VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

Shefwedfan

Might be worth having a look at this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_platforms

VW have gone via the platform route so they can use it across all the groups. MEB is the same, reduce production costs and that will reduce cost to customer.

creedp

quokula wrote: »

Fair enough, I just find it surprising that an EV they've built from the ground up wouldn't be less draggy than an eGolf that just inherited its shape from a car that was not built with any of this in mind.

Given the pressure to reduce ICE emission why wouldn't VW pay just as much attention to improving the aerodynamics of its ICE cars as it would to its EV range?

Shefwedfan

creedp wrote: »

Given the pressure to reduce ICE emission why wouldn't VW pay just as much attention to improving the aerodynamics of its ICE cars as it would to its EV range?

Emissions are one part of it, the CO2 neutral via the whole manufacturing will have a larger affect on the environment than 0.03 cd or whatever it is called....


The eGolf on most studies has been one of the most economical electric cars in the market, by all accounts they say the ID.3 will improve on that

Potentially it won't be as good as the Ioniq...not sure it will make much difference....you standard driver going in to buy a car, if the Ioniq salesman is going on about 0.03 difference in cd then he should be fired on the spot

dmcg90

Bit confused about the 1st edition. If you put down the €1000, can you choose the longest range vehicle or is it limited to just the 420km WLTP rated version?

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The eGolf on most studies has been one of the most economical electric cars in the markett

Yes it was, it consistently came third after Ioniq and i3 (until Tesla Model 3 came along)

I've no doubt the ID.3 will also be an efficient EV

liamog

dmcg90 wrote: »

Bit confused about the 1st edition. If you put down the €1000, can you choose the longest range vehicle or is it limited to just the 420km WLTP rated version?

The deposit is just for the first edition which has a 58kWh battery and 125kW motor. The 77kWh battery with a 150kW motor will be available in the future.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

They have a large emissions fine to get rid off, so have a good reason too.

Its large enough alright...
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/automakers-risk-massive-fines-co2-target-miss-analysts-say

"VW Group is in danger of having to pay emissions fines despite having just announced it would invest 19 billion euros in electric vehicles from 2019 to 2023, Schweikl said. “They waited one or two years too long to develop their products,” he said. “Can they absorb a fine of, say, 1.X billion euros? Yes, they can, but the problem is not the money, it’s more their reputation if they miss a known target.”"

The more cars you sell the higher the fine so that puts VW right in the firing line for 2020

The fine is 95 euros per gram of CO2 over the limit, multiplied by the number of cars sold in 2020 and 2021, although 5 percent of the highest-emissions vehicles will not be counted in 2020. The fleet CO2 target is 95 grams per kilometer.

Some other interesting bits in there.... because of their adoption of hybrid, Toyota might escape fines so maybe they've been clever in the short term, with a BEV to come over the next few years... VW need their EV program big time.

Under a more conservative scenario, the only carmakers that will be under their targets are hybrid-heavy Toyota, Volvo and the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance.

One thing I'm not sure of though.... is the calculation of 95g/km done as a test exercise across their fleet, taking one of each model and averaging it?

And the fines only kick in if you go over your target. If you are under the target you can sell as many diesels as you like.... for instance, if they got their average under 95g/km could they then sell 99.999% diesel and get no fines?
i.e. Make compliance cars.

liamog

The WLTP rating is against each model code. So for instance, the 1.0 Petrol Golf Trendline 85HP (BQ12AA) has a rating of 130g/km, and the R-Line 115HP (BQ14CX) has a rating of 136g/km.
If they only sold 10 cars, 5 of each, their fleet emissions would be 133g/km. Leading to an overage of 38g/km. The fine is €3,610 per car, leading to a total of €36,100.

In 2020 each under 50g/km car counts twice as a super credit. So if we swap one of the Trendlines for an ID, the calculation is now (4*130+5*136+2*0)/11 which is 109g/km. The fine per car reduces to €2,280. With a total of €22,800. By selling one ID instead of a Golf, VW would reduce their fine by €13,300.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

The WLTP rating is against each model code. So for instance, the 1.0 Petrol Golf Trendline 85HP (BQ12AA) has a rating of 130g/km, and the R-Line 115HP (BQ14CX) has a rating of 136g/km.
If they only sold 10 cars, 5 of each, their fleet emissions would be 133g/km. Leading to an overage of 38g/km. The fine is €3,610 per car, leading to a total of €36,100.

In 2020 each under 50g/km car counts twice as a super credit. So if we swap one of the Trendlines for an ID, the calculation is now (4*130+5*136+2*0)/11 which is 109g/km. The fine per car reduces to €2,280. With a total of €22,800. By selling one ID instead of a Golf, VW would reduce their fine by €13,300.

Basically

VW have to sell about 100,000 ID's to not pay the fine?

Even 100,000 ID's might not be needed as VW have alot of updated plugins coming on like Passat, Tiguan, Golf etc that have less than 50g co2, target is 95g?

https://www.jato.com/2021-co2-targets-would-generate-e34-billion-euros-in-penalty-payments-within-europe/

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

The WLTP rating is against each model code. So for instance, the 1.0 Petrol Golf Trendline 85HP (BQ12AA) has a rating of 130g/km, and the R-Line 115HP (BQ14CX) has a rating of 136g/km.
If they only sold 10 cars, 5 of each, their fleet emissions would be 133g/km. Leading to an overage of 38g/km. The fine is €3,610 per car, leading to a total of €36,100.

In 2020 each under 50g/km car counts twice as a super credit. So if we swap one of the Trendlines for an ID, the calculation is now (4*130+5*136+2*0)/11 which is 109g/km. The fine per car reduces to €2,280. With a total of €22,800. By selling one ID instead of a Golf, VW would reduce their fine by €13,300.

Also aren't Fiat buying Tesla's to dodge it/pay less fines?

Loop holes?

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300393/tesla-fiat-chrysler-credits-european-union-emissions-fines

liamog

Something like that, the emissions are done by group, there are two ways to reduce the fine, reduce the emissions to lower the score and increase the fleet weight to increase the target.
A heavy Audi EV SUV has a triple impact.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

Something like that, the emissions are done by group, there are two ways to reduce the fine, reduce the emissions to lower the score and increase the fleet weight to increase the target.
A heavy Audi EV SUV has a triple impact.

Thanks

Regulation like that is the only way these auto giants are going to go electric

Makes sense now why Mercedes, Audi etc are rushing SUV EV's

September1

If counting starts to work in 2020 there is big incentive to delay introduction and sale of EVs until then...

Mike9832

September1 wrote: »

If counting starts to work in 2020 there is big incentive to delay introduction and sale of EVs until then...

Thinks its in now, with 20/21 targets more aggressive

VW " coming soon" has been a thing for years

Fitz2011

https://www.zap-map.com/vw-open-books-for-id-3-deposits/
I assume we will get the same spec as the uk ? ID 3 1st Plus trim. Or would VW Ireland have the power to decide a different spec?

Phibsboro

Fitz2011 wrote: »

https://www.zap-map.com/vw-open-books-for-id-3-deposits/
I assume we will get the same spec as the uk ? ID 3 1st Plus trim. Or would VW Ireland have the power to decide a different spec?

I'd love to get the panoramic roof so it would be a pity if we only had the plus.

Fitz2011

Phibsboro wrote: »

I'd love to get the panoramic roof so it would be a pity if we only had the plus.

Hopefully they bring in the top spec but it will more than likely be the same as the uk spec I’d say.

Silent Running

Fitz2011 wrote: »

Hopefully they bring in the top spec but it will more than likely be the same as the uk spec I’d say.

I agree that it would be easy for them to give one spec to Ireland and the UK. But there is a reason for the UK to get the lesser spec. They have a luxury car tax that applies to cars over 40k, before incentives. The thought is that the lower spec is to keep the price below this.

We have no such no such tax here, so it would be reasonable to for us to expect the higher spec.

Now, reasonable and Ireland in the same sentence aren't often heard, especially in motoring matters. :rolleyes:

drunkmonkey

and we've another budget to get though before delivery.... negative change to bik and I'm out...I'd like the bik guaranteed in the next budget for a few years.

I wouldn't get too hung up on efficiency, it will suit the majority of people I'm sure. There's more to life than driving a car that has the best efficiency particularly if it can charge at 100 Kw or more, this will make a big difference.

I'd be more concerned what it's like inside and what it's like to drive more than efficiency. If it can do the majority of my driving on EV alone then I'm happy.

Shefwedfan

drunkmonkey wrote: »

and we've another budget to get though before delivery.... negative change to bik and I'm out...I'd like the bik guaranteed in the next budget for a few years.

The uptake in company cars is tiny....It is extended for 3 years in last years budget.....

liamog

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://app.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/autobauer-vw-will-e-kleinwagen-in-osteuropa-bauen/24349376.html%3Fticket%3DST-1864749-t3M6y9gRpGOVuXtlROQn-ap1&xid=17259,15700021,15700186,15700190,15700253,15700256,15700259&usg=ALkJrhjU-E_MXE6WTvLd4SaUT5XE_lyzaA

More 'reports' out of Germany. Apparently the plan was to produce the smaller MEB model which would likely replace the Polo in the factory at Emden. Looks like they can't pull that off due to labor costs, so will likely do so in Slovakia instead.

What's interesting from the article is they mention they will now make the Tiguan sized crossover (ID Crozz) there. Apparently demand for the ID.3 is enough to fill the 330,000/year capacity at Zwickau.

Silent Running

Oh look... the VW leaf.

https://emobly.com/de/news/erste-sichtung-des-vw-id-3-in-freier-wildbahn/

drunkmonkey

The GTi one or what ever it is looks a lot better than the standard one in that picture with the black rims and tinted windows.

Silent Running

That bulge under the screen looks like it's stuck on with double sided tape. I hope that's part of the camo and not the finished product.

drunkmonkey

Yea probably part of the disguise, there not 20 inch rims either.

Shefwedfan

Couple of videos up of it driving, very hard to tell anything from them

It will all depend on the interior

Phibsboro

Dear Lord that bump is dreadful, praying it is just a stick on piece!

drunkmonkey

It's been in all the pictures it's there under the camouflage.

Dempsey

Never noticed the bump before, nearly a deal breaker!