DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

orchidsrpretty

Did my first 10k today in 1hr 15m. Average pace was 12.05m/mile. It was a flat route (the first time I’ve ever ran without hills!) and I started to struggle around 7.5km and took about 3 20second walking breaks. Overall I’m happy. live done a few 5ks without stopping so to get to 7,5km was great. I could of kept going for a bit longer I feel too. Will go the same route on Monday and see how it goes. Looking forward to grtting some longer runs in, in preparation for the training schedule!

I’m probably going to ask lots of stupid questions as I’m a total novice but how long is ok to go without bringing a drink? I don’t like carrying thing on my runs and don’t like the thoughts of carrying water bottles around with me!

effibear

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

I literally searched the ground for money on my run yesterday I was so parched! Will remember it next time.. two small bottles is a good idea, always run out the few times I've carried one small one.. thanks!

May not apply to you but I’ve set up Apple Pay on my phone and it came in real handy when I got really dehydrated on a run and had no cash! Same as tapping your card.

ariana`

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Did my first 10k today in 1hr 15m. Average pace was 12.05m/mile. It was a flat route (the first time I’ve ever ran without hills!) and I started to struggle around 7.5km and took about 3 20second walking breaks. Overall I’m happy. live done a few 5ks without stopping so to get to 7,5km was great. I could of kept going for a bit longer I feel too. Will go the same route on Monday and see how it goes. Looking forward to grtting some longer runs in, in preparation for the training schedule!

I’m probably going to ask lots of stupid questions as I’m a total novice but how long is ok to go without bringing a drink? I don’t like carrying thing on my runs and don’t like the thoughts of carrying water bottles around with me!

Well done on the 10k. No question is stupid so don't worry. Unfortunately there's no straight answer to this question though. Individuals vary and it will depend on the weather too. I personally don't carry water on a run under 2hrs but last Wednesday i was parched after an hour - it was quite hot out and possibly i wasn't adequately hydrated during the day before or day of the run. If you don't fancy carrying water could you carry a few euro and then if you need it you could buy a bottle. Or an alternative is to stash a bottle somewhere on your route so you have the option of picking it - or if you run past your car leave it there?

effibear wrote: »

May not apply to you but I’ve set up Apple Pay on my phone and it came in real handy when I got really dehydrated on a run and had no cash! Same as tapping your card.

Great tip! My OH has been nagging me to set this up and i still haven't gotten around to it

bucketybuck

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

Also, struggling to carry heavy water bottles with me, what does everyone do to stay hydrated in this humidity??

I don't want to carry anything either, so for the longer runs I prefer to have a 2 euro coin in a pocket, then sometime after half way I'll quickly stop and just buy a small bottle of water in a shop. Living in the city its easy enough to plan a route that goes by a shop at some point and find I won't need much more than a small bottle anyway.

skyblue46

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't want to carry anything either, so for the longer runs I prefer to have a 2 euro coin in a pocket, then sometime after half way I'll quickly stop and just buy a small bottle of water in a shop. Living in the city its easy enough to plan a route that goes by a shop at some point and find I won't need much more than a small bottle anyway.

One thing I did a few times during DCM training last year was to plan a route of a few laps or one which returned to the car a few times. I'd leave the water in the car and stop for a minute as I passed it. Leaving a bottle stashed under a tree or bush along your route is another option.

chabsey

Only thinking about it now and I don't think I ever brought water with me on my LSRs, even the 30k + ones. Crazy. I wouldn't do that now.

Lazare

imknackered wrote: »

I have always struggled with injuries and i find that running any more than 3 times a week is never a good thing.
Im hoping to run DCM in 3:20-3:30 (most recent race was the Night Run in 40:21) and most of the plans i've found online require 5-6 days running a week.

I did find a plan called the FIRST 3-day training plan, which is ideal for me as there are only 3 running days but it seems quite a tough plan

https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/health/the-first-three-day-a-week-marathon-schedule

Just wondering if anyone on here has heard of it (or tried it) or come across any other 3 run plans

Heard about that plan and thought it didn't sound right, found this article about it confirming that.

It's 100% anaerobic. No aerobic training for an aerobic event?

It has shown results alright, but that's most likely in athletes that have already built a strong aerobic system.

Pretty much everyone here, myself included, should avoid.

aloooof

ariana` wrote: »

I think you should go for it tomorrow night. Sometimes plans have to be juggled to suit life. It's not excessively close to last night's run, i'm assuming today is a rest day then? Well done on slowing down the easy runs.

Went for it and got the 11 miles in at 10:50 pace, delighted with that! Turned out to be a lovely evening running, with part of the route around the back of the Park, which was lovely and quiet cos the roads were closed.

It's given me that bit of confidence as well that, regardless of my regular-life-schedule, I'll be able to fit the marathon training in. Really pleased with myself!

Kellygirl

aloooof wrote: »

Went for it and got the 11 miles in at 10:50 pace, delighted with that! Turned out to be a lovely evening running, with part of the route around the back of the Park, which was lovely and quiet cos the roads were closed.

It's given me that bit of confidence as well that, regardless of my regular-life-schedule, I'll be able to fit the marathon training in. Really pleased with myself!

Well done Aloooof. That’s brilliant. A nice confidence boost.

coogy

Would be interested to hear what other people's weekly running schedule is like in the build up to their marathon training schedule.

In the last month, I've been doing the following:

Tuesday - easy 6 mile run

Thursday - easy 8 mile run

Saturday - Park Run

Sunday - easy 10 mile run
* As I mentioned before, I cover about 150km per week by commuting to work by bike.


This weekend I'm hoping to fit in a 13 mile easy run but I'm a little unsure - give that I'll be commencing the training schedule in about a month's time - if my weekly mileage at the moment is acceptable or it should be increased.

Would love to hear the thoughts of others.


Thanks!

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Would be interested to hear what other people's weekly running schedule is like in the build up to their marathon training schedule.

In the last month, I've been doing the following:

Tuesday - easy 6 mile run

Thursday - easy 8 mile run

Saturday - Park Run

Sunday - easy 10 mile run
* As I mentioned before, I cover about 150km per week by commuting to work by bike.


This weekend I'm hoping to fit in a 13 mile easy run but I'm a little unsure - give that I'll be commencing the training schedule in about a month's time - if my weekly mileage at the moment is acceptable or it should be increased.

Would love to hear the thoughts of others.


Thanks!

Your mileage is perfectly fine and will give you a great base for the plans. You're in a great place!

Swashbuckler

Yeah agree with skyblue. That's a decent week by any standards. Well done.

Corbally

I might be getting ahead of myself here but I'm trying to work out my training schedule for the last few weeks of marathon training.
I have holidays booked for Tues 2nd of October until Tues 16th of October to Australia and New Zealad. This is week 4, 3 and 2 of the marathon plan.

I will be able to get all my runs done but I'm not sure what days to do which run. I'm assuming it's a bad idea to do the long run the day before a long flight?

During week 4 I am flying Tue night and all day Wed. Total travel time is 19h 30 mins
In week 3 I am flying Tue night and Wed morning. Travel time is 9h
In week 2 I am flying Mon night and Tue morning. Travel time is 29h 20 mins

Any thought on the following schedule? Am I making any mistakes?

Week 4 - 1/10/18
Mon 10m easy
Tue 5m easy - Fly Tues Night
Wed Rest - Flying all day
Thur 5m easy
Fri Rest
Sat 20m LSR
Sun Rest/Cross

Week 3
Mon 5m easy
Tue 8m easy - Fly Tues Night
Wed Rest - Landing in NZ at lunchtime
Thur 4m easy
Fri Rest
Sat 12m LSR
Sun Rest/Cross

Week 2
Mon Rest - Fly Monday night
Tue 4m easy - Land in Dublin at lunchtime
Wed Rest
Thur 6m easy
Fri 3m easy
Sat Rest
Sun 8m LSR

Any tips on the long flights? Compression socks?

Thanks

corcaigh07

You are all going to be horrified at this but my plan will be 12 weeks.

Just makes a lot of sense for me as I’ll be heading to Benicassim the week before the 12 week plan.

Will however try to build my base in the meantime and take the slow pace advice, particularly for LSRs.

Baby75

hanksy123 wrote: »

I might be getting ahead of myself here but I'm trying to work out my training schedule for the last few weeks of marathon training.
Any tips on the long flights? Compression socks?

Thanks

Looks like you have it well worked out, Compression socks will be a must-have item. Hydrate before and during your flight and not just water get some electrolytes into you and make sure you have them for running in the heat. bring whatever you use for fuel on your longs runs with you or see can you get it there. During the flight Walk around to stretch out your legs as much as you can check out any airports you have a stopover in. When I flew to Australia we stopped in Singapore and they had a swimming pool and showers.

When you land in Australia you will have jet lag so don't force your self to run the first-day if you are tired. Recover first eat, hydrate well and then get out early morning or early evening may be a better time for you, it will be very hot midday. it should be fun finding new places to run so many great parks, trails great way to see somewhere:)

Coffee Fulled Runner

This is anecdotal but a trick I find it works as your Sunday long run increases. If you find your calves tired or sore wear your compression socks all day after your run. I find it speeds up recovery. Also I'd recommend everyone do heel drops twice a week on both legs weather you've issues or not.

Strawberry Swan

I will try to post up my runs here regularly. Decided to not do a long run this week as I've been very tired this week. The 5 mile race last Sunday took a lot out of me. But got in a few other decent runs.

3k speed session

Strength and conditioning class

3.5 miles run commute to work

Hill reps: fairly easy

skyblue46

Strawberry Swan wrote: »

I will try to post up my runs here regularly. Decided to not do a long run this week as I've been very tired this week. The 5 mile race last Sunday took a lot out of me. But got in a few other decent runs.

3k speed session

Strength and conditioning class

3.5 miles run commute to work

Hill reps: fairly easy

Well done. I have to do this though....novices need to forget speed sessions. To focus fully on DCM make your runs easy until the plan starts. A 6k really easy run would be more benefit than speed work. I know I'm getting repetitive but I have to... it's the way to go.

AuldManKing

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

This is anecdotal but a trick I find it works as your Sunday long run increases. If you find your calves tired or sore wear your compression socks all day after your run. I find it speeds up recovery. Also I'd recommend everyone do heel drops twice a week on both legs weather you've issues or not.

Yes - after the long runs, Compression socks are great. They really help with recovery.
Regarding the heel drops - its a great S&C workout - as with doing planks or pressups a set of 3x10 calf raises on the stairs works wonders for keeping injuries away - numerous Youtube videos out there.

Also - invest in a foam roller and use it when you don't need to (i.e. when you aren't injured)

AuldManKing

Baby75 wrote: »

Looks like you have it well worked out, Compression socks will be a must-have item. Hydrate before and during your flight and not just water get some electrolytes into you and make sure you have them for running in the heat. bring whatever you use for fuel on your longs runs with you or see can you get it there. During the flight Walk around to stretch out your legs as much as you can check out any airports you have a stopover in. When I flew to Australia we stopped in Singapore and they had a swimming pool and showers.

When you land in Australia you will have jet lag so don't force your self to run the first-day if you are tired. Recover first eat, hydrate well and then get out early morning or early evening may be a better time for you, it will be very hot midday. it should be fun finding new places to run so many great parks, trails great way to see somewhere:)

Yes - recovery is better than running - don't force it.

AuldManKing

coogy wrote: »

Would be interested to hear what other people's weekly running schedule is like in the build up to their marathon training schedule.

In the last month, I've been doing the following:

Tuesday - easy 6 mile run

Thursday - easy 8 mile run

Saturday - Park Run

Sunday - easy 10 mile run
* As I mentioned before, I cover about 150km per week by commuting to work by bike.


This weekend I'm hoping to fit in a 13 mile easy run but I'm a little unsure - give that I'll be commencing the training schedule in about a month's time - if my weekly mileage at the moment is acceptable or it should be increased.

Would love to hear the thoughts of others.


Thanks!

That's super work - a friend of mine ran 2.57 at DCM off mostly cycling training. Don't underestimate the aerobic benefits you get from the bike.

As you do 8 on a Thursday - I'd increase the Sunday run slightly - add 1 mile every couple of weeks, you wont notice it, but it will pay off when the plan starts.

AuldManKing

skyblue46 wrote: »

Each to their own. Find a drink with a 3:1 carb: protein ratio and you have the perfect drink to consume within 30 minutes of exercise.

Protein helps with muscle repair. Protein bars with 20g protein cost about 2.50. A tin of mackerel costs 53c in lidl or Tesco. A couple of slices of turkey has more protein.

Don't be getting too caught up in this right now. The best thing for completing a marathon is sensible training. Nail that first and then look at other things.

Great advice.

2 slices of brown bread has ~10g of protein. Add in an egg and a glass of milk and you have 20g.

Having said that, I do find the odd protein bar fits well with my coffee after a session or long run.

AuldManKing

Testosterscone wrote: »

+1 on alot of what Safiri has said. Just to follow on from this on a point that is very often ignored/neglected/overlooked especially when it comes to speed work;

How fast you run is not actually as important as how you run it alot of the time.

By this I mean that many of us could bust a gut and do a really fast run or interval session but this doesn't necessarily translate to fitness improvements for racing always getting from A to B as quick as possible doesn't promote efficiency. Training is about improving fitness but also about becoming more efficient in your running. Energy conservation is usually has more of an impact on people than actual fitness. Majority of people here will be more that fit enough to do a marathon come October but many will fade or struggle because form is poor and they waste too much energy in the early stages.

Running at slower paces and within yourself in training allows you to practice good form and get your muscles working efficiently and reducing early fatigue onset and poor form.

As a therapist the busiest months of the year I have dealing with injuries tends to be September simply because far too many people run there hard runs too hard and fatigue very early on and form falters so much that the spend 8-10 miles of each long run with muscles that have fatigued and can't support good form. Unfortunately unlike cycling or swimming gravity takes over so even if form goes out the window then the foot is making contact with the ground whether it's with good or bad form. This is why the likes of runners knee, IT band issues and many other common injuries are associated with marathon runners so much.

This could be the difference between hitting the wall a 20 mile drop out and a glory leg sprint down Merrion Square come October.

Just to note that 2 of the most knowledgeable posters on running are posting on this forum.

Whatever is posted by Testosterscone or Safiri - bookmark it, remember it and take note of it.

Strawberry Swan

skyblue46 wrote: »

Well done. I have to do this though....novices need to forget speed sessions. To focus fully on DCM make your runs easy until the plan starts. A 6k really easy run would be more benefit than speed work. I know I'm getting repetitive but I have to... it's the way to go.

I appreciate where you're coming from but does it still stand if I'm not strictly a novice? Just to give you some background: I have been running roughly 7 years over 12 yr period. I started running in 2006, joined a club in 2007 and did dcm in 2010, which I really enjoyed. Speedwork has always been a main component of my training. I've only ever been injured once, just last year. Which is why I started doing strength and conditioning and I foam roll and stretch after every run. I love my speed sessions as they are a social outlet as much as anything else and I would hate the thought of giving them up.

coogy

AuldManKing wrote: »

That's super work - a friend of mine ran 2.57 at DCM off mostly cycling training. Don't underestimate the aerobic benefits you get from the bike.

As you do 8 on a Thursday - I'd increase the Sunday run slightly - add 1 mile every couple of weeks, you wont notice it, but it will pay off when the plan starts.

Thanks AuldManKing!
I missed the ParkRun yesterday but did a 5 mile run of my own during the afternoon as I couldn't have made it through the day without running!
Also did an 11 mile run tonight with an average of 9.05. That's a 1 mile increase on last week's long run. It was tough enough but I think a lot of that is to do with not having a running buddy. I really think I need company for the longer runs. Will have to see if I can seek out a running partner.
Does anyone else do the longer runs solo or do you have a running partner(s)?

sumsar

coogy wrote: »

AuldManKing wrote: »

That's super work - a friend of mine ran 2.57 at DCM off mostly cycling training. Don't underestimate the aerobic benefits you get from the bike.

As you do 8 on a Thursday - I'd increase the Sunday run slightly - add 1 mile every couple of weeks, you wont notice it, but it will pay off when the plan starts.

Thanks AuldManKing!
I missed the ParkRun yesterday but did a 5 mile run of my own during the afternoon as I couldn't have made it through the day without running!
Also did an 11 mile run tonight with an average of 9.05. That's a 1 mile increase on last week's long run. It was tough enough but I think a lot of that is to do with not having a running buddy. I really think I need company for the longer runs. Will have to see if I can seek out a running partner.
Does anyone else do the longer runs solo or do you have a running partner(s)?

My runs haven't gotten that long yet, but for now all my runs are solo.

Corbally

Thanks for replies RE the compression socks.

Did anyone do the Streets of Dublin 5k yesterday? The results are not released yet but I feel like I'm waiting for my Leaving Cert results! It feels a bit ridiculous to be so excited about it but I'll be happy if I did it quicker than 24 mins. I think I came in around 23:58 or 23:59. It was my first race and I loved it. I can see how it would get addictive.

gypsylee

A quick question. As I am a slow runner I am aiming to do DCM at a pace of 6.30-7.00 per KM (yes, I am that slow!). My current race pace is about 6.10 - 6.20 so I am running my shorter training runs at 7 - 7.20 at the moment. Should I stick with this pace for my LSR or should I run even slower?

Baby75

AuldManKing wrote: »

Just to note that 2 of the most knowledgeable posters on running are posting on this forum.

Whatever is posted by Testosterscone or Safiri - bookmark it, remember it and take note of it.

100% agree to this
I would add you to that list as well, you helped us all so much last year! esp me after my first 20 miler

ariana`

coogy wrote: »

Thanks AuldManKing!
I missed the ParkRun yesterday but did a 5 mile run of my own during the afternoon as I couldn't have made it through the day without running!
Also did an 11 mile run tonight with an average of 9.05. That's a 1 mile increase on last week's long run. It was tough enough but I think a lot of that is to do with not having a running buddy. I really think I need company for the longer runs. Will have to see if I can seek out a running partner.
Does anyone else do the longer runs solo or do you have a running partner(s)?

I did all my long runs on my own last year and i won't deny i struggled with boredom at times. I wore head phones (i just put in 1 ear as i wanted to hear the traffic etc) and that helped. Any chance you could arrange to run with other like minded people for even part of your long run?

hanksy123 wrote: »

Thanks for replies RE the compression socks.

Did anyone do the Streets of Dublin 5k yesterday? The results are not released yet but I feel like I'm waiting for my Leaving Cert results! It feels a bit ridiculous to be so excited about it but I'll be happy if I did it quicker than 24 mins. I think I came in around 23:58 or 23:59. It was my first race and I loved it. I can see how it would get addictive.

Baby has given you great advice for your travels!

I hope you were happy with the final result! It is very addictive for sure

gypsylee wrote: »

A quick question. As I am a slow runner I am aiming to do DCM at a pace of 6.30-7.00 per KM (yes, I am that slow!). My current race pace is about 6.10 - 6.20 so I am running my shorter training runs at 7 - 7.20 at the moment. Should I stick with this pace for my LSR or should I run even slower?

I think you should be doing your long and easy runs in the range 7:20-7:50 min/km. Have you could try the McMillan calculator? Plug in your recent 10k time and click the Training Paces link on the left.