VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

liamog

Mc-BigE wrote: »

why is it the Volkswagen put stupid camouflage on their nearly complete car , but Seat don't have a problem showing their car (post production i assume)

The ID.3 is a production intent version, the car will be revealed in September. The el-Born is a concept vehicle which will be modified somewhat before its own reveal.
The ID concept was revealed without camouflage in September 2016.

eagerv

What will the large wheels be like on Irish roads if we get them?
215/45/R20. (Launch pic copied from another forum)

Silent Running

More info on a German site.

It looks like VW are still at their old tricks of extra payments for everything, including paying the dealer to activate essential features. :rolleyes:

https://www.mobilegeeks.de/artikel/vw-e-herz-id3/

Mike9832

Silent Running wrote: »

More info on a German site.

It looks like VW are still at their old tricks of extra payments for everything, including paying the dealer to activate essential features. :rolleyes:

https://www.mobilegeeks.de/artikel/vw-e-herz-id3/

Thought they changed

80sDiesel

Mike9832 wrote: »

Silent Running wrote: »

More info on a German site.

It looks like VW are still at their old tricks of extra payments for everything, including paying the dealer to activate essential features. :rolleyes:

https://www.mobilegeeks.de/artikel/vw-e-herz-id3/

Thought they changed

Did you get your deposit back?

Mike9832

80sDiesel wrote: »

Did you get your deposit back?

Got confirmation email, but no money back in account yet

Edit

Money is back in account

liamog

How many people placed a deposit based on an under €40,000 car and then cancelled it because the launch car is likely to cost around €40,000?

Would have thought the sensible option was to either not throw in the hat, or hold till the announcement in September.

I'm expecting a decent spec I.D with between 300km and 420km range, with rear wheel drive and similar power to the I3 (125kW).
The mid-spec battery is adequate for my needs.

FaganJr

liamog wrote:

I'm expecting a decent spec I.D with between 300km and 420km range, with rear wheel drive and similar power to the I3 (125kW). The mid-spec battery is adequate for my needs.

Yeah? For how much though?

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

How many people placed a deposit based on an under €40,000 car and then cancelled it because the launch car is likely to cost around €40,000?

Would have thought the sensible option was to either not throw in the hat, or hold till the announcement in September.

I'm expecting a decent spec I.D with between 300km and 420km range, with rear wheel drive and similar power to the I3 (125kW).
The mid-spec battery is adequate for my needs.

I wanted to pay €30,000

€40,000 for an electric Golf is not good value to me

liamog

Mike9832 wrote: »

I wanted to pay €30,000

€40,000 for an electric Golf is not good value to me

You'll probably be able to order the under the cheaper base model not long after the first month deliveries are done.

My guess would be the Comfortline equivalent 45kWh will hit the €30,000 mark. The UK press is calling out the following features for the launch edition, so I'd guess take them off for the entry level. For the ID.3 1St, add 5k, for the bigger battery and another 5k for the features and I'd guess €40,000 is not too far from the mark.

Those British launch editions will come with a hefty range of standard kit, including satellite navigation, voice control, LED matrix headlights and a contrast-colour roof.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

You'll probably be able to order the under the cheaper base model not long after the first month deliveries are done.

My guess would be the Comfortline equivalent 45kWh will hit the €30,000 mark. The UK press is calling out the following features for the launch edition, so I'd guess take them off for the entry level. For the ID.3 1St, add 5k, for the bigger battery and another 5k for the features and I'd guess €40,000 is not too far from the mark.

At €30,000 it's not exactly a revelation either, especially with that crap Dacia spec you have listed

ID 45kWh will have no better motorway range than an Ioniq 38kWh ( probably worse even ) and it won't be much quicker either as supposedly it's only gonna get 110kW motor for the small battery

Only advantage I can see is the charge speed of 100kW and RWD ( not a whole lot of use with only 150bhp )

Ioniq 38kWh will have much better spec compared to base ID if your right, out a year earlier and considering Ioniq is only a half baked effort by Hyundai who don't want to sell EV's, the hype around VW ID seems unjustified

Are you happy to pay €40,000 for launch edition?

Why not buy a Tesla or something if you spending that much?

liamog

I don't really see the Model 3 coming in at near €40,000 and I have concerns about insurance costs.
Too many stories of Tesla owners being stuck for extended periods without parts. Heart want's one, but head says it's a bad idea.

I expect the Ioniq 38kWh to see a big bump in cost, Hyundai doesn't need to sell EVs in the same way that VW do, so they don't really need to price the car at a level that will sell.
The entry-level diesel Golf starts at €26,395, paying €3,600 more for the EV version is completely reasonable when you look at the running costs. You're probably looking at 4 years break even.

I've spent 27 months with the 88kW motor in the current Ioniq. I'm not buying a car for racing down the motorways, maybe a bit of Traffic Light Grand Prix is as fancy as I need.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

I don't really see the Model 3 coming in at near €40,000 and I have concerns about insurance costs.
Too many stories of Tesla owners being stuck for extended periods without parts. Heart want's one, but head says it's a bad idea.

I expect the Ioniq 38kWh to see a big bump in cost, Hyundai doesn't need to sell EVs in the same way that VW do, so they don't really need to price the car at a level that will sell.
The entry-level diesel Golf starts at €26,395, paying €3,600 more for the EV version is completely reasonable when you look at the running costs. You're probably looking at 4 years break even.

I've spent 27 months with the 88kW motor in the current Ioniq. I'm not buying a car for racing down the motorways, maybe a bit of Traffic Light Grand Prix is as fancy as I need.

Bad news for us all then

Cause VW for sure won't be under cutting Hyundai

liamog

Mike9832 wrote: »

Bad news for us all then

Cause VW for sure won't be under cutting Hyundai

They have a large emissions fine to get rid off, so have a good reason too. I'd go into detail again but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

They have a large emissions fine to get rid off, so have a good reason too. I'd go into detail again but it doesn't seem to sink in.

They'll sell anyway without undercutting

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

ID 45kWh will have no better motorway range than an Ioniq 38kWh ( probably worse even ) and it won't be much quicker either as supposedly it's only gonna get 110kW motor for the small battery

Only advantage I can see is the charge speed of 100kW and RWD ( not a whole lot of use with only 150bhp )

On the contrary, the tyres supplied on most electrics are Summer tyres with not so good wet performance and RWD makes a massive difference as I have come to know in the i3.

The 150 HP 40 Kwh Leaf wheel spin in the wet is horrible and probably worse again with low temps. Wheel spin was bad enough in the 24 Kwh in the wet.

Better wet performing tyres does make a difference but RWD is much better, you would appreciate it.

The extra 20 HP over the Ioniq would be worth it in my opinion especially with RWD.

Unless the Ioniq chassis is re-tuned it will be just as boring to drive. The ID probably will be a lot better to drive, notice I said probably.

McGiver

Mike9832 wrote:

ID 45kWh will have no better motorway range than an Ioniq 38kWh ( probably worse even )

How did you arrive at that? There's no evidence for this.

unkel

McGiver wrote: »

How did you arrive at that? There's no evidence for this.

Probably not a bad guess in fairness. We don't know what the Cd of ID is going to be, but hardly anything close to 0.24 (like Ioniq)

28kWh Ioniq has better motorway range than 36kWh eGolf (or 40kWh L40)

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless the Ioniq chassis is re-tuned it will be just as boring to drive. The ID probably will be a lot better to drive, notice I said probably.

No need to be so careful in your wording. I would put serious money on the ID being better to drive than Ioniq

McGiver

unkel wrote:

28kWh Ioniq has better motorway range than 36kWh eGolf (or 40kWh L40)

Assuming 120 kph GPS?

Round Cable

unkel wrote: »

Probably not a bad guess in fairness. We don't know what the Cd of ID is going to be, but hardly anything close to 0.24 (like Ioniq)

28kWh Ioniq has better motorway range than 36kWh eGolf (or 40kWh L40)

German reports stated that the Cd is 0.27. This plus a relatively small frontal area would suggest that it'll be quite efficient, even at higher speeds. I suppose time will tell.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

No need to be so careful in your wording. I would put serious money on the ID being better to drive than Ioniq

I'm sure it will haha , not running the Ioniq down at all, it offers a nice cushy ride but not geared towards fun.

Hopefully the ID will have different suspension options or a sport version.

unkel

Round Cable wrote: »

German reports stated that the Cd is 0.27

Same as the current eGolf. A much smaller car than Ioniq, yet with lower motorway range than Ioniq despite having 20-30% more battery capacity

Round Cable

unkel wrote: »

Same as the current eGolf. A much smaller car than Ioniq, yet with lower motorway range than Ioniq despite having 20-30% more battery capacity

It will not be as efficient as an Ioniq or Model 3 for sure. The tiny front may also be in it's favour in terms of drag, but it's taller than an eGolf so that may cancel out. The difference in battery capacities between the Ioniq and eGolf are not so great, with usable capacities of 28kWh vs 32kWh, respectively (for the "35.8kWh" version).

Overall, I don't know how much faith I have in manufacturer published Cd numbers, Nissan claimed the Gen 1 Leaf had a Cd of 0.28, while Car and Driver measured it in a wind tunnel at 0.32!

Old diesel

The problem with sports suspension tuning "for a fun drive" is that in 2019 this tends to give you a harder ride.

God be with the days when a P10 Nissan Primera or Pug 405 could garner praise for "being a drivers car" but still ride comfortably.

Big wheels probably have a bit to do with this.

What I'm saying really is that if it means I get a comfortable drive on bumpy roads - I'd have the "boring to drive" Ioniq over the more fun to drive but harsher option.

quokula

This car will surely be much more efficient than the e-Golf though? Wasn't that the whole point of developing a new platform rather than shoving an electric motor into a conventional car? Aside from dragginess (I'm very surprised if official figures show the same as the Golf) they will presumably have made strides in rolling resistance and friction throughout the drivetrain.

Old diesel

quokula wrote: »

This car will surely be much more efficient than the e-Golf though? Wasn't that the whole point of developing a new platform rather than shoving an electric motor into a conventional car? Aside from dragginess (I'm very surprised if official figures show the same as the Golf) they will presumably have made strides in rolling resistance and friction throughout the drivetrain.

Was it not the cost of building eGolf due to it been effectively the retrofit of EV tech into a car originally designed as an ICE car.

Retrofit isn't quite the right word - eGolfs were built as EVs from day one - but it more looks like a design for an ICE car was modified to be an EV adding cost.

Old diesel

quokula wrote: »

This car will surely be much more efficient than the e-Golf though? Wasn't that the whole point of developing a new platform rather than shoving an electric motor into a conventional car? Aside from dragginess (I'm very surprised if official figures show the same as the Golf) they will presumably have made strides in rolling resistance and friction throughout the drivetrain.

Was it not the cost of building eGolf due to it been effectively the retrofit of EV tech into a car originally designed as an ICE car.

Retrofit isn't quite the right word - eGolfs were built as EVs from day one - but it more looks like a design for an ICE car was modified to be an EV adding cost.

unkel

quokula wrote: »

This car will surely be much more efficient than the e-Golf though? Wasn't that the whole point of developing a new platform rather than shoving an electric motor into a conventional car?

The point was that the production of the car was going to be more efficient and that the shared platform is very volatile and can be used by a whole range of different size and class vehicles from across all the VAG brands (Skoda, VW, SEAT, Audi, etc.)

The car itself won't necessarily be any more efficient. Particularly not if the aerodynamics are not improved from the current eGolf. Don't get me wrong, the eGolf is an excellent and efficient EV, and its successor will likely be even better (given the extra torque, range and RWD alone)

quokula

unkel wrote: »

The point was that the production of the car was going to be more efficient and that the shared platform is very volatile and can be used by a whole range of different size and class vehicles from across all the VAG brands (Skoda, VW, SEAT, Audi, etc.)

The car itself won't necessarily be any more efficient. Particularly not if the aerodynamics are not improved from the current eGolf. Don't get me wrong, the eGolf is an excellent and efficient EV, and its successor will likely be even better (given the extra torque, range and RWD alone)

Fair enough, I just find it surprising that an EV they've built from the ground up wouldn't be less draggy than an eGolf that just inherited its shape from a car that was not built with any of this in mind.