DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

ariana`

brownbinman wrote: »

Could someone explain the likes of these:
4m with 5 x 100m strides
1m w/u, 3m pace, 1m c/d
5m with 5 x hill sprints

Might do Boards plan,

It's great that you're looking ahead at the plan. When the plans start we will give a little summary each week of the week ahead for each of the 2 plans that we follow so everything will be explained as we go along as well. I think it'd be great if you decide to follow the boards plan if you think you can work it into your life, comparing like to like with your counterparts here increases the accountability factor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Does anybody take those protein powders/shakes after a long run? I heard it was useful to take one within 20 minutes of a workout but are they any use at all?

I never bothered with these but i did develop a liking for chocolate milk last year training for DCM! It became my post long run guilty pleasure. I'd have that first thing, then stretch, shower and a proper meal including protein such as scrambled egg on toast or if was in a hurry i'd have toast with natural peanut butter, nom nom

Coffee Fulled Runner

Testosterscone wrote: »

+1 on alot of what Safiri has said. Just to follow on from this on a point that is very often ignored/neglected/overlooked especially when it comes to speed work;

How fast you run is not actually as important as how you run it alot of the time.

By this I mean that many of us could bust a gut and do a really fast run or interval session but this doesn't necessarily translate to fitness improvements for racing always getting from A to B as quick as possible doesn't promote efficiency. Training is about improving fitness but also about becoming more efficient in your running. Energy conservation is usually has more of an impact on people than actual fitness. Majority of people here will be more that fit enough to do a marathon come October but many will fade or struggle because form is poor and they waste too much energy in the early stages.

Running at slower paces and within yourself in training allows you to practice good form and get your muscles working efficiently and reducing early fatigue onset and poor form.

As a therapist the busiest months of the year I have dealing with injuries tends to be September simply because far too many people run there hard runs too hard and fatigue very early on and form falters so much that the spend 8-10 miles of each long run with muscles that have fatigued and can't support good form. Unfortunately unlike cycling or swimming gravity takes over so even if form goes out the window then the foot is making contact with the ground whether it's with good or bad form. This is why the likes of runners knee, IT band issues and many other common injuries are associated with marathon runners so much.

This could be the difference between hitting the wall a 20 mile drop out and a glory leg sprint down Merrion Square come October.

Read this, read it again and again. Learn it of by heart. Great advice.

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

A carton of chocolate milk is every bit as good protein powders and a lot cheaper

Haha we posted at the same time, wise minds

orchidsrpretty

I have worked out a route that has no hills(my usual routes have 3/4 biiiig ups and downs)to try and pace myself properly tomorrow. I plan to do 5miles so will see how it goes. In terms of keeping things slow is it a matter of clicking your first mile then going slower/faster until the right pace is reached? Sorry I know that sounds a bit simple , maybe there’s a app or something to help with pacing?

AdrianII

Christ I’m eating like a horse here. Constantly hungry just can’t keep full. Anyone got a handy nutrition guide or is one needed.

aloooof

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

maybe there’s a app or something to help with pacing?

My GPS watch (really basic entry level one, Garmin Forerunner 10) has a pace setting where you can set the pace you want and it beeps if you're going either faster than the pace or, slower than the pace. If you run with a phone, I'd be surprised if there wasn't an app for that.

ariana`

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

I have worked out a route that has no hills(my usual routes have 3/4 biiiig ups and downs)to try and pace myself properly tomorrow. I plan to do 5miles so will see how it goes. In terms of keeping things slow is it a matter of clicking your first mile then going slower/faster until the right pace is reached? Sorry I know that sounds a bit simple , maybe there’s a app or something to help with pacing?

Do you have a watch or use an app on your phone to record your runs (eg. Strava, RunKeeper, MapMyRun)? I would try to settle into the pace range from the start of the run rather than waiting for a mile and adjusting. Try to start at a pace barely faster than a walk and check the pace as you go (easier on a watch than a phone unfortunately). As alooooof said below if you have a running watch you could possibly set up an alert to help you stay within a target pace range.

aloooof wrote: »

My GPS watch (really basic entry level one, Garmin Forerunner 10) has a pace setting where you can set the pace you want and it beeps if you're going either faster than the pace or, slower than the pace. If you run with a phone, I'd be surprised if there wasn't an app for that.

skyblue46

ariana` wrote: »

Haha we posted at the same time, wise minds

No need for guilt. It has the perfect carb:protein ratio for a recovery drink

imknackered

I have always struggled with injuries and i find that running any more than 3 times a week is never a good thing.
Im hoping to run DCM in 3:20-3:30 (most recent race was the Night Run in 40:21) and most of the plans i've found online require 5-6 days running a week.

I did find a plan called the FIRST 3-day training plan, which is ideal for me as there are only 3 running days but it seems quite a tough plan

https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/health/the-first-three-day-a-week-marathon-schedule

Just wondering if anyone on here has heard of it (or tried it) or come across any other 3 run plans

Testosterscone

imknackered wrote: »

I have always struggled with injuries and i find that running any more than 3 times a week is never a good thing.
Im hoping to run DCM in 3:20-3:30 (most recent race was the Night Run in 40:21) and most of the plans i've found online require 5-6 days running a week.

I did find a plan called the FIRST 3-day training plan, which is ideal for me as there are only 3 running days but it seems quite a tough plan

https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/health/the-first-three-day-a-week-marathon-schedule

Just wondering if anyone on here has heard of it (or tried it) or come across any other 3 run plans

Just with regard to FIRST, it is a 3 run day plan but the people forget the fact that there are a minimum of 2 other cross days (cross being 45 min swim/cycle) it is designed from a Triathlon background and was proposed due to work load being too great for full time running on top of other disciplines.

It won't prepare you well for a marathon unless you see it as such as 3 days is simply not enough.

In terms of injuries rarely do I find that frequency of running to be the main cause of injuries in marathon build up, often this is down to lack of recovery (i.e running too fast each day, poor nutrition/hydration/sleep etc) I remember having an athlete who has similarly struggled with injuries training for a marathon (failed to make the start line numerous times) we scaled back the paces to appropriate levels (ease paces were nearly a min slower per mile), progressed the volume safely and consistency and IIRC he was training 6 days a week before long and smashed his first marathon

skyblue46

imknackered wrote: »

I have always struggled with injuries and i find that running any more than 3 times a week is never a good thing.
Im hoping to run DCM in 3:20-3:30 (most recent race was the Night Run in 40:21) and most of the plans i've found online require 5-6 days running a week.

I did find a plan called the FIRST 3-day training plan, which is ideal for me as there are only 3 running days but it seems quite a tough plan

https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/health/the-first-three-day-a-week-marathon-schedule

Just wondering if anyone on here has heard of it (or tried it) or come across any other 3 run plans

I notice today that there have been a few questions about other plans. This thread is primarily for novice runners following the plans introduced in the opening post. This allows people to share experiences with others sharing the same journey. The plans have been selected as the best ones to get novice runners around the 26.2 gruelling yet exciting miles. We as 2017 novices have experience of these plans and of preparation for the day itself, training that worked for the group etc. These experiences we are delighted to share. The advice of the knowledgeable runners which we received here on boards we are also delighted to pass on. Some of those posters have contributed great posts today. When the plans start up they will be everyone's priority.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

No need for guilt. It has the perfect carb:protein ratio for a recovery drink

Is that for real?
I was actually wondering how useful those protein shakes were.
How about protein bars? Would you say they were essential?

orchidsrpretty

I have a Fitbit and use Runkeeper on my phone. Can I do anything with either of those?

Kellygirl

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

I have a Fitbit and use Runkeeper on my phone. Can I do anything with either of those?

Depends on what Fitbit I think as you’d need to see the pace on the screen. Runkeeper should show you pace - means you’ll have to look at your phone screen a lot. I was running earlier trying to stick at a certain pace and using my watch and spent my time looking at my watch to make sure I was at that pace or thereabouts. Quick glances should do it. Takes practice!

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Is that for real?
I was actually wondering how useful those protein shakes were.
How about protein bars? Would you say they were essential?

Each to their own. Find a drink with a 3:1 carb: protein ratio and you have the perfect drink to consume within 30 minutes of exercise.

Protein helps with muscle repair. Protein bars with 20g protein cost about 2.50. A tin of mackerel costs 53c in lidl or Tesco. A couple of slices of turkey has more protein.

Don't be getting too caught up in this right now. The best thing for completing a marathon is sensible training. Nail that first and then look at other things.

imknackered

Testosterscone wrote: »

In terms of injuries rarely do I find that frequency of running to be the main cause of injuries in marathon build up, often this is down to lack of recovery (i.e running too fast each day, poor nutrition/hydration/sleep etc) I remember having an athlete who has similarly struggled with injuries training for a marathon (failed to make the start line numerous times) we scaled back the paces to appropriate levels (ease paces were nearly a min slower per mile), progressed the volume safely and consistency and IIRC he was training 6 days a week before long and smashed his first marathon

i have a catalog of joint problems from playing soccer that have plagued me since i was 11. The reason the 3 runs seems to work well is that it leaves plenty of recovery in between runs.
I spent all of last year building up my distances slowly at a pace that would be quite conservative compared to the speed i used to run
On the back of this base im giving the marathon another bash

skyblue46

imknackered wrote: »

i have a catalog of joint problems from playing soccer that have plagued me since i was 11. The reason the 3 runs seems to work well is that it leaves plenty of recovery in between runs.
I spent all of last year building up my distances slowly at a pace that would be quite conservative compared to the speed i used to run
On the back of this base im giving the marathon another bash

Trust Testosterscone on this one. Paces are the problem not regularity of running so long as you build it up gradually. My attempts to start running in 2015 and 2016 ended in injury through running too fast. There is less need for recovery if runs are very easy. They become recovery runs. Since I began following plans here last year I have never missed a run through injury and presently run 7 days a week.

coogy

8 mile run tonight. Pace of 8:56 and feeling much, much better for it!

Hobbyjogger

Just a quick question re energy gels and LSRs, do you take them on training runs around the times you would take them during the marathon, to get your body used to them at certain intervals? Or is it too soon to be doing that? (Doing 20k long runs at moment)

Also, struggling to carry heavy water bottles with me, what does everyone do to stay hydrated in this humidity??

Kellygirl

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

Just a quick question re energy gels and LSRs, do you take them on training runs around the times you would take them during the marathon, to get your body used to them at certain intervals? Or is it too soon to be doing that? (Doing 20k long runs at moment)

Also, struggling to carry heavy water bottles with me, what does everyone do to stay hydrated in this humidity??

You’ll possibly get a few different answers. I do use them on long runs but not as many as on race day. I tend to take one every hour on a very long run or maybe every 45 mins if I feel I need that. Up to half marathon distance I usually just carry a pack of haribo with me. I buy those multi packs of them.

With water, I used carry a back pack last year but this year I have a flip belt with the curved bottle that fits into it and I carry a small child’s size water bottle too that I can bin when I’m finished it. I always carry €5 in my pocket and the odd time I’d stop and buy more water if needs be.

Just editing to add that I work hard to hydrate well a couple of days before long runs and I add zero tablets to my water the day before to keep my electrolytes in check. I also always have a big thing of water with a zero tablet waiting for me in the car when I get back. Might be overkill but I’m prone to fainting from dehydration so I’m very careful.

Hobbyjogger

Kellygirl wrote: »

With water, I used carry a back pack last year but this year I have a flip belt with the curved bottle that fits into it and I carry a small child’s size water bottle too that I can bin when I’m finished it. I always carry €5 in my pocket and the odd time I’d stop and buy more water if needs be.

I literally searched the ground for money on my run yesterday I was so parched! Will remember it next time.. two small bottles is a good idea, always run out the few times I've carried one small one.. thanks!

cullenswood

Yeah, re the water I think it depends on the person and what you are used to. I would drink a good bit of water during the day in work, but never feel the need for water on my runs. Granted most of my long runs are first thing in the morning so its never too hot, but a small glass of water and out the door works for me, but other people I know would need a bottle of water on the run (those small kids bottles work well for them).

In relation to gels I haven't used them yet, but intend to sample one or two closer to October to make sure my stomach can handle on the day itself.

Kellygirl

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

I literally searched the ground for money on my run yesterday I was so parched! Will remember it next time.. two small bottles is a good idea, always run out the few times I've carried one small one.. thanks!

I always carry money on long runs - hurt my leg this time last year on my last long run so hopped on a bus

ariana`

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

Just a quick question re energy gels and LSRs, do you take them on training runs around the times you would take them during the marathon, to get your body used to them at certain intervals? Or is it too soon to be doing that? (Doing 20k long runs at moment)

Also, struggling to carry heavy water bottles with me, what does everyone do to stay hydrated in this humidity??

I don't use gels on long runs. For DCM last year i used them on 2 of the longest runs close to the end of the training for practice purposes more than anything. I did carry 2 small water bottles (200ml each i think) that came with a belt but otherwise i didn't find i needed fuel. So it's horses for courses really as K said already you will get different answers - nothing is straight forward!

Hedgehoggy

While people are asking about fuel and hydration... Are gels definitely the way to go on a long run or would bananas do?

Hedgehoggy

While people are asking about fuel and hydration... Are gels definitely the way to go on a long run or would bananas do?

Baby75

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

Just a quick question re energy gels and LSRs, do you take them on training runs around the times you would take them during the marathon, to get your body used to them at certain intervals? Or is it too soon to be doing that? (Doing 20k long runs at moment)

Also, struggling to carry heavy water bottles with me, what does everyone do to stay hydrated in this humidity??

I used a hydration pack last year when the runs started to get longer and the weather was warmer, for fuel I used tailwind and a few jellies more so just to have them I did not really need them.

I am using a belt and use the small water bottles normally just water or when I was going on longer runs over 21Km I would add in the tailwind

I have brought change for water, some get friends to leave a water bottle out or meet them for a water break

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

Trust Testosterscone on this one. Paces are the problem not regularity of running so long as you build it up gradually. My attempts to start running in 2015 and 2016 ended in injury through running too fast. There is less need for recovery if runs are very easy. They become recovery runs. Since I began following plans here last year I have never missed a run through injury and presently run 7 days a week.

My experience was similar when i started running if i went over 3 days i had niggles. But I read in a book (Faster Road Racing i think) that just because your body couldn't tolerate more than x miles per week last year doesn't mean it can't tolerate it this year, it's about building up to it. Training sensibly and consistently - sensible paces, small increases in mileage with appropriate recovery each week and step back weeks. In addition if there are specific weaknesses it might be worth seeing someone like a physiotherapist to get the right exercises to do to build up the area that is lacking.

brownbinman

Building on that, I had similar issues last year, but I think I was on the HH plan, body couldn't cope with it.

Should one be trying between now and w/c 25th of June to do one week tues/wed/thurs and following week tues/thurs for example to get body ready for it?

I also think I will try get tuesday runs in at lunchtime in work, so as I'd have a day and bit until next run on the Wednesday

skyblue46

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

While people are asking about fuel and hydration... Are gels definitely the way to go on a long run or would bananas do?

Bananas, jellies, fruits such as dates and apricots are really good. Many use gels for convenience in that they fit neatly into waist belts.