Apple pulls out of data center in Athenry due to fcuked up planning and gob****es

hmmm

The real impact here is not a single data centre, it's the message it sends out to the world about the difficulties of building infrastructure in Ireland - particularly rural Ireland. Most countries would be falling over themselves to get an 850m data centre from Apple.

More rural politicians have taken an interest in the drink-link bus and a railway to nowhere than have ever taken an interest in our planning laws (unless it's for once-off housing). Good luck with the argument that "shure all investment goes into Dublin".

MarkR

I hear the fields lie low there. Probably a flooding risk.

Mr. teddywinkles

Estrella Salty Leak wrote: »

I'd be in favour of the data centre but that 150 number sounds way off.

On site there would only be maintenance staff, security, etc. Day to day these things shouldn't require must effort. Open to correction but any data centre I've ever been in was pretty sparsely populated.

The management of the data centre would most likely be done centrally from wherever they manage their other centres.

Job announcements like these are easy to make. Nobody every follows up and it's not a firm commitment.

But let's say it's just 30 full time jobs locally. That in itself is a good thing.

All remotely operated probably

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

All remotely operated probably

Of course software engineers and site reliability engineers can be anywhere but the workers in the data centre have to be on site as security or hardware fixers.

cnocbui

wexie wrote: »

no but it makes his analysis biased, which in turn should make it invalid

Are you for real? So in a criminal trial an accused person should not be allowed to give evidence in their defence because of bias and so their testimony should be declared invalid?

Same going for anyone else who knows them and is corroborating their story?

Unless I'm wrong there isn't such a thing as a fine for energy usage.
There are fines for Co2 production and that doesn't necessarily need to be related to energy production anymore.

So really the problem you have is not with Apple for wanting to build a data center but with ESB for still using coal and peat to run power stations and having an overall hopelessly outdated infrastructure....

The problem I have is with Apple not adequately addressing the power requirements of such a data centre and not being prepared to provide for their own needs in a way that does not shift risk on to tax payers, in terms of potential EU fines. They clearly could easily afford to do so.

You clearly think that 100 % of energy can be sourced from renewables. I don't want to derail the thread by going into that fallacy.

If Apple increase the country's power usage they also increase the production of CO2. Without nuclear power, that is unavoidable.

Ireland faces fines of €600m a year from the EU for failing to meet renewable energy targets and cutting carbon emissions by 2020.

New, more ambitious targets for 2030 do not let Ireland off the hook for the 2020 measures, it has emerged.

A report for the D Public Accounts Committee, which calculated the potential fines within two years, said they will be a matter for the European Court of Justice to impose.

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2018/04/30/ireland-faces-annual-eu-energy-fines-of-e600m/

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Was there a cost analysis of how many jobs would be lost because of the extra drain on the grid?

Was it more or less than 150?

Why would jobs be lost due to a heavier work load on the grid, if anything it would create more jobs in this area. Also the grid would be well able for it especially as apple planned to generate lots of their own electricity from renewable sources.

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

All remotely operated probably

Totally ignoring the poster who works in data centres and confirmed there would be far more than 150 jobs needed on site :rolleyes:.

Boggles

Karen Late Rubber-stamp wrote: »

Why would jobs be lost due to a heavier work load on the grid,

Increased taxation, increased energy bills, other industries down the line not getting permission because of their energy requirements.

We are already paying carbon taxes on our energy bills.

By any matrix this is only going to go up at least in the short / medium term.

Will Tim pay that for me, will he pay the EU fines?

Will he fook, he won't even pay his taxes.

Karen Late Rubber-stamp wrote: »

Also the grid would be well able for it especially as apple planned to generate lots of their own electricity from renewable sources.
.

Show me the plan? I haven't seen it.

And show me were the grid "would be well able for it".

The guys that actually run it aren't so sure.

gerrybbadd

I see what happened here.

This was to be placed in a green field site in Athenry.

They were afraid if would F up the song.

"Lo, Hi, The Datacentres of Athenry" doesn't have the same ring to it.

Steve F

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I see what happened here.

This was to be placed in a green field site in Athenry.

They were afraid if would F up the song.

"Lo, Hi, Lie The Datacentres of Athenry" doesn't have the same ring to it.

It's LIE!!

wexie

cnocbui wrote: »

The problem I have is with Apple not adequately addressing the power requirements of such a data centre and not being prepared to provide for their own needs in a way that does not shift risk on to tax payers, in terms of potential EU fines. They clearly could easily afford to do so.

How do you propose they would have done this?

And by the way, seems to me you are arguing this (or any other) data center shouldn't have been built at all, anywhere.

cnocbui wrote: »

You clearly think that 100 % of energy can be sourced from renewables. I don't want to derail the thread by going into that fallacy.

That's not even remotely what I think, but I do think we can do better than 20ish %

cnocbui wrote: »

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2018/04/30/ireland-faces-annual-eu-energy-fines-of-e600m/

Very first line of that article :

Ireland faces fines of €600m a year from the EU for failing to meet renewable energy targets and cutting carbon emissions by 2020.

Tell me which of those are Apple's responsibilities? They committed to using renewable energies, the basis of which could have been used for investing in more of these renewable energies...

What do you think a renewable energy supplier would have done with a big contract for a large scale long term customer in their back pocket?

You, like so many other people are showing a frightening lack of forward thinking and planning.

Sierra Oscar

Third party appeals should be abolished. We're the exception internationally in allowing people with no attachment to a planning application to submit an appeal and halt the entire process by pursuing it through the courts.

It's ridiculous that a person based in Wicklow, who has no attachment to Athenry or this project other than having a rival plan of his own, can torpedo this project. It wasn't the people of Athenry who caused this. It was an individual who's own site lost out and who wanted to scupper the entire project as a result. It's a disgusting act of vengeance.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Increased taxation, increased energy bills, other industries down the line not getting permission because of their energy requirements.

We are already paying carbon taxes on our energy bills.

By any matrix this is only going to go up at least in the short / medium term.

Will Tim pay that for me, will he pay the EU fines?

Will he fook, he won't even pay his taxes.



Show me the plan? I haven't seen it.

And show me were the grid "would be well able for it".

The guys that actually run it aren't so sure.

This is all pure speculation with no foundation. Your bias is blinding you.

This is a very bad day for Ireland and Co.Galway in particular, that is fact.

Boggles

Karen Late Rubber-stamp wrote: »

This is all pure speculation with no foundation. Your bias is blinding you.

Cop out. Address the post and answer the questions I asked you.

Annd9

Having worked in data centres all over the world for some of the biggest tech companies out there , 150 permanent jobs is really taking the piss . I'd have a guess at 60 to 80 max

Devastated for the people of Galway though, would have given a great boost during the construction phase anyway .

Boggles

wexie wrote: »

Tell me which of those are Apple's responsibilities?

They aren't which is the point.

They are mine and yours because ultimately we will pay for them.

wexie

Boggles wrote: »

They aren't which is the point.

They are mine and yours because ultimately we will pay for them.

Yes you're right....kinda....

The point is that if this plan had gone ahead the 'we' you're talking about would have included Apple.

Now it's just us....

Which do you think would be the better scenario?

Boggles

wexie wrote: »

Yes you're right....kinda....

The point is that if this plan had gone ahead the 'we' you're talking about would have included Apple.

Now it's just us....

Which do you think would be the better scenario?

It's very simple, pure maths, unless something drastically changes and rapidily, we can't afford them. That is the only scenario that matters.

Data centres will consume up to 20pc of all electricity generated in the State within a decade, which will pose an enormous challenge for Ireland meeting its climate change targets.

The amount of power needed to store emails, texts and other online data could rise seven-fold as Ireland chases inward investment from tech giants including Apple, Google, Amazon and Microsoft, data from EirGrid shows.

The national grid operator says that data centres could account for 75pc of new demand by 2030, and that the grid will have to be bolstered - particularly in Dublin - to meet projected growth, which could require additional power generation.

"Large industrial connections normally do not dominate a country's energy demand forecast but this is the case for Ireland at the moment," the All-Island Generation Capacity Statement 2017-2026 says

Personally I couldn't give a flying flute about Apple, Athenry or anyones opinion on this. Except Eirgrids.

The numbers are clear and stark even without the extra strain of data centres, it all spells one thing, me having to pay more.

Ubbquittious

Fcuk apple. Once built this datacentre would only employ a few robots and use a sh1tload of electricity. You'll see ESB infrastructure projects in the area put on the fast track as politicians kneel down on their prayer mats before Tim Cook so he can continue to make billions and pay no tax

castletownman

Well I am at the outside looking in (and wouldn't be particularly au fait with big business) I have family ties to the town, and a direct link to the ordeal.

My aunt is the principle of the school next to the proposed site and I know that they were set to benefit with technology etc. From what I heard, the local objector is meant to be a nasty piece of work, whose only aim at local meetings was to agitate and cast aspersions. My aunt's well-being was essentially put through the ringer throughout the process, and I am absolutely gutted that the deal has fallen through.

I bet that prick in Wicklow didn't even consider the well-being of the locals and the affect it will have on an already stagnant town from his ivory tower.

Hurrache

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Third party appeals should be abolished.

While I agree that there's a lot of issue with our planning process, I wouldn't go that far. Maybe introduce a clause to which an application must have a material affect on you before you are allowed input into the process, i.e. live adjacent/in the area.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you and that's what you mean, i.e. those I mention above are 2nd party and not 3rd party?

knipex

wexie wrote: »

The only potential long term impact to our power grid is that it's likely to end up being upgraded....

I'm not sure how you could possibly see that as a bad thing?

Microsoft have ended up building their very own power station as they couldn't wait for the grid to be upgraded to provide the power they needed.

https://www.independent.ie/business/microsoft-forced-to-build-dublin-power-station-to-service-huge-data-centre-36137561.html

I'm sure Eirgrid will eventually get around to it.

I am not talking about this project in particular but the entire data center sector in general.

Huge increases in electricity demand are not something that we need at the moment. We are currently failing to meet C02 targets and are in the process of upgrading our grid to accept a more distributed form of power generation..

What ever the pro's and cons of this distributed generation program or of data centers we as a nation have a huge dependence on natural gas for electricity generation which in effect means Russian gas. Any huge increases in demand increase that dependence and also our exposure. For what appears to be a very limited long term return to the state.

However that debate is separate to the planning system which is a complete and utter mess but I have to admit that find it hugely amusing to listen to cries of "nimbyism" and "rural this and rural that" when from what I can see nimbyism is equally if not more rampant in Dublin with everything from social housing projects, residential developments, concerts and now metros affected..

Funny how its only nimbyism when it doesn't affect you.

The planning process in Ireland is a joke. Too long to pen to appeal and too slow. Simplify, standardize and speed up.

mikemac2

I wonder will the local architect who objected be going for a quiet pint down the town

Might be a chilly reception, awkward!

Evd-Burner

Annd9 wrote: »

Having worked in data centres all over the world for some of the biggest tech companies out there , 150 permanent jobs is really taking the piss . I'd have a guess at 60 to 80 max

Devastated for the people of Galway though, would have given a great boost during the construction phase anyway .

Seriously? Please show your number calculations cause that is far too low a calculation.

Security alone for the first phase would have been 30-40. You have to remember that these places are staffed 24/7/365 that a lot of the time you may see only 15 to 20 people but you have to multiply that by 4.

John_Rambo

BPKS wrote: »

The supporters of the project in Athenry should picket the house of the guy in Wicklow for a few weeks and object to any planning permissions he or his family make for the rest of their lives.

It was locals that wouldn't withdraw the appeal.

Fann Linn

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Fcuk apple. Once built this datacentre would only employ a few robots and use a sh1tload of electricity. You'll see ESB infrastructure projects in the area put on the fast track as politicians kneel down on their prayer mats before Tim Cook so he can continue to make billions and pay no tax

And the locals, most likely backed by Regina Doherty, will object to the new ESB infrastructure going through their lands a la north south interconnector!

runawaybishop

cnocbui wrote: »

Just stop.


http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/design-build/apples-irish-data-center-faces-new-hearing/96069.fullarticle

Who gives a **** how much power it uses? They will be paying for the expansion of our grid.

Boggles

Evd-Burner wrote: »

Security alone for the first phase would have been 30-40. You have to remember that these places are staffed 24/7/365 that a lot of the time you may see only 15 to 20 people but you have to multiply that by 4.

All the big tech firms are investing shed loads of money in AI and automation, the one goal being, element the human factor.

Even security now is done remotely, the day of a lad half asleep in a high vis parked outside in his van is going.

Also Data Centres don't actually have many doors or windows, the contents are very valuable but not something Tommy can hock down the car park if he does manage to get past the high end secuirty.

salmocab

Boggles wrote: »

All the big tech firms are investing shed loads of money in AI and automation, the one goal being, element the human factor.

Even security now is done remotely, the day of a lad half asleep in a high vis parked outside in his van is going.

Also Data Centres don't actually have many doors or windows, the contents are very valuable but not something Tommy can hock down the car park if he does manage to get past the high end secuirty.

Security on these places especially the big ones is very much on site, they aren’t just stopping people nicking the servers to sell. The data center tips along doing its thing but the maintenance and any problems that arise are very much a hands on thing from the onsite facilities team.

cnocbui

runawaybishop wrote: »

Who gives a **** how much power it uses? They will be paying for the expansion of our grid.

I do, and so too should any Irish taxpayer with half their brain functioning. Expanding the grid and possibly copping a €600 M fine for doing so isn't a small issue.

Ubbquittious

Boggles wrote: »

All the big tech firms are investing shed loads of money in AI and automation, the one goal being, element the human factor.

Even security now is done remotely, the day of a lad half asleep in a high vis parked outside in his van is going.

Also Data Centres don't actually have many doors or windows, the contents are very valuable but not something Tommy can hock down the car park if he does manage to get past the high end secuirty.

You'll see the megacorps playing the Jobs card and banging on about economic benefits for the locals but once they've bypassed the planning stage the robots will be ready to roll in and you'll be reading about the redun-dun-dun-de-dun-dun-cies on thejournal.