The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

JaMarcus

Independent are reporting that a 13 year old boy is the suspect, which is confirming what has been heard by locals in Lucan (or at least 2 that I spoke to earlier today).

Absolutely grim that one child could do this to another. Has there ever been such a case in this country before? If the culprit is someone of that age (13/14) - what usually happens? Is there a precedent? Genuine questions as I've no idea how this could play out.

Summer wind

So very sorry shocked and stunned to hear this awful horrible news. The poor child got an awful death. She must have went through agony and been absolutely terrified. I have a son of 13 and it's my worst nightmare that anything should happen to him. Her parents and brother must be absolutely heartbroken. I hope whoever killed Ana is found and when they are they should never again see the outside of a prison cell.

Kermit.de.frog

Jesus, RIP


Undoubtedly one of the most horrendous murders in the history of the state.


There will be serious consequences for who did this from this murder either way but if the suspected perpetrator is part of the "new Irish" expect another level of reaction. This type of horror is what gets people really worried.

ChikiChiki

JaMarcus wrote: »

Independent are reporting that a 13 year old boy is the suspect, which is confirming what has been heard by locals in Lucan (or at least 2 that I spoke to earlier today).

Absolutely grim that one child could do this to another. Has there ever been such a case in this country before? If the culprit is someone of that age (13/14) - what usually happens? Is there a precedent? Genuine questions as I've no idea how this could play out.

*If thats the case then we could be on uncharted waters. I cannot think of similar anyway. My own opinion is if one human can do such a thing to another they should spend a lifetime in confinement in the interests of justice and public safety without a seconds thought. They are likely beyond redemption.

fermanagh_man

To think a child or number of children possibly did this is pretty mind boggling.

ThinkProgress

Poor girl...

If we lived in a different country, and perhaps a different time... the vermin who committed this disgusting crime, would be swiftly executed. (irrespective of their age)

But sadly, whoever did this is unlikely to face any serious punishment. Certainly nothing that remotely fits the heinous nature of their crime!

Tipsy McSwagger

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Poor girl...

If we lived in a different country, and perhaps a different time... the vermin who committed this disgusting crime, would be swiftly executed. (irrespective of their age)

But sadly, whoever did this is unlikely to face any serious punishment. Certainly nothing that remotely fits the heinous nature of their crime!

I have 2 words for you Timothy Evans.

Sleeper12

It's so sad. Every parents worse nightmare. My thoughts are with her family and friends.

ThinkProgress

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I have 2 words for you Timothy Evans.

Innocent people die all the time. Unfortunate fact of life...

But that still doesn't alter the fact that guilty people, who commit disgusting crimes, need to be punished. And punishment needs to match the crime!

I also have 2 names for you: Robert Thompson and Jon Venables!

What possible good comes from having people like that still alive and potentially walking the streets? (and in this part of the world, it is highly likely that this young Girl's killer(s) will walk the streets again - sadly)

judeboy101

JaMarcus wrote: »

Independent are reporting that a 13 year old boy is the suspect, which is confirming what has been heard by locals in Lucan (or at least 2 that I spoke to earlier today).

Absolutely grim that one child could do this to another. Has there ever been such a case in this country before? If the culprit is someone of that age (13/14) - what usually happens? Is there a precedent? Genuine questions as I've no idea how this could play out.

Oberstown holiday camp til 18 then new identity

alane20

First of all deepest condolences to the family, as a father of 3 children 2 of which are beautiful little women 7&8 I'm truly worried about life going forward, I'm only 37 but may aswell be 107 when I compare me been 14 to the lads of today,
I just truly hope the lad/lads at fault for this are on the verge of a mental breakdown thinking every noise they hear is the sound of a cop car pulling up outside, and I beg the judge that they stand in front of is a family man with a daughter of this poor girls age,
Animals like this are broken, un fixable, please send a clear message and lock these animals away for a long long time,

This will never offer closure to the family of a beautiful young woman who had the world in front of her, but Jesus Christ please let the courts not add insult to huge grief and devalue her life with a soft touch sentence

Galwayguy35

If it does turn out that the killer(s) are teenagers then they should be tried as adults if it's legally possible to do this.

uck51js9zml2yt

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Jesus, RIP


Undoubtedly one of the most horrendous murders in the history of the state.


There will be serious consequences for who did this from this murder either way but if the suspected perpetrator is part of the "new Irish" expect another level of reaction. This type of horror is what gets people really worried.

It could have been anyone! Their origins are irrelevant. Just look at the Jamie bolger case. 2 young local kids.

tretorn

Its not irrelevant if they come from a background where women can be murdered without serious conseuquences.
Another non national was convicted this week of attacking three women, if he hadnt been caught he would have ended up murdering someone as his attacks were very vicious.

I dont know whether you are a man tatranska but if you are you dont get to say nationality is irrelevant. It isnt relevant to you if you are a man because you wont be attacked and dragged down a street with a belt around your neck and then tied up with cable because someone thinks women who go out wunccovered and without a man with them is asking to be sexually assaulted. This is what the piece of scum who was convicted this week did, one woman was attacked on her way to work.

Another woman was harassed on a bus and when she got off the bus she was followed home by her harasser and raped in the hallway of her home, another non national. These people can commit these crimes in their country of origin and no one cares so they think they can come here and do the same.

If these horrible people are non nationals then this needs to be reported. It needs to be reported so that whatever led to this attack can be investigated and if part of it is cultural attitudes to women then its relevant to the murder enquiry.

We need to be keeping statistics of ethnic background in cases of attacks on women and if this is not PC then too bad, protecting womens safety has to be the priority here.

Heres Johnny

alane20 wrote: »

First of all deepest condolences to the family, as a father of 3 children 2 of which are beautiful little women 7&8 I'm truly worried about life going forward, I'm only 37 but may aswell be 107 when I compare me been 14 to the lads of today,
I just truly hope the lad/lads at fault for this are on the verge of a mental breakdown thinking every noise they hear is the sound of a cop car pulling up outside, and I beg the judge that they stand in front of is a family man with a daughter of this poor girls age,
Animals like this are broken, un fixable, please send a clear message and lock these animals away for a long long time,

This will never offer closure to the family of a beautiful young woman who had the world in front of her, but Jesus Christ please let the courts not add insult to huge grief and devalue her life with a soft touch sentence

It's an isolated incident. Most lads of 14 today are the same as me and you were. Im 37 too. There were always people capable of this around. 1994 when we were 14 was around the Jamie Bulger time. There was a teenager that killed and crucified (yes, on a cross) a younger child in the attic of a house in Palmerstown only down the road in the late 60s or 70s.
So I don't think it's like it's going to be common in the future or anything. It probably will happen again and it's the worst thing that could have possibly happened to that family but I don't think it's going to be more common.

Are Am Eye

JaMarcus wrote: »

Has there ever been such a case in this country before?

In 1974 there was a murder in Palmerstown seven year old victim and culprit was ~fifteen

If the culprit is someone of that age (13/14) - what usually happens? Is there a precedent? Genuine questions as I've no idea how this could play out.

Over the age of twelve they can be charged and convicted of a criminal offence.

Age of Criminal Responsibility
On 16 October 2006, under the Children Act 2001, the age of criminal responsibility was effectively raised from 7 to 12 years. Under the new provisions, no child under the age of 12 years can be charged with an offence. An exception is made for 10 and 11 year-olds charged with very serious offences, such as unlawful killing, a rape offence or aggravated sexual assault. In addition, the Director of Public Prosecutions must give consent for any child under the age of 14 years to be charged.[

Sundew

dublinbuster wrote: »

Why cant we have a referendum on the death penalty, a 3 strikes law or proper serious hard time in jail for criminals.

We did around 2002.....the public voted to remove the death penalty off the statue books. I recall voting to keep it. New Superjail is so badly needed. Dangerous criminals need to be locked up for a very very long time and not come through the revolving door system. I can’t think of anything worse then loosing a loved one in a violent manner and not getting proper justice in this country.

pjohnson

tretorn wrote: »

Its not irrelevant if they come from a background where women can be murdered without serious conseuquences.
Another non national was convicted this week of attacking three women, if he hadnt been caught he would have ended up murdering someone as his attacks were very vicious.

I dont know whether you are a man tatranska but if you are you dont get to say nationality is irrelevant. It isnt relevant to you if you are a man because you wont be attacked and dragged down a street with a belt around your neck and then tied up with cable because someone thinks women who go out wunccovered and without a man with them is asking to be sexually assaulted. This is what the piece of scum who was convicted this week did, one woman was attacked on her way to work.

Another woman was harassed on a bus and when she got off the bus she was followed home by her harasser and raped in the hallway of her home, another non national. These people can commit these crimes in their country of origin and no one cares so they think they can come here and do the same.

If these horrible people are non nationals then this needs to be reported. It needs to be reported so that whatever led to this attack can be investigated and if part of it is cultural attitudes to women then its relevant to the murder enquiry.

We need to be keeping statistics of ethnic background in cases of attacks on women and if this is not PC then too bad, protecting womens safety has to be the priority here.

Congratulations. Darwin award incoming.

Snake Plisken

If he is 13, he was able to go home and act normally and go to school for 3 days without any remorse for what he did, that says to me that he is a dangerous physcopath!
Some comments on Facebook blaming Videogames but I think it’s more down to the violent degrading porn that they are watching online that makes them think it’s ok to threat girls this way.
He probably won’t be trialed as an adult and will be out and about within 5 or 6 years Free time do something like this again.

Tipsy McSwagger

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Innocent people die all the time. Unfortunate fact of life...

But that still doesn't alter the fact that guilty people, who commit disgusting crimes, need to be punished. And punishment needs to match the crime!

I also have 2 names for you: Robert Thompson and Jon Venables!

What possible good comes from having people like that still alive and potentially walking the streets? (and in this part of the world, it is highly likely that this young Girl's killer(s) will walk the streets again - sadly)

Do these innocent people who die all the time get sentenced to death for a crime they haven’t committed?

pjohnson

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Do these innocent people who die all the time get sentenced to death for a crime they haven’t committed?

Ah dont worry. No one will face consequences for this anyway.

flazio

Snake Plisken wrote: »

If he is 13, he was able to go home and act normally and go to school for 3 days without any remorse for what he did, that says to me that he is a dangerous physcopath!
Some comments on Facebook blaming Videogames but I think it’s more down to the violent degrading porn that they are watching online that makes them think it’s ok to threat girls this way.
He probably won’t be trialed as an adult and will be out and about within 5 or 6 years Free time do something like this again.

You seem to think that there is no chance of even attempting rehabilitation, without even knowing the individual involved. The person is sick in the head no doubt, but rather than just lock them up and just forget their existence for whatever amount of years, someone has the job of finding out why and to find out if there's a way to dig out the remorse for what they've done. If there isn't then absolutely keep them away from society for the rest of their lives but maybe with therapy and strong medication, there could be a way back. Of course it'd have to be far away from the scene of the crime.
I know there is no way back for the family of that poor girl but vengeance is never justice.

Wombatman

The Mirror seem to be trying to bring bad taste to a new level.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/tragic-schoolgirl-anastasia-kriegel-lured-12559199

Officers hope an expected treasure trove of DNA from the makeshift weapons used to kill Ana will identify the killers.

A "treasure trove of DNA". FFS.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ChikiChiki wrote: »

*If thats the case then we could be on uncharted waters. I cannot think of similar anyway. My own opinion is if one human can do such a thing to another they should spend a lifetime in confinement in the interests of justice and public safety without a seconds thought. They are likely beyond redemption.

The British have a concept of life within parole even for under 18s. Here I doubt if he will get 5 years.

Collie D

If her killer is as young as is being speculated do we have any history of trying juveniles as adults in this country?

I'd imagine there are going to be some big legal and ethical decisions for the Guards and DPP to face.

BarryD2

Snake Plisken wrote: »

If he is 13, he was able to go home and act normally and go to school for 3 days without any remorse for what he did, that says to me that he is a dangerous physcopath!
....

He probably won’t be trialed as an adult and will be out and about within 5 or 6 years Free time do something like this again.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The British have a concept of life within parole even for under 18s. Here I doubt if he will get 5 years.

Why assume it's a he? Has someone been arrested? Likely but we should never assume. Gangs of girls or lads can both be prone to violence as has been seen before.

anewme

flazio wrote: »

You seem to think that there is no chance of even attempting rehabilitation, without even knowing the individual involved. The person is sick in the head no doubt, but rather than just lock them up and just forget their existence for whatever amount of years, someone has the job of finding out why and to find out if there's a way to dig out the remorse for what they've done. If there isn't then absolutely keep them away from society for the rest of their lives but maybe with therapy and strong medication, there could be a way back. Of course it'd have to be far away from the scene of the crime.
I know there is no way back for the family of that poor girl but vengeance is never justice.

Concerns in the first instance should be with the family, no tears or worries about making sure the hateful individual responsible for this is rehabilitated and given therapy and medication.

.

Heres Johnny

BarryD2 wrote: »

Snake Plisken wrote: »

If he is 13, he was able to go home and act normally and go to school for 3 days without any remorse for what he did, that says to me that he is a dangerous physcopath!
....

He probably won’t be trialed as an adult and will be out and about within 5 or 6 years Free time do something like this again.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The British have a concept of life within parole even for under 18s. Here I doubt if he will get 5 years.

Why assume it's a he? Has someone been arrested? Likely but we should never assume. Gangs of girls or lads can both be prone to violence as has been seen before.

It is a boy

ThinkProgress

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Do these innocent people who die all the time get sentenced to death for a crime they haven’t committed?

So, because the legal system sometimes makes mistakes... your response to this, is to NEVER properly punish anyone who is found guilty of a serious crime!?

The legal system doesn't work on absolutes... rarely anyway. It's beyond reasonable doubt. So there is usually always some potential for mistakes.

But people found guilty still need to be punished correctly. And for some crimes, the correct punishment is death.

Are Am Eye

Collie D wrote: »

If her killer is as young as is being speculated do we have any history of trying juveniles as adults in this country?

I'd imagine there are going to be some big legal and ethical decisions for the Guards and DPP to face.

With a juvenile before the Courts there would be restrictions on public reporting by the media. Like all juvenile hearings they would be held in camera Names wouldn't be given out in the media.

The legal definitions of Crimes such as murder, rape or section 4 of the NFOAP do not take account of age. In other words a fifteen year old committing murder is the same as a thirty five year old doing so.

What is different is how our Courts, Prison System and Health(Mental) System deal with a Juvenile.