The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

gozunda

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Harassment is the catch all offence

[Url]ttp://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/10/enacted/en/html[/url]

I once mentioned that in regard to bullying to a legal professional and unfortunately as far as they knew no cases of bullying have ever been successfully tried under the act ...

gozunda

Dial Hard wrote: »

I know absolutely nothing about poor Ana's case but my niece is also a first year student in the school and was subjected to absolutely vicious bullying earlier this year. An Instagram account was set up for this express purpose and when it was brought to the attention of the school, the principal was horrified, but didn't ultimately do a whole lot about it. Certainly the Gardaí weren't involved at any stage.

My brother showed me the messages involved. I'd consider myself a very tough cookie but I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's not just the sentiment involved, it's the fact that someone actually felt the need to take the time and effort involved in setting up an Instagram account, sitting down, thinking about and actually typing out the very lengthy messages to my niece telling her how much they hate her. That at no point did they go "Hang on a sec, maybe this isn't really funny/warranted/a bit of a laugh".

It literally beggars belief the cruelty some teens are capable of. Nothing will ever bring Ana back to her family but I hope to God they see some semblance of justice done.

I reckon it's about time bullying is dealt with properly. Too many believe "ah sure it's just a bit if banter etc" and turn a blind eye ...

Your story and that of Ana remind me of a book that used to a part of the English curriculum and whilst nearly a century old - fairly well describes this type of brutal and vicious behaviour

If you have ever read Lord of the Flies - the similarities remain relevant even today imo ..

Mutant z

knucklehead6 wrote: »

I feel strangely conflicted. I have the tiniest degree of sympathy for the kid who’s about to be arrested, and his family.

I’d rather it was some over 18 yr old scumbag that could have the full weight of the law thrown at them.

He's scum of the earth he deserves no sympathy what is it with people who try to defend these lowlife creatures what if it was their own child that was killed in such a horrible way.

Mutant z

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Assetbacked wrote: »

No further update on arrests in the media but hopefully, as they’ve reported, they are imminent. Then, subject to anonymity in terms of reporting of the identities in case it prejudices a fair trial, the full details of the crime will emerge and the perpetrators will feel, not just the brunt of the law of the state; but the arbitrary, albeit righteous, brutal fist of mob and vigilante justice. Depraved and inhuman creatures, unworthy of enjoying in any way the rest of their lives.

Are you going to hit them with your keyboard?

You can't blame others for feeling angry I'm sure you would if it was your own child that had been tortured and killed by vermin.

knucklehead6

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am not having a go but am interested to know why you would have sympathy for anyone who could inflict such horror on a child and her family ?
Feeling sympathy for his family I do get but I cannot understand it for him ?

Cos whoever it is he/they are little more than a child themselves. The kids involved are 13 or 14. And their lives will never meet whatever potential they had as a kid making their communion, as a kid who made their confirmation last year.

What sort of an upbringing did they have to do this? Why would they kill a classmate? What drove them to it.

shamrock55

The next referendum I want is to bring back the death penalty

iamwhoiam

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Cos whoever it is he/they are little more than a child themselves. The kids involved are 13 or 14. And their lives will never meet whatever potential they had as a kid making their communion, as a kid who made their confirmation last year.

What sort of an upbringing did they have to do this? Why would they kill a classmate? What drove them to it.

I understand what you are saying but reading about the crime scene and how Ana died I would find it very hard to feel even a fleeting second of sympathy . Many kids have a tough upbringing and didn't resort to this horrible thing
All my sympathy and thiughts are for Anas poor family . Imagine for one second their raw raw pain

evolving_doors

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I know more then you!

This is what you said you know of the current school in question:

Sounds like a bully culture exists there and the Principle hasn’t stamped it out so they should be questioned about their lack of action.

I'll repeat, you don't know Jack about that school or what the Principal did or didn't do, or even if the Principal had any part to play in it.

Snake Plisken wrote: »

My kids go to <snip> and that incident that I mentioned happened in one of the empty unfinished houses in Adamstown! I don’t want to elaborate but cops were involved and the girl was wrongly picked on afterwards and the Principle had to step in to stop it!

That's fine, that's the version you got and you built an assumption on the Principal's actions around that. But that was one incident by your own admission 'a few years ago'. How you can infer that the current school isn't acting appropriately as a school did years ago for one particular incident. That's not fair as the circumstances are ALWAYS different and each case on it's own merits.

I think that incident could have happened to any student from any school despite interventions. I'm not saying that if a school did X or y it wouldn't have made a difference, we just don't know.
The Gardai are still trying to build a picture, NEPS will follow on with school support and try to see if things could have been handled better (I hope!), or maybe they might find that it was out of the schools hands.

This didn't happen in the school.

orangerhyme

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Fair point. It’s widely assumed that it’s at least two.

But I’d prefer if they were over 18. There’s a part of me thinks they will get treated a bit easier cos they’re kids. And their families will have to leave the area

I'm guessing that explains the delay in DNA results and arrests.
More than one offender, different DNA samples, conflicting stories, police need to be sure particularly when dealing with 13/14 year olds

SirChenjin

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am not having a go but am interested to know why you would have sympathy for anyone who could inflict such horror on a child and her family ?
Feeling sympathy for his family I do get but I cannot understand it for him ?

Agree.

I cannot fathom how anyone could do this. I just can't. I do hope that the perpetrator(s) of such a horrific crime are brought to justice.

Larbre34

shamrock55 wrote: »

The next referendum I want is to bring back the death penalty

No so long as we remain in the EU.

And it was removed by 62-38, a chasm in Irish terms. The only way it would ever return would be under Martial Law after some massive upheaval like war or societal breakdown.

Mutant z

shamrock55 wrote: »

The next referendum I want is to bring back the death penalty

Its certainly horrible stuff like this which make it extremely hard to oppose the death penalty.

Strazdas

Mutant z wrote: »

Its certainly horrible stuff like this which make it extremely hard to oppose the death penalty.

It won't ever happen. You cannot be a member state of the EU and have the death penalty : they view it as a fundamental violation of human rights.

TomOnBoard

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Fcuking evil little scumbags. I hope their lives come to a brutal end when they're inside. I hope they suffer emotionally, physically, I hope they are raped to death. I'll take the red card for that one.

The events of the past two weeks are truly beyond comprehension. I just don't and can't understand. Two young women set out in broad daylight, one was raped and murdered, the other abducted and murdered.

I am absolutely relieved to my core that the second murdering b@stard was shot dead. I hope he suffered right until his final breath. And I will be sick to my stomach if these other cretins aren't made an absolute example of and an exception is not made to go harder than the current justice system will allow.

Jastine was a 5 foot woman walking home from work, Ana was a fourteen year old child in a public park. It doesn't matter what the statistics show about violence against men. In most if not all circumstances, women are indefensible against a man with designs on violence or assault against them. This is not acceptable.

You're conflating two horrible killings as though they were somehow part of the same event or set of circumstances when in fact, they had absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. And your first sentiment is grotesque IMHO.

Ken.

Anyone else pissed off with the thread title. The word tragic to me implies an accident of some sort.

TomOnBoard

gozunda wrote: »

I reckon it's about time bullying is dealt with properly. Too many believe "ah sure it's just a bit if banter etc" and turn a blind eye ...

Your story and that of Ana remind me of a book that used to a part of the English curriculum and whilst nearly a century old - fairly well describes this type of brutal and vicious behaviour

If you have ever read Lord of the Flies - the similarities remain relevant even today imo ..

+1

Mutant z

Putinbot wrote: »

Anyone else pissed off with the thread title. The word tragic to me implies an accident of some sort.

Or an illness such as cancer but this was murder in the most horrible way by lowlife scum of the earth so tragic certainly isn't the right word but horrific murder is.

Bananaleaf

As a secondary school teacher, this story makes me sad. But, the shocking part of this story for me was the fact that it didn't shock me.

Teenagers are cruel cruel beings. I've read some disgusting messages sent by first year students to one another. I've also lost two of my pupils to suicide in the past 4 years - because of online bullying - and I will tell you this, I will never have children. I don't know how parents sleep at night.

We are trying in schools, we really are, but we don't understand the depth of technology ourselves. It's scary. We had an expert in a few weeks ago to talk to them and it was like he was speaking a different language.

Assetbacked

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Are you going to hit them with your keyboard?

I would not surrender my own freedoms unless it was my own child. However, I am disgusted by this murder and am merely stating that the perpetrators do not deserve to just get a custodial sentence but also deserve to never have a comfortable life, ever. I would very happily disclose their identities should I ever know of them.

SEPT 23 1989

Why have the killers not presented themselves at the Garda station?

Ken.

Mutant z wrote: »

Or an illness such as cancer but this was murder in the most horrible way by lowlife scum of the earth so tragic certainly isn't the right word but horrific murder is.

A compromise of sorts.

washman3

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why have the killers not presented themselves at the Garda station?

It speaks volumes for the parents..!!
Plus, the judicial system (I mean judicial industry) have to make as much dosh as possible out of this.

Chuck_Norris

Putinbot wrote: »

Anyone else pissed off with the thread title. The word tragic to me implies an accident of some sort.

The act in and of itself was not tragic, it was incomprehensible, grotesque, murder.

The after effects for her family and friends are tragic. I know it may seem like splitting hairs, but the act wasn't being described as tragic.

Easygame1

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why have the killers not presented themselves at the Garda station?

They have been lying since day 1. The two teenagers with her at the time lied to Gardai on monday night when interviewed, and there story was believed. It was only when the body was found attention turned back to them. So they have at least lied about that. As reported one boy has admitted to being there but leaving her unharmed, however he has blood on his clothing. Nobody else has admitted to going to the house but there is blood on more than one shirt.. I have more info but cannot disclose, arrest of main suspect will take place when he is fit to be interviewed...

wakka12

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Fair point. It’s widely assumed that it’s at least two.

But I’d prefer if they were over 18. There’s a part of me thinks they will get treated a bit easier cos they’re kids. And their families will have to leave the area

He tortured Ana, for no reason. Left her family wondering where she is for days on end, only to be let known theyd found her naked and beaten to death in a derelict barn. I cant for the life of me understand how you feel anything other than hatred for that boy no matter what his age, even the tiniest bit of empathy I dont get it!

jimmycrackcorm

washman3 wrote:

It speaks volumes for the parents..!! Plus, the judicial system (I mean judicial industry) have to make as much dosh as possible out of this.

Probably has convinced the parents that he didn't do anything and parents cannot believe the kid they nurtured from birth is capable of doing anything wrong.

wakka12 wrote:

. I cant for the life of me understand how you feel anything other than hatred for that boy no matter what his age, even the tiniest bit of empathy I dont get it!

Because feeling hatred only has a negative effect on you.

TomOnBoard

I was trying to understand how a case where a 13 y.o. may be involved would be handled differently to how it would be handled for an accused adult. There's a lot of info, but this is a useful overview.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html

Caledonia

Is the general feeling that it is just one boy who will be charged with the actual murder?

washman3

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Probably has convinced the parents that he didn't do anything and parents cannot believe the kid they nurtured from birth is capable of doing anything wrong

That's quite possible.
Or maybe those in the 'higher echelons of power' have decided to drag it out as long as possible so that public anger will be virtually extinguished.
After all, this is definitely Ireland's closest ever case to the Jamie Bulger case in UK.

Assetbacked

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I was trying to understand how a case where a 13 y.o. may be involved would be handled differently to how it would be handled for an accused adult. There's a lot of info, but this is a useful overview.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html

It makes sense why they would not be arrested without conclusive proof because, since it is very difficult to detain a child not found guilty of a crime, if there was a whiff of suspicion the child could potentially be attacked or targeted which would ultimately prejudice the trial. Therefore, presumably getting to the stage of arresting the suspects in this case would mean there is very strong evidence against them.