Apple pulls out of data center in Athenry due to fcuked up planning and gob****es

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0510/961460-apple-athenry/

There you have it folks.

The result of a couple of locals and a fcuking eejit in Co Wicklow.

Not surprised. Total pisstake.

I'm sorry for the people of Athenry. You could of done with it. Good things don't come your way due to lunatics and a ****ed up planning process.

BPKS

The supporters of the project in Athenry should picket the house of the guy in Wicklow for a few weeks and object to any planning permissions he or his family make for the rest of their lives.

marno21

Almost every project/development in Ireland is seeing these kind of NIMBY objections as if these projects were benefit-less wastes of money that are solely being built to interfere with the lives of local residents and destroy the environment

Hopefully this will generate enough negative publicity to kickstart planning reform. It has to happen as the country is being held up beyond belief by this issue.

jimgoose

Well, I hope they enjoy their bats and badgers up there, it looks like they're going to need them. :pac::pac::pac:

Giblet

marno21 wrote: »

Almost every project/development in Ireland is seeing these kind of NIMBY objections as if these projects were benefit-less wastes of money that are solely being built to interfere with the lives of local residents and destroy the environment

Hopefully this will generate enough negative publicity to kickstart planning reform. It has to happen as the country is being held up beyond belief by this issue.

Not so much NIMBY for Brian McDonagh though, more like IMBY PLEASE!

i71jskz5xu42pb

https://fora.ie/apple-data-centre-galway-2-3061011-Nov2016/

Worth a read for the background on the people who objected and why.

Two locals, Allan Daly and property lawyer Sineád Fitzpactrick, have joined up with Brian McDonagh, a landowner who bought a €22 million site in Wicklow from Ulster Bank in 2007.

McDonagh’s idea was to develop the area into “the world’s largest data centre”. It was not to be and he was denied planning permission.

For that reason, it has been suggested that the site Wicklow would make a more suitable location for Apple’s data centre.

Meanwhile, Fitzpatrick has formed the Concerned Residents of Lisheenkyle group, which concluded in a report that Athenry was “the wrong site” for environmental reasons.

Kermit.de.frog

I'm looking at this as a Dub but for Athenry this must be devastating.

The locals have every right to be furious with what was interference from primarily people that live no where near.

Real reform needed NOW.

kneemos

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

phunkadelic

Data centres don't provide many jobs. The only meaningful number would be during construction, so temporary.

cantdecide

That's at least four jobs in the area gone forever

Pelvis

phunkadelic wrote: »

Data centres don't provide many jobs. The only meaningful number would be during construction, so temporary.

150 jobs were to be permanent.

ameirecan

Objecting to new developments is a middle class hobby in Ireland.

ongarite

So the main objector was in it for his own gain!
Bloody idiot.
Meanwhile Google, Amazon and Facebook have built data centres in the Dublin area without using this guys Wicklow site.

jimgoose

kneemos wrote: »

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

What do you think they're for? Burning electricity?? :pac:

suicide_circus

Pelvis wrote: »

150 jobs were to be permanent.

Up to 150

Kermit.de.frog

kneemos wrote: »

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

They don't pay for the electricity - they just get it for free?

Sleepy

What a nonsense.

Fiery mutant

kneemos wrote: »

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

phunkadelic wrote: »

Data centres don't provide many jobs. The only meaningful number would be during construction, so temporary.

cantdecide wrote: »

That's at least four jobs in the area gone forever

“Construction of the first phase of eight promised to generate 300 temporary jobs, with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it”.

whiskeyman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You could of done with it.

Short term jobs, perhaps.
Long term? Jury is out.
Good article here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/data-centre-growth-comes-at-price-for-irish-infrastructure-1.2759291

Overall, it shows the reliance we have on FDI.
If anything, I'm glad the planning process worked. Just because Apple want, doesn't mean Apple should get. Maybe pay your fair share of taxes...

I guess I'll be a minority voice in this.

(popcorn! delicious popcorn for all!)

Kermit.de.frog

whiskeyman wrote: »

I'm glad the planning process worked

Can you tell us about your intellectual disability?

Boom_Bap

Pelvis wrote: »

150 jobs were to be permanent.

Yup, and look what the have done in Denmark, they've started on another one as well. If that was on our shores as well, that would be 300 jobs plus the construction jobs during 2 potential developments.

Hurrache

kneemos wrote: »

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

Many of them are carbon neutral these days and run off renewable energy.

Kermit.de.frog

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Yup, and look what the have done in Denmark, they've started on another one as well. If that was on our shores as well, that would be 300 jobs plus the construction jobs during 2 potential developments.

Not just that. It's reputational damage to the country. Don't plan a project here...

i71jskz5xu42pb

Fiery mutant wrote: »

“Construction of the first phase of eight promised to generate 300 temporary jobs, with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it”.

I'd be in favour of the data centre but that 150 number sounds way off.

On site there would only be maintenance staff, security, etc. Day to day these things shouldn't require must effort. Open to correction but any data centre I've ever been in was pretty sparsely populated.

The management of the data centre would most likely be done centrally from wherever they manage their other centres.

Job announcements like these are easy to make. Nobody every follows up and it's not a firm commitment.

But let's say it's just 30 full time jobs locally. That in itself is a good thing.

cnocbui

While I think this country's planning system is beyond dysfunctional and needs to be scrapped, and this just highlights that, Apple themselves need to shoulder some of the blame here. Their idea of dropping this in a rural area and not somewhere already zoned for such developments was typically high-handed of them. Had they chosen an existing technology park or a more urban commercially zoned plot, it would be built by now.

Ri_Nollaig

whiskeyman wrote: »

Short term jobs, perhaps.
Long term? Jury is out.
Good article here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/data-centre-growth-comes-at-price-for-irish-infrastructure-1.2759291

Overall, it shows the reliance we have on FDI.
If anything, I'm glad the planning process worked. Just because Apple want, doesn't mean Apple should get. Maybe pay your fair share of taxes...

I guess I'll be a minority voice in this.

(popcorn! delicious popcorn for all!)

While I agree with you on, "just because its Apple doesn't mean they should get everything they want".

They still followed all planning laws and it looks like one of the main objectors was only objecting because they weren't using his site in Wicklow?

Kermit.de.frog

cnocbui wrote: »

Their idea of dropping this in a rural area

The locals welcomed it with open arms. They had protests FOR it.

Bob24

kneemos wrote: »

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

True in terms of power but it is a fairly short sighted view of the whole thing to say there is nothing in return.

Having key data centres in the country means investment will naturally flow to better connect our island to the core internet backbone (which creates other jobs to do these things and is good for the economy as a whole as better internet connectivity creates more business opportunities ... and while probably not as important also allows posters on this forum to load non-Irish webpages more quickly, have lower latency for their online games, load their porn videos faster, etc).

In the age of information, physically storing data in Ireland also is a massive advantage in terms of sovereignty and political leverage on the international stage.

It is more about building a cluster and becoming a key European data hub than getting one specific data centre, but having such a big one certainly would have helped, and driving Apple away in this way won’t encourage others to try and follow the same route.

Fann Linn

What was so specific to Athenry that perhaps couldn't be afforded to Cork, Dublin, Limerick or even Galway City itself where there are plenty of industrial zoned spaces?

Doctors room ghost

Paddywhackery still live and kicking in good old Ireland.fair play lads.clap fukn clap.

billbond4

Thats great news, we dont have the excess electricity that data center sheds will use, the likes of Norway & Denmark do.
If that data centre was going to be run "with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it” it should never be built, data centres should be only run on a handful of staff.
And the 500 million to build was at least 90% apple servers, brought in without any return to the Irish Taxpayer.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Will I still be able to buy apples in Athenry though ? that is the vital question here?

wexie

kneemos wrote: »

These data centres consume massive amounts of power apparently,with little or nothing in return.

I'm not really sure what you'd be looking to get in return?

Yes they do require massive amounts of power (although a lot less in Ireland because of our climate, cooling is much less of an issue here).

And they provide a service in return for that power?

Hurrache

billbond4 wrote: »

Thats great news, we dont have the excess electricity that data center sheds will use, the likes of Norway & Denmark do.
If that data centre was going to be run "with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it” it should never be built, data centres should be only run on a handful of staff.

I just said they use renewable energy. Do you think there's giant batteries at Poolbeg that will be drained further when the data centres get plugged in?

I've no idea what the rest of your post means.

Boom_Bap

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Will I still be able to buy apples in Athenry though ? that is the vital question here?

Someone should plant a load of apple trees in the fields of Athenry.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Someone should plant a load of apple trees in the fields of Athenry.

Brilliant :pac:

cnocbui

Hurrache wrote: »

Many of them are carbon neutral these days and run off renewable energy.

If this centre had been developed to it's full capacity, it would have consumed as much power as the whole of Dublin. It would have meant expanding The country's electricity generation capacity massively, and because of the deficiencies with renewables, that would have meant massive expansion of conventional power generation capacity for when it's dark and the wind isn't blowing, as well as renewables. This centre might have pushed Ireland's CO2 emissions up so much that we would have incurred huge EU fines for missing CO2 targets. We might have just dodged a bullet.

Corkblowin

The land was owned by the IDA - so it was intended to be used for a low-intensity development such as a data centre. Business parks etc should be used higher traffic activities - be it vehicles or people.

The biggest issue with this will be foreign investment going elsewhere where they can have more certainty of timeframes. Scotland making a huge push for FDI at the moment.

Fiery mutant

billbond4 wrote: »

Thats great news, we dont have the excess electricity that data center sheds will use, the likes of Norway & Denmark do.
If that data centre was going to be run "with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it” it should never be built, data centres should be only run on a handful of staff.
And the 500 million to build was at least 90% apple servers, brought in without any return to the Irish Taxpayer.

The data Centre runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The place I work in is open for 9 hours with 40 staff. If that was open 24 hours, that would need 3 shifts of 40 staff. That data Centre was massive.

Do the math.

Boom_Bap

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Brilliant :pac:

Then someone can write the remix of the song and give it a bit more modern pizazz.

meep

Estrella Salty Leak wrote: »

I'd be in favour of the data centre but that 150 number sounds way off.

On site there would only be maintenance staff, security, etc. Day to day these things shouldn't require must effort. Open to correction but any data centre I've ever been in was pretty sparsely populated.

The management of the data centre would most likely be done centrally from wherever they manage their other centres.

Job announcements like these are easy to make. Nobody every follows up and it's not a firm commitment.

But let's say it's just 30 full time jobs locally. That in itself is a good thing.

In a previous thread, I did an analysis of potential employee numbers based on the submitted plans. (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104944196)

Here it is again for fun;


To get some kind of handle on potential employment, I had a look at the planning submission and plans;

http://gccapps.galwaycoco.ie/viewexternaldocuments/ViewPDF?ref=1971694

This is certainly more than 'a few engineers to keep it ticking over' kind of facility, but not something that could be termed 'a major employer'

The main logistics and admin building contains 21 dedicated offices, 3 open plan office spaces, a facility operations centre and 9 conference rooms. There are several other workspaces related to logistics etc. There's no dedicated canteen or kitchen area, just a break room.

The main car park has ~140 spaces provided.

Each data centre has several offices and work areas with 20 dedicated car parking spaces.

It's probably reasonable to assume that the facility could support maybe 50 workers. Assuming a skeleton security and technical staff on 2x out of hours shifts, the total might be around 70.

Am open to correction, of course, as I'm not an expert at reverse calculating staff ratios based on office space provisions. However, there's a lot more office and workspace provided here than some of the employment naysayers could be comfortable with.

Hector Savage

Hurrache wrote: »

Many of them are carbon neutral these days and run off renewable energy.

Can't imagine they'd be close to carbon neutral ?

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

Blazer

billbond4 wrote: »

Thats great news, we dont have the excess electricity that data center sheds will use, the likes of Norway & Denmark do.
If that data centre was going to be run "with up to 150 permanent staff required to run it” it should never be built, data centres should be only run on a handful of staff.
And the 500 million to build was at least 90% apple servers, brought in without any return to the Irish Taxpayer.

Christ where to start.
Apple’s DC’s are all very energy efficient. Ireland is sought after as the crap weather year around leads to less cost spent on cooling. Between Server engineers, storage engineers, maintenance etc you could probably hit 50 jobs or so.
Regardless the whole planning permission is a joke on this country. Any person related to a business entity shouldn’t be allowed to protest against a competitor. The only concerns should be the environment and local people who’s house prices might be negatively impacted.
Dunes/Tesco’s are notorious for blocking Aldi/Lidl submissions and this all needs to be kicked to touch.

cantdecide

Apparently, the plant was situated adjacent to the natural habitat of the Athenry small free birds.

On a serious note, I have no idea of who to the most skeptical of - the gubbermint, the huge corporation or the nimbies and I think in these topics, the vested interests see to it that we never identify the real winners and losers are in the long run.

/goes off grid. dons tinfoil hat

whiskeyman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Can you tell us about your intellectual disability?

Really?

Just because my opinion differs, I really don't think you need to stoop to that level.

Post reported.

cnocbui

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The locals welcomed it with open arms. They had protests FOR it.

So what? The choice of location handed grounds for objection, to those so minded, on a plate. There are several other data centres already in this country. Did they face such opposition? Perhaps the companies that built them were more sensible about locating them?

I think it mad that this could be messed with as it has been, but with such a stupid planning system, it wasn't wise to choose that location.

Blazer

whiskeyman wrote: »

Really?

Just because my opinion differs, I really don't think you need to stoop to that level.

Post reported.

There’s opinions and then there's stupidity. Wanna guess which one is you?

meep

Hector Savage wrote: »

Can't imagine they'd be close to carbon neutral ?

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

One of the more interetsing points I learned from this while reading up on it some time back was that in Denmark, one of the planning provisions was that the excess heat from the centre was to be recycled for domestic heating. As I recall, there's a housing estate close by that gets it's heating generated from the data centre.

In Ireland, planning officials didn't take such an enlightened bview and were happy for all that excess heat to be vented to atmosphere. (ie wasted).

Kermit.de.frog

whiskeyman wrote: »

Really?

Just because my opinion differs, I really don't think you need to stoop to that level.

Post reported.

You said the planning process worked. You think the planning process works in this country?

You think this is a beacon of a planning process working?

You are either stupid or vested in a stupid planning process.

Franz Von Peppercorn

whiskeyman wrote: »

Short term jobs, perhaps.
Long term? Jury is out.
Good article here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/data-centre-growth-comes-at-price-for-irish-infrastructure-1.2759291

Overall, it shows the reliance we have on FDI.
If anything, I'm glad the planning process worked. Just because Apple want, doesn't mean Apple should get. Maybe pay your fair share of taxes...

I guess I'll be a minority voice in this.

(popcorn! delicious popcorn for all!)

The planning process at all stages green lighted the build. Or didn’t overturn the previous green lights.

The fact this therefore the planning process failed. Something that was agreed to be built (with some amendments) is now not getting built because of the length of time it took to make and confirm the decision to allow the build.

Hurrache

Hector Savage wrote: »

Can't imagine they'd be close to carbon neutral ?

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

The technology is there, there's articles out there for example as to how Facebook's data centres, such as the one at Clonee, achieve it. Can't remember the details now but probably between low energy, green energy, carbon offsets and we're not particularly warm with plenty of cool winds.