure isn't the only measure of how well a midfielder plays is how much he scores? Just the 1 point for Conor Browne, poor game surely.

I hope you can see the flaws in your own logic.

tbiggertycome

So after the Cork game I was of the view and it appears to be the consensus among all the serious hurling men I know, "If Limerick play to their full potential they will beat us and beat us well, no matter how well we play". However by Monday last week I was starting to form a new hypothesis which is more optimistic. It's all dependent on picking the right team and more importantly setting up and playing the right way. I think if we do both those things we will beat Limerick. I would expect most of the team v Cork to play again the only changes I would like to see would be Wally, Conor Delaney and James Maher but who would you drop to bring them in? Anyway I'm not going to get too worried about the selection as we're at nothing second guessing Cody this year.

The way I think we can beat Limerick is to mimic how they play and how we used to play when we were in our pomp 5+ years ago. What that entails is playing more or less how we finished against Cork with 5 preferably 6 of our backs inside our own 45 at all times, our midfield and half forwards dropping back to pick up their half forwards and midfield as they try to break through or take long range shots. When we have the ball we can break forward and put good ball into our (hopefully isolated) forwards but I'm sure Limerick will keep it tight again. So I think it will come down to the quality of forwards on show and I think Cork and Tipp (round robin game I know) showed that, with top class forwards there are scores to be got against Limerick. I think our forwards are a different level to what Limerick have. We have TJ, Richie Hogan, Mullen and Leahy which are all really skilfull and the only Limerick player I think that matches them for this is Lynch who can make a sliotar sing and regularly does. I think Limerick have some very good forwards but not of the same quality as the ones I've named above, their forwards rely on strength, speed and a great system of play to get them the space which they exploit and take advantage of brilliantly. If we don't close down that space and congest our side of the field when they have the ball, then I think they will cut us open at will and it could be a very long evening on Saturday. I'm not trying to demean Limerick or their achievements by what I've said about their forwards, I just don't think their as good as ours (but then again I think that about most of our players). I think Colin and Wally are similar to their lads and if we played with a similar system for a while I think our lads would have great success.

So while I think we've improved from last years team that played Limerick, we will also be fresh having had a break before this encounter, Limerick have moved up a serious gear too. Some are putting Limericks improvement down to S&C but I genuinely don't think their any fitter or stronger (it's probably not possible as amateurs) than last year. Where I see the major difference in them is in the top 6 inches. Their even more composed than they were last year and are now playing with a real confidence and swagger which comes with being champions and winners. That confidence and swagger is really hard to counteract but it's something we need to strip them off if we're to win. I think the fact that they've not had a game since the Munster final will be a big opportunity for us to dent their confidence. We at our best were often a bit rusty in the first 15 mins of semi finals and it was normally the second half that we did the real damage to them. I think we need to tear into them from the get go, use the fact that we should be just a fraction sharper and we need to take a every early score, to just make them think and question their confidence a little. We need to get in their faces, harass and chase them incessantly. However we need to keep that up for the full 75mins.

As a knowledgable Tipp man pointed out to be yesterday theirs a big difference in Munster and Leinster hurling in terms of the physicality and intensity that we will bring. Limerick will be able for it but not used to it. We will pose a completely different challenge to them than they faced in Munster. They won't be waltzing through our defence (hopefully)like they did in Munster. We all know their hot favourites but how will they deal with that, if they find themselves behind? Last year they were carefree and playing with abandon but I just wonder how will they react if their seriously challenged now that their carrying the expectation of champions and favourites? It might not faze them at all but it's up to us, to pose those questions of them. I'm not even going to reference the league match as I don't think it will have any bearing on the day there were so many players missing from both sides.

So with all that I'm going against the percieved wisdom of the "hurling cognisantee". If we set up the right way, play the right system and go in with a ravenous hunger, I think we'll win by about 4 points. If we fail to play in the right way I think they will beat us and beat us handy enough in the end. I think this game is in our hands, if we want it, it's there for us.
Will it be easy?
Will it f***! but it can be done and we have the players to do it. I'm looking forward to it now and hopefully we don't go back to silly caveman hurling cause that will only lead to ruin.

Cautiously confident, I think we'll know more after we see the team on Friday and I think the first 5 to 10 mins of the match will tell a huge amount.

An extra bit of info, Buckleys knee is reacting well and is not an issue. The issue I would suggest is his lack of hurling since last October. Whether he's picked or not is another thing but the knee is not hindering him.

BloodyBill

kilkennyboy wrote: »

As it drawing closer confidence is beginning to lift.
Things that are different from last year are starting to tip me in our direction.
The run into this has been a big contrast to last year with 3 games in 3 weeks .
We seem to be improving our use of the ball .and getting settled most could name 13 starters for Saturday.
We now have a bench I think he will hold wally and an go with Browne midfield apparently his gps was of the charts v cork 12k in 55mins.
Mullen is some find and he is working so well with his clubmates.
Getting Hogan in beside Colin with his intelligence is a huge plus.
Cody will love this big target to aim for, and sure not a hope .anyone that has ever trained a team love aiming upwards. He dose simifinals well.
15/18
Limerick are a serious outfit but haven't hit the highs of last year .gave their best performance in the Munster final put I'm putting a ? On that .
After early promise tip seem to be searching for answers and wexford could end their summer.
It takes a serious team to go back to back .they could be that but Munster champions haven't faired well recently handling the break can be tricky. Hearing talk of ice cream machines at training last week for the team wouldn't be the Kilkenny way but maybe it will catch on.
We like it fairly hot getting ready for big games.
Just think the shock( to some )is on the cards .this could all sound
Foolish come Saturday night .still gone with €50 Kilkenny-3pts @5/1

Ice Cream Van's ,not machines..haha. They open the main gate and let the 'Mr Whippy' van in onto the pitch in the stadium.He usually does a lap and keeps the music on and everything while hes there. That's Limerick for you..Kinnerk doesn't let Dowling have a flake cos his diet is specialised.

BloodyBill

tbiggertycome wrote: »

So after the Cork game I was of the view and it appears to be the consensus among all the serious hurling men I know, "If Limerick play to their full potential they will beat us and beat us well, no matter how well we play". However by Monday last week I was starting to form a new hypothesis which is more optimistic. It's all dependent on picking the right team and more importantly setting up and playing the right way. I think if we do both those things we will beat Limerick. I would expect most of the team v Cork to play again the only changes I would like to see would be Wally, Conor Delaney and James Maher but who would you drop to bring them in? Anyway I'm not going to get too worried about the selection as we're at nothing second guessing Cody this year.

The way I think we can beat Limerick is to mimic how they play and how we used to play when we were in our pomp 5+ years ago. What that entails is playing more or less how we finished against Cork with 5 preferably 6 of our backs inside our own 45 at all times, our midfield and half forwards dropping back to pick up their half forwards and midfield as they try to break through or take long range shots. When we have the ball we can break forward and put good ball into our (hopefully isolated) forwards but I'm sure Limerick will keep it tight again. So I think it will come down to the quality of forwards on show and I think Cork and Tipp (round robin game I know) showed that, with top class forwards there are scores to be got against Limerick. I think our forwards are a different level to what Limerick have. We have TJ, Richie Hogan, Mullen and Leahy which are all really skilfull and the only Limerick player I think that matches them for this is Lynch who can make a sliotar sing and regularly does. I think Limerick have some very good forwards but not of the same quality as the ones I've named above, their forwards rely on strength, speed and a great system of play to get them the space which they exploit and take advantage of brilliantly. If we don't close down that space and congest our side of the field when they have the ball, then I think they will cut us open at will and it could be a very long evening on Saturday. I'm not trying to demean Limerick or their achievements by what I've said about their forwards, I just don't think their as good as ours (but then again I think that about most of our players). I think Colin and Wally are similar to their lads and if we played with a similar system for a while I think our lads would have great success.

So while I think we've improved from last years team that played Limerick, we will also be fresh having had a break before this encounter, Limerick have moved up a serious gear too. Some are putting Limericks improvement down to S&C but I genuinely don't think their any fitter or stronger (it's probably not possible as amateurs) than last year. Where I see the major difference in them is in the top 6 inches. Their even more composed than they were last year and are now playing with a real confidence and swagger which comes with being champions and winners. That confidence and swagger is really hard to counteract but it's something we need to strip them off if we're to win. I think the fact that they've not had a game since the Munster final will be a big opportunity for us to dent their confidence. We at our best were often a bit rusty in the first 15 mins of semi finals and it was normally the second half that we did the real damage to them. I think we need to tear into them from the get go, use the fact that we should be just a fraction sharper and we need to take a every early score, to just make them think and question their confidence a little. We need to get in their faces, harass and chase them incessantly. However we need to keep that up for the full 75mins.

As a knowledgable Tipp man pointed out to be yesterday theirs a big difference in Munster and Leinster hurling in terms of the physicality and intensity that we will bring. Limerick will be able for it but not used to it. We will pose a completely different challenge to them than they faced in Munster. They won't be waltzing through our defence (hopefully)like they did in Munster. We all know their hot favourites but how will they deal with that, if they find themselves behind? Last year they were carefree and playing with abandon but I just wonder how will they react if their seriously challenged now that their carrying the expectation of champions and favourites? It might not faze them at all but it's up to us, to pose those questions of them. I'm not even going to reference the league match as I don't think it will have any bearing on the day there were so many players missing from both sides.

So with all that I'm going against the percieved wisdom of the "hurling cognisantee". If we set up the right way, play the right system and go in with a ravenous hunger, I think we'll win by about 4 points. If we fail to play in the right way I think they will beat us and beat us handy enough in the end. I think this game is in our hands, if we want it, it's there for us.
Will it be easy?
Will it f***! but it can be done and we have the players to do it. I'm looking forward to it now and hopefully we don't go back to silly caveman hurling cause that will only lead to ruin.

Cautiously confident, I think we'll know more after we see the team on Friday and I think the first 5 to 10 mins of the match will tell a huge amount.

An extra bit of info, Buckleys knee is reacting well and is not an issue. The issue I would suggest is his lack of hurling since last October. Whether he's picked or not is another thing but the knee is not hindering him.

I'm sorry but theres a disingenuous, dismissive streak that goes throughout that post. The 'if Kilkenny play in the right way they will win but if they dont they ll be beaten' nonsense. Hows this one for you..I think Kilkenny will play fantastically well and in the 'right way' and they ll still be beat. Limerick have better hurlers than Kilkenny at the moment better backs, midfield and forwards. Colin and walter Walsh are fine players...better than fine but could struggle in Kinnerks system. Fennelly because he doesn't look up and Wally because he doesn't have the engine. Leahy is just a loose hurler..I'd rate Reid and Mullen and Hogan in the forwards but again Hogans body is suspect.
The Kilkenny fullback line...?! A disaster waiting to happen. If Limerick dont manage to destroy it ,Tipperary will. The halfback line is growing in stature every game and Fogarty did a great job the last day in helping out. Iv no doubt but Cody will have them well drilled. I'd worry about the layoff for Limerick but then Kinnerk is Kinnerk and he ll have planned ...
I'm looking forward to the unique challenge Kilkenny will bring. May the best team on the day win.

tbiggertycome

BloodyBill wrote: »

tbiggertycome wrote: »

So after the Cork game I was of the view and it appears to be the consensus among all the serious hurling men I know, "If Limerick play to their full potential they will beat us and beat us well, no matter how well we play". However by Monday last week I was starting to form a new hypothesis which is more optimistic. It's all dependent on picking the right team and more importantly setting up and playing the right way. I think if we do both those things we will beat Limerick. I would expect most of the team v Cork to play again the only changes I would like to see would be Wally, Conor Delaney and James Maher but who would you drop to bring them in? Anyway I'm not going to get too worried about the selection as we're at nothing second guessing Cody this year.

The way I think we can beat Limerick is to mimic how they play and how we used to play when we were in our pomp 5+ years ago. What that entails is playing more or less how we finished against Cork with 5 preferably 6 of our backs inside our own 45 at all times, our midfield and half forwards dropping back to pick up their half forwards and midfield as they try to break through or take long range shots. When we have the ball we can break forward and put good ball into our (hopefully isolated) forwards but I'm sure Limerick will keep it tight again. So I think it will come down to the quality of forwards on show and I think Cork and Tipp (round robin game I know) showed that, with top class forwards there are scores to be got against Limerick. I think our forwards are a different level to what Limerick have. We have TJ, Richie Hogan, Mullen and Leahy which are all really skilfull and the only Limerick player I think that matches them for this is Lynch who can make a sliotar sing and regularly does. I think Limerick have some very good forwards but not of the same quality as the ones I've named above, their forwards rely on strength, speed and a great system of play to get them the space which they exploit and take advantage of brilliantly. If we don't close down that space and congest our side of the field when they have the ball, then I think they will cut us open at will and it could be a very long evening on Saturday. I'm not trying to demean Limerick or their achievements by what I've said about their forwards, I just don't think their as good as ours (but then again I think that about most of our players). I think Colin and Wally are similar to their lads and if we played with a similar system for a while I think our lads would have great success.

So while I think we've improved from last years team that played Limerick, we will also be fresh having had a break before this encounter, Limerick have moved up a serious gear too. Some are putting Limericks improvement down to S&C but I genuinely don't think their any fitter or stronger (it's probably not possible as amateurs) than last year. Where I see the major difference in them is in the top 6 inches. Their even more composed than they were last year and are now playing with a real confidence and swagger which comes with being champions and winners. That confidence and swagger is really hard to counteract but it's something we need to strip them off if we're to win. I think the fact that they've not had a game since the Munster final will be a big opportunity for us to dent their confidence. We at our best were often a bit rusty in the first 15 mins of semi finals and it was normally the second half that we did the real damage to them. I think we need to tear into them from the get go, use the fact that we should be just a fraction sharper and we need to take a every early score, to just make them think and question their confidence a little. We need to get in their faces, harass and chase them incessantly. However we need to keep that up for the full 75mins.

As a knowledgable Tipp man pointed out to be yesterday theirs a big difference in Munster and Leinster hurling in terms of the physicality and intensity that we will bring. Limerick will be able for it but not used to it. We will pose a completely different challenge to them than they faced in Munster. They won't be waltzing through our defence (hopefully)like they did in Munster. We all know their hot favourites but how will they deal with that, if they find themselves behind? Last year they were carefree and playing with abandon but I just wonder how will they react if their seriously challenged now that their carrying the expectation of champions and favourites? It might not faze them at all but it's up to us, to pose those questions of them. I'm not even going to reference the league match as I don't think it will have any bearing on the day there were so many players missing from both sides.

So with all that I'm going against the percieved wisdom of the "hurling cognisantee". If we set up the right way, play the right system and go in with a ravenous hunger, I think we'll win by about 4 points. If we fail to play in the right way I think they will beat us and beat us handy enough in the end. I think this game is in our hands, if we want it, it's there for us.
Will it be easy?
Will it f***! but it can be done and we have the players to do it. I'm looking forward to it now and hopefully we don't go back to silly caveman hurling cause that will only lead to ruin.

Cautiously confident, I think we'll know more after we see the team on Friday and I think the first 5 to 10 mins of the match will tell a huge amount.

An extra bit of info, Buckleys knee is reacting well and is not an issue. The issue I would suggest is his lack of hurling since last October. Whether he's picked or not is another thing but the knee is not hindering him.

I'm sorry but theres a disingenuous, dismissive streak that goes throughout that post. The 'if Kilkenny play in the right way they will win but if they dont they ll be beaten' nonsense. Hows this one for you..I think Kilkenny will play fantastically well and in the 'right way' and they ll still be beat. Limerick have better hurlers than Kilkenny at the moment better backs, midfield and forwards. Colin and walter Walsh are fine players...better than fine but could struggle in Kinnerks system. Fennelly because he doesn't look up and Wally because he doesn't have the engine. Leahy is just a loose hurler..I'd rate Reid and Mullen and Hogan in the forwards but again Hogans body is suspect.
The Kilkenny fullback line...?! A disaster waiting to happen. If Limerick dont manage to destroy it ,Tipperary will. The halfback line is growing in stature every game and Fogarty did a great job the last day in helping out. Iv no doubt but Cody will have them well drilled. I'd worry about the layoff for Limerick but then Kinnerk is Kinnerk and he ll have planned ...
I'm looking forward to the unique challenge Kilkenny will bring. May the best team on the day win.

The point you obviously can't take from the post is that I think we're good enough to beat you but only if we have the right approach. If we use our old or default approach of the last few years I think ye will beat us well, I don't see what is disingenuous about that!
Can you tell me you wouldn't be delighted to see us just lump high ball up to your half back line? I think ye'd eat us without salt if we play like that and if you know Limerick at all, you know I'm right. If we allow our half back line to be dragged out into midfield, your forwards will run riot no doubt, or do you think we'd be able to handle your forwards with 40 yards of space in every direction?

However I believe that if we play smart heads up hurling which will not be easy with the pressure ye will bring, then I can see us winning. That's my belief, I'm not asking you to agree but I'm not lying when I say I believe those things.

I'm not going to get into the better hurler this and that, as you rightly believe your lads are better and I believe ours are better. I don't think either of us will convert the other so we can leave that one if that's ok?

savannahkat

BloodyBill wrote: »

I'm sorry but theres a disingenuous, dismissive streak that goes throughout that post. The 'if Kilkenny play in the right way they will win but if they dont they ll be beaten' nonsense. Hows this one for you..I think Kilkenny will play fantastically well and in the 'right way' and they ll still be beat. Limerick have better hurlers than Kilkenny at the moment better backs, midfield and forwards. Colin and walter Walsh are fine players...better than fine but could struggle in Kinnerks system. Fennelly because he doesn't look up and Wally because he doesn't have the engine. Leahy is just a loose hurler..I'd rate Reid and Mullen and Hogan in the forwards but again Hogans body is suspect.
The Kilkenny fullback line...?! A disaster waiting to happen. If Limerick dont manage to destroy it ,Tipperary will. The halfback line is growing in stature every game and Fogarty did a great job the last day in helping out. Iv no doubt but Cody will have them well drilled. I'd worry about the layoff for Limerick but then Kinnerk is Kinnerk and he ll have planned ...
I'm looking forward to the unique challenge Kilkenny will bring. May the best team on the day win.

If that is not as insulting a post as any then i do not know what is. It is not just dismissive but down right insulting. No genuine Limerick hurling follower would believe this drivel and I lived there played there and refereed there to know.

BloodyBill

tbiggertycome wrote: »

The point you obviously can't take from the post is that I think we're good enough to beat you but only if we have the right approach. If we use our old or default approach of the last few years I think ye will beat us well, I don't see what is disingenuous about that!
Can you tell me you wouldn't be delighted to see us just lump high ball up to your half back line? I think ye'd eat us without salt if we play like that and if you know Limerick at all, you know I'm right. If we allow our half back line to be dragged out into midfield, your forwards will run riot no doubt, or do you think we'd be able to handle your forwards with 40 yards of space in every direction?

However I believe that if we play smart heads up hurling which will not be easy with the pressure ye will bring, then I can see us winning. That's my belief, I'm not asking you to agree but I'm not lying when I say I believe those things.

I'm not going to get into the better hurler this and that, as you rightly believe your lads are better and I believe ours are better. I don't think either of us will convert the other so we can leave that one if that's ok?

That's fair. I take your point. You might not be far wrong in your summation.

raindodger

just a general point.Find the build up to the biggest hurling weekend so low key very little on tv or radio i know the golf was massive over the week suppose now it will be the cricket.all the limerick lads seem to be on yere site to grab some news.
Shaping up to be a great battle 6 o clock sat cant come quick enough

kilkennyboy

Roll out the genuine hurling supporters line.maybe think for yourself
and don't wait for the lads on the Sunday game to tell you what happened in games.
No doubt lynch can hurl but the point is comparing him to dj .Henry. canning I'm afraid he is not in that bracket after 4 years.his stats for last year he wasn't in the top 20 in the hole championship for assists and came in at no4 on the limerick team for tackling
legendarystatus is a bit harder to come by he is available at 16/1 for hurler of the year
The same as Brendan Maher who I would put him on par with .your reference to crowing about Brownes stats
He is a chap who played his first ever inter county game and is not guaranteed his starting position that 12k figure could get him the nod.

Pigeon Chaser

I don't know about anybody else, but I will be going up to Croker on Saturday to support the plucky outsider. Hopefully we can keep the ball pucked out to this sublime Limerick team and manage to keep the scoreline respectable..

The_Ghost

As the game is getting closer I’m feeling better about it, little buzz about it and we’re underdogs which suits us fine but of course we’ll say that. Losing to Wexford didn’t prove to be the worst thing in the world (thankfully) as we seemed to have had a right chat with ourselves since. Obviously it’s nice to win silverware though. Seems like the Cork game 2.0 we won’t have enough to beat them etc etc but if we believe we can beat them like we did against cork we’ll be right there I feel. Last year Limericks lads came of age against us I think our lads will come of age this week. Limerick are class hurlers in fairness and they work like absolute dogs which means we won’t be able to play as good as balls in.

Murphy
Murphy Lawor Joey
Deegan Walsh Fogerty
Browne Leahy
Tj Hogan Donnelly
Wally Colin Mullen.

kilkennyboy

The_Ghost wrote: »

As the game is getting closer I’m feeling better about it, little buzz about it and we’re underdogs which suits us fine but of course we’ll say that. Losing to Wexford didn’t prove to be the worst thing in the world (thankfully) as we seemed to have had a right chat with ourselves since. Obviously it’s nice to win silverware though. Seems like the Cork game 2.0 we won’t have enough to beat them etc etc but if we believe we can beat them like we did against cork we’ll be right there I feel. Last year Limericks lads came of age against us I think our lads will come of age this week. Limerick are class hurlers in fairness and they work like absolute dogs which means we won’t be able to play as good as balls in.

Murphy
Murphy Lawor Joey
Deegan Walsh Fogerty
Browne Leahy
Tj Hogan Donnelly
Wally Colin Mullen.

I would say you have the team fairly spot on barring Buckley or Cody move
Where someone like Delaney or darren Mullen get shot in.hogan to a corner maybe .

greenspurs

TJ TEID: I’VE TOLD THE LADS TO TAKE SATURDAY EVENING OFF AS I’ll BEAT LIMERICK ON MY OWN
In an exclusive interview with The Kilkenny Diary, Kilkenny’s hurling talisman TJ Reid has said he’s told the rest of the panel to take Saturday evening off. Reid is so confident of beating the reigning All Ireland champions on his own that he will face the starting Limerick 15 on his own in Saturday’s All Ireland semi final. In another amazing act of generosity, the Ballyhale forward has instructed the official team bus driver to ‘stay at home and spend some time with the missus’ as he has his bus driving test later today and he is confident he will secure his category D license required to drive the team bus himself on Saturday.
‘Ah shura look, I’m just feeling generous is all’ said Reid. ‘Niamh has been onto me all week to let the boys have a bit of time with their women, go to the cinema or whatever. I was contemplating asking Murph to play with me as I wouldn’t be great in goal but **** it sure, I’ll get Richie to pelt a few balls at me in the back garden on Saturday morning to sharpen the goalie reflexes. It’ll be grand. As for the bus, I can always park it up at Newland’s Cross and get the Luas in if I’m having trouble. But I doubt I’ll need it. I could drive the Luas in sure. That’d be a great laugh altogether.’
The Kilkenny County Board issued a statement this morning saying they weren’t aware of Reid’s offer to the rest of the panel and the bus driver but would look into the matter if he allowed them Saturday evening off aswell.

Cornerback1

Should be a great battle on Saturday evening. KK really need, like Cork game, other lads shooting over 3 pts each, instead of relying on T.J. V Cork, mid-fielders chipped in with 4pts. This needs to happen again V Limerick but we'll be a bit move defensive, so maybe hard to see this happening.

Walter got 3pts when he came in so obviously, whatever subs come in, they really need to make an impact on the scoreboard.

Can KK score the same again? Hard to know as they need to be firing on all cylinders. Like Wexford, we need a 95% shot to scoring ratio to get through I think.

Limerick will be score and in every game, they have consistently had a good range of scorers.

Croke Park will be different though and it'll be interesting to see how Limerick react to a bit of a layoff. Will KK's advantage of playing in Croke Park twice in recent weeks help them? Hopefully it will!

Need to compress the space between full-back line and half-back line with mid-fielders sitting deep. Cork game, after 15mins, was a good template for this setup. Workrate needs to be off the charts back out the field though.

Benches will be the key though - who comes in and what difference will they make? Can they make an impact on the scoreboard?

robwen

The 44 man panel Kilkenny have been working off this year from the Kilkenny People..