DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

gypsylee

I was reading through last year's Novice thread just now and on the Friday before the marathon I posted to wish everyone good luck. I also wrote this:


"I may never get to run a marathon myself so it was great to get an idea of the ups and downs of the training program".

Famous last words! Roll on Sunday!

eyrie

gypsylee wrote: »

I was reading through last year's Novice thread just now and on the Friday before the marathon I posted to wish everyone good luck. I also wrote this:


"I may never get to run a marathon myself so it was great to get an idea of the ups and downs of the training program".

Famous last words! Roll on Sunday!

Ah this is brilliant!!

Hedgehoggy

Quick q - do they have signs on the route to mark out 10k, 30k or 3/4 way mark - the half way mark will be noted anyway - but other than that is it just the mile markers?

RayCun

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Quick q - do they have signs on the route to mark out 10k, 30k or 3/4 way mark - the half way mark will be noted anyway - but other than that is it just the mile markers?

Miles and 5k markers.
There's a timing mat at 10k and 30k as well.

cullenswood

skyblue46 wrote: »

As regards wave starts this year is a bit of an unknown as the times required to be in each wave have changed quite substantially and may render previous years experiences as unrepresentative.

I dropped down a wave last year and I consider that to have been a mistake. I would start at the back of the faster wave which makes getting caught up in congestion a lesser risk, gives more time for toilets etc as you would not be in such a panic to get to the front of the lower wave and most importantly nobody in the Phoenix Park sees the colour of your number and thinks you're already 15 minutes behind your wave :pac:

Edit: I can in fact think of no good reason for anyone to drop a wave unless they a) want to stick with a pacer or b) feel that they are in a wave which will be filled with faster runners and they are afraid their morale might suffer as the faster runners move ahead.

Aaaah! I was going to use your tip and line up with Wave I guys but let them off and wait for the Wave II to come in and use the 3:30 pacers to keep me in check until Walkinstown. This has me re-thinking (again!) ha.

skyblue46

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Quick q - do they have signs on the route to mark out 10k, 30k or 3/4 way mark - the half way mark will be noted anyway - but other than that is it just the mile markers?

There are timing gantries at 10k, halfway and 30k. You can't miss them. They also take video footage at these points.

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

Last year i dropped back a wave when i had to adjust my goal downwards. I was glad i dropped the wave as i felt i was running with people the same pace as me at the start and as the race went on i just felt like i was constantly going by people instead of being passed out. I had the pace group ahead of me all the time to work off as well - for a long time they were out of sight but eventually i got glimpses of them, reeled them in and went past which was a super feeling. And of course once i passed them i knew i was ahead of pace because i had started behind them.

This year my target is between pace groups but i'm starting ahead of them both. So next year i'll be able to advise on how that works out :pac:

I think the 4 hour group will be one of the busiest pace groups so getting caught behind them isn't ideal (especially if you're hoping for a few minutes under 4 as opposed to a just getting under 4 ). This would sway me towards advising you to stick at the back of Wave 2.

But maybe someone with experience of starting in a wave ahead will give you advise with more foundation.

I agree Eyrie - I think you’d do better at the back of wave 2. You are a fairly independent runner anyway and the 4 hour crowds are going to be massive. I had a job passing out the 4:30 guys last year. I got stuck behind them for a few mins and ended up having to jump onto a footpath and sprint.

I’m going to be at the back of wave 2 also. I don’t want the conjestion of pacers so not dropping back.

skyblue46

cullenswood wrote: »

Aaaah! I was going to use your tip and line up with Wave I guys but let them off and wait for the Wave II to come in and use the 3:30 pacers to keep me in check until Walkinstown. This has me re-thinking (again!) ha.

I had forgotten my own tip!! :pac: That is of course a better option!!!

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

I had forgotten my own tip!! :pac: That is of course a better option!!!

What wave did you start off in last year S?

eyrie

ariana` wrote: »

Last year i dropped back a wave when i had to adjust my goal downwards. I was glad i dropped the wave as i felt i was running with people the same pace as me at the start and as the race went on i just felt like i was constantly going by people instead of being passed out. I had the pace group ahead of me all the time to work off as well - for a long time they were out of sight but eventually i got glimpses of them, reeled them in and went past which was a super feeling. And of course once i passed them i knew i was ahead of pace because i had started behind them.

This year my target is between pace groups but i'm starting ahead of them both. So next year i'll be able to advise on how that works out :pac:

I think the 4 hour group will be one of the busiest pace groups so getting caught behind them isn't ideal (especially if you're hoping for a few minutes under 4 as opposed to a just getting under 4 ). This would sway me towards advising you to stick at the back of Wave 2.

But maybe someone with experience of starting in a wave ahead will give you advise with more foundation.

Kellygirl wrote: »

I agree Eyrie - I think you’d do better at the back of wave 2. You are a fairly independent runner anyway and the 4 hour crowds are going to be massive. I had a job passing out the 4:30 guys last year. I got stuck behind them for a few mins and ended up having to jump onto a footpath and sprint.

I’m going to be at the back of wave 2 also. I don’t want the conjestion of pacers so not dropping back.

Perfect, thanks you two! That fits with what I was leaning towards myself. Part of me does like the idea of having the 4 hour pacers in sight to use as a guide, but I think that might be outweighed by the size of the crowd at that stage. Plus I hadn't even thought about it being hard to pass them.

Kellygirl I might spot you at the back of wave 2 so!

incentsitive

Question - using the findmymarathon with conservative start, negative split, etc - they are suggesting running the following for the first 6 miles (I put in 3hr 58 just to allow for the extra bit at the end).

1 09:15
2 09:10
3 09:34
4 09:11
5 09:16
6 09:05
7 09:24

Mile 7 is downhill from what I can see - is that just to give a breather after the Phoenix Park? Seems a bit counter intuitive otherwise?

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

What wave did you start off in last year S?

Wave 2. I had a wave 1 number but somebody :P told me I'd be getting in the way of good runners if I took my place there :pac: Last year the 4 hour pacers were in wave 1

effibear

incentsitive wrote: »

Question - using the findmymarathon with conservative start, negative split, etc - they are suggesting running the following for the first 6 miles (I put in 3hr 58 just to allow for the extra bit at the end).

1 09:15
2 09:10
3 09:34
4 09:11
5 09:16
6 09:05
7 09:24

Mile 7 is downhill from what I can see - is that just to give a breather after the Phoenix Park? Seems a bit counter intuitive otherwise?

I think there is a water station mile 7- maybe it’s taking this into account?

skyblue46

incentsitive wrote: »

Question - using the findmymarathon with conservative start, negative split, etc - they are suggesting running the following for the first 6 miles (I put in 3hr 58 just to allow for the extra bit at the end).

1 09:15
2 09:10
3 09:34
4 09:11
5 09:16
6 09:05
7 09:24

Mile 7 is downhill from what I can see - is that just to give a breather after the Phoenix Park? Seems a bit counter intuitive otherwise?

Mile 7 is most definitely uphill. You reach the highest point of the course at mile 7

incentsitive

skyblue46 wrote: »

Mile 7 is most definitely uphill. You reach the highest point of the course at mile 7

Actually yeah I forgot mile 1 was not the start.....this running has my mind wore out!!

Mr. Guappa

incentsitive wrote: »

Question - using the findmymarathon with conservative start, negative split, etc - they are suggesting running the following for the first 6 miles (I put in 3hr 58 just to allow for the extra bit at the end).

1 09:15
2 09:10
3 09:34
4 09:11
5 09:16
6 09:05
7 09:24

Mile 7 is downhill from what I can see - is that just to give a breather after the Phoenix Park? Seems a bit counter intuitive otherwise?

I'm planning on giving myself a chance at 3:59:59.
My first 7 miles are:
1 - 9:35
2 - 9:35
3 - 9:55
4 - 9:40
5 - 9:40
6 - 9:40
7 - 9:40

Sub 4 might just be too much for me, we'll see. So I'm planning an ultra conservative start, and if I'm feeling ok after 30k then I'll kick on and attack the last 7 or so miles.

I also rounded up slightly some of the splits to make it easier to remember.

Also, I've done a pace band with miles as follows:
0.X
1.X
2.X
3.X

I figure if I look at my watch and it says 18.6 miles, then I just need to find 18.X on the paceband, and not have to remember to look at 19.

RayCun

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Sub 4 might just be too much for me, we'll see. So I'm planning an ultra conservative start, and if I'm feeling ok after 30k then I'll kick on and attack the last 7 or so miles.

I think that's a lot to make up in the last 10k (which includes the Clonskeagh hills), so you should start making up time once you get past Castleknock. But ease off again on any hills

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Also, I've done a pace band with miles as follows:
0.X
1.X
2.X
3.X

I figure if I look at my watch and it says 18.6 miles, then I just need to find 18.X on the paceband, and not have to remember to look at 19.

So your paceband has
0.1
0.2
0.3
0.4... 260 entries?
Is that not hard to read?

Usually, the way to use a paceband is to check it whenever you pass a mile marker on the course. You'll hear a chorus of beeps coming up to each marker so you'll know when to look

OOnegative

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I'm planning on giving myself a chance at 3:59:59.
My first 7 miles are:
1 - 9:35
2 - 9:35
3 - 9:55
4 - 9:40
5 - 9:40
6 - 9:40
7 - 9:40

Sub 4 might just be too much for me, we'll see. So I'm planning an ultra conservative start, and if I'm feeling ok after 30k then I'll kick on and attack the last 7 or so miles.

I also rounded up slightly some of the splits to make it easier to remember.

Also, I've done a pace band with miles as follows:
0.X
1.X
2.X
3.X

I figure if I look at my watch and it says 18.6 miles, then I just need to find 18.X on the paceband, and not have to remember to look at 19.

That seems awfully complicated to me, if you are a novice marathon runner and want to run sub 4 go with that pace group. They will run even splits the whole way and when the going gets tough they will help and encourage you to keep going. It’s much harder to give in when someone is willing you to keep going. You don’t have to be attached to the hip to any of the 3 pacers, I get people don’t like running in large groups.

skyblue46

RayCun wrote: »

I think that's a lot to make up in the last 10k (which includes the Clonskeagh hills), so you should start making up time once you get past Castleknock. But ease off again on any hills




So your paceband has
0.1
0.2
0.3
0.4... 260 entries?
Is that not hard to read?

:pac: I think he means that he calls mile 1 mile 0.x. If he looks at his watch he will refer to the paceband entry that corresponds to that number. If you or I were at mile 14.5 on the course and wanted to check our pace for that mile it would be mile 15 we would check...he will check 14. I don't see the point of the X or turning conventional wisdom on its head. :pac:

RayCun

skyblue46 wrote: »

:pac: I think he means that he calls mile 1 mile 0.x. If he looks at his watch he will refer to the paceband entry that corresponds to that number. If you or I were at mile 14.5 on the course and wanted to check our pace for that mile it would be mile 15 we would check...he will check 14. I don't see the point of the X or turning conventional wisdom on its head. :pac:

oooohhh, I see

Like most people on this thread, I'm planning/hoping to run a negative split this year. But I don't have precise paces for each km worked out. I want to be a bit slower than 4.05 for the first 15 miles, a good bit slower when I'm running uphill or into the wind, and a bit faster than that after 15 miles, except on the uphill parts.

Mr. Guappa

OOnegative wrote: »

That seems awfully complicated to me, if you are a novice marathon runner and want to run sub 4 go with that pace group. They will run even splits the whole way and when the going gets tough they will help and encourage you to keep going. It’s much harder to give in when someone is willing to keep going. You don’t have to be attached to the hip to any of the 3 pacers, I get people don’t like running in large groups.

My planned pace picks up after the first 7 miles, to in and around 9-9:10 for the next 10-12 miles, then finishing in 8:40's or thereabouts if i have it in me. Its been drummed into me to start slow, so that's what I'll do.

Mr. Guappa

skyblue46 wrote: »

:pac: I think he means that he calls mile 1 mile 0.x. If he looks at his watch he will refer to the paceband entry that corresponds to that number. If you or I were at mile 14.5 on the course and wanted to check our pace for that mile it would be mile 15 we would check...he will check 14. I don't see the point of the X or turning conventional wisdom on its head. :pac:

Yeah, that's what I mean, I think

I have one done in the traditional 1, 2, 3, 4 format too. May just use that instead.

yido1882

I saw a post earlier in the week from Kellygirl around using the 'average pace' setting on your watch. 
I never knew this existed but have tried it out on a couple of runs this week and I think it's a far more workable option for me than using a pace band as I tend to be a bit erratic with my splits. 

My rough plan is to have this average pace at the end of each of these markers
10k = 05:48km av. pace
21k = 05:44km av. pace
32k = 05:42km av. pace
42k = 05:39km av.pace
 
Does that sound too simplistic?! 
Sorry for the km paces, I can't work in miles!

cullenswood

skyblue46 wrote: »

I had forgotten my own tip!! :pac: That is of course a better option!!!

Ha thanks. Do you know anyone who used this tip (or did you use it?), don't want to get shoe-d out of the area by a marshall while waiting for wave 2.

skyblue46

yido1882 wrote: »

I saw a post earlier in the week from Kellygirl around using the 'average pace' setting on your watch. 
I never knew this existed but have tried it out on a couple of runs this week and I think it's a far more workable option for me than using a pace band as I tend to be a bit erratic with my splits. 

My rough plan is to have this average pace at the end of each of these markers
10k = 05:48km av. pace
21k = 05:44km av. pace
32k = 05:42km av. pace
42k = 05:39km av.pace
 
Does that sound too simplistic?! 
Sorry for the km paces, I can't work in miles!

If you are fairly sure as to a realistic goal time and are good at regulating your pace then it's a perfectly good option. It helps if you know the course too. The mile by mile pace bands are more useful for those who don't know the course and where the various up hills and downhills are.

skyblue46

cullenswood wrote: »

Ha thanks. Do you know anyone who used this tip (or did you use it?), don't want to get shoe-d out of the area by a marshall while waiting for wave 2.

Yeah a guy in work has done it for years. He will be doing it again this year.

cullenswood

skyblue46 wrote: »

Yeah a guy in work has done it for years. He will be doing it again this year.

Nice one, now time to switch brain off and rest until Sunday. Thanks.

eyrie

Right, I'm in the table! No going back now... My goal really is anywhere between 3:55 and 4:00, and I'll be very happy anywhere within that. Figured I'd split the difference and go for the middle of that range and let weather, mood on the day, etc, decide the rest. I really don't want to have to be obsessing about pace while I'm running it so I prefer the idea of a target range to allow a bit of flexibility and more freedom to soak up the atmosphere!

Bib No.|Username|Target Time|Actual Time
|Mr. Guappa|03:59:59|
|coogy|03:45:00|
|Helenasca|04:40:00|
|roosterman71|03:50:00|
|kittyclaws|04:50:00|
|sann|03:40:00|
|Summerflower|04:29:59|
|Chippyrun|04:30:00|
|Themadhouse|04:29:59|
|Aoifemcc19|04:45:00|
|Chabsey|03:15:00|
|imknackered|03:28:00|
|tbukela|03:38:00|
|Naked Lepper|04:15:00|
|yido1882|03:59:00|
|cullenswood|03:29:59|
|ReeReeG|03:49:30|
|Bucketybuck|03:59:99|
|Pilot1087|04:40:00|
|Strawberry Swan|04:30:00|
|Applegirl26|04:40:00|
|aloooof|04:25:00|
|hedgehoggy|03:43:30|
|Misky|04:45:00|
|Alorra|03:40:00|
|Dealerz2.0|04:15:00|
|Buzwaldo |04:10:00|
|AdrianII |03:59:59|
|Comic Book Guy |03:26:00|
|The man in red and black |03:45:00|
|Rossi7 |03:54:59|
|eyrie |03:57:30|

brownbinman

Best of luck to everyone running DCM at weekend. Won't be making it myself but hope it goes well for ye

Clibee

Hi could you please add me on the list for 4.40 , thanks a Mill .