So Sexton...

irishfan9

undeniably the best irish outhalf ever? right?

3 6 nations, 4 european cups, plus the lions 10 for 2 undefeated series.

thebaz

irishfan9 wrote: »

undeniably the best irish outhalf ever? right?

3 6 nations, 4 european cups, plus the lions 10 for 2 undefeated series.

the best Irish 10 I have ever seen = I thought we would have to wait 10 years or more for another BOD but Johnny is at that level - after this season.

judeboy101

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

Teferi

judeboy101 wrote: »

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

Complete nonsense.

irishfan9

judeboy101 wrote: »

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

dont think he ever chose playing for a french club over ireland and his 2 years in france resulted in 2 6 nations titles. so lol.

Burkie1203

judeboy101 wrote: »

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

He got low balled by the irfu and left. Not a mistake the irfu will make again

80s Child

judeboy101 wrote: »

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

Wow..... I think this is the worst thing I've read on boards.

Neil3030

judeboy101 wrote: »

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

Alas, the same fate as Paul "tainted" O'Connell.

thomond2006

judeboy101 wrote: »

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

Neil3030

Jericho memes need to become a more frequent thing.

Kamu

He has been the best 10 we've ever had for a few years now I would have said, honestly think he has surpassed ROG a few years ago.

Steve

Great 10 and a great tactical player.

The fact he passed kicking duties to Isa today only backs that up, not many 10s would have done that.

ISA...ISA...ISA..

Both are up there with BOD in the halls of legend IMO.

BonnieSituation

At every turn there's one more game that you just go wow.

It's been a pleasure to watch... Even more so when you see how he was thrust in to take over from Felipe in Croker.

I've started to re-evaluate recently if he's surpassed BOD... He's close...

no.8

judeboy101 wrote:

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

The fact that he wanted to have international club experience somehow taints his standing for you is a reflection of yourself rather than anyone else

irishfan9

no.8 wrote: »

The fact that he wanted to have international club experience somehow taints his standing for you is a reflection of yourself rather than anyone else

no i believe the fact that he wouldnt accept the irfu underpaying him and left and still led ireland to 2 6 nations while based in paris says all you need to know.. came home to leinster as soon as he was fairly compensated.. as passionate a leinster man you will find.. but for some thats a black mark. he is more successful than rog and a better outhalf/rugby player.

durthacht

irishfan9 wrote: »

undeniably the best irish outhalf ever? right?

3 6 nations, 4 european cups, plus the lions 10 for 2 undefeated series.

Probably, but it's tough to compare across eras as most of us haven't seen the other great fly halves at their peak like Kyle, Gibson, Ward, and Campbell. He has to be one of the greatest for sure though.

jacothelad

durthacht wrote: »

Probably, but it's tough to compare across eras as most of us haven't seen the other great fly halves at their peak like Kyle, Gibson, Ward, and Campbell. He has to be one of the greatest for sure though.

Yes. You would wonder how those guys would fare as full time professionals playing behind Leinster's or Ireland's current pack. I would hazard a guess that they would be spectacularly good.

razorblunt

Maybe, second behind that great cork and Munster man we all know and love ...


Ralph Keyes.

selassie

Think if he can mastermind Ireland to a medal at the world cup( winner, runner up or 3rd place) he'll be regarded as the best ever Irish player.

mr_edge_to_you

I was and remain a huge O’Gara fan. Rated him as one of Ireland’s top sportsmen. I just didn’t want to admit that Sexton could be/was better than him. I don’t know why - it was the same with The Wire. I didn’t want to admit to myself that there was a better tv show than the Sopranos.

Following the display in 6N Paris it was very easy to come to the realisation that Sexton is a class above any other outhalf on the planet at the moment nevermind being Ireland’s best ever OH.

I do think he has developed into a world class player. When he was starting to play regularly at Leinster I wouldn’t have foreseen he would become the player he has. I think Schmidt has been an enormous influence on his career.

errlloyd

Hilariously ROG v Sexton debates are stilled banned on this board. The debate ended a long time ago.

wandatowell

Steve wrote: »

The fact he passed kicking duties to Isa today only backs that up, not many 10s would have done that.

What was the reasoning behind that?

uberwolf

wandatowell wrote: »

What was the reasoning behind that?

I've seen reference to a tweaked groin.

Curious that this has been a semi regular occurrence, Murray stepping in for him a few times

Dubinusa

I think Ward and Campbell would have been superb pro's. Both were brilliant and a pleasure to watch.

cson

Never mind just OH, he's the best Irish rugby player of all time imo.

Trojan

judeboy101 wrote: »

The fact he chose money over country and legged it to France, no matter how briefly, will always taint him in my eyes.

The time for honouring yourself will soon be at an end...

joseywhales

I can't put anyone ahead of bod just yet, maybe not as intelligent as Sexton is(although very intelligent, knew what he had to do for the team to win), he was heroic with his body playing alongside far inferior players including with the Lions. Did it for years,beat teams almost single handidly at his peak, latterly played as a cripple. Was the impetous to bring Ireland from absolute wooden spoon team to competing and occasionally beating the top 6. Sexton enjoys a much higher quality of teammate. He is fantastic.

I think Sexton has hit the BOD/POC tier now of our best players of the professional era. It's just the three of them up there.

Dubinusa

Murrays pretty close too!

irishfan9

Dubinusa wrote: »

Murrays pretty close too!

needs to lead munster to a trophy or two.

Zzippy

irishfan9 wrote: »

needs to lead munster to a trophy or two.

Utter rubbish. If he was playing in that Leinster team he'd be there. Being surrounded by great players like Sexton is is purely an accident of birth. If Sexton was born in Munster he would likely have a pretty bare trophy cabinet. It's a team sport, not an individual one. Sexton didn't win those trophies on his own.

Faugheen

Zzippy wrote: »

irishfan9 wrote: »

needs to lead munster to a trophy or two.

Utter rubbish. If he was playing in that Leinster team he'd be there. Being surrounded by great players like Sexton is is purely an accident of birth. If Sexton was born in Munster he would likely have a pretty bare trophy cabinet. It's a team sport, not an individual one. Sexton didn't win those trophies on his own.

2011 Heineken Cup final has called..

Sexton literally won that game all by himself.

Faugheen

Zzippy wrote: »

irishfan9 wrote: »

needs to lead munster to a trophy or two.

Utter rubbish. If he was playing in that Leinster team he'd be there. Being surrounded by great players like Sexton is is purely an accident of birth. If Sexton was born in Munster he would likely have a pretty bare trophy cabinet. It's a team sport, not an individual one. Sexton didn't win those trophies on his own.

2011 Heineken Cup final has called..

Sexton literally won that game all by himself.

Neil3030

Zzippy wrote: »

Utter rubbish. If he was playing in that Leinster team he'd be there. Being surrounded by great players like Sexton is is purely an accident of birth. If Sexton was born in Munster he would likely have a pretty bare trophy cabinet. It's a team sport, not an individual one. Sexton didn't win those trophies on his own.

A t-shirt with "Leinster by accident of birth" doesn't quite have the same ring to it :pac:

ClanofLams

Faugheen wrote: »

2011 Heineken Cup final has called..

Sexton literally won that game all by himself.

Did he go out himself against the 15 Northampton boys he did? Some going!!

Burkie1203

Zzippy wrote: »

Utter rubbish. If he was playing in that Leinster team he'd be there. Being surrounded by great players like Sexton is is purely an accident of birth. If Sexton was born in Munster he would likely have a pretty bare trophy cabinet. It's a team sport, not an individual one. Sexton didn't win those trophies on his own.

Munster biggest problem has been a lack of top class 10. Leinster have won 4 European cups with 9s who wouldn't be considered top class. If sexton played at 10 for Munster v Racing I think they win that game.

A top class 10 is more important then a top class 9 IMO.

Faugheen

ClanofLams wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

2011 Heineken Cup final has called..

Sexton literally won that game all by himself.

Did he go out himself against the 15 Northampton boys he did? Some going!!

Well considering he scored more points than Northampton...

You can be as smart as you want but you'll still look foolish.

Zzippy

Faugheen wrote: »

2011 Heineken Cup final has called..

Sexton literally won that game all by himself.

Literally? Some man for one man. Did he win all the scrums too?

Burkie1203

Zzippy wrote: »

Literally? Some man for one man. Did he win all the scrums too?

Yes. He was at LH. Isa was at TH. But Isa was rubbish in first half so they swapped.

Faugheen

Some right smart holes here haven't we?

Leinster don't win that game without Sexton. How does that sound?

Zzippy

Faugheen wrote: »

Some right smart holes here haven't we?

Leinster don't win that game without Sexton. How does that sound?

That's more accurate, literally. And less of the personal abuse, thanks.

Faugheen

Zzippy wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Some right smart holes here haven't we?

Leinster don't win that game without Sexton. How does that sound?

That's more accurate, literally. And less of the personal abuse, thanks.

You knew exactly what I was trying to say in that post but you decided to poke a little bit for a reaction anyway. Don't be surprised if you get one.

ClanofLams

Faugheen wrote: »

Well considering he scored more points than Northampton...

You can be as smart as you want but you'll still look foolish.

Aye I'm fierce embarrassed alright.

Considering the original point made was about the need for a great team and how one player alone won't win anything, you might go off and examine the Leinster 2011 squad and come back and tell us if Murray has ever been fortunate enough to have such calibre around him. Otherwise your attempted rebuttal of the original point is irrelevant.

Faugheen

ClanofLams wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Well considering he scored more points than Northampton...

You can be as smart as you want but you'll still look foolish.

Aye I'm fierce embarrassed alright.

Considering the original point made was about the need for a great team and how one player alone won't win anything, you might go off and examine the Leinster 2011 squad and come back and tell us if Murray has ever been fortunate enough to have such calibre around him. Otherwise your attempted rebuttal of the original point is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant at all.

Fact of the matter is, if Sexton wasn't playing then Leinster, with a team containing O'Driscoll, Nacewa, Hines, O'Brien, Heaslip, D'Arcy and a whole host of internationals, would not have won that game, never mind from 22-6 down at half time.

28 of Leinster's 33 points were scored by Sexton that day. That Leinster side for all the quality that it had still needed Sexton and his performance was the winning of the game.

So yes, Sexton did win that game for Leinster. To suggest otherwise is a nonsense.

Annabella1

Think when we talk about ‘world class’ player must have delivered for lions on world stage
Hold your hand up JS

ClanofLams

Faugheen wrote: »

It's not irrelevant at all.

Fact of the matter is, if Sexton wasn't playing then Leinster, with a team containing O'Driscoll, Nacewa, Hines, O'Brien, Heaslip, D'Arcy and a whole host of internationals, would not have won that game, never mind from 22-6 down at half time.

28 of Leinster's 33 points were scored by Sexton that day. That Leinster side for all the quality that it had still needed Sexton and his performance was the winning of the game.

So yes, Sexton did win that game for Leinster. To suggest otherwise is a nonsense.

It's entirely irrelevant. The point was that great players don't win trophies on their own. If they did Jonny Wilkinson would have led Newcastle Falcons to a European cup.

Sexton was the best player on the park in that final but that has nothing to do with the point you were attempting to rebut.

This is not a diss on Sexton, world class player that Leinster and Ireland have been fortunate to have.

Burkie1203

Look at European finals in last 12 years

Sexton x 4
Farrell x 2
Wilkinson x3
RoG x2

Steve

wandatowell wrote: »

What was the reasoning behind that?

uberwolf wrote: »

I've seen reference to a tweaked groin.

Curious that this has been a semi regular occurrence, Murray stepping in for him a few times

Yeah, I heard he tweaked his groin (which unfortunately seems to be a recurring problem for him) so made the right call there.

hullaballoo

This place is worse than being in court.

"Sexton was crucial in the 2011 final for the Leinster win." Not that controversial a statement.

"Sexton literally won that game all by himself." Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war.

Clegg

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Zzippy wrote: »

Utter rubbish. If he was playing in that Leinster team he'd be there. Being surrounded by great players like Sexton is is purely an accident of birth. If Sexton was born in Munster he would likely have a pretty bare trophy cabinet. It's a team sport, not an individual one. Sexton didn't win those trophies on his own.

Munster biggest problem has been a lack of top class 10. Leinster have won 4 European cups with 9s who wouldn't be considered top class. If sexton played at 10 for Munster v Racing I think they win that game.

A top class 10 is more important then a top class 9 IMO.

I think the top class 10 thing isn't Munster's biggest problem. You can get by without a world class player provided the right structures are in place. And that's where Munster fall down. They've no actual attacking pattern. We've seen Leinster have great success breaking the gain line then using pull back dummy passes to get the ball wide quickly. They make great yards through the middle and out wide.

Munster don't do that. In fact I'm not sure what they're actually trying to achieve in attack. They've some supremely talented outside backs and seem to be putting all the impetus on them to create something from nothing. And let's face it. Despite having some very good players their pack is nothing special. They don't have the level of quality to beat the big boys.

Zzippy

hullaballoo wrote: »

This place is worse than being in court.

"Sexton was crucial in the 2011 final for the Leinster win." Not that controversial a statement.

"Sexton literally won that game all by himself." Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war.

Another one missing the point. No one is disputing Sexton is a great player. One person asserted Conor Murrary wasn't in that league because he hadn't achieved success with Munster. Completely missing the point that rugby is a team game and that without his Leinster teammates Sexton wouldn't have achieved that success*. Someone else missed the point altogether and took grave offence to it, as if it was a slight on Sexton.

Some very touchy people around here tonight.



*and also conveniently ignoring the success Murray has enjoyed with Ireland and the Lions.