Apple pulls out of data center in Athenry due to fcuked up planning and gob****es

weldoninhio

cnocbui wrote: »

While I think this country's planning system is beyond dysfunctional and needs to be scrapped, and this just highlights that, Apple themselves need to shoulder some of the blame here. Their idea of dropping this in a rural area and not somewhere already zoned for such developments was typically high-handed of them. Had they chosen an existing technology park or a more urban commercially zoned plot, it would be built by now.

So on the one hand you have people saying that the growth of Dublin is unsustainable, companies should be given incentives to move down the country to relieve rent pressures, amongst other things.

But on the other hand, when a company tries this, you have people saying companies should be using more urban commercial plots. No wonder the country is a mess.

What do we want? A more even distribution of the workforce around the country to relieve the stresses of daily living for everyone.

Where do we want it? Not in my backyard!!!

Rulmeq

Even now people on here are trying to trivialise the loss in terms of jobs, and the potential for the community. Even if it was "only" 150 jobs (or less), that is a massive number of jobs for a rural community, how many other employers in the area "only" employ 150 people. This also has the double whammy for the rest of Ireland, the message is clear, don't bother trying to invest outside of Dublin.

As for the energy requirements Apple have committed to being carbon neutral in all its data centres in the next few years, so they would have been investing in renewable energy here as well. This could have turned into a massive benefit for Ireland when it comes to the fines we're going to have to pay when we fail to meet our carbon emissions targets.

The 150 jobs would probably have resulted in the same number again in the community in shops, pubs and other service industry, so even if it was "only" 150 jobs, it would still have had a big impact on the economy of Athenry.

cnocbui

weldoninhio wrote: »

So on the one hand you have people saying that the growth of Dublin is unsustainable, companies should be given incentives to move down the country to relieve rent pressures, amongst other things.

But on the other hand, when a company tries this, you have people saying companies should be using more urban commercial plots. No wonder the country is a mess.

What do we want? A more even distribution of the workforce around the country to relieve the stresses of daily living for everyone.

Where do we want it? Not in my backyard!!!

This has nothing to do with Dublin. You do realise there are business parks and commercially zoned land outside of Dublin? Do you think Dublin has a monopoly?

salmocab

A large data caenter could easily have 150 staff, they are 24/7 operations so if your ever in one it’s likely only a few of the staff are in. Apple have financial information so would have high security so lots of security guards added to that electricians engineers mechanical experts the cleaners managers and a few others and 150 would easily be reached.
Regards the power they do take and pay for a lot of power but it’s a nice level constant load again 24/7 unlike most industry.
Getting a large data centre in also means extra fibers brought in to the area which will attract more data centers as would power upgrades.

inter arma

An unfortunate turn of events. That data centre would have brought jobs, directly and indirectly to Athenry in a variety of different social and economic areas. I can't understand why the objectors mounted such a big campaign- its not as if it were an incinerator or some factory that would be dumping huge pollutants into the atmosphere. Is it any wonder why companies prefer to locate to the east and south?

weldoninhio

inter arma wrote: »

An unfortunate turn of events. That data centre would have brought jobs, directly and indirectly to Athenry in a variety of different social and economic areas. I can't understand why the objectors mounted such a big campaign- its not as if it were an incinerator or some factory that would be dumping huge pollutants into the atmosphere. Is it any wonder why companies prefer to locate to the east and south?

One of them had bought land in Wicklow that he thought would be a "better fit" for Apple.

meep

cnocbui wrote: »

Duh! There is nothing local to the intended site that could use the heat.

Doesn't need to be local. I'm not a thermodynamic engineer but a quick google found this kind of technology being discussed >25 years ago;

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/er.4440150805

ABSTRACT: A process for heat recovery from a thermal plant and transportation over a large distance is presented and discussed. Heat is carried in the vapour phase of a working fluid at the ambient temperature without thermal losses. The performance of the process compares favourably, even for distances of about 100 km, with the local use of a heat pump at the site where the thermal energy is to be consumed. Water can be used as a suitable alternative to freons in such a process of heat transportation.

Jimbob1977

A property lawyer and a property developer.

Let me guess.... the third guy is a banker.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

No I don't and I agree with you, but Apple ignored the realpolitik at their cost. Had they chosen somewhere more appropriate it would likely be built by now.

This is the perfect type of site for a data centre. A large area of waste groundnut good for nothing else and away from an urban centre.

You can't built a massive data centre in an industrial estate (maybe you don't understanf the scale)

or close to a city. They are massive for a start and need a large amount of ground, it doesn't need to be close to other business or amenities and also will likely need more space around it for expansion not to be suddenly surrounded by another building in the way. It's also creating jobs in a rural area away from busy traffic etc where those working there would have a trouble free commute to work and access to much cheaper rural housing in a time where cities are over crowded and rents are rocketing that is a big advantage.

The issue here was our idiotic planning system, the 3 or 4 people objecting to this should have had one attempt at objecting, when their stupid reasons were heard and dismissed that should be it. No appeals, no going to higher courts they should be told to shut up and go home. It sickens me to the core that they won and co.galway had lost a great investment from the worlds top company. Less jobs, local business will not get a big boost they would have, it would promote co. Galway on the world stage and attract more investment etc etc.

wexie

weldoninhio wrote: »

One of them had bought land in Wicklow that he thought would be a "better fit" for Apple.

Yeah it's absolutely mind boggling that someone who so clearly has a vested interest in this matter should have been allowed to interfere in this.

irishgrover

cnocbui wrote:

If this centre had been developed to it's full capacity, it would have consumed as much power as the whole of Dublin. .

Ok, it no one else will, I'm going to call "utter bull****" on this claim....

raspberrypi67

All I can say its that's a big loss of jobs , and all they do is winge and whine about the lack of jobs there, etc. they sure cut their nose
off to spite their face...well, serves them right...idiots....Dutch will be thanking us....

I love the way the only posters providing evidence/links are the ones saying Apple wouldn't need that much electricity. Nothing from the posters who say otherwise.

Cough up, people. Give us some evidence to show such a proposed site would require "as much electricity as Dublin" or whatever the objection actually is.

Yillan

OSI wrote: »

Not to mention Apple is committed to making all of it's facilities run on 100% renewable energy so they would have followed up the development with investment in renewable energy resources in Ireland.

Would they? Where does it say that? According to anything I read, Apple were going to use renewable energy, but had made no commitment to creating any renewable energy, which would just mean paying Airtricity etc for their wind farm electricity, and then the rest of us are back on the fossil fuels.

I think I read that the servers would add an extra 4% energy burden to Ireland, which would put strain on a supply which is just barely ticking along as it is.

And the idea of 150 permanent jobs is apparently a bit of a fantasy designed to dress up the project so people can argue it would be good for the local economy. So you have a paltry number of additional jobs, a huge drain on the energy supply for the country and Apple building a huge centre in the middle of nowhere but god help anyone that even suggests it mightn't be as good as it is presented to be.

A new McDonalds opening would be better for the local and national economy than this 500 million euro project.

Foxhound38

Idiot: "All the jobs cant be in Dublin, we need rural jobs"
The same idiot: "You can't build something like that here , it looks industrial, put it in Dublin"

FFS - we've disgraced ourselves again

Boom_Bap

I'm confused, I don't know if the 'pulling out' technique is a success or failure in this case?

cnocbui

Karen Late Rubber-stamp wrote: »

This is the perfect type of site for a data centre. A large area of waste groundnut good for nothing else and away from an urban centre.

You can't built a massive data centre in an industrial estate (maybe you don't understanf the scale)

or close to a city. They are massive for a start and need a large amount of ground, it doesn't need to be close to other business or amenities and also will likely need more space around it for expansion not to be suddenly surrounded by another building in the way. It's also creating jobs in a rural area away from busy traffic etc where those working there would have a trouble free commute to work and access to much cheaper rural housing in a time where cities are over crowded and rents are rocketing that is a big advantage.

The issue here was our idiotic planning system, the 3 or 4 people objecting to this should have had one attempt at objecting, when their stupid reasons were heard and dismissed that should be it. No appeals, no going to higher courts they should be told to shut up and go home. It sickens me to the core that they won and co.galway had lost a great investment from the worlds top company. Less jobs, local business will not get a big boost they would have, it would promote co. Galway on the world stage and attract more investment etc etc.

Well could explain the location of existing data centres in Ireland that were not located in the middle of nowhere then?

Doctors room ghost

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I love the way the only posters providing evidence/links are the ones saying Apple wouldn't need that much electricity. Nothing from the posters who say otherwise.

Cough up, people. Give us some evidence to show such a proposed site would require "as much electricity as Dublin" or whatever the objection actually is.

Wouldn’t bother worrying about it lad.the good ship apple has sailed now and all that’s left at the dock is a bunch of paddywhackers scratching themselves staring into a swamp.

Wheeliebin30

The government really face an uphill battle with idiots in this country.

boban z

Im disappointed to say the least.

In isolation this is not a massive loss but the potential this had to ignite the west is massive.

This could have been a kick start to massive development and investment in the west.

Big picture thinking here but a success story like Apple in the west could have ment more foreign investment in the west. There is also a large Pharma base in Galway currently......knock on effect could have ment an International airport in Galway generating further jobs and investment.
Iv always felt Galway needed it's own airport.

Then there is the add on's, Hotels, restaurant shops etc.

Sad day............I though Ireland had turned a corner but we are the same old Ireland of the last century

Doctors room ghost

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The government really face an uphill battle with idiots in this country.

Yeah and the government are the biggest fukn idiots of the lot

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

Cough up, people. Give us some evidence to show such a proposed site would require "as much electricity as Dublin" or whatever the objection actually is.

They can't because such evidence doesn't exist because it isn't true.

One of the major costs of running a data center is electricity usage and indeed these places use HUUUUGE amounts of energy.

But because they do it's worth spending money to make them as efficient as possible. If your ESB bill is 100 a month you're not going to be overly concerned with a 1% efficiency increase. If your ESB bill is 100.000 a month a 1% increase is worth looking at so as a rule these places tend to be very efficient.

As for using as much power as Dublin.....that's complete and utter bollox, even if only because there's at least one data center in Dublin which is very considerably larger than what was proposed in Athenry. (plus heaps of smaller ones)

Doctors room ghost

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Wouldn’t bother worrying about it lad.the good ship apple has sailed now and all that’s left at the dock is a bunch of paddywhackers scratching themselves staring into a swamp.

Lad? I'm likely older than you are. :rolleyes:

Doctors room ghost

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lad? I'm likely older than you are. :rolleyes:

Age has nothing to do with gender lad

wexie

Yillan wrote: »

Would they? Where does it say that? According to anything I read, Apple were going to use renewable energy, but had made no commitment to creating any renewable energy, which would just mean paying Airtricity etc for their wind farm electricity, and then the rest of us are back on the fossil fuels.

And what do you think Airtricity would do once they've reach the limit on what they can produce and sell all of it?

Do you think they would :

a) think, ah lads this is grand, let's stop here cause we've sold all we have to sell

or

b) invest in being able to create yet more renewable energy?

:rolleyes:

Doctors room ghost

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Age has nothing to do with gender lad

Sigh. Another one of those. Ok.

major bill

So yer man buys land for 22 million in Wicklow, plans to ''develop the worlds biggest data centre'' gets rejected for planning permission and as a result tried his best to block this move in a part of Ireland he has no connection to cos he feels Wicklow would be a better spot.

What a ****ing ****!!!

Sometimes the greed in this country frustrates me.

ChikiChiki

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

All I can say its that's a big loss of jobs , and all they do is winge and whine about the lack of jobs there, etc. they sure cut their nose
off to spite their face...well, serves them right...idiots....Dutch will be thanking us....

This is very very true. It will definitely reduce potential future opportunities due to nimbyism. The economy of the local are would have greatly benefited.

Doctors room ghost

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sigh. Another one of those. Ok.

Lighten up klaz.have a read up on the post where your man had cheesy puffs for dinner and blamed the wife for him feeling sick.you will have yourself a good laugh

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

I love the way the only posters providing evidence/links are the ones saying Apple wouldn't need that much electricity. Nothing from the posters who say otherwise.

Cough up, people. Give us some evidence to show such a proposed site would require "as much electricity as Dublin" or whatever the objection actually is.

I am happy to provide that which you do not want to see.

Mr Mulcahy said a range of experts would address the concerns. He said while the company was committed to using renewable energy, it was not proposing any generating facilities on site but would be connected to the national grid.

Read more: Apple faces new hearing on €850m Galway centre

He said the development would not require increased generation capacity and the company would enter into a contract with a renewable energy supplier. Apple has claimed that it will run the centre on 100pc renewable energy. The 24,500 sq m centre in Athenry was granted planning permission by Galway County Council. It has since been appealed by eight parties.

If given the go-ahead, the development will involve the construction of a data centre, an administration building and associated works and will employ 150 people.

Read more: iPhone 7: Leaked photos reveal details of Apple's next handset

Oisin Collins, representing a residents group, said Apple would be the largest private user of electricity in the State, if it were to expand its presence to the predicted level over the next 15 years.

It would use 300MW of power, which is 8pc of the national capacity and more than the daily entire usage of Dublin city. He questioned whether the impact on the national grid had been fully assessed.

Apple said there will be no increased risk of flooding as the project includes a comprehensive drainage network and soak away areas. The oral hearing is set to last for a number of days.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/apple-athenry-centre-will-need-more-than-dublins-daily-electricity-supply-hearing-34744102.html