Punchestown - Day 1

RivetingRoger

Could he have heard "go round" shouts from jockeys out the back avoiding Monalee?

STB.

RivetingRoger wrote: »

Could he have heard "go round" shouts from jockeys out the back avoiding Monalee?

Monalee well behind. Unless it was someone from the crowd who were very close. He goes from turning around to straightening to jinking very quickly. We'll see what comes up in the Stewards reports.

EDIT: Nothing came up in the stewards report. Townend left the course with No Comment which would lead you to believe he had a Roger Loughran moment.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/punchestown-reports/the-storyteller-a-fortunate-winner-in-amazing-champion-novice-chase/328772

EPAndlee

To me it looked like it was a conscious decision to go around the fence so he must have heard or seen something to suggest going around it

Joe_ Public

Pointless speculating. Only the man himself can tell us what was going through his head. The horse veering angle is highly improbable anyway, jock would have done a lot more to straighten it in that scenario.

kiers47

kiers47 wrote: »

Douvan seems a bonkers price tbh. He should be at minimum a 2/1 shot. I'm not sure how anyone could be backing him at 11/10 or whatever he is.
If Min didn't go to Aintree I'd be pretty keen on him but it was a tough race. Think its a no bet race. To many unknowns. Douvan seems to short. Min seems to big. Can't have Un Des Sceaux. If Douvan hit evens on betfair I think I might lay him if pushed for a bet.
A corker of a race to start the week can't wait for it.

Should have went with the gut and layed him. Could have done it pretty cheaply to as he hit 1.8 for a while before drifting back again. Ah well. Was a cracking race all the same.
Called un des Sceaux wrong but the rain came for him. What a gutsy horse he is.

TheMilkyPirate

He seen the two lads coming up his inside and obviously thought they were bypassing the fence. The horse didn't spook you can see townend rides the horse after he looks around he's clearly trying to bypass the fence. A stupid and costly mistake

Conas

RivetingRoger wrote: »

People slaughtering PT need to f**k off and follow a different sport. I don't know wat happened u don't know what happened but it waa a MISTAKE. Maybe Al Boum woulda won , maybe FO woulda won, maybe neither would. Regardless it was a mistake and a great jockey is made to look a fool. PT will come back and win grade ones again.it was a mistake. End of.

He will because he's with Willie Mullins. If he did this as a Gigginstown jockey, he'd now have to head across the Irish sea for work.

Conas

kiers47 wrote: »

Should have went with the gut and layed him. Could have done it pretty cheaply to as he hit 1.8 for a while before drifting back again. Ah well. Was a cracking race all the same.
Called un des Sceaux wrong but the rain came for him. What a gutsy horse he is.

The Douvan hype has come to an end now. He was made look a superstar beating Sizing John (an out and out 3 mile chaser) on the bridle, but up against the big boys he's been made look ordinary. I've said it before in the run up to Cheltenham last year that running in two pointless Grade 2's may stand against him, and then he went on to jump like a drain in 2017, and fell this year. He beat nothing as a Novice to warrant the hype to be fair.
Altior could completely dominate the top 2 Mile chases in the years ahead. Footpad may give him the most to think about. I've never seen a horse come up the Cheltenham hill with such power and speed as Altior though. Best horse in the game at the moment.

kiers47

Conas wrote: »

The Douvan hype has come to an end now. He was made look a superstar beating Sizing John (an out and out 3 mile chaser) on the bridle, but up against the big boys he's been made look ordinary. I've said it before in the run up to Cheltenham last year that running in two pointless Grade 2's may stand against him, and then he went on to jump like a drain in 2017, and fell this year. He beat nothing as a Novice to warrant the hype to be fair.
Altior could completely dominate the top 2 Mile chases in the years ahead. Footpad may give him the most to think about. I've never seen a horse come up the Cheltenham hill with such power and speed as Altior though. Best horse in the game at the moment.

Ah I wouldn't be going that far now. My reason for opposing(or considering laying him) was mainly price based and the prep he had. He's clearly the most talented horse in that field at his best. But racing isn't always easy as point and shoot. He's a class horse and hopefully he will come back to his best with a better prep.

I agree with you on Altior. Definitely the most talented horse in training and definitely my favorite horse in training.

EICVD

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

Mullins has like 3 runners in every race ffs pathetic

Go on enlighten me, what’s pathetic about it?

James Bond Junior

EICVD wrote: »

Go on enlighten me, what’s pathetic about it?

Throwing horses at a race to increase the statisitical likelihood that you'll have winners. Between himself and Elliot it is slowly killing the smaller trainers off and taking the fun out of it all. Elliot had 13 horses in the IGN for example.

kiers47

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Throwing horses at a race to increase the statisitical likelihood that you'll have winners. Between himself and Elliot it is slowly killing the smaller trainers off and taking the fun out of it all. Elliot had 13 horses in the IGN for example.

Trainers trying to win races.
Shocking stuff!!

James Bond Junior

kiers47 wrote: »

Trainers trying to win races.
Shocking stuff!!

Thats a bit facetious.

ANDREWMUFC

kiers47 wrote: »

Trainers trying to win races.
Shocking stuff!!

Clown

BoroMan32

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Pointless speculating. Only the man himself can tell us what was going through his head. The horse veering angle is highly improbable anyway, jock would have done a lot more to straighten it in that scenario.

Correct. Just a colossal **** up from Townend. Racing does itself no favours at times, and he (or the stewards) should have come out and said why he did what he did.

EICVD

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Throwing horses at a race to increase the statisitical likelihood that you'll have winners. Between himself and Elliot it is slowly killing the smaller trainers off and taking the fun out of it all. Elliot had 13 horses in the IGN for example.

So a trainer isn’t going to run his healthy & race fit horses for so many different owners at Ireland’s biggest festival just to give other trainers a chance? Ok
Then.....

EICVD

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

Clown

If anyone is a clown it’s you.

James Bond Junior

EICVD wrote: »

So a trainer isn’t going to run his healthy & race fit horses for so many different owners at Ireland’s biggest festival just to give other trainers a chance? Ok
Then.....

You're missing my point, the big fish are getting bigger and bigger while the smaller yards are being killed off bit by bit. Best of luck to Elliot and Mullins and fair play to them but I don't think its a good thing in the long run. Compare the yards that had winners over the past 10/15 years and see how many have gone to the wall.

kiers47

James Bond Junior wrote: »

You're missing my point, the big fish are getting bigger and bigger while the smaller yards are being killed off bit by bit. Best of luck to Elliot and Mullins and fair play to them but I don't think its a good thing in the long run. Compare the yards that had winners over the past 10/15 years and see how many have gone to the wall.

That's all very well but what are Gordon and Willie to do about it. They are trying to run a business.
You did say they killing off the smaller trainers but have not offered any opinions on what to do about it?

posturingpat

James Bond Junior wrote: »

You're missing my point, the big fish are getting bigger and bigger while the smaller yards are being killed off bit by bit. Best of luck to Elliot and Mullins and fair play to them but I don't think its a good thing in the long run. Compare the yards that had winners over the past 10/15 years and see how many have gone to the wall.

No trainer has a right to be successful which some people seem to think.
Hard work,talent,vision,timing,drive and opportunity are key things.
Elliott arrived on the scene with nothing and used Perth in particular to get winners early on as his horses were too bad to win here.
He had the vision to see that and made the most of it and campaigned his horses masterfully and bit by bit grew his reputation and owners.
Deserves all of the success he's getting and people should be praising him and not crying about him doing so well.

akelly02

STB. wrote: »

I'll tell you what happened.

Theres a cameraman standing outside the wings of the last fence on the track. The horse got spooked at the same time as Townend was checking to see if anyone was coming up the inside of him and the horse jinked accross the course as far as away as possible from the cameramans lens.

Absolute bollocks

James Bond Junior

kiers47 wrote: »

That's all very well but what are Gordon and Willie to do about it. They are trying to run a business.
You did say they killing off the smaller trainers but have not offered any opinions on what to do about it?

I don't have an answer, I was simply expressing my opinion which has now taken the thread way off topic. You don't have to agree with me but I am still entitled to my opinion.

James Bond Junior

posturingpat wrote: »

No trainer has a right to be successful which some people seem to think.
Hard work,talent,vision,timing,drive and opportunity are key things.
Elliott arrived on the scene with nothing and used Perth in particular to get winners early on as his horses were too bad to win here.
He had the vision to see that and made the most of it and campaigned his horses masterfully and bit by bit grew his reputation and owners.
Deserves all of the success he's getting and people should be praising him and not crying about him doing so well.

Who is crying about him doing well? See above post. Fair fuks to him, you have to admire himself and mullins especially to grow like they did, especially during a recession but I dont think the season becoming a 2 yard battle year in year out is very exciting.

posturingpat

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Who is crying about him doing well? See above post. Fair fuks to him, you have to admire himself and mullins especially to grow like they did, especially during a recession but I dont think the season becoming a 2 yard battle year in year out is very exciting.

Every forum I read seems to have people crying about it.
Regarding a 2 yard battle it's great. It was a cake walk for one yard for long enough.

Dwarf.Shortage

I think the narrative of Elliot catching Mullins is overdone, the movement of the bulk of the Gigginstown animals is by far the biggest factor in him catching up over the last 3-4 years. He has said several times winning the trainers championship is his biggest goal and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a bit more pro active than people think in the whole Mullins O'Leary thing.

Knowing Mullins had put his fees up and Michael O'Leary's persona anybody with a bit of cunning would plant a seed and offer O'Leary a barnstorming deal on fees, O'Leary asks Mullins to match it and he won't so O'Leary calls his bluff and pulls the horses. I have absolutely zero inside info etc. but it feels like a very very plausible scenario and more power too him if he did, it's a competitive game and sometimes you have to be a bit Machiavellian to succeed.

Motivator

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I think the narrative of Elliot catching Mullins is overdone, the movement of the bulk of the Gigginstown animals is by far the biggest factor in him catching up over the last 3-4 years. He has said several times winning the trainers championship is his biggest goal and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a bit more pro active than people think in the whole Mullins O'Leary thing.

Knowing Mullins had put his fees up and Michael O'Leary's persona anybody with a bit of cunning would plant a seed and offer O'Leary a barnstorming deal on fees, O'Leary asks Mullins to match it and he won't so O'Leary calls his bluff and pulls the horses. I have absolutely zero inside info etc. but it feels like a very very plausible scenario and more power too him if he did, it's a competitive game and sometimes you have to be a bit Machiavellian to succeed.

Mullins told his owners he was raising his fees. O’Leary threw his toys out of the pram and rang Rich Ricci (who was with Mullins at the time of the call) and asked him to make stand with him and tell Mullins they wouldn’t pay it. Ricci told O’Leary to more or less **** off there and then. There wasn’t much of a discussion between Willie and O’Leary. You either pay or move them out of the yard, within 24 hours all his horses were taken out of the yard. Nothing personal, just business.

Dwarf.Shortage

Motivator wrote: »

Mullins told his owners he was raising his fees. O’Leary threw his toys out of the pram and rang Rich Ricci (who was with Mullins at the time of the call) and asked him to make stand with him and tell Mullins they wouldn’t pay it. Ricci told O’Leary to more or less **** off there and then. There wasn’t much of a discussion between Willie and O’Leary. You either pay or move them out of the yard, within 24 hours all his horses were taken out of the yard. Nothing personal, just business.

I'm familiar with how it played out but I do think there's room for Elliot in the background of that story. I assume everyone in the game would have heard Mullins had upped his fee and whether Elliot saw an opportunity to try entice O'Leary or (maybe more likely) O'Leary rang him to see if he had capacity for 50+ animals if Mullins wouldn't back down.

I just think O'Leary is far too shrewd to ring Mullins looking for an exemption from the fee increase and when he was told where to go suddenly realise he needed to find a new home for his horses. I'd say he had an understanding with Elliot before he picked up the phone to ring Mullins, he's too clever to not have.

BumperD

Just watched reply. What a crazy finish. There was a cameraman at 2nd last so don’t think that caused fallers there nor final fence cameramen for al boom photo ( no pun intended photo )to run out at last. PT defo stopped riding for some reason only he knows, momentum lost, horse sees way around fence rather than over one when rider eases momentarily after near 3m and dives to right, bizarre finish. Only PT knows I’m sure he will explain tomorrow probably inconsolable it happens

Conas

kiers47 wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't be going that far now. My reason for opposing(or considering laying him) was mainly price based and the prep he had. He's clearly the most talented horse in that field at his best. But racing isn't always easy as point and shoot. He's a class horse and hopefully he will come back to his best with a better prep.

I agree with you on Altior. Definitely the most talented horse in training and definitely my favorite horse in training.

You say he's the most talented horse in the field, and he's a class horse, but yet on the big stage against top quality horses he's failed abysmally. What has he done that makes him class? beating Sizing John who was never a 2 mile chaser or hurdler.
Douvan was a good novice over hurdles and fences, but no way has the hype been justified. On his day he's a good horse, but no way can be deemed a 'class' horse. He never faced anything special as a novice.
Don't know how he can be considered the most talented in the field today. When he hasn't proved anything, except beating Sizing John, a Gold Cup horse who was running in the wrong division.

BumperD

https://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/punchestown/watch-hes-had-an-absolute-moment-drama-at-punchestown-as-paul-townend-handed-a-21day-ban-for-howler-36841323.html

Better angles here. PT definitely steered the horse around the last what he was at only he knows a screw up