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The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

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12357…28

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    #122
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Why assume it's a he? Has someone been arrested? Likely but we should never assume. Gangs of girls or lads can both be prone to violence as has been seen before.

    Some on here are assuming / hoping it's someone who is not ethnically Irish.

    As if that'll make it somehow worse.


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    #123
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    So, because the legal system sometimes makes mistakes... your response to this, is to NEVER properly punish anyone who is found guilty of a serious crime!? :o

    The legal system doesn't work on absolutes... rarely anyway. It's beyond reasonable doubt. So there is usually always some potential for mistakes.

    But people found guilty still need to be punished correctly. And for some crimes, the correct punishment is death.

    Could you point out where I have said this?


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    #124
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Why assume it's a he? Has someone been arrested? Likely but we should never assume. Gangs of girls or lads can both be prone to violence as has been seen before.

    Some on here are assuming / hoping it's someone who is not ethnically Irish.

    As if that'll make it somehow worse.

    I was hoping it was someone 18 so they're tried as an adult but doesn't look that way.
    Doesn't really matter to the family of it was a 13 year old Irish classmate or a 30 year old immigrant and it shouldn't matter to us either pressing any agendas we have.


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    #125
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    I was hoping it was someone 18 so they're tried as an adult but doesn't look that way.
    Doesn't really matter to the family of it was a 13 year old Irish classmate or a 30 year old immigrant and it shouldn't matter to us either pressing any agendas we have.

    That is entirely my point.


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    #126
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Could you point out where I have said this?

    Sure... you don't agree with the death penalty, because it's possible that an innocent person could be put to death.

    Our legal system is not perfect. But that doesn't mean we should hand down soft lenient sentences, just because of that fact.

    The answer is to improve the legal system, so that a lower % of innocent people get convicted.... But at the same time, we should continue to hand down severe sentences for serious crimes!

    Some serious crimes deserve the death sentence. Such a sentence is often in the best interest of public safety!


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    #127
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭emo72


    Live local to this. I'm sure the police will work out what happened. Already heard rumours of a man in his 20s, then 2 teenage girls. Now a teenage boy.

    Goes to show how rumours get legs and the truth is we know nothing yet.

    I do actually think this is one of the worst murders ever.
    Devastating for the area.


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    #128
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Why assume it's a he? Has someone been arrested? Likely but we should never assume. Gangs of girls or lads can both be prone to violence as has been seen before.

    the same sources that say it’s a 13 year old say it is a boy


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    #129
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ThinkProgress wrote:
    Some serious crimes deserve the death sentence. Such a sentence is often in the best interest of public safety!


    Disagree there, the death sentence is barbaric, but I will admit, some individuals are probably unrehabilitatable


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    #130
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,073 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    the same sources that say it’s a -3 year old day it is a boy

    Pure speculation going on in this thread since last night . Then we get the chinese whispers and bits added on . So far no one has been arrested .


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    #131
    Ray Donovan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Ray Donovan


    tretorn wrote: »
    Its not irrelevant if they come from a background where women can be murdered without serious conseuquences.
    Another non national was convicted this week of attacking three women, if he hadnt been caught he would have ended up murdering someone as his attacks were very vicious.

    I dont know whether you are a man tatranska but if you are you dont get to say nationality is irrelevant. It isnt relevant to you if you are a man because you wont be attacked and dragged down a street with a belt around your neck and then tied up with cable because someone thinks women who go out wunccovered and without a man with them is asking to be sexually assaulted. This is what the piece of scum who was convicted this week did, one woman was attacked on her way to work.

    Another woman was harassed on a bus and when she got off the bus she was followed home by her harasser and raped in the hallway of her home, another non national. These people can commit these crimes in their country of origin and no one cares so they think they can come here and do the same.

    If these horrible people are non nationals then this needs to be reported. It needs to be reported so that whatever led to this attack can be investigated and if part of it is cultural attitudes to women then its relevant to the murder enquiry.

    We need to be keeping statistics of ethnic background in cases of attacks on women and if this is not PC then too bad, protecting womens safety has to be the priority here.

    Couldnt agree more. And just for clarity this is what we are up against... http://www.thejournal.ie/man-rape-followed-home-3848981-Feb2018/?amp=1


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    #132
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Disagree there, the death sentence is barbaric, but I will admit, some individuals are probably unrehabilitatable

    If this girl had been attacked and killed by a dog... would you consider it barbaric to end that dog's life?

    Yet humans, as animals, are capable of far greater cruelty and premeditation than any other animal.

    This girl wasn't just killed. It appears she was put through a cruel ordeal, before she died.

    My point is, some humans are far worse than animals. Yet it's somehow "barbaric" to end their life!? Doesn't make much sense to me...


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    #133
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Ray Donovan wrote: »
    Couldnt agree more. And just for clarity this is what we are up against... http://www.thejournal.ie/man-rape-followed-home-3848981-Feb2018/?amp=1

    Sorry but where is this speculation about non nationals coming from


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    #134
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,180 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Sorry but where is this speculation about non nationals coming from

    Their holes mainly. Its always the foreigners fault.


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    #135
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Sorry but where is this speculation about non nationals coming from

    From sad xenophobic inbreds.


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    #136
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    If this girl had been attacked and killed by a dog... would you consider it barbaric to end that dog's life?

    Yet humans, as animals, are capable of far greater cruelty and premeditation than any other animal.

    This girl wasn't just killed. It appears she was put through a cruel ordeal, before she died.

    My point is, some humans are far worse than animals. Yet it's somehow "barbaric" to end their life!? Doesn't make much sense to me...

    fair point, but again, i disagree, humans can indeed behave in very disturbing ways, such as this case, but killing a killer doesnt actually solve these kind of complex social issues. we must try understand why some behave in such ways, try rehabilitate them, if possible, in order to try prevent it from happening again, not just with the individual(s) involved, but we other potential murderers in society. this process cannot be done with creating another dead person.


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    #137
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    I've nothing against xenophobia actually its everyone's right to not like whoever they want and nobody is going to tell me which groups to like and not like, I'll make my own mind up there thanks, but when a crime is committed and nobody has any clue who did it I'd gladly put money on it being an Irish person.
    Statistically it's highly unlikely to be a foreign person.


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    #138
    Mokuba
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭Mokuba


    Deeply upsetting.

    It's horrifying to me to imagine her last few minutes of life.


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    #139
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    I can't believe this happened in Ireland, and worse the way people aren't that shocked anymore, murder has become too much the norm nowadays.


    RIP

    People are very shocked


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    #140
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Everything about this that i have heard just keeps sounding more and more disturbing.
    I do not know how this poor girl must have felt, no doubt being ridiculed as she was being killed. :mad::mad::mad:

    On the surface, this is nearly the exact same way that Jamie Bulger was murdered.
    If this does turn out that another child or children murdered the poor girl, they should be tried as adults and serve maximum time in prison.

    I remember the anger of the locals smashing the van as the Jon Venables and Robert Thompson were being taken away. They were very lucky that the police caught them first.
    https://youtu.be/upiTb6ZfJa0?t=483


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    #141
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    well she was led there or went feeling unthreatened anyway which means she knew them well. wasn't that a local hang out or kissing spot as they say?
    If she was abducted then she'd have been found far far away if at all. According to descriptions of the scene, it was done in blind rage so if it was another girl/girls there'll be acrimony splashed on her and their social media, threat of stealing a boy and the likes, her friends will know if anyone had it in for her and I think it will be wrapped up very soon. Is it too hard to imagine it was kids?? if you look at the feral scumbags posting videos of hurting people on line daily?? absolute dirt.
    I see an arrest soon I think because to leave bloodied sticks and rocks, whilst stripping her of her clothes, all at the scene, smacks of someone who didn't plan for it to end that way.


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    #142
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Britain can detain teenagers for life (its detention not prison) and that’s in the sentencing.

    Politicians used to be able to decide to keep people imprisoned at their discretion for life sentences but that was overturned by the ECHR. Actually one of the killers of bulger took the case.


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    #143
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    I really don’t know the law in Ireland for juveniles. Anybody care to comment.


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    #144
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    Sure... you don't agree with the death penalty, because it's possible that an innocent person could be put to death.

    Our legal system is not perfect. But that doesn't mean we should hand down soft lenient sentences, just because of that fact.

    The answer is to improve the legal system, so that a lower % of innocent people get convicted.... But at the same time, we should continue to hand down severe sentences for serious crimes!

    Some serious crimes deserve the death sentence. Such a sentence is often in the best interest of public safety!

    As I knew you couldn’t


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    #145
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    I've only seen some of this myself. RIP to the poor girl. Hope they hunt down these twisted little scrotes and lock em up for the rest of their days.


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    #146
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    I really don’t know the law in Ireland for juveniles. Anybody care to comment.


    The age of criminal responsibility is 12, 10 for murder and rape. Above the age of 12 they are subject to the same laws as adults. Generally a child will first be referred to the Juvenile Diversion program and if found unsuitable will be sent for prosecution in the Childrens Court. For cases of murder and rape these are sent forward to the Central Criminal Court. There are procedural differences in regards to reporting, questioning and the likes but the process is much the same as an adult trial.


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    #147
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Poor, poor child. I know I could not continue living while the bastard who murdered my child was still breathing, regardless of age. I hope her family find someway of dealing with this horrible, vile murder that has happened their family.


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    #148
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Sorry but where is this speculation about non nationals coming from

    Em, the number of non nationals appearing before our courts on very serious sexual assault charges against women.

    Its the same as saying travellers are responsible for most of the crimes committed against elderly people in their homes. Travellers are mostly responsible for the burglaries committed off the M%) too.

    This is not to say all travellers are burglars but statisically a traveller is more likely to be a burglar than not.

    People who grow up in societies where people are treated badly are statisically more likely to sexually assault women who are alone going about their daily business.


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    #149
    KathleenGrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭KathleenGrant


    tretorn wrote: »
    Its not irrelevant if they come from a background where women can be murdered without serious conseuquences.

    If they are non-nationals they came here for a reason, to work, to draw social welfare, to leave another life behind. They knew enough about this country to come here, being from a different culture is a bull**** excuse.


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    #150
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    All some people here are short of doing in getting a lynch mob organised and arriving in leixlip to hang Johnny foreigner or some unsuspecting traveller.

    Will you get a grip of yourselves?

    You can be sure someone associated with this girls family will see this sh1te and it's not pleasant reading.


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    #151
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Congratulations. Darwin award incoming.

    You don’t accept that there are countries in the world where the rape and violent murder of women by men goes largely unpunished?


This discussion has been closed.
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